Universal Forma?

[Symb10nt]

So i had this idea and it may sound broken but hear me out. Universal forma would work like Aura forma but for regular Warframe slots (except Umbra mods). I'm Just so tired for being Forced to build one way. I want to be able to build Room Nuke Equinox then turn around and build Peaceful Provocation with no extra forma. Cause right not you build one way and your locked. I think this would encourage more build diversity. So please blow this up and get the devs looking cause this may help with new player experience as well.

[Marine027]

Build two frames. Forma is not as hard ot get anymore as it used to be if people are really so desperate that they need so many builds.

If any, Equinox itself should have such as unique frame due two frames in one basically but not in general.

If you play a frame you might usually play it always the same, if you want a change you forma it, if you want both, build 2 frames and forma those individual.

[Symb10nt]

9 minutes ago, Marine027 said:

Build two frames. Forma is not as hard ot get anymore as it used to be if people are really so desperate that they need so many builds.

If any, Equinox itself should have such as unique frame due two frames in one basically but not in general.

If you play a frame you might usually play it always the same, if you want a change you forma it, if you want both, build 2 frames and forma those individual.

I don't feel i should have to build 2 frame. I plvay for free and don't really have the plat for warframe slots. I want to play the game instead of sitting on trade chat all day for plat but that just me.

[Ethorin]

22 minutes ago, Symb10nt said:

for being Forced to build one way. I want to be able to build Room Nuke Equinox then turn around and build Peaceful Provocation with no extra forma. Cause right not you build one way and your locked.

I have an Ivara P right now with 0 Forma and three different builds, one for Infiltrate, one for Concentrated Arrow, and a range boosting build for Conservation.

 

My Equinox Prime only needs 2 forma for me to have both Room Nuke and Peaceful Provocation.

 

It's NOT hard to figure out a low forma flex build, you just look at what mods share similar polarities and basically ALL of the critical mods are on like,  2 polarities, soooooo.

[VoidArkhangel]

I like it, rn we have 6 build slots but I've ever seen people with more than 3 slots used (warframes) and I feel so limited when I'm building a frame cuz, usually, when I put the forma for a build the other gets messed up and I don't want to build another frame cuz either they are vaulted or I just don't want so this will be a relief.

[Marine027]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb Symb10nt:

I don't feel i should have to build 2 frame. I plvay for free and don't really have the plat for warframe slots. I want to play the game instead of sitting on trade chat all day for plat but that just me.

Same way you choose to keep cetain frames and weapons due slots same is it here if you want this variety. Simple as it is, also ,why you think that, if they make such forma, it would be farmable? Look at Umbra Forma or Aura and Stance Forma right now, you still would be cheaper and easeir to buy it aswell, so a slot won't hurt