Silencer Mods Are Overpowered, Eliminate Need For Silent Weapons

[VoidMainline]

Hush, Silent Battery and Suppress (let's call them "silencer mods") all give 100% suppression at 5 drain.  Early in the game I was using bows and shuriken for silent attacks, but once I had both Hush and Suppress the silent weapons become almost completely useless because I can get silent full-firepower weapons for very little cost.  A couple of solutions might be to raise the drain of silencer mods, or have them reduce the damage output of the attached weapon.  But the best way to make shuriken and bows much more useful in the game would be to simply reduce the effectiveness of silencer mods down to 90% (say, 30/50/70/90).  That way, they would still be useful in situations where silence is a desirable option but not absolutely necessary.  But when players want guaranteed silence (like in spy missions), they would still need to turn to 100% silent weapons such as shuriken and bows to get it. 

 

The devs put a lot of work into creating silent weapons with unique and challenging, but fun, characteristics. Wiping out most of silent weapons' usefulness with some inexpensive mods seems to be essentially throwing away that work.  If silencer mods are just made a little bit imperfect they would be still a useful part of the game, but they would not have their current overpowering advantage over silent weapons,  When I can make my Dual Cestras (which would rattle the windows if I ran the game over my speakers) totally silent with minimal drain cost, I never have any reason to use shuriken again except as leveling fodder.  Please devs, MAGA (Make Attica Great Again)!

[kgabor]

Bows are still pretty good primaries, i wouldn't say Hush makes them obsolete, there's still always a reason to bring Rakta Cernos over most other primaries.

Shurikens are a different case, they are simply bad, except a few like Sancti Castanas, the weapon type as a whole needs a buff to give it a niche and the weapons need to be buffed individually.

I simply can't justify bringing Despair or Hikou Prime anywhere, at least they could have gimmicks opening enemies to finishers on successive hits or deal self damage for self buffing.

[Aryustailm]

Other weapons being made silent isn't the reason people aren't using those worthless shuriken. The vast majority of weapons are very loud, even those that should not be. You shouldn't have to be playing banshee just to make your wrist-mounted laser not alarm everyone in more than twice it's maximum range before it even deals damage.

[ShogunGunshow]

While there is an argument to be made for such things trivializing weapon choice when it comes to stealth, stealth isn't actually a thing that anyone does anymore - outside of Equinox Adaro - which you could hardly call stealth gameplay - and cheesing spy missions with Ivara.

[TangyBlueBerry]

lol no

 

Silent weapons mean nothing. This game isn't focused on being silent, nor does it have any impact in real gameplay. Not too mention silence mods are terrible and are a nerf already as they cost either a damage mod slot. Unless you put an exilus on every weapon, their just bad.

[Tyreaus]

Indeed, make silenced weapons - bows and throws - better.

But don't rely on an extremely narrow niche to do that. In the modern game, having a silenced weapon is not a major improvement. At best, I think it's enough to justify projectile travel times (comparing bows to snipers, for example).

[Mr.Holyroller]

There's almost no reason to ever use silenced mods unless you're trying to RP for stealth, trying to stay invis with ivara, or if you're trying to level up weapons via stealth multiplier on like adaro or something. 
Even then, you could just use loki with his augment.

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

1. Silencer mods cost a mod slot, which can be costly for people who have min max build 

2. Silencer mods main point is so that we dont alert other enemies while we kill them, but this is harder than it looks bcos it all depends on 1 shot, if in 1 shot you manage to kill an enemy then chances others not alerted, but if you didn't manage to kill in 1 shot, the enemy will be alerted, the others in the vicinity will also be alerted and once an enemy retaliate or sound the alarm, then the silencer mods would lose its purpose in that run. 

[(PSN)thegarada]

Wait, you put silencer on weapons? You think this Rainbow Six? Okay, more seriously, you only do that on For Ivara and only on few weapons. Warframe mission design is not for stealth game play anyway. Outside of spy missions and some annoying riven missions, you have no reason to be stealthy. It would actually hurt cuz you want enemies to come to you ASAP.

[VoidMainline]

Bows and shuriken are generally underpowered, and having them fill a niche slot by making hush/suppress not completely silent gives them a purpose in the game.  I love playing stealth with Ivara, and silent weapons are useful in other missions because you can kill enemies without raising an alarm.  A niche purpose is till better than no purpose.  I hear what y'all are saying , but overall I think it makes perfect sense to give only bows and shuriken guaranteed silence to diversify the capabilities of all the weapons in the game.  

