MR Requirements for Necramech

[Chief801]

Heya all. I just wanted to start a discussion/make a statement real quick. Necramechs should not have the mastery requirement they do. I've been playing Warframe for 4 years now, but I'm still mastery 11. This isn't because I just idle in trade chat or anything. The way I play Warframe just has me use the same weapons I enjoy using/get interest out of me. I didn't get the real point of Mastery outside of farming it when I was in the mood to try and get some higher Mastery weapons. I spend most of my gameplay helping people in my clan or newbies in general. I completed War Within on release. My point is, I may have a lower mastery, but that does not mean I am inexperienced. I know I am a minority among minorities, but that's not the only reason. You have to have beaten War Within to even get access to the syndicate in the first place. I simply don't understand why this is the way it is. These things are all over the advertisement for Heart of Deimos, though. Think in the mindset of a new player. You play the Heart of Deimos quest after gaining access to it at an early stage. You get to use the Necramech in the quest. You learn you can make one for yourself. Its fun, so why not. But first, you need access to the syndicate, so you need War Within, so you get Mastery 5 and clear most of the starchart, which is a time sink within itself. Then, you gain access to the room, and learn to even gain the rights to craft the parts of the Necramech, you have to be MR 11, which in itself is a bit scummy, but its not too hard. But unless you check the wiki, you won't realize that there's another MR 14 requirement. None of this is told to you. I grinded all of the parts for the Necramech before I realized, and that's my fault. But even beyond all that, there's one major problem. Its not good enough to warrant all that grind. If you want mobility, you can get the Archwing call-in. If you want damage, Saryn Prime has a MR requirement of 0. Ignis Wraith is only MR 9. The only appeal to me is that its a cool looking mech. At this point, I may just give up on it, and just wait until I naturally gain the Mastery. But I'm not going to force myself through weeks of grinding MR with uninteresting weapons to use a sub-par mech.

TL;DR Necramechs need to have lower mastery requirements, or atleast clarify that its a minimum MR 14 so newer players who don't check the wiki don't waste the small amount of daily standing they have on a syndicate that's useless until MR 14.

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

You do know necroloid standing is different than entrati standing, correct?

[Deadoon]

They need to be a little more transparent with it, I agree. But the gun it comes with which is a mr14 archgun is quite the workhorse. It is the overall best automatic archgun in the game, and the only reason you'd replace it is if you need the special properties of another gun like the proxy fuses of the grattler, the punch-through of the fluctus or the per shot firepower of the velocitus.

 

Also daily standing is on a per faction basis. You can max out your daily standing with every open world and their advanced forms so there is a lot you can do every day.

[Kaotyke]

Ah yes, "newer players".

In a syndicate you only unlock after TWW. 

Should we give them potty  training still?

[TheGuyver]

I think DE has done enough handholding for lower ranked players this update. They should increase the requirements with how good the weapon is imo. 

[Heiven]

Would you look at that, yet another thread from a Experienced player asking for stuff to be made easier to get because ... new players.

Hey OP new players DO NOT need for any one to hold them by the hand!!! They are just fine without people like you constantly asking the developer to make things easier and more easier. Also just because you your self choose to not bother with 70% of the content(hens being MR 11 despite playing for 4 years, nothing wrong with that) in the game doesn't mean every new players will be the same. Its up to them to choose how to play and what to farm.

[(XBOX)Madinogi]

6 minutes ago, Heiven said:

Would you look at that, yet another thread from a Experienced player asking for stuff to be made easier to get because ... new players.

Hey OP new players DO NOT need for any one to hold them by the hand!!! They are just fine without people like you constantly asking the developer to make things easier and more easier. Also just because you your self choose to not bother with 70% of the content(hens being MR 11 despite playing for 4 years, nothing wrong with that) in the game doesn't mean every new players will be the same. Its up to them to choose how to play and what to farm.

while i dont agree with the making the MR lower for this content. whats the problem with More experiance players fending for the newer players? thats not soemthing to be frowned upon, its something to be honered honestly. something that experianced players dont need to do, but do it because they respect new players struggle. 

i for one as a MR 22 do advocate for the removal of the daily standing cap for open world factions 6 months to a year after its release to allow new players to grind out their standign and catch up with people whove had access to it for years. perfect example of this. Profit taker. its locked behind Rank 5 of the SU. which could for new player who have seent he fight and have everything they need for it take months to gain access to because of the Standing cap. 

the only thing they would be missing is the archgun launcher which you gain access to through the course of the profit takers story/misisons. 

imaggine having a player come into the game, see the nightwave. and then see they have a mission for profit taker, IE something they cant and will not have access to for probaly a month? so now they have that clogging up their challenge list, and even then if they want to join a friend who has access to it, they litterally cant. 

