Status immunity on enemies is not cool

[Flying_Scorpion]

They've said in the past they want to avoid making one clear obvious best choice or "mandatory" choice (which is just another way of saying they want to promote build diversity) and yet here we are in the Cambian Drift with enemies completely immune to status effects, or only immune to certain status effects like Viral. And what does that lead to? Crit+raw damage. In this case, it's crit+corrosive.

If they want to promote build diversity and have people running a variety of builds and elemental damage combinations, do the obvious thing: Nerf viral and heat, and then other status effects like corrosive, cold, etc will be more viable options (and it wouldn't hurt to remove the cap on 10x gas/electric procs either). For those of you who don't agree with me saying "nerf viral+heat" then let me ask you the following: Would you rather have enemies immune to status effects, or would you rather have status effects rebalanced?

There needs to be another balance pass on status effects.

*edit*

I posted this out of frustration. I was doing solo steel path bounties in heart of deimos and I was slaying enemies no problem. Until the assassination target popped up and suddenly my damage output was like flicking a wet noodle at a wall.

I was running a wukong prime with nikana prime, kuva nukor and daiku with amalgam target acquired. Wuclone primes targets with the Nukor: with radiation, magnetic, viral and heat procs. Then I come in with the nikana prime with condition overload and apply devastating slash procs. The damage output on this build is very powerful. It just works on almost everything in the game.

Oh wait it doesn't work if the target is immune to status effects. So now I'm switching over to crit+corrosive. The gap in damage output is so ridiculous, I went from melting everything to hitting a wall. This doesn't stop me in my tracks at being able to do the mission or kill the target. It just forces me to play a different way. And it reduces the number of options available for how to do this content. Good content (in my books as a player) means you have many different avenues to reach the end goal. I would prefer it if there were 9 different ways to skin this cat, but status immunity reduces the options.

[Genitive]

I still don't know why they bothered with status rework if they keep on making status-immune enemies. It's a knee-jerk response to a problem the solution of which should be status effect adjustment.

[taiiat]

Enemies shouldn't ignore Game Mechanics, sure. the Boss type Enemies that are progressively having immunity to Game Mechanics removed and just resistances instead, is a good middleground that everything should go for by default, rather than creating more of the problem again when the goal is already to solve those problems as it is.

[Rawbeard]

status is not supposed to be good, or useful. crit always works, just go crit.

[DeMonkey]

31 minutes ago, Flying_Scorpion said:

Why aren't there crit immune enemies?

I would argue that Nullifiers and Artic Eximus enemies are semi crit immune, since the bubble is considered an object instead of an enemy.

That's it for my interjection, carry on.

[Flying_Scorpion]

37 minutes ago, Rawbeard said:

status is not supposed to be good, or useful. crit always works, just go crit.

That's what I'm doing now, but this is stupid. They specifically said they want to avoid making one clear obvious choice and here we are, back in square one, with one obvious choice:: Crit corrosive. If you want to promote build diversity...ugh why am I wasting my time even saying this.

 

I talk a lot about the balance issues with status effects in this video, in case anyone is interested.

 

 

[Flying_Scorpion]

15 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I would argue that Nullifiers and Artic Eximus enemies are semi crit immune, since the bubble is considered an object instead of an enemy.

That's it for my interjection, carry on.

That's a fair point. Just in case anyone misunderstands me, "why aren't there crit immune enemies" was a rhetorical question. I'm not asking because I want an answer, nor do I actually want crit immune enemies. I'm just pointing out the inconsistencies in the game rules.

[Xardis]

In short, present a problem that requires specific tools not by just banning all others.

I will just drop my opinion that for years now, we have been receiving way too many tool, so its hard for DE to make stuff for us to do by not cheesing it by us, or by them. Status is a bit too strong now, but thats not a good reason to just make enemies immune to it.

[Flying_Scorpion]

4 minutes ago, Xardis said:

In short, present a problem that requires specific tools not by just banning all others.

Yes, exactly.
 

 

4 minutes ago, Xardis said:

Status is a bit too strong now, but thats not a good reason to just make enemies immune to it.

I'm not sure if I agree with you (you could be right, I don't know for sure), but I will say that when they buffed status effects, I felt like it was completely unecessary. I was already running status builds and at the time they said crit was king. The only reason I would pull out a crit build was if I was hunting liches, and that's because liches (and I think thralls at the time) were immune to status effects. So again, I was surprised when there was a supposed need for status effects to be buffed.

[DrakeWurrum]

I think they need to first condense the status effects we have. I thought that was the direction they'd go after testing that out in Railjack, but they seem to have forgotten about their little experiment.

The way Railjack damage types were laid out felt much more balanced. Still not ideal, but definitely WAY closer than what we currently have.

See we have this...