[Leqesai]

What the hell is this... People are complaining about the silence mods now? Jeez... 

Are you serious? Did I miss the joke? 

3 hours ago, VoidMainline said:

Bows and shuriken are generally underpowered, and having them fill a niche slot by making hush/suppress not completely silent gives them a purpose in the game.  I love playing stealth with Ivara, and silent weapons are useful in other missions because you can kill enemies without raising an alarm.  A niche purpose is till better than no purpose.  I hear what y'all are saying , but overall I think it makes perfect sense to give only bows and shuriken guaranteed silence to diversify the capabilities of all the weapons in the game.  

You can't be for real, right?

[(XBOX)Rez090]

On 2020-12-16 at 8:14 AM, VoidMainline said:

Bows and shuriken are generally underpowered,

Really?  (laughing with my 112% crit chance Paris Prime)

On 2020-09-02 at 12:11 AM, (PSN)thegarada said:

It would actually hurt cuz you want enemies to come to you ASAP.

Why would I want enemies to come running at me in an exterminate? Or sabotage? Or capture? Or spy?

[NinjaZeku]

36 minutes ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

Really?  (laughing with my 112% crit chance Paris Prime)

Ya rly.

Using other weapons, you can mow down a large group of enemies in the time it takes your Paris to fire 1-2 shots
(where you also have to deal with projectile travel speed, good luck with that if you're a Client facing alerted enemies running about).

Hek, even when it comes to big-single-hit single-target weapons, there's Snipers.
Which usually are hitscan, and benefit from a combo counter.

And please tell me a truly good, competitive Thrown weapon. I would actually love one of those.
Alas, I'll just stick to silenced AoE weapons / Crit beast Kitguns and stuff in the mean time.

... mind, I'm certainly not saying Hush & co need a nerf or anything, they're fine,
and a welcome option to expand your weapon selection for when you're doing Solo stealth funzies.

But I agree that the good ol' regular Bows / Thrown weapons aren't quite up there anymore,
they need a bit of a push, maybe not just damage but something more interesting, dunno what that'd be tho lol.

[TheMostFrench]

23 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

But I agree that the good ol' regular Bows / Thrown weapons aren't quite up there anymore,

they need a bit of a push, maybe not just damage but something more interesting, dunno what that'd be tho lol.

Fully drawn bows could be able to pin enemies down, then they become single target crowd control. This might mean that bows with punch through DON'T pin enemies, except for the last target they didn't..you know.. punch through.

On 2020-08-30 at 2:11 AM, VoidMainline said:

Wiping out most of silent weapons' usefulness with some inexpensive mods seems to be essentially throwing away that work.

There are still rivens and sorties that require the use of bows, and sometimes using a bow is just a fun change of pace. You also have to consider that the devs are the ones who made the silencer mods, it's not like they didn't think about how this might effect silent weapons, they have data on the weapons and builds people use. They are ok with the design decision.

On 2020-08-30 at 2:11 AM, VoidMainline said:

But when players want guaranteed silence (like in spy missions), they would still need to turn to 100% silent weapons such as shuriken and bows to get it. 

I just do spy as Loki. Even if my guns are loud the enemies don't set off the alarm unless I shoot them specifically.

[NinjaZeku]

On 2020-08-29 at 8:11 PM, VoidMainline said:

100% silent weapons such as shuriken and bows

BTW, just to point something out (which may or may not need to get fixed), innately silent weapons are in fact not completely silent,
when you hit the floor / walls / etc, the impact can be noticed by enemies, unlike with weapons you've put silencing Mods on.

Yes this is very silly :D

[(XBOX)HollowCube987]

I can safely say that most Shurikens are underpowered. Pox, Sanci Castanas, and MAYBE Fusilai and Spira Prime can be considered decent. But other than that, theres no practical reason to use throwing knives instead of guns

[Lutesque]

On 2020-08-29 at 8:11 PM, VoidMainline said:

Hush, Silent Battery and Suppress (let's call them "silencer mods") all give 100% suppression at 5 drain.  Early in the game I was using bows and shuriken for silent attacks, but once I had both Hush and Suppress the silent weapons become almost completely useless because I can get silent full-firepower weapons for very little cost.  A couple of solutions might be to raise the drain of silencer mods, or have them reduce the damage output of the attached weapon.  But the best way to make shuriken and bows much more useful in the game would be to simply reduce the effectiveness of silencer mods down to 90% (say, 30/50/70/90).  That way, they would still be useful in situations where silence is a desirable option but not absolutely necessary.  But when players want guaranteed silence (like in spy missions), they would still need to turn to 100% silent weapons such as shuriken and bows to get it. 