[Yamazuki]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)Madinogi said:

whats the problem with More experiance players fending for the newer players?

Probably because they aren't? The op doesn't meet the MR requirement, so a lower requirement benefits them. That's almost always the case when it comes to these complaints, they just toss in "new players" afterwards, the same way adults throw around "think of the children" as an argument.

[Nylmin]

It is so annoying to see players asking for an easier game and then complain it has no content for veterans.

Here, you have it, necramechs, dreadful slaughter machines, they shouldn't be for new players, they shouldn't be for mid players, they are for veterans.

It is a good thing you get to try one only to get your own way later, in the same fashion it is a good thing a new player will struggle against eidolons for a while, until he'll get a good amp, arcanes and focus.

The same goes for railjack, reducing the grind to get your own was a stupid thing to ask and unfortunatly we got it, it was a good thing to play a lot as a crewmember to then only way later get your own ship.

And you know why all these should be this way ? Satisfaction, gratification.

Of course veterans are complaining about the game new content all the time, because we easily get it right away, have a little fun with it and then get bored. There is no real satisfaction in the obtention of this new mechanics, weapons, whatever.

So please stop whining about the game being to grindy or too hard only to complain about it being too easy after having rush all the content a new update had to offer.

[(XBOX)Madinogi]

1 hour ago, Yamazuki said:

Probably because they aren't? The op doesn't meet the MR requirement, so a lower requirement benefits them. That's almost always the case when it comes to these complaints, they just toss in "new players" afterwards, the same way adults throw around "think of the children" as an argument.

im not talking about the issue of the OP being lower MR. im talking about the person im responding to and their general nasty attitude about more experiance players standing up to improve the experiance for newer players even tho they themselves gain nothing out of it.

[Ocerkin]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)Madinogi said:

im not talking about the issue of the OP being lower MR. im talking about the person im responding to and their general nasty attitude about more experiance players standing up to improve the experiance for newer players even tho they themselves gain nothing out of it.

how about giving mastery ranks more purpose past "oh i can grind more today" as the reason to rank up? put some more stuff higher in the ranks so there are less people who decide oh i can stay at mr 11 or whatever because "I WANT ONE OF THOSE!" the exact reason that people dont see a reason to rank up anymore is because it serves no purpose, and its threads like this that keeps trying to drop requirements so there are still less reason, helminth should have been much higher in the MR for instance, necramechs shouldnt be dropped down in rank requirement either

[JackHargreav]

If you know how powerfull the necromech and it's weapon is you know why It's locked there.

The ultimate on the mech is disgustingly strong.

[Yamazuki]

45 minutes ago, (XB1)Madinogi said:

im not talking about the issue of the OP being lower MR. im talking about the person im responding to and their general nasty attitude about more experiance players standing up to improve the experiance for newer players even tho they themselves gain nothing out of it.

Which is why I wasn't just referring to the op. These other "experienced" people that complained about the MR requirement were also in the same position. If you read their entire post you would have understood that's why they are upset. Most people don't care for new people, it's either for their own benefit or people they know. Yay for context.

When the Helminth MR requirement was shown, these "experienced" people that whined were under said MR requirement themselves. DE lowered it to MR8, and are we really going to pretend lower MR requirements benefit new people? What new person can even afford to level Helminth up? MR8 is barely 1 week of casual play, between crafting weapons/warframes they'll barely have any resources. In fact, MR8 only takes a little over a week due to the 24 hour timer on tests.

The same is true for Necramech, what new person can legitimately kill them without "whaling", getting free stuff, or being carried? People with mods and weapon+warframe choices are complaining, and yet, some random guy who just started playing can stroll into each vault area and kill it themselves. Yes, I'm sure a lower MR requirement definitely benefits them, in the same way Helminth did.

When it comes to standing, DE increased daily limits at lower MR. Gear being tied to MR is just a progression thing. There's duplicates of so many weapons with better versions being tied to higher MR. Lets also not act like MR14 takes ages either, getting mods without buying them or getting lucky would take more time.

Does anyone even know what it's like to be new to Warframe? I've gotten over 20 people to try Warframe the last 2 years. Want to know how many had issues with MR locks? 0. How many quit due to it? 0. Only 1 person even still plays, all of them quit entirely due to lack of direction, lack of sense of progression, or feeling useless. Lowering MR requirements doesn't fix any of the issues Warframe has.

