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Armor 2.0


aldershot
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I just watched the latest recorded live stream, and it seems like 2.0 will have a dramatic effect on how builds will be made, and what weapons will be considered effective.
A lot of us, including myself have potatoed and forma'd up many many different weapons, based on what's currently defined as "the best" by the meta game. Many of us, including myself, purchased these potatoes, and formas with real world money.

Now, with the new system coming into play, either a new meta will come for weapons, or perhaps, personal choice really will be completely viable. Either way, what is considered the best now, probably wont be once the change comes.

Currently there is no way to remove potatoes to re-potato some thing else, same as formas. I understand why DE designed it to be this way, but now that we are facing such a significant change to the meta-game i was wondering if DE have any plans to give us a 1 time potato and forma reuse.

Because this takes real life money into account, i understand that this can be a touchy topic, but I'm sure many of you can see how this can be an area of concern.


******edit: after some thought, i think this original post might be a bad idea. Thank you to all that has added to this discussion.

 

after some thought i retract my original post.

I just came to the realization that in order for DE to give us back our upgrade mats, we would probably have to re-rank up all our gear to reforma every thing. Even with the new armor 2.0 i doubt that it'll make weapons like the acrid, flux, or orgris into "bad weapon" choices. they'll probably still remain top tier is isn't worth the trouble to re-rank all my stuff again 3-6 times over >.<.z
 

a few of you also brought up the fact that this game is in beta, and changes are to be expected. upgrading really is at our own discretion. Though it sounds harsh, it is a fair point.

so DE, keep going on your merry way and don't mind my post :)

 
Edited by aldershot
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I agree, this does seem like a fair concern. However, let's see what the changes do, rather then try an preempt disaster first.

I completely agree. Although, i do want to bring it up into the light so we as a community can discuss it, and also make DE aware of this concern. It's definitely some thing that can be forgotten in the rush to bring out the highly anticipated armor 2.0, but is definitely some thing i think that needs serious consideration.

Even if they decide not to give us a reuse of our upgrade materials, DE needs to understand that some of us are thinking about this topic.

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It would be beneficial and "fair" to us, the playerbase, but DE won't, because they don't have to. I actually wouldn't be surprised if Armor 2.0 is just a cheap way to get us to buy catalysts for all the weapons nobody was putting them in before.

 

That is exactly what it is, and it's a good thing.

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It would be beneficial and "fair" to us, the playerbase, but DE won't, because they don't have to. I actually wouldn't be surprised if Armor 2.0 is just a cheap way to get us to buy catalysts for all the weapons nobody was putting them in before.

 

That is a bit of a cynical take on it. Armor 2.0 (from what I understand of it) will actually help a wider spectrum of builds be usable, with the armor changes making all weapons effective in endgame.

 

On paper it looks awesome. How it is implemented is what will make the difference.

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I don't see how it's fair or not. People spent real money to use on items that are subject to change in a "Beta." When I bought the founder's pack, I have only spent money on warframe/weapon slots, color packs, syandana's and the pet wings/helm/tails and the such. I know that they are less likely to change, so I can feel comfortable buying them. Weapons come out all the time, I'm not going to buy a catalyst for a weapon I know I'm going to replace in a few days when catalysts come out in daily rewards and alerts often enough.

 

People should be more frugal with their money and not rely on DE making it "fair" for them.

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Personally, I don't think DE will give any sort of Catalyist "refund" but I do see where you're coming from. The new damage system is quite a big change and it could potentially put a few wrenches in some players gears.

As for whether or not I think it's "fair" is hard to say. I don't think DE is obligated to give us compensation in this situation, but it would be nice. It doesn't affect me much because I never put potatoes into a weapon unless I'm dead certain I enjoy it. Whether or not it's the "best weapon ever" because it's putting out the maximum damage possible is rarely a concern so everything I have that's potato'd will remain enjoyable when this new damage system is out.

Edited by Haldos
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You all were advised long LONG ago that a violent damage system rewriting was in the works. I formaed and potatoed a lot of weapons and frames based in the present metagame too, but this game needs this change, badly.

