lower the cost of son token needed for gilding pets.

[Jim22]

ok so if you wanted to gild all 6 new pets that will cost you 60 son tokens, on top of that you will also need to capture a ton of animals which isn't fun to do because its boring and slow. 

so could we see the amount needed lowered to 5 token instead of 10 please.

[(PSN)Kamranos]

I honestly think the entire token system should be scrapped. Cetus and Fortuna work just fine on their systems. The old saying, “if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it”.

[WarmongerExtraordinare]

while they're at it - the resource that costs 20x1500 standing is OUTRAGEOUS

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

Just make some extras that you don't want to gild, level them to 30, and trade them in for 10 tokens apiece. I've traded in 3 cats this way now, and it's by far the best way to get son tokens.

[EinheriarJudith]

39 minutes ago, (PS4)Kamranos said:

I honestly think the entire token system should be scrapped. Cetus and Fortuna work just fine on their systems. The old saying, “if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it”.

yup it should be scrapped.

[Jim22]

8 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

Just make some extras that you don't want to gild, level them to 30, and trade them in for 10 tokens apiece. I've traded in 3 cats this way now, and it's by far the best way to get son tokens.

you can trade in your pets for tokens?

 

[DrakeWurrum]

49 minutes ago, (PS4)Kamranos said:

I honestly think the entire token system should be scrapped. Cetus and Fortuna work just fine on their systems. The old saying, “if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it”.

I don't think the token system is bad. I think they've undervalued how much work it is to get certain tokens, and how much tokens should be able to get you.

At first I didn't like it and it seemed overwhelming. But as I get further into the Deimos grinds, I'm finding that tokens aren't complicated and, frankly, are a bit easier than Standing in some ways. I'm not finding it half as annoying as I did before. I go out to Deimos, grab whatever resources I feel like finding, or I get lucky enough to find, for a good 30+ minutes, come back in and... buy all the tokens I can.

I sure as hell don't think 60 tokens is the right amount for gilding. I would think a single token would be enough. 3 tops.

[tobascodagama]

3 hours ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

Just make some extras that you don't want to gild, level them to 30, and trade them in for 10 tokens apiece. I've traded in 3 cats this way now, and it's by far the best way to get son tokens.

Yup, this is the way to do it. Way faster than trying to trade for tokens with him.

[master_of_destiny]

5 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

I don't think the token system is bad. I think they've undervalued how much work it is to get certain tokens, and how much tokens should be able to get you.

At first I didn't like it and it seemed overwhelming. But as I get further into the Deimos grinds, I'm finding that tokens aren't complicated and, frankly, are a bit easier than Standing in some ways. I'm not finding it half as annoying as I did before. I go out to Deimos, grab whatever resources I feel like finding, or I get lucky enough to find, for a good 30+ minutes, come back in and... buy all the tokens I can.

I sure as hell don't think 60 tokens is the right amount for gilding. I would think a single token would be enough. 3 tops.

 

Let me entertain the ideas presented in Deimos, explain the stupidity, and offer fixes.  It's not really hard.

 

Tokens existed before, we called them debt bonds of Fortuna.  Looking at the parallel systems PoE offers direct standing gains with a daily cap, infinite farming with fishing, and infinite farming with minerals.  Fortuna evolved this with debt bonds, which had a sliding value scale to represent their relative difficulty to unlock.  This meant standing, fishing, mining, and the bounties also offered RNG standing with the bonds.  More poignantly, Ticker offered to trade credits and resources for some bonds.  This effectively meant that you could grind bounties, fish, mine, or simply buy standing with other resources.  Fantastic.

Now along comes Deimos.  They reject fishing and mining as infinite sources.  The only current infinite source is bounties with mother.  They still want engagement, so they've introduced the concept of bonds but made all of them of equal value and locked to activities.  This removes the ability to choose what you want to do, caps actual earnings from anything but bounties because there's an RNG timer on available rewards, and to people not paying attention it is "better" than a daily cap system.  The catch of course is that there's still a cap, and now all activities must be forced for completion.

 

So what's the better option?  Let's have two token systems.  Let's name on Un-time tokens, and the other Eternity tokens.  Un-time is awarded for conservation, provided fish, provided minerals, and provided other resources.  Grandmother can convert blocks of Un-time tokens into Eternity tokens daily, but only in set quantities and only a specific total which is tied to your mastery rank.  To make the conversion to Eternity tokens appealing, they get to be required to purchase from Grandmother and each of the other NPCs requires them as a crafting component in some of their highest level gear.  