[Chief801]

Heya all. Just woke up. First off, sorry I didn’t realise how busted the Necramech weapon is. I’ve only been able to use the unmodded version during Vault runs and thought it was nothing too special, but I guess I’m wrong, so apologies. I don’t mind it being MR 14. I just don’t like how unclear it is what mastery will be needed for it. Hell, just have the MR 14 blueprint be required for the first advancement instead of the second. I’ll probably grind it out eventually. I also do think Helminth should have stayed at MR 15. There’s a lot of frames that newer players are just going to build and subsume instead of ever levelling them. Though that’s just my opinion, and a bit hypocritical, since I only have MR 11 after 4 years.

[Luciole77]

get more MR....simple.

[Monolake]

Well you have only 260 hrs played so MR11 sounds normal for you. Get more sentinels - they grant 6k (+3k for their weapon) and dont make you change your main loadout. And rank some fodder on the likes of Hydron\ESO to catch up.

Anyway Mastery is a bad system and DE should redesign it to give mastery for achievements and actually playing, not for passively ranking up fodder, but dont expect this to happen.

[Heiven]

7 hours ago, (XB1)Madinogi said:

whats the problem with More experiance players fending for the newer players?

Looks like i have to explain my self in more dept. First of no ,of course there's no problem helping new players i my self have done that quite a lot. The problem is the idea that new player struggle with the game either because of the standing cap, MR wall, grinding and so on. The real problem is the lack of information! By that i mean that when you start the game as new player you see a lot of elements that work separated of one another and you need help to understand how is every thing tied together. - help that you can get only from the wiki and other players, not from the game it self.

A lot of quests show you some of the different elements of the game and hold you by the hand like with every other game but when they end your left with the feeling that you've mist something. Like you don't really have a clear direction of where to go to next. With some quest you get the bp for a new warframe but the game doesn't tell you where are the parts and how you can farm them. You get you operator and the Focus, well how do you earn the focus!? And so on. Those are the real problems new players face not the "but why is this requirement so high" the new players would have a problem with it. Even if the new players would need a lot time playing the game to reach said point and by then they would have the knowledge to overcome said difficulty.

7 hours ago, (XB1)Madinogi said:

after its release to allow new players to grind out their standign and catch up with people whove had access to it for years

Why should new players have the option to catch up with other players? You do realize that ..... no wait you don't, that's why it typed it!  If its easier for new players to reach the ones with years of gameplay they would either at that point drop the game or take a long time break until the next big update or next 5 new updates. Remember the main point of games is to keep players as long as possible! Also if there's no level cap most people would most likely burn them self with the game to the point of dropping it for some time(weeks or even months).

Now to the main topic.

Well for the most part DE was caught with there pants down when it comes to the MR for the nekromech. Also when they say for experience players and point the MR they don't really mean it as it sounds, because like OP pointed out you can be a experienced player and not be even close to the said MR. Its just there way of more clearly explaining that it wont be easy to obtain. Also with the change from 15 to 8 looks like a call on the flight without thinking(hens the pointers of many people). Also even without the MR you still face the wall of resource requirements for the mech and the time investment for the new open would, so the MR would be any ones last problem.

[(PSN)Wolfsherrscher]

What can I say young sprout...

Your playstyle is hindering you from unlocking new content. If you want the MR 14 stuff you have to - at the very least try some the lower MR stuff. Imagine if new players could just in a day build their Necramech without ever trying the other fun content (that would make no sense).

At this point your Dojo should be full of blueprints, and your inventory full of materials. Take a guess what those are for.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

people need more reasons to get higher MR, the ranks go from 1 to 29 , yet all the rewards peter out at about rank 17, the highest riven rank requirement. that's 12 ranks of basically nothing, save an extra trade, a bit more standing, and a few more Void Traces. DE should do something to give players the incentive to rank up, and the people always saying "BuT ThE NeWbIeS!" need to back off long enough for that to happen.

[(XBOX)Madinogi]

On 2020-08-30 at 6:08 PM, Heiven said:

Looks like i have to explain my self in more dept. First of no ,of course there's no problem helping new players i my self have done that quite a lot. The problem is the idea that new player struggle with the game either because of the standing cap, MR wall, grinding and so on. The real problem is the lack of information! By that i mean that when you start the game as new player you see a lot of elements that work separated of one another and you need help to understand how is every thing tied together. - help that you can get only from the wiki and other players, not from the game it self.

