Helminth feeding costs are way too high in some scenarios

[FallenDisco]

Helminth costs to feed specific nutritions are honestly way too high in some scenarios. 

As example one dose of cryotic is equal to 3000!!!! Seriously, how am I supposed to feed this guy since mission itself rewards just 100 per successful mine and crafting weapons requires WAYY less than to give a one table spun to helmith. THAT'S 30 SUCCESSFUL MINES TO FEED HIM ONCE 

Railjack resources however are my main concern about feeding costs. Requires player to run extreme amounts of resources to give one portion to helmith 

Here is a list of costs per portion for people who have not unlocked that yet 

I find them pretty insane (in brackets comparison to typical weapon/components/etc costs) 

Carbides 10k (any base railjack guns (no Mk) 500)

Titanium 20k (any mk3 zetki weapon 15k)

Cubic Diodes 12k (any mk3 vidar weapon 10k) 

Asterite 5k (any mk3 vidar weapon 1.4k)

NullStones 225 (tycho seeker mk3 7)

Bracoid 1k (lavan mk3 engines 16)

Pustrels 15k (any zetki mk3 weapon 8k)

Trachons 10k (any zetki mk3 weapon 2k)

Copernics 15k (any lavan mk3 weapon 10k)

Fresnels 1k (zetki pulsar mk3 20)

Isos 400 (any base railjack guns (no Mk) 10)

 

Sure, some of them are not that insane compared to weapon ingredients, but overall every single one of them requires more than a fully built mk100 railjack gun. Why does helmith have to eat costs of entire ship to let me feed him with a warframe. 

In my opinion, helmith feeding costs should be at least a little bit lower, than average weapon costs. Like, let's say 30% less than railjack gear costs. 

[schilds]

The railjack resource costs are high for the amount you can get (5k Asterite?) but you're not required to feed him any particular thing. I have tons of Rubedo so I used that, and even at the worst efficiency I still have tons left after ranking Helminth up to 10.

[TheGrimCorsair]

Wrong thread

[--N0X--]

Got the segment installed when the daily changed over around half an hour ago.

Out of curiosity fed it up to 100% on each of the categories and then subsumed one warframe.

Nearly all of the costs involved in this took a substantial chunk of my resources and I've played around 2k hours of this game. The costs are somewhere between 5x-10x what they should be IMO, not just for railjack materials, pretty disgraceful and insulting.

If nothing changes on this then at least I've satiated my curiosity and won't be back in the helminth room again. Also, not if but when they reduce the cost of this I would suggest that anyone who has already fed into this system be refunded.

[Yagamilight123]

hace 1 hora, --N0X-- dijo:

Got the segment installed when the daily changed over around half an hour ago.

Out of curiosity fed it up to 100% on each of the categories and then subsumed one warframe.

Nearly all of the costs involved in this took a substantial chunk of my resources and I've played around 2k hours of this game. The costs are somewhere between 5x-10x what they should be IMO, not just for railjack materials, pretty disgraceful and insulting.

If nothing changes on this then at least I've satiated my curiosity and won't be back in the helminth room again. Also, not if but when they reduce the cost of this I would suggest that anyone who has already fed into this system be refunded.

If you played 2 k hours (i am barely 1700 i think) and you use "a sustantial chunk of your resources" you were pretty lazy in those 2k hours ... some resources are no balanced (railjack ones) but the rest are fine .

[--N0X--]

Really, that's almost the stupidest reasoning I've read. How can you play the game "lazily" for 2k hours?...

[Izgule]

The will reduce it later after draining the resources of the richer players... if we are lucky we  will  get some treat for our efforts.

[ShogunGunshow]

"Here's a rare resource. I want 10000 of them."

[Jylon]

i reached level 10 with helminth, and it took me over an hour with all clickings, but i agree that some of the resources, especially the railjack ones, cryo, and such are too much per feeding tick.  if i haven't been playing regularly since 2015, i'd have lacked so much. so for newer players, this will drag on and use up too many of their necessary resources if they focus on it.

