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Necramechs are godawful to fight


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48 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Let us know. After rewatching my footage it's pretty easy to make out the audio cue, the visual identifiers and the 10 second duration, all that I need to know now is the trigger. I'm hesitant to just call it a cooldown, because there seems to be a vast difference between how often it's used when I fight them versus when other people fight them, got to be some trigger.

Please tell me if you find it. Although I agree - sometimes they won't stop launching their abilities, and other times they barely use them.

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8 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Please tell me if you find it. Although I agree - sometimes they won't stop launching their abilities, and other times they barely use them.

Well, I just took Wukong to test out someones comment regarding Defy one shotting it (which didn't happen) and the Mech spammed the shield with no apparent down-time, even after I had backed off and despawned the clone.

That absolutely shouldn't be happening, but it's the first time it's done that and it's the first time I've hugged it so closely, so I'm still leaning towards proximity to Mech being the trigger for the shield. A normal cast of it appears to be 10 seconds which is plenty as it is, regardless of proximity it shouldn't have the ability to cast it immediately after it runs out. Absolutely agree on that complaint.

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1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

Well, I just took Wukong to test out someones comment regarding Defy one shotting it (which didn't happen) and the Mech spammed the shield with no apparent down-time, even after I had backed off and despawned the clone.

That absolutely shouldn't be happening, but it's the first time it's done that and it's the first time I've hugged it so closely, so I'm still leaning towards proximity to Mech being the trigger for the shield. A normal cast of it appears to be 10 seconds which is plenty as it is, regardless of proximity it shouldn't have the ability to cast it immediately after it runs out. Absolutely agree on that complaint.

Ok.

Problem therin.

 

Once you break the gun arm (and I believe both of them) it'll beeline straight for you. So, if it's proximity based...

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1 minute ago, Loza03 said:

Ok.

Problem therin.

 

Once you break the gun arm (and I believe both of them) it'll beeline straight for you. So, if it's proximity based...

You keep running, hehe. Rewatching my footage it does look like the majority of the times it activated the shield, either myself or my dog were right on top of it. There was one instance in which it did it whilst I had distance on it, but it wore off after charging and didn't immediately recast.

Looks like it can't activate it whilst charging or hitting a wall, that much I'm pretty sure of.

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22 hours ago, Smilomaniac said:

People don't WANT a balanced fight no matter what, they want to be able to overcome everything you throw at them, if not with aim skill, then by building something for the purposes of beating that content sometimes even if it means beating it easily. None of your content is so precious that people want to experience it hundreds of times, so the more expediently we can deal with your grinds, the more tolerable it is.

Do you not find it incredibly satisfying when you do eventually beat them and get to the point where they crumble before you?

I personally really enjoy fair fights for this reason, or even one sided against me. Because I find once I get strong enough that they're not a problem it's so much more enjoyable, if all enemies felt like a corpus crew member and there was no challenge, no one would play it

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20 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Let us know.

So I played around for a while and it seems you were right with proximity causing the shield activation. I didn't have any companions with me, nor were there that many infested, so I am pretty confident that is the case.

I also learned that shooting the weak point on the back deactivates the shield. At first I didn't attack the necromech at all and the shield was active pretty much all the time. Then I started shooting at the weak point and the shield disappeared. It was pretty consistent, too. I would appreciate if someone could test it, I don't want to spread misinformation.

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5 minutes ago, Genitive said:

Then I started shooting at the weak point and the shield disappeared. It was pretty consistent, too. I would appreciate if someone could test it, I don't want to spread misinformation.

I'll get on that now. What were you using, both element and weapon-wise?

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@Genitive Confirmed, shooting the back drops their shield, just got to be careful about stray shots hitting them and reflecting. I suspect this is a big contributing factor as to why I never had much trouble with the shield. Unknowingly dropping it.

Edited by DeMonkey
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9 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

@Genitive Confirmed, shooting the back drops their shield, just got to be careful about stray shots hitting them and reflecting. I suspect this is a big contributing factor as to why I never had much trouble with the shield. Unknowingly dropping it.

giphy.gif

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1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

@Genitive Confirmed, shooting the back drops their shield, just got to be careful about stray shots hitting them and reflecting. I suspect this is a big contributing factor as to why I never had much trouble with the shield. Unknowingly dropping it.