A lot of quests show you some of the different elements of the game and hold you by the hand like with every other game but when they end your left with the feeling that you've mist something. Like you don't really have a clear direction of where to go to next. With some quest you get the bp for a new warframe but the game doesn't tell you where are the parts and how you can farm them. You get you operator and the Focus, well how do you earn the focus!? And so on. Those are the real problems new players face not the "but why is this requirement so high" the new players would have a problem with it. Even if the new players would need a lot time playing the game to reach said point and by then they would have the knowledge to overcome said difficulty.

Why should new players have the option to catch up with other players? You do realize that ..... no wait you don't, that's why it typed it!  If its easier for new players to reach the ones with years of gameplay they would either at that point drop the game or take a long time break until the next big update or next 5 new updates. Remember the main point of games is to keep players as long as possible! Also if there's no level cap most people would most likely burn them self with the game to the point of dropping it for some time(weeks or even months).

Now to the main topic.

Well for the most part DE was caught with there pants down when it comes to the MR for the nekromech. Also when they say for experience players and point the MR they don't really mean it as it sounds, because like OP pointed out you can be a experienced player and not be even close to the said MR. Its just there way of more clearly explaining that it wont be easy to obtain. Also with the change from 15 to 8 looks like a call on the flight without thinking(hens the pointers of many people). Also even without the MR you still face the wall of resource requirements for the mech and the time investment for the new open would, so the MR would be any ones last problem.

my main problem is the standing cap on Open world factions hampering the player. perfect example being the Profit Taker Fight. you cant enter it unless you are Lvl 5 with the SU. which can take a month or more if you are low in MR, you can litterally have everything you need even a build for the fight and even know the fights in and outs. only thing missing is the archgun deployer which you get via the missions leading up to the fight itself, but the problem? you cant go in for anouther few weeks, 

the content like the open worlds depreciate over time. less and less people are running its content as they slowly get everything, its been what 3-4 years since Plains of eidolon released, and 2 years since Fortuna released. i say remove their standing caps since their over a year old. but since Deimos just released it keeps its cap in place til next august. let players start farming for everything they need in a day or 2 of non stop farming if they want to if the content has been in for over a year. obviously this wouldnt apply to the 6 main syndicates. 

also its a generally Crap idea to force players of any level to play for years on end just to reach certain levels of content just because others had to. because ultiamtely it makes players want to not bother at all if the more interesting and juicy stuff are years away for them. 

Which is better? forcing a new player to wait 5 years to reach a certain point to get 1 thing? or let players hit that point at the 1000 hour mark if they work towards it. 

you dont want players to have to sign into your game every day whent hey dont to just so they can access content 3 months later. because of a arbitrairy Standing Cap. thats happened alot, just straight up tell the player "Hey this content is locked behind 100 hours of gameplay, its your choiuce if you want to do that at your own pace or knock it out in a week" the MR requirements is alright as you still work towards it regardless of what your doing in game. Standing Caps not really, as it is right now your essentially forced to run that content in a set amount of time or your punished for it becauses its gone to waste, "IE im at work, i get off at 7 PM, i get home at 7;30 PM i only have 30 minutes to knock out all my standing caps. and i must do it now otherwise its wasted, under the proposed solution, that doesnt happen, they can do it whenever they got the time. for example they can focus on other stuff in the game, and then knock out a couple of ranks in a faction on the weekend or when they feel comfortable on working on it. 

The burn out argument isnt actually a argument as it happens now anyway, you get burnt out as is working on things you dont want to do. Do you want to grind out your Ventkids rep right now because if you dont its (X amount) of Rep wasted? or would you rather work on it at your own pace? when you force someone to do somethign they dont want to do at that time you kill their desire to continue doing it or even their desire to play. they had to do this for the daily tribute system already and guess what it was welcomed Minus the (Reeee i signed in every day for 3 years for my Zenistar) Crowd, Sometimes things liek this need to happen otherwise you risk not retaining new players at all. 

 

Apoligies for the Late reply, i havnt been at my place over the past week as ive been at my moms helping with Clean up, Last Weekends Storm flooded her basement with 9 inches of water so ive been helping everyday with getting everything out so it can be inspected and fixed up. 