[anarchy753]

DE - "If we make the costs high maybe THAT will force people to play Railjack finally!"

Players - "Hold my Rubedo."

[schilds]

16 minutes ago, anarchy753 said:

DE - "If we make the costs high maybe THAT will force people to play Railjack finally!"

I was wondering about that, but surely that's not their logic because it makes no sense. Players will *avoid* farming Railjack resources for the Helminth, because they're so inefficient compared to other resources. When they do farm/acquire those resources, they will prefer to keep them to spend on Railjack stuff, since that will give much better value for money.

[Tsukinoki]

4 hours ago, --N0X-- said:

Nearly all of the costs involved in this took a substantial chunk of my resources and I've played around 2k hours of this game. The costs are somewhere between 5x-10x what they should be IMO, not just for railjack materials, pretty disgraceful and insulting.

Here's the thing:
The system was designed for people with way more resources than they could ever use.

And if its using a "substrantial" chunk of your resources to get one subsumed ability...then you need to work on your farming.
If you have 2K hours in the game (and is that steam time or the time from your profile...steam time is misleading as that counts launcher open and sitting in orbiter/relays while profile time is time in mission) then getting everything to 100%, subsuming a warframe, and getting everything back to 100% shouldn't have even dented your stockpiles of resources.

2 hours ago, --N0X-- said:

Really, that's almost the stupidest reasoning I've read. How can you play the game "lazily" for 2k hours?...

There are tons of ways to be a lazy player with 2K hours.
Mainly just never grinding for resources.
Hek I've seen players with nearly 3K hours in the game that didn't have the Sibear because "That's too much cryotic to farm"....which is damn lazy IMHO.  30K cryotic isn't that hard to farm nor does it take that long if you do it in a smart fashion.

Another way to be a "lazy" player is to play 2K+ hours on the affinity farms and not bother with the rest of the game.
I've heard players throw a fit becasue they only have one factions resources and absolutely no others because they spent 90% of their time on one factions maps and haven't farmed the other resources in any meaningful fashion.

Helminth is supposed to be a stupid resource sink so that players can finally stop complaining "I have X million of Z resource!  Give me a reason to use it!!!!!!" in threads that appear semi-regularly.
Its supposed to have stupidly high costs and act as an actual resource sink for the millions-to-billions of useless junk that we get in missions and have no purpose for when you have 100% of everything in the game.
And I can promise you that the helminth system doesn't go far enough.

[--N0X--]

3 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

Here's the thing:
The system was designed for people with way more resources than they could ever use.

And if its using a "substrantial" chunk of your resources to get one subsumed ability...then you need to work on your farming.
If you have 2K hours in the game (and is that steam time or the time from your profile...steam time is misleading as that counts launcher open and sitting in orbiter/relays while profile time is time in mission) then getting everything to 100%, subsuming a warframe, and getting everything back to 100% shouldn't have even dented your stockpiles of resources.

There are tons of ways to be a lazy player with 2K hours.
Mainly just never grinding for resources.
Hek I've seen players with nearly 3K hours in the game that didn't have the Sibear because "That's too much cryotic to farm"....which is damn lazy IMHO.  30K cryotic isn't that hard to farm nor does it take that long if you do it in a smart fashion.

Another way to be a "lazy" player is to play 2K+ hours on the affinity farms and not bother with the rest of the game.
I've heard players throw a fit becasue they only have one factions resources and absolutely no others because they spent 90% of their time on one factions maps and haven't farmed the other resources in any meaningful fashion.

Helminth is supposed to be a stupid resource sink so that players can finally stop complaining "I have X million of Z resource!  Give me a reason to use it!!!!!!" in threads that appear semi-regularly.
Its supposed to have stupidly high costs and act as an actual resource sink for the millions-to-billions of useless junk that we get in missions and have no purpose for when you have 100% of everything in the game.
And I can promise you that the helminth system doesn't go far enough.

Then it's a flawed system that only caters to the 1%.