 

The devs put a lot of work into creating silent weapons with unique and challenging, but fun, characteristics. Wiping out most of silent weapons' usefulness with some inexpensive mods seems to be essentially throwing away that work.  If silencer mods are just made a little bit imperfect they would be still a useful part of the game, but they would not have their current overpowering advantage over silent weapons,  When I can make my Dual Cestras (which would rattle the windows if I ran the game over my speakers) totally silent with minimal drain cost, I never have any reason to use shuriken again except as leveling fodder.  Please devs, MAGA (Make Attica Great Again)!

Okay... Let me keep this simple...

You aren't using Bows and Shurikens because Silencer mods are over powered.... You are not using Bows and Shurikens because They Suck....

So instead of ruining everyone else's Silent builds I suggest you just ask for Bows and Shuriken's to be buffed

On 2020-08-29 at 8:30 PM, kgabor said:

Shurikens are a different case, they are simply bad, except a few like Sancti Castanas, the weapon type as a whole needs a buff to give it a niche and the weapons need to be buffed individually.

A Riven can Salvage Gara's Throwing Knives (forgot their names)... But the roll you need is so Specific that's it's Basically a Pipe Dream...

On 2020-09-01 at 4:03 PM, TangyBlueBerry said:

lol no

 

Silent weapons mean nothing. This game isn't focused on being silent, nor does it have any impact in real gameplay. Not too mention silence mods are terrible and are a nerf already as they cost either a damage mod slot. Unless you put an exilus on every weapon, their just bad.

Pretty much.... I use the Conclave Holster Speed Mods on those Slots instead.

On 2020-12-16 at 1:19 PM, Leqesai said:

What the hell is this... People are complaining about the silence mods now? Jeez... 

I know right...  😐 !!! At this point I think they're just messing with us 🤔...

On 2020-12-16 at 1:49 PM, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

Really?  (laughing with my 112% crit chance Paris Prime)

Mine had a Riven So I had 160% Crit Chance... It was merely Okay.... Didn't come close to the Standard Lanka Build....

On 2020-12-16 at 2:47 PM, NinjaZeku said:

Hek, even when it comes to big-single-hit single-target weapons, there's Snipers.
Which usually are hitscan, and benefit from a combo counter.

Don't forget the Velocitus 😉.... Which funny enough is Actually a Projectile Weapon.... With probably the fastest Projectile Flight Speed in the game...

On 2020-12-16 at 2:47 PM, NinjaZeku said:

But I agree that the good ol' regular Bows / Thrown weapons aren't quite up there anymore,
they need a bit of a push, maybe not just damage but something more interesting, dunno what that'd be tho lol.

I don't know about Shurikens.... But Bows need some way of controlling Status Consistency.... Ofcourse such a feature would only be beneficial to The Dread....

Not only that... But it turns out they tried this already with Split Flights which was only really compatible with 2 Bows... Muralist and Rakta Cernos.

13 hours ago, TheMostFrench said:

Fully drawn bows could be able to pin enemies down, then they become single target crowd control. This might mean that bows with punch through DON'T pin enemies, except for the last target they didn't..you know.. punch through.

You know what.... Just do it.... I don't know if it's a good idea but any change is welcome.

10 hours ago, (XBOX)HollowCube987 said:

Fusilai

That's the Name I was looking for 😮... Thank you !!!

10 hours ago, (XBOX)HollowCube987 said:

Pox, Sanci Castanas, and MAYBE Fusilai and Spira Prime can be considered decent.

Pox has the benefit of being a Utility weapon.... Jury is still out on Castanas.... Fusilai is on the verge of being great but just can't quite get there and even my Riven can't carry the Spira Prime beyond Decent....

It's rough for all the Ninja Tenno Ninja out there...

 

[taiiat]

On 2020-12-16 at 3:14 AM, VoidMainline said:

Bows and shuriken are generally underpowered

ever since they increased the Damage and shortened the Charge Time across the board for them, Bows perform fine.
they don't have the Hit Counter that Sniper Rifles have, but you also aren't required to use Fine Aim with every single Shot, so there's that. and while they can't repeat fire as quickly as Sniper Rifles generally, they also don't have to Reload, which is a fair trade.