The Un-time token allows for fish to be scaled based upon type and grade.  The conservations can now properly reward bad to perfect captures with additional tokens.  Minerals will have a consistent value, so no goofiness there.  More importantly, there doesn't have to be a bunch of juggling and engagement.  It's an alternative evolution of the bonds system, where sheer quantities will determine relative values of rewards.

 

 

Finally, the gilding.  It's 10 son tokens....which I think is DE missing their own fix.  Son tokens have been shifted down to costing 2 rather than 10 in other areas....and I think they just forgot about it.  2*6 = 12, which isn't a terrible grind for 6 giled pets.  Heck, it's much more work just to get the standing to buy all of the require blue prints for the pet variations.  The rank up until 30 then sell for tokens works....but I hope they patch it to actually be in-line with other prices.

[DrakeWurrum]

30 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

They reject fishing and mining as infinite sources

Worth noting: turning in fish and minerals in PoE for standing does take part in the Standing cap. So... what are you getting at that's not infinite here? They were never "infinite" before. You had to hoard fish and minerals for the next day.

You can still hoard fish and minerals and other resources to turn them in for Deimos Tokens later. It's not any less infinite. Though I don't recommend using anything but Mother Tokens for Standing, since all the other Tokens do have other uses and... aren't worth extra Standing.
Though, question, as I don't know: Do the Token offers reset daily? Or more often than that? I haven't checked.

I personally think the only thing that's really stupid about the Deimos Tokens is that they are all worth the same Standing, but you can farm dozens of Mother Tokens through Bounties with minimal effort... while Son Tokens take much more (not so much in difficulty, but in how much time is spent). Father and Daughter Tokens aren't particularly hard to get (especially as we hoard more Deimos resources, and now that they've removed Scintillant from Father Tokens, I bought out all of his Token offers immediately), but still not as easy to acquire as Mother Tokens. Grandmother Tokens take the most effort of all, since they require OTHER Tokens to acquire. (that's about the only place this system gets complicated, to my mind)
So yeah, they need different Standing rewards for the Tokens.

I'll agree that it would be better to have only two types of Tokens instead of one for each NPC, though. I think most players get overwhelmed by systems that have too many moving pieces.

30 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

Tokens existed before, we called them debt bonds of Fortuna.

I never really used Ticker's Debt Bonds for Standing. I had too many other uses for resources, and ranked up too quickly to really be able to rely on the Debt Bonds that dropped for anything but the rank up cost (in fact, I had to buy Debt Bonds from Ticket specifically for ranking up, because the rarer ones were painful to grind!)

I actually liked PoE letting us turn in minerals and fish way better than Debt Bonds.

I think this Token system is an improvement over Debt Bonds, even if it takes a couple extra steps beyond how PoE handled it.

30 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

The conservations can now properly reward bad to perfect captures with additional tokens.

They should just reward additional Tags for better captures, at this point...

In fact. Forget the Tags. Son should just give us Son Tokens directly for our Captures. Let the Tags exist exclusively for Floofs.

Taking that further, I'd rather turn in fish directly for Daughter Tokens instead of always having to cut them up and then figure out which offers I can afford. I think Father Tokens already work about as fine as they could.

[master_of_destiny]

2 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Worth noting: turning in fish and minerals in PoE for standing does take part in the Standing cap. So... what are you getting at that's not infinite here? They were never "infinite" before.

Because you can still hoard fish (their parts, rather) and minerals and other resources to turn them in for tokens later. Just like we can do with Deimos Tokens. Though I don't recommend using anything but Mother Tokens for Standing, since all the other Tokens do have other uses.

I personally think the only thing that's really stupid about the Deimos Tokens is that they are all worth the same standing, but you can farm dozens of Mother Tokens through Bounties with minimal effort... while Son Tokens take much more (not so much in difficulty, but in how much time is spent). Father and Daughter Tokens aren't particularly hard to get (especially as we hoard more Deimos resources, and now that they've removed Scintillant from Father Tokens, I bought out all of his Token offers immediately), but still not as easy to acquire as Mother Tokens. Grandmother Tokens take the most effort of all, since they require OTHER Tokens to acquire. (that's about the only place this system gets complicated, to my mind)
So yeah, they need different Standing rewards for the Tokens.