None of your definitions of a "lazy player" apply in my case and some frankly sound ridiculous. One's faction resources? You're suggesting people only play corpus maps or only play grineer maps..... I've had daily reward/twitch prime or paid for boosters during most of play time. I have all frames non prime and prime and have re-farmed (not paid plat) for most of the non primes once again for this update. I'm sitting at MR25, mainly spending my time doing arbis or hunting eidolons for whatever arcanes I still don't have. I also have a maxed railjack with maxed intrinsics, but feel free to keep classing me as a lazy player.

Be real. If you are sitting on mountains of resources you are in some kind of 0.5% and if that's what the helminth system caters to it's DOA..

[ElWinnero]

If that Content is only for the best 0.5% of players... I'm out!

I started warframe like 2 years ago, got like 850-900h in mission (1500h on steam), maxed out intrinsics, have all 233 steelpath-nodes done, reached MR29, and before the update I only needed 9 more weapons (6 from syndicate, 1 kuva weapon and 2 timegated loginweapons).

I really don't think, that I'm a lazy player. I was always focused on MR, but this new system is really over the top. I was happy, having a lot of resources, that I don't have to think about anymore. had a stable counter of 700 Orokin Cells, 60k Cryotic, and after that grind I just played for fun.

In preperation of the update i farmed 42 out of the 43 frames, and built them... but then i saw the feedingcosts... Feeling forced to sacrifice all the materials now is really a pain in the ass and i hope they gonna reduce the amout of resources needed..

Just my opinion...

[(XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK]

It's funny how so many people feel like they're being forced to give up 100% of their materials to the Helminth. It's an optional system to increase the potential of any Warframe. Nobody is forcing anyone to give up all or even anything to the Helminth. Escpecially within a few days after the update drops. 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

9 hours ago, ElWinnero said:

If that Content is only for the best 0.5% of players... I'm out!

I started warframe like 2 years ago, got like 850-900h in mission (1500h on steam), maxed out intrinsics, have all 233 steelpath-nodes done, reached MR29, and before the update I only needed 9 more weapons (6 from syndicate, 1 kuva weapon and 2 timegated loginweapons).

I really don't think, that I'm a lazy player. I was always focused on MR, but this new system is really over the top. I was happy, having a lot of resources, that I don't have to think about anymore. had a stable counter of 700 Orokin Cells, 60k Cryotic, and after that grind I just played for fun.

In preperation of the update i farmed 42 out of the 43 frames, and built them... but then i saw the feedingcosts... Feeling forced to sacrifice all the materials now is really a pain in the ass and i hope they gonna reduce the amout of resources needed..

Just my opinion...

No offense but that's a really small amount of resources if we use your 2 examples of orokin cells and cryotic. By your own admission you focused on MR, this system is for those of us who ground out resources BEFORE you played, back when there actually was a grind. You think there's grind now? There isn't compared to before, you never had to grind rare fusion cores and end up with millions of cryotic. You never had to grind credits on Akkad and end up with millions of nano spores, plastids, etc. And then there's the Orokin derelicts and Void Tier keys we grinded for hours. That's who it's aimed at draining. And so what if it takes a bit longer for newer players, this entire game is casual as hell, no reason 1% can't be harder to achieve.

[(PSN)Sourestdeeds]

The feeding preference resets every day. Ive subsumed 4 warframes so far and barely used anything!

Whats the point of hitting rank 10 so early? It takes a day to subsume so may as well wait until the next.

[ElWinnero]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb (PS4)Sourestdeeds:

The feeding preference resets every day. Ive subsumed 4 warframes so far and barely used anything!

Whats the point of hitting rank 10 so early? It takes a day to subsume so may as well wait until the next.

Just to mention: it is possible to rush the subsume since Hotfix 29.0.06

I'm not sure why you guys are all "happy" with the high costs... maybe it is, cause you want the stuff to be "exclusive" for yourself, but in the end it will be, like it was with railjack, the arcanes and the acolytes.