I've had consistently inconsistent results with the IronSkin/reflection 'shield'.

Sometimes it's fine to just pop off a Rubico round into (any) vulnerable point, arms if they still have any or pick them back up, or the back if double-amputated, putting them back into vulnerable health.
Sometimes the shield seems to have much more beef to it and it takes multiple shots.

In both cases, on different occasions I've had the damage reflect both completely absent (mercifully) and fully in effect until vulnerable health is achieved - which is a nightmare in the latter case since I'm playing against my own Shield Gate as a mechanic to not just implode for no adequately explained reason. 

 

Having the game just say "Nuh uh, you actually shot yourself because #reasons" with no logic or visual congruence is already awful. I even tried using a projectile weapon and Ivara's Navigator to shoot around corners.. and somehow, magically I'm still 'reflected' onto.

Having it also freely proc status on yourself when you're shooting a status immune enemy is just salt in the wound.

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4 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

Sometimes the shield seems to have much more beef to it and it takes multiple shots.

Is it the arms that take multiple shots? I tried shooting them whilst the shield was up and yeah, wasn't entirely sure what was going on there. The back was consistent, first shot would drop it. If I got it right, I could hose the back with my Imperator without taking damage.

5 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

In both cases, on different occasions I've had the damage reflect both completely absent (mercifully) and fully in effect until vulnerable health is achieved

Possible explanation here could be shield gating? I've noticed that sometimes it doesn't feel like the reflection is doing any damage to me, and just chalked it up to the invulnerability period of shield gating. I do wonder about punch through and how that interacts. If you shoot it in it's weakpoint to drop it's shield and your bullet punches through, do you also get it reflected as well? Could explain some inconsistencies.

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21 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Is it the arms that take multiple shots? I tried shooting them whilst the shield was up and yeah, wasn't entirely sure what was going on there. The back was consistent, first shot would drop it. If I got it right, I could hose the back with my Imperator without taking damage.

Possible explanation here could be shield gating? I've noticed that sometimes it doesn't feel like the reflection is doing any damage to me, and just chalked it up to the invulnerability period of shield gating. I do wonder about punch through and how that interacts. If you shoot it in it's weakpoint to drop it's shield and your bullet punches through, do you also get it reflected as well? Could explain some inconsistencies.

I did a lot of mech fighting and I'm fairly sure it's been just arbitrary. Can't fully say with certainty that I recall seeing every permutation of "Which Weakspot || Weakspot Resilience || Reflect Active" but I'm fairly sure I've at least had all variants of pick any two, if that makes sense. 

 

When I say damage reflect is absent I do mean certifiably missing - all in solo mode by the way, so no client shenanigans to explain it. Since when it's present I had to be very aware of my shield gate in case it was a two-shot-to-drop situation as well (not taking the second shot before shields are recovering), it was very clear when my shots on target broke the Skin without reflecting whatsoever.

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Glad to know the grenades aren't what was absolutely obliterating me. Seriously, I was playing Oberon with the Quick Thinking/Hunter Adrenaline setup, Adaptation, 1k health, 300 shields, 740+ energy, 72 health per second and 360 bonus armor and still getting killed from full defense within a second or two.
As for their turn radius, I don't think even Zenurik was slowing them. I am able to pivot really close to them at still hit their weak spot on the back which is nice but I need to stop what I am doing to operator in and out during the grenade clusters (which are basically the only time I die against them) to both heal and avoid damage.
Finally, them grabbing their arms fells really bad to play against since fighting bosses that heal always feels terrible in games. Not only do necramechs deal really high damage, they pivot incredibly fast, you cancel abilities/prevent operator mode during the fight at certain times, and if there is more than one of them it doesn't matter if you shoot both arms off one necramech, the other will keep you busy trying not to die while the first heals back up by grabbing its arms.