[Proscriptor]

On 2020-08-30 at 8:26 AM, Chief801 said:

Heya all. I just wanted to start a discussion/make a statement real quick. Necramechs should not have the mastery requirement they do. I've been playing Warframe for 4 years now, but I'm still mastery 11. 

there is a formal measure of progress and you aren't meeting the mark. the rules won't be adapted to you, since you can always adapt to the rules. 

[Heiven]

8 hours ago, (XB1)Madinogi said:

my main problem is the standing cap on Open world factions hampering the player

Well that's one thing that wont be removed and clearly wont be changed. However DE made massive changes to the farming and the requirements needed to level up in order to ease the grind, so don't expect to lower the bar even lower. I'm one of the people who reached max standing at the Plains before they ease up the requirements(people complained that it was a nightmare to grind?!?) and it was super easy for me and now its a joke. Hell look at the Entrati where you needed 10-30 tokens of two characters in order to level up and now its just one token of each. I'm not sure if it can get more easy than this or if it should be.

    Also whats the problem with "which can take a month or more if you are low in MR"? Even a moth its kinda of exaggeration but for the sake of argument lets say its so! Well do they need to be in a hurry for some other content(that's for a limited time, Destiny 2 style) that requires max level of this content?! So what if it takes a moth or two or even five to reach the max syndicate standing? People would reach it in there own pace, what ever that is.    Whats the rush to make new players reach other people faster? They wont miss out of anything if they take there time with the open worlds and the game as hole.

11 hours ago, (XB1)Madinogi said:

Which is better? forcing a new player to wait 5 years to reach a certain point to get 1 thing? or let players hit that point at the 1000 hour mark if they work towards it. 

Years?! Forced .... to wait? Whats this about i lost you there? Didn't you say that for low MR players it takes a moth or so to reach max standing for a open world? Well apart of the open worlds whats there to make players wait for years to reach the rest of the player base?!

11 hours ago, (XB1)Madinogi said:

essentially forced to run that content in a set amount of time or your punished for it becauses its gone to waste, "IE im at work, i get off at 7 PM, i get home at 7;30 PM i only have 30 minutes to knock out all my standing caps. and i must do it now otherwise its wasted, under the proposed solution, that doesnt happen, they can do it whenever they got the time

So what if you miss a day or two or moth of farming cap standing? So what if it gets wasted? You are in a hurry to reach that point because???? Essentially your free to do what ever the F you like in the game and do what ever missions you like. You want to do certain missions and not the grinding the cap standing? Then DO it! Ol but you also want to do that And the other thing!? Well you will have to prioritize then! Do what ever feels like it will be the most fun for you, because if it feels like a chore there's no point of it.

Also explain to me how a person with limited time of gameplay can reach higher whit no daily cap limit, when its already hard for them to reach the current standing for the free time they have? I personally take my time with things and don't care if i will reach max syndicate standing tomorrow, at the end of the week or after two moths! No body is forcing me, you or any body els to finish with every new content AS Fast as possible!!!

I do agree with you on the getting burned point. But as far as to the rep wasted, prioritize! You cant get everything at the same time. Well there was such a thing with the game pass at season one. But people felt its impossible level of hard to do and begged like a beggar to get change and so it came to pass.

11 hours ago, (XB1)Madinogi said:

Apoligies for the Late reply, i havnt been at my place over the past week as ive been at my moms helping with Clean up

No problem, thought as much.

[Fallen77]

MR doesn't mean anything in terms of skill, we all know that. But it's still a somewhat good indicator of where a player should be. (Except when DE caves in like for helminth, only to have all the noobs complain that they can't afford it...)

Now, if you have been willingly ignoring parts of the game for so long, it's your fault. The point of that requirement, for a player that would have engaged with all aspects of the game, would have been to tell them "you're bellow mr14 ? Are you sure it is already time for you to do ISO vaults ?". 

By just having a mrfodder secondary on you at all times, not even using it nor running hydron and stuff, you'd already be mr16 at least by now. Sorry but I have no sympathy for you, you chose to sidestep a huge part of the game.

It's like all the people that went out of their way to avoid fortuna, proudly claiming that they would never touch it solely out of spite, then came back crying when Xaku required a couple of low tier items that I accumulated more than a hundred without even trying to.

[(PSN)Double991]

The amount of mastery points you need to rank up at MR11 are relatively small compared to a MR28 trying to get to 29.

Your justifications indicate that you'd rather stick to the bare minimum inventory that you deem meta instead of experimenting with all of the content that the game has to offer.

With the amount of things available to rank up you could easily hit MR14 in a short time, not weeks, if you tried.

[Methanoid]

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