They lower the requirements... so why not now?

railjack... getting refunded

arcanes... making tridolon obsolete by scarlet spear (which is coming back)

acolytes... just make the mods a drop on deimos bounties

I thought the update is for everyone and not gating the possibilities behind "you have to play 5 years" or so...

[-CdG-Zilchy]

2 minutes ago, ElWinnero said:

I thought the update is for everyone and not gating the possibilities behind "you have to play 5 years" or so...

I mean they specifically stated in the update notes that it's a system for very experienced players but hey, you do you.

[Yakhul]

Im ok with the costs do far. Is not supposed to be something you spend 1mill credits and then forget about it.

A lot of people are wanting to rush the ranking, and that is costing them literally everything.

Reminder that your helminth will grow hungry again for a resource you already fed him, by the next day, so you can save your high cost resources if you just pace your game instead of wanting everything rushed .

[ElWinnero]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb -CdG-Zilchy:

I mean they specifically stated in the update notes that it's a system for very experienced players but hey, you do you.

You are correct! Well ... somehow... but not if you also define "experienced players in the way DE does...

We consider this a customization system for very experienced Warframe players (Mastery Rank 8 Prerequisite).

Source:

 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

2 minutes ago, ElWinnero said:

You are correct! Well ... somehow... but not if you also define "experienced players in the way DE does...

We consider this a customization system for very experienced Warframe players (Mastery Rank 8 Prerequisite).

Source:

 

Pretty sure they made it MR 8 to please the complaints about being locked out of content. Instead you can get hit by a harsh reality wall as you start to realise what experienced really means.

[Tsukinoki]

2 minutes ago, ElWinnero said:

You are correct! Well ... somehow... but not if you also define "experienced players in the way DE does...

We consider this a customization system for very experienced Warframe players (Mastery Rank 8 Prerequisite).

Please remember:
It was a bunch of players complaining that MR15 was too high because "they didn't want to rank up their mastery as they found gear that was good and didn't want to use MR fodder" that came out of the wood worked and threw an absolute fit about "being locked out of content" because they don't like leveling random gear....and DE listened.

And now those players are seeing that MR8 really isn't as "experienced" as they thought it was and that they don't have the raw resources to keep up with the helminth system.

[ElWinnero]

vor 22 Minuten schrieb (XB1)TyeGoo:

THIS should be pinned not only to this thread, but in all player discussion parts of the forum.

I'm really getting tired of "you have to feed him this and that and everything else is impossible please de nerf" .. really sick of it..

Glad you got the point!

You will NEVER be able to suck the resources out of someone that was playing constantly for 8 years or so..

The Question is, where you make the cut? And I'd say, that the actual resourcelevel you have to reach is too high.

I don't want to make the system like "feed 1 argon = rank up", but the actual amount is just too much for (as you might imply) "casual players with only 500+ hours ingame"

[Raikh]

Not sure why some people seem to like some resources being disproportionate outliers compared to the other options.

I don't think the upfront cost of levelling Helminth is that bad, since you get a decent chunk fo subsume slots along the way to get the basics running and eventually you're done with it.

The running costs of experimentation and future content however is a bit concerning. Not only does the system make you build two of every frame in the future if you want access to new abilities but infusing those then also costs quite a lot of materials. Experimentation is taxed super heavily, especially so if you experiment on many frames. Upcoming tuning adjustments can also make people switch their infused abilities around on a dozen frames and so on.

There is certainly a portion of the playerbase with enough resources to sustain that for years and that keep playing a lot which causes them no never run dry. However for players that are tomorrows experienced players that looks a little less likely. You can progress through most of the game's progression systems witohut ever really stockpiling massive amounts of resources due to constantly building stuff along the way. And the more specialized means there are to acquire specific resources the less likely it is that a good chunk of other resources pile up in the mean time.

Not sure if the running costs of the Helminth system are very future proof even as a high end system. Especially given how little incentive there is to go on long missions where a lot of resources come from.