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Potential future Helminth Issues with players


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With the new Helminth system, there poses a potential grey area for frame reworks/tweaks/changes etc. With the new system, players are going after particular frames to subsume for their certain ability at it's current working status, while removing that frame from their inventory for good until they build or buy another one, that is if they don't already have another or the prime variant.

What if a future rework changes an ability that we subsumed, into a version that some players absolutely hate (through function/mechanic or nerf) just like has been done in the past. Covering just the negative potential here. So it's like the player sacrificed a warframe to get an ability they wanted under its current function/condition, only to have it changed towards something they would no longer use, so it's like they sacrificed a Warframe (think of the time and plat and resources it took to build/buy that frame) for no reason. Obviously no one is forcing us to subsume anything, so we are at the mercy of DE's hands for future changes. Just like with rivens, you can sink time, resouces and plat only to have it nerfed into the ground and maybe to be buffed again in the future. That's the potential again here with the Helminth system and lower MR players and higher MR players need to realize what can potentially happen as a result, and not just in terms of a stat nerf but a potential future change in how the ability functions.  High MR players this is less of a stake to subsume vs low MR players with less resources and less frames to fall back on after a subsume. All players, especially low MR players need to be made aware of what they are doing besides just typing 'CONFIRM' to subsume a Warframe. Be aware of what you are doing and what can happen in the future. That aside, I love the idea. Reworks will have to be looked at more closely in the future, because an ability no longer applies to just one Warframe.  

 

 

 

Edited by (XB1)AMONGTHEWEAK
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looks at 16 frames sitting in foundry, waiting to be subsumed
why would you subsume your only copy of a warframe

Edited by Thural
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4 minutes ago, o0Despair0o said:

Meanwhile I'm still waiting for the segment to be completed.

We really need a faster foundry, man.

I agree, a quicker foundry that builds things in half the time. Maybe as an upgrade to the current one, that we would ofc probably have to build. 

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Everything can change in this game. Everything.

I won't stop playing Khora just because DE might rework her abilities some day.

I won't stop using Lato just because DE might nerf it some day.

That's just being too paranoid. People simply wouldn't play Warframe for fear of unpredictable/potential changes.

 

Edited by (PS4)Quantaminum
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Im kind of worried about this too, not about losing warframes but losing resources because this monster is needy as heck even for veterans. 

Maybe they will return resources if they nerf/change an ability? 

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4 minutes ago, (XB1)AMONGTHEWEAK said:

I agree, a quicker foundry that builds things in half the time. Maybe as an upgrade to the current one, that we would ofc probably have to build. 

You shouldn't underestimate the plat sink that rush costs are. I'm willing to bet that a lot of people paid to rush Helminth to be among the first to get it. 

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25 minutes ago, (XB1)AMONGTHEWEAK said:

  High MR players this is less of a stake to subsume vs low MR players with less resources and less frames to fall back on after a subsume

It's almost as if this system wasn't meant for low MR players. *shrugs*

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So? Honestly this should be the expected "cost" of using such a system just because a base frame is a far more important part of the game than the Helminth system as a whole.

Sure there will be eventual situations where players get burnt by it but the alternative cost is keeping a pre-existing frame in a weak or outdated state. Like if Vauban didn't get his rework yet then he would be forever stuck with Tesla and be objectively worse off because of that.

As for players potentially "wasting" a frame due to the ability they wanted getting changed that is again an expected cost of the system. As well since subsume slots are unlimited at rank 10 (assuming it still works as was disclosed on Twitter) there isn't anything forever wasted besides time. And it isn't impossible to get a duplicate copy of any frame thus should anyone subsume their only copy they can still get another or just wait for or go farm their Prime.

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14 minutes ago, (XB1)AMONGTHEWEAK said:

I agree, a quicker foundry that builds things in half the time. Maybe as an upgrade to the current one, that we would ofc probably have to build. 

DE: introduces 100% faster foundry Segment for $19.99! 

Me: SOLD!  

*the fastest purchase ever in the history of WF. 

Edited by (XB1)YoungGunn82
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4 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

I'm more concerned that DE will be -less-likely to make needed changes to abilities now.  

"Why make changes, when you the player can make your own changes, by swapping abilities"

I've kind of thought the same thing. 

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10 minutes ago, (XB1)AMONGTHEWEAK said:

"Why make changes, when you the player can make your own changes, by swapping abilities"

I've kind of thought the same thing. 

Sure, but that's only one part of it.

Will they buff  weak subsumable abilities if they can be abused in other frames' kits?

Will they nerf overly strong abilities if it will cause uproar among not just that one frame's fans, but among everyone who has subsumed it?

Will they make desirable adjustments to a weak frame's kit if there are subsumable abilities that would then make it broken?

I could go on.

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40 minutes ago, o0Despair0o said:

Meanwhile I'm still waiting for the segment to be completed.

We really need a faster foundry, man.

Weird, mine built to completion in 5 seconds.. :clem:

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It's called making a mistake. They happen all the time. I sold my frost at lvl 17 before ranking it up fully because I got the prime and I needed the slot.
I then made one to rank fully for MR, sold it again. Had to craft a third now. It's the game.

By the same margin players will regret building frames that end up getting severe nerfs to their kit. (Bladestorm ash, Polarize mag, Quake banshee, WoF Ember, to name but a few over the years I've played). They might be annoyed, but if you can't compartmentalize and be happy for the time you got the cool thing to play with, but it was kind of OP and got changed, you're frankly not mature enough to play an R-rated game imo. I disliked all those "nerfs", but I still have good memories of chilling on Berehynia whilst farming focus with a few friends.

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59 minutes ago, Thural said:

looks at 16 frames sitting in foundry, waiting to be subsumed
why would you subsume your only copy of a warframe

Speaking for myself, there's no power in this universe that would make me farm Harrow, Octavia and Nidus for a second time. I'll feed them to the Helminth and live without them until their Primes arrive.

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It’s not the end of the world. You’ll just have to build the again.

i have an ivara prime with no forma, and ivara with 4 forma that does the job just fine, so I build another ivara.

i already sold my normal ash looong ago, but I built another.

so just chillax. Ask in guild or alliance chat to help farm and all will be well, duuuude

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They would adjust the ability on the actual frame first. Then they would decide if the subsumed ability stays the same or gets a watered down version. 

And the MR requirement was going to be 15....So new players asked for this. They should make sure they farm multiple frames.

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