• Physical: Impact, Puncture, Slash
• Elemental: Heat, Electric, Cold, Toxic
• Elemental Combos: Gas, Corrosive, Magnetic, Viral, Blast, Radiation

Railjack had this:

• Physical: Ballistic, Plasma, Particle
• Elemental: Incendiary, Ionic, Frost, Chem

They got rid of the combos entirely. So had to shift the status procs around. I don't 100% agree with those status effect choices, but it still felt more balanced.

I think DE would have an easier time making every status effect relevant if they only used 7, instead of 13.

[Rawbeard]

2 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

I would argue that Nullifiers and Artic Eximus enemies are semi crit immune, since the bubble is considered an object instead of an enemy.

That's it for my interjection, carry on.

aren't they also status immune?

[keikogi]

5 minutes ago, Rawbeard said:

aren't they also status immune?

They are.

[(XBOX)ShonOfDawn]

They are made status immune because, simply put, viral is absolutely busted, while damage types such as impact, puncture, gas, magnetic (so, basically, one out of the 3 full, 4 element combo) and blast are completely, utterly worthless. I'd be absolutely in favor of vastly simplifying the system, maybe following Railjack's current set of elements, in order to give each damage type a precise and useful function, and avoid arbitrary immunities. Our current choice of 13 (15 if you count void and finisher) types is just complex for complexity's sake, and as such doesn't help either the player or the devs.

[Tiltskillet]

What are the new status immune enemies?

[Flying_Scorpion]

The floaty ballsacks, the assassination target, and (from what I've read online) the necramechs? I could be wrong, I haven't cataloged them or anything like that.

[selig_fay]

I'll just say one thing, if you have nerf statuses so that they will no longer provide much stacking damage (or will not provide stacking at all), then we'll just go back to crit weapons meta. Fire is now the only good status, because the others either have a stack limit or have a small duration. Yes, slash prok is still good, but it's not even close to as good as stacking fire prok. Slash prok got nerf (Shorter duration and deletion of the priority of physical damage.) and is now only effective as hunter ammunition and nothing else.

And I still find corrosion more enjoyable than a viral, since armor is still a bigger problem than HP. But I can use both of them, because my weapons are so tuned.

[B4HEK]

5 часов назад, Flying_Scorpion сказал:

That's what I'm doing now, but this is stupid. They specifically said they want to avoid making one clear obvious choice and here we are, back in square one, with one obvious choice:: Crit corrosive. If you want to promote build diversity...ugh why am I wasting my time even saying this.

 

I talk a lot about the balance issues with status effects in this video, in case anyone is interested.

 

 

 

The following text contains a lot of curses and is not recommended for sensitive developers.

I`ve been here since 2013, and i still can`t understand if DE wants for us to be power fantasy superheroes or just a bunch of weak babies. For example: every time something REALLY good is announced or even implemented in the game,  everyone is praising DE for making us stronger and there are very little number of someone crying about "broken balance". Next time with new patch DE nerfs the [clem] out of almost anything useful which was implemented in previous patch or even deleting the whole subject (like shadow step from naramon), people are angry and complaining, but with the time they just stops to give a [clem] about what happened. Another example: when helminth system was announced, everyone started to make some broken ability synergiens in their heads, but DE immediately warned everyone that it would be possible to inoculate only one ability from another warframe, chosen by DE. Everyone began to think that the most S#&$ty abilities would be chosen like volt`s shock and excal`s radial javelin. BUT, something unexpected happened... Rhino`s roar, valkyr`s warcry, eclipse from mirage... Everyone was so happy to knew that this abilities would be transferable, till DE pre-nerfed this abilities and said that they won`t be affected by strength of your warframe. Ok, people was angry about it, but many still chose these abilities for themselves, because everything else was just useless [clem].

Like, ok, you don`t want to implement something broken in your game to just nerf it to the ground after, right? XATA`S WHISPER COMES OUT... You know what? Everyone is complaining about inability to damage eidolon`s shield... I installed this ability inside of my excal just for laugh and you know what i found out? IT IS COMPLETELY BROKEN WHEN USED WITH EXALTED BLADE (like oneshotting enemies which aren`t immune to status effects and enemies which is immune to status, like bosses, just take 2 hits to DIE IN PAIN because damage buff is just high). So, what`s now? You would nerf the [clem] out of xata`s whisper? But didn`t you said that you don`t want to nerf things?

I think, i`ve got perfect solution for DE.

JUST STOP NERFING THINGS AND START GIVING BOOSTS TO WHAT MIGHT BE CONSIDERED "WEAK". Because, the same xata`s whisper is broken exclusively for excalibur, on the other warframes it is most likely useless. Or DE would just change the ability, taken from xaku for helminth?

Same problem with statuses, just give boosts to those that are unpopular.

In the end, most of the warframe players eventually settle on equipment that can be considered meta, until DE nerfs it, then they are looking for new meta, because wast majority of players likes the feeling of being ingame onepunchman. So, i think, if any equipment and mechanics used by players was equally powerfull, not like stug-squirtgun, then the game would have a greater variety of used equipment and builds.