I'll agree that it would be better to have only two types of Tokens instead of one for each NPC, though.

I never really used Ticker's Debt Bonds for Standing. I had too many other uses for resources, and ranked up too quickly to really be able to rely on the Debt Bonds that dropped for anything but the rank up cost (in fact, I had to buy Debt Bonds from Ticket specifically for ranking up, because the rarer ones were painful to grind!)

I actually liked PoE letting us turn in minerals and fish way better than Debt Bonds.

I think this Token system is an improvement over Debt Bonds, even if it takes a couple extra steps beyond how PoE handled it.

 

OK.....back to square one.  Standing is earned daily, and if you max out the extra disappears.  It is therefore a finite daily quantity.  For PoE and Fortuna you can hit that quantity, then afterwards go out and fish and mine.  These resources can be infinitely found, added to inventory, and converted back into standing at will whenever you want standing and have the daily capacity.  In this way, they are infinite.

The token system is the same infinity in theory.  You continue to get one of the family members' tokens by doing their stuff, and can convert these at will to standing.  In practice there are timed rewards, finite quantities, and they require vastly varying resources so there is no X:Y conversion.  There is only whatever is available now.

 

If you need Solaris United standing, but don't want to grind bounties, conservation, fishing, or mining you go to Ticker.  Like Deimos, he offers fixed bonds which he can convert to SU standing in exchange for credits and materials.  

 

Regarding your choices...I don't care.  It doesn't matter, just like what I did doesn't matter.  The endgame here is to make everything rewarding, to not cap the engagement in an area because the standing was maxed, and to allow people to engage with things because they want to.  If I wanted to, I could theoretically go to Fortuna and never do a bounty but still get to Old Mate standing.  It would take a huge amount of resources, or a large number of captures, or enough minerals to build a second Fortuna.  That being said, right now Deimos forces engagement with everyone for content.  You need the disparate tokens to get Grandmother tokens, to get seriglass, to make Xaku's warfan and two of the guns available from father.  This is taking a system like Fortuna with real choice, and instead forcing engagement with all systems to get access to content from the core systems.  That's a bad translation from debt bonds to tokens.  

 

 

To address the extra steps....What?  That's not been my point.  My point is that you've basically introduced 6 different types of fun bucks.  5 of the fun bucks cannot be converted between each other, and to get the 6th type of currency you need variable amounts of the other 5.  Topping this off, instead of a consistent ability to earn these fun bucks the conversion is time locked, resource variable, and doesn't allow for choice.  It's effectively DE telling us we've got no limits on the ability to grind, and no penalty for exceeding the daily cap, but they'll only offer to convert real money to fun bucks at random times, and only with specific denomination of currency.  All of this is competing with the shop across the street, also owned by DE, where the fun bucks may have differing denomination but have consistent relative value and can be converted to anything we want to purchase.

[Jim22]

5 hours ago, tobascodagama said:

Yup, this is the way to do it. Way faster than trying to trade for tokens with him.

I have a max rank pet but I can't trade him for tokens.

[tobascodagama]

10 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

I personally think the only thing that's really stupid about the Deimos Tokens is that they are all worth the same Standing, but you can farm dozens of Mother Tokens through Bounties with minimal effort...

Yeah, that's a real head-scratcher. Son Tokens are worth 5x the others, which is probably still a bit low, but the rest are exactly equivalent in Standing for no obvious reason. Maybe the idea was the reinforce the idea that we should only be using them for rank-ups and Grandmother exchanges? But then why have them be worth Standing at all? And even then, the balance is off because Father tokens are way easier to get than Daughter and Otak tokens, which are both way easier to get than Son tokens (unless you're taking full advantage of the pet donations).

8 hours ago, Jim22 said:

I have a max rank pet but I can't trade him for tokens.

I just did it again 30 seconds ago. It's under Experimental Procedures.

[EinheriarJudith]

5 hours ago, tobascodagama said:

I just did it again 30 seconds ago. It's under Experimental Procedures.

this BS system should get removed.

Edit: the most boring way to get tokens also you cant get any tokens if you've reached your cap. like what DE? i can stack father, daughter, mother, and grandmother tokens but not son tokens through releasing animals?

i do not like the leeching nature of the affinity system which is the only way your going to level them up in a reasonable amount of time.