I think there are a few changes in any combination of implementation that need to be made for this fight to be enjoyable as currently the T2 and T3 vaults (T1 feels mostly fine because its only the one necramech) are just soul-sucking right now.

  1. Reduce pivot speed or at least have it actually be affected by Zenurik's slow effect (haven't tested other types of slow effects but they seem immune to Zenurik's)
  2. Remove or drastically reduce the reflect damage as its either this or grenade clusters that obliterate even my tanking setup as described above when even level 5 liches and Steel Path hordes can't kill it that fast
  3. Add indicators for all the necramech abilities on our buff/debuff bar in he UI because right now there is nothing to indicate necramech affects other than moving slower (I thought that was a bug before reading this forum) and damage reflect
  4. Stop necramechs from grabbing their arms back or at least not make it a full heal up for them because again, healing bosses feel absolutely awful to fight
  5. I'm mostly fine with the ability canceling but being forced out of operator mode or prevented from entering it during the ability cancel effect feels terrible. Not only do I depend on it to stay alive during the grenade fan attacks but I also use it to restore energy/health and revive my kavat. Nullifier bubbles prevent use from toggling operator status but at least they don't force s out of it. If you have to keep this necramech ability at least stop us from being forced out of operator mode.
  6. And finally, they are status immune. Why, I don't know, but I really hope this changes since no enemies are supposed to be status immune any more (although some bosses still are and others ignore any status proc I through at them that isn't heat).
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I've been trying to melee them with my super tanky, stronk boy Chroma. The fights usually go something like this: first I melee both arms off without much difficulty, and then there's not much I can do about the weak point on the back until he decides to run off to grab an arm, and then I melee him a lot in the back. The problem is I keep randomly dying and I don't know why. I'm not entirely sure if it's the damage reflect on the shield or not, as sometimes I seem to take no damage at all while wailing on it, but sometimes I just suddenly die. Reading that he activates the shield based on proximity makes sense to me, because he ALWAYS has it on like this.

 

Guess I'll try shooting it with something. Anyone happen to know how much punch through you need to hit the back from the front? For now I guess I'll try the semi-auto fire on the Zenith

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3 hours ago, Roland_Snow said:

Glad to know the grenades aren't what was absolutely obliterating me. Seriously, I was playing Oberon with the Quick Thinking/Hunter Adrenaline setup, Adaptation, 1k health, 300 shields, 740+ energy, 72 health per second and 360 bonus armor and still getting killed from full defense within a second or two.

  • Remove or drastically reduce the reflect damage as its either this or grenade clusters that obliterate even my tanking setup as described above when even level 5 liches and Steel Path hordes can't kill it that fast

It's both. The grenades are murderous and their AOE betrays their dinky size, the reflect is generally speaking a Gate Or Die situation. Your shield-gating gets sapped by one, then before you can so much as roll away from the classic marbles on the floor prank and/or register that you need to not be pulling the trigger right now, you realise those marbles are death, and your trigger is also death. Because you're dead.

 

Seriously, if shield-gating wasn't in the game these would be pretty much a guaranteed fail for anyone who
A) doesn't use the cheesiest tactics available to avoid needing to personally attack the mech at all
B) is unfortunate enough to get vaults with crossfire of Mechs v. Infested and runs afoul of this lack of predictability (which can even still cause incidental player deaths in the middle-ground of cheesy approaches, much less fighting openly)
C) isn't in a group where they can be endlessly revived (solo and/or everyone dying together to the big ol' spam)

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I agree with most of the complaints here. Im fairly certain theyre bugged for hosts somehow as i ran multiple 3 vault clears with a friend and he constantly one shotted the mechs. Every time i try to solo kill with my guns they end up doing less than 1k damage. I brought a radiation tombfinger build that does 3800 damage with 109% crit chance and 4.8 crit damage, that adds up to just over 18k damage per shot with almost all of that being pure rad, since their wiki page says they have alloy armor i figured that would be a good bet. Nope, not even 1k per shot. Id like to know how 18k damage turns into 1k when youre shooting something that takes 75% INCREASED damage from rad. No big deal though, they still have health and if i can just overcome the 57% dmg reduction of their armor with even bigger damage numbers than this 18k maybe it can still work out... right?