 

that being said, most Thrown Secondaries don't have anything special about them anymore, i'll agree with that. the Accuracy nerf even makes them often specifically undesirable, heh.
the Explosive ones have more to them that's unique, as long as the Accuracy nerf doesn't frustrate one too much.

[Lutesque]

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

ever since they increased the Damage and shortened the Charge Time across the board for them, Bows perform fine.

I still feel like I can't keep up unless I use Vile Acceleration on everything except Rakta Cernos. 😞.

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

and while they can't repeat fire as quickly as Sniper Rifles generally, they also don't have to Reload, which is a fair trade.

I don't know.... Is it ?

Maybe it's because I use the Synth and The Passive Reload Mods Simultaneously but this doesn't feel like a good Trade off to me...

 

[taiiat]

4 hours ago, Lutesque said:

I still feel like I can't keep up unless I use Vile Acceleration on everything except Rakta Cernos. 😞.

Maybe it's because I use the Synth and The Passive Reload Mods Simultaneously but this doesn't feel like a good Trade off to me...

it makes it viable to not use a Fire Rate Mod, and makes essentially any Fire Rate Mod sufficient for very rapid fire. 

the Bow has an effective Fire Rate somewhere in the ballpark of 50% slower than the Sniper Rifle, but it doesn't have to stop and Reload in trade. it's one plus of several, they all together are what make the Bows less restrictive to use, not just one of them.
Synth Set doesn't really do much for Sniper Rifles, the Magazine Capacity is small enough that you'll have to wait quite a while to get even 1 shot, in which time you could have just Reloaded. 

[MacIntoc]

Or just use Baza instead of silent mods.

[Lone_Dude]

On 2020-09-01 at 7:03 PM, TangyBlueBerry said:

lol no

 

Silent weapons mean nothing. This game isn't focused on being silent, nor does it have any impact in real gameplay. Not too mention silence mods are terrible and are a nerf already as they cost either a damage mod slot. Unless you put an exilus on every weapon, their just bad.

When you really think about it, they cost us a damage slot either way. There are exilus mods for accuracy, recoil decrease and projectile speed increase - the more bullets you land on an enemy, the more damage you deal. In a way, even ammo mutation mods can be considered as a DPS increase on ammo-hungry weapon as it increases the amount of time you can use the gun and deal damage. All of these examples are situational, sure, but noise suppression is also a situational thing in a game where you can beat stealth missions by simply killing everyone who can spot you before they trigger an alarm.

[(XBOX)HollowCube987]

1 hour ago, Lone_Dude said:

All of these examples are situational, sure, but noise suppression is also a situational thing in a game where you can beat stealth missions by simply killing everyone who can spot you before they trigger an alarm.

Honestly, there aren't a lot of mission types that require stealth.

Rathuum, Index, and all endless missions are out of the question because the enemies always spawn on high alert.

Enemies in Mobile Defence go hostile when you put the datamass in a console.

VIP targets in Capture missions will start running the moment you enter the same room as them.

Enemies in Sabatoge missions will go hostile once you finish fiddling with the reactor.

Enemies in Hijack missions go hostile when the payload is hacked free.

The Assault mission on the Kuva Fortress has several stages where the troops will go agro.

If you want to go full stealthy ninja, the only nodes where it would be realistic/possible would be Spy, Exterminate, and possibly Rescue if the operative doesn't want to lick enemy gun barrels like lollipops on your way to extraction. And still, like Lone_Dude said, no one will notice if there's no one to notice.

[Lutesque]

15 hours ago, taiiat said:

the Bow has an effective Fire Rate somewhere in the ballpark of 50% slower than the Sniper Rifle, but it doesn't have to stop and Reload in trade. it's one plus of several, they all together are what make the Bows less restrictive to use, not just one of them.
Synth Set doesn't really do much for Sniper Rifles, the Magazine Capacity is small enough that you'll have to wait quite a while to get even 1 shot, in which time you could have just Reloaded. 

Well... Yeah... But remember... That set can Stack with Tactical Reload so for something like The Lanka you can get a few rounds back very quickly.

 

[Xylena_Lazarow]

11 hours ago, MacIntoc said:

Or just use Baza instead of silent mods.

Baza and its prime should be buffed and/or given a new gimmick. They're weak compared to similar weapons.