 

Before you all start nerdraging "My acrid is getting buttkicked by a viper" and "oh god, nova cant clean whole screen with 4 anymore" please, think in game´s health.

 

Im no white Knight, but sacrifices are necessary in this matter.

Edited by Eversor
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I don't see how it's fair or not. People spent real money to use on items that are subject to change in a "Beta." When I bought the founder's pack, I have only spent money on warframe/weapon slots, color packs, syandana's and the pet wings/helm/tails and the such. I know that they are less likely to change, so I can feel comfortable buying them. Weapons come out all the time, I'm not going to buy a catalyst for a weapon I know I'm going to replace in a few days when catalysts come out in daily rewards and alerts often enough.

 

People should be more frugal with their money and not rely on DE making it "fair" for them.

I can see where you are coming from, but let's remove real world money from the equation.

Even if potatoes and formas were all earned ingame, no money involved, they are still such a rare commodity that they are worth considering in this transition. I forma all my frames with 1-2 formas, every weapon in my load out is forma'd 4-6 times, and every thing i commonly use are all potatoed.

This is generally how much you need in order to max level any load out (warframe, main, 2ndary, melee), with max stat mods, and all mod slots used. This is the meta game, in other words, max potential.

In order to get even 1 load out, let alone multiple load outs, with the same quality (with out cash) will take MONTHS of game time.

I played WoW in it's infancy. It went through many many changes in the first 3 months of launch. during this time, skill trees and spicific skills went through the most changes. At the time, gold was very rare and valuable, and even a repair bill hurt like a mother, let alone a respec bill. One thing blizzard did to help with their constant skill changes, was that they gave every one a free respec. This is just an example of how RL money dosn't necessarily be required to give such respec / material reuse.

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It would be beneficial and "fair" to us, the playerbase, but DE won't, because they don't have to. I actually wouldn't be surprised if Armor 2.0 is just a cheap way to get us to buy catalysts for all the weapons nobody was putting them in before.

They gave everyone 50 free platinum because of the research costs after update 10. And they've also been giving platinum out in quite a few contests (although it helps them bring in new players, but still). I think you should reassess DE's feelings to the players.

Edited by Vitras
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You all were advised long LONG ago that a violent damage system rewriting was in the works. I formaed and potatoed a lot of weapons frames based in the present metagame too, but this game needs this change, badly.

Before you all start nerdraging "My acrid is getting buttkicked by a viper" and "oh god, nova cant clean whole screen with 4 anymore" please, think in game´s health.

Im no white Knight, but sacrifices are necessary in this matter.

I dont see any one giving outbursts or insulting any one. there is no nerd rage. i recommend you don't insinuate it, as it could provoke it.

Edited by aldershot
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Because this takes real life money into account, i understand that this can be a touchy topic, but I'm sure many of you can see how this can be an area of concern.

honestly... i really cant see this as a major concern.

this is a beta, and subject to fairly massive changes in venue.

to be fair, we also had quite a bit of warning that things would be changing, and lets face it, if things dont change, warframe will die.

 

 

I agree, this does seem like a fair concern. However, let's see what the changes do, rather then try an preempt disaster first.

indeed.

we should all wait for dmg/armor/element 2.0 to come out, play with it for a bit, then give complaints feedback.

 

 

on the bright side the frames that already have bad damage wont get any worse ( i guess)

looking at Volt and electricity 

im looking at things like rad dmg...

the combo dmg types are really something of interest.

cant wait to get my hands on it and try stuff out.

 

also:

just speculation at this point, but i bet we will get mods for our frames that let us slap elements on our powers... looking at the dmg model, it just has to be coming.

 

 

You all were advised long LONG ago that a violent damage system rewriting was in the works. I formaed and potatoed a lot of weapons frames based in the present metagame too, but this game needs this change, badly.

 

Before you all start nerdraging "My acrid is getting buttkicked by a viper" and "oh god, nova cant clean whole screen with 4 anymore" please, think in game´s health.