 

Wrong. This catchmoon build does 57k (12k total damage times 4.8 crit multiplier) damage and again, almost solely elemental damage (chose blast because their health supposedly takes increased damage from it). Heres a video of me testing this against a mech and, big surprise, it still only takes 700ish dmg and solely impact damage, the only other damage type on this build aside from elemental damage. Why the #*!% do these have weaknesses if it doesnt matter because theyre just immune to almost everything anyway? This isnt fun or challenging, its just stupid and annoying. This could push players to find legitimate builds and methods for fighting them and getting around the status/elemental immunity like me and some of the others in this thread, but i feel like the vast majority of people (as evidenced by most of the replies here) would rather just find a fast and easy method when something stupid like "100% immunity to the things the enemy weakest to" is thrown at them. I only tried to find a legitimate method because i got bored of using octavia and essentially afk'ing for 15 mins per vault and was hoping to play a bit more actively with nekros for more potential mech pieces and mods. As it stands currently i doubt ill be doing any more vaults. Mechs and vaults arent worth it anymore imo. The moment parts were tradeable i bought the last thing i needed for my mech and i havent been back to deimos since.

 

All the issues and lack of communication and stupid choices with this update ontop of having it pushed back 3ish hours has really made me lose interest in WF again. Seriously, how could they have all that extra testing time and not discover that almost any mech will break your void dash almost 100% of the time you encounter them? How could they not realize that mechs you find around the landscape could/would be farmed for their drops because who wants to do a 15 minute mission for 1 underground mech spawn when you can use AW to check all 9 above ground spots in 3 minutes max? How did they not notice that a resource you need for the new blueprints is an almost impossible drop along with not having any info in game on how/where to get them? How did they not notice that there was almost nothing in game pointing to the fact that we had 3 vaults we could do? And nothing saying we could do all 3 in a row for better rewards?

Edited by lindenbrock
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Alright, I've discovered a strategy that works really well for me. It's not so different from strategies previous in this thread, but takes out the need to bait and dodge the charge by simply being high up.

1. Bring a tanky frame (Chroma) and a strong, accurate gun (rubico prime)

2. Get on top of something tall (I've managed to find a suitable spot in every vault so far)

3. Shoot off arms while tanking gunfire. Use one of the healing operator arcanes if needed (Magus Repair)

4. Watch as it tries to charge underneath you, turn, and unload into it's back

5. Profit!

So long as your perch is high up enough to avoid the cluster grenades, and you can survive the initial barrage of bullets before taking out the gun arm, there isn't much else they can do to you. Got through all 3 vaults solo with this. The third one was a bit tricky as they all had their shields active at the start (because of infested I think) so I couldn't take out their guns very quickly. Healing arcane was very handy.

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8 hours ago, Exaltas said:

The third one was a bit tricky as they all had their shields active at the start (because of infested I think)

One thing I've theorised about is whether the Necramechs can activate each others shields via proximity to one another. I've noticed much more usage in the later vaults when they're grouped up than when they're alone. 

Given that on release Ally Necramechs were able to effect our ability and Operator usage, I wouldn't be surprised it they were all effecting one another. If so, that absolutely needs fixing. Anyone else considered the same?

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There are plenty idiots don't know the issue due to they use overred advantage or simple they don't ever try to complete things by  themselves.
To be honest saying my only issue with this one is the damage reflect, the rest can be tolerate.
I mean the developers removed their self damage system but they add this crap to an enemy ? I see the best as don't try to proceeding further to avoid the stupidlity from people have money and retarded idea.( And  if you suggest us to co-operate, tell them all to learn english or less brainless acting )

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I solo the vault from tier 1 to tier 3 with Wukong. I always bring Radiation Ignis Wraith for Necramechs. Use Defy to gain armor then tank damage and blast away with Ignis or shoot from afar if you mod with Sinister Reach. If lucky, Defy would one shot when Necramech use its 3rd ability but almost all of the time I just kill it with Ignis. 

Edited by (NSW)Skidoh
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