But you know what? YOU ARE ONESHOTTED BY NULLIFER, WHO IS IMMUNE FOR YOUR ATTACKS, SURPRISE [CLEM]!!!

[(PSN)thegarada]

6 hours ago, Flying_Scorpion said:

They've said in the past they want to avoid making one clear obvious best choice or "mandatory" choice (which is just another way of saying they want to promote build diversity) and yet here we are in the Cambian Drift with enemies completely immune to status effects, or only immune to certain status effects like Viral. And what does that lead to? Crit+raw damage. In this case, it's crit+corrosive.

If they want to promote build diversity and have people running a variety of builds and elemental damage combinations, do the obvious thing: Nerf viral and heat, and then other status effects like corrosive, cold, etc will be more viable options (and it wouldn't hurt to remove the cap on 10x gas/electric procs either).

There needs to be another balance pass on status effects.

Ya... that annoying thing that was immune to stats. At least it is one mob, it is rare and falls relatively okayish damage from melee attacks, on level 100 (I did not do anything else but level 100). But the boss one... takes close to a minute.

The worst is Ambulus.

To be fair, I think fire, toxin and viral are fully viable. Gas, cold, puncture and impact were not. Magnetic was okay against Corpus, but toxin is better. Same with corrosive against Graineer and Corrupted, viral is better. Again, this is steel path. 

And, if your not using melee weapon on steel path and 100 bounties, GL. You will be here for a while to finish 1 mission.

 

[Hardwood]

They've created these mod and status systems where players can make their weapons 100,000x stronger than the base stats and the only way they can think to make enemies do anything other than instantly explode is a bunch of invulnerability phases and endless immunities.

I would rather they rebalanced the game to a controllable power level where top end players aren't doing 100,000x the damage of new players so that they can actually let us use the tools in the game to have fun.

[Steel_Rook]

What's dumb about this is DE are going back on their own word. With Warframe Revised, one of the big goals of Status was to remove Status immunity entirely. Kuva Liches were to be a testbed for status-vulnerable bosses with some limitations, and I thought it worked well. Yet here we are, once again fighting status-immune enemies. Well, what the hell was the point of this whole exercise if clearly nothing matters any more? Seriously, it feels like we jumped into an alternate reality for a few months at the start of 2020. A mirror universe DE attempted to address long-standing systemic issues with the game, making bold changes to core gameplay mechanics and working to finish leftover content. Then apparently Crisis on Infinite Earths happened, and we're back to our own dimension where DE are pumping out unfinished new content while ignoring long-standing issues and seemingly don't even remember they were trying to change things.

What's going on?

[Tiltskillet]

3 hours ago, Flying_Scorpion said:

The floaty ballsacks, the assassination target, and (from what I've read online) the necramechs? I could be wrong, I haven't cataloged them or anything like that.

If it's true, and not a bug of some sort, I really don't get it.  Just a few months ago they were moving away from status immune enemies, starting with Kuva Liches.  Which afaic turned out to be a substantive improvement to the game.  What happened since then?  Did they forget?  Think better of it? Decide that crit was too weak in comparison?  Did they decide  taking away  status immunity was only important on a select few VIP enemies?  Is it just miscommunication between different teams?    

[Flying_Scorpion]

56 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

If it's true, and not a bug of some sort, I really don't get it.  Just a few months ago they were moving away from status immune enemies, starting with Kuva Liches.  Which afaic turned out to be a substantive improvement to the game.  What happened since then?  Did they forget?  Think better of it? Decide that crit was too weak in comparison?  Did they decide  taking away  status immunity was only important on a select few VIP enemies?  Is it just miscommunication between different teams?    

Viral+heat absolutely shreds enemies. Rather than nerf that, they just made certain enemies that they want to be tanky be immune to it. The problem is, if you run around with a viral+heat status focused build, you'll be melting enemies like crazy and when you come across one of these status immune enemies, your damage hits the floor. So what's the solution? Switch to crit+corrosive. Then you can still melt all the trash mobs and when you come across a status immune enemy, it's not like you're hitting a wall.

[Mephane]

In principle, I wouldn't mind some enemies being resistant or immune to status. However, while that is a mere annoyance with a good hybrid weapon, some weapons are effectively status-only weapons and they become nigh useless in those scenarios. That imo is the real problem here. Either DE must dial back the status resistance and immunity, or they must buff the crit chance on any current status-only weapon so that they can be viable in a crit-only or hybrid build.

[Sahiratu]

Agreed. 

[Tiltskillet]

40 minutes ago, Flying_Scorpion said:

Viral+heat absolutely shreds enemies.

Which needs fixing anyway.  Either with nerfs or buffs plus enemy rebalancing.  

I suppose you're right that they might want to defer that whole mess a while.  But even so, status immunity is a crappy stopgap.  A decent stopgap would be resistance to the two or three status procs that are an issue.