 

Im no white Knight, but sacrifices are necessary in this matter.

we need more people in the world with a mentality like this.

+1 good sir.

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As for whether or not I think it's "fair" is hard to say. I don't think DE is obligated to give us compensation in this situation, but it would be nice. It doesn't affect me much because I never put potatoes into a weapon unless I'm dead certain I enjoy it. Whether or not it's the "best weapon ever" because it's putting out the maximum damage possible is rarely a concern so everything I have that's potato'd will remain enjoyable when this new damage system is out.

i do have some concerns about our Forma, and if those polarities will end up getting in the way, or something. then again, i don't spend many Forma on any weapon as it is, so i still have a lot of open slots ;) i usually stop after i've cut all the expensive cards, and leave the rest of the slots incase i change my mind at some point.

but for those who have possibly even all 8 slots polarized, if this change causes a complete change in how they want their weapon to be, i wonder if we're expected to use X more Forma on a weapon to 'fix' it, or if something else might happen.

i can understand either side happening, because both have legitimate justifications. and both are completely fair.

 

it is not 'unfair' for Digital Extremes to so choose to not 'help out' Tenno by giving them free Forma. people talk sh*t about the Beta sign banner, but it does mean something. and if you read the ToS agreement that you didn't read when you clicked accept, you agreed that anything could change at any time and that you have no control over it.

 

and yes, i only put potatoes in items i actually enjoy using ;) and i don't keep ones that i didn't. i have 100% zero regrets towards potatoes. i don't use them unless the item is something that is actually fun for me to use. 

Edited by taiiat
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They gave everyone 50 free platinum because of the research costs after update 10. And they've also been giving platinum out in quite a few contests (although it helps them bring in new players, but still). I think you should reassess DE's feelings to the players.

 

You're right, retiring weapons, hiding drop tables, implementing referrals and more and more micro-transactions a la iphone apps...

I've reassessed it and I've been wearing rose colored glasses.

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You're right, retiring weapons, hiding drop tables, implementing referrals and more and more micro-transactions a la iphone apps...

I've reassessed it and I've been wearing rose colored glasses.

To be fair, you can't crucify a free to play game of warframe's quality for mico-transaction. It's like complaining you have to pay money to get your food at the grocery story.

That is not the point of the OP, and I've made a concious decision at some point of my warframe career that DE has done a great job, and wish to support it with purchases. The most useful purchases are upgrade mats (potatos and formas). I don't buy weapons or warframes since they can be earned with relative ease in game, and is also why i never consider a weapon degrade in the meta game much of a concern. how ever, upgrade mats is different because they are very difficult to earn ingame, some are only awarded as alerts, and they are a constant in usefulness and value. so this is why i bring this topic up.

Edited by aldershot
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after some thought i retract my original post.

I just came to the realization that in order for DE to give us back our upgrade mats, we would probably have to re-rank up all our gear to reforma every thing. Even with the new armor 2.0 i doubt that it'll make weapons like the acrid, flux, or orgris into "bad weapon" choices. they'll probably still remain top tier is isn't worth the trouble to re-rank all my stuff again 3-6 times over >.<.z
 

a few of you also brought up the fact that this game is in beta, and changes are to be expected. upgrading really is at our own discretion. Though it sounds harsh, it is a fair point.

so DE, keep going on your merry way and don't mind my post :)

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but DE won't, because they don't have to.

 

we are talking about the company that gave in-game founders shoulder badges for free (unlike PGI that made their founders have to spend atleast $20 on a phoenix pack to get a hanging cockpit founders medal... not to mention how much they're already screwing over the founders mechs already...), and is giving out a free headband and t-shirt (if you bought high enough for the t-shirt).

Edited by KhanCipher
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There several facts that we need to consider. Currently they said that all weapons will be remade damage based so our top tier weapons might still be top tier but for certain situations only. So for example all around Flux Rifle which got advantage against light infested might become worse against corpus and greenir but even better against infested. So i think we should wait and rage only if the system will make our current top tier weapons a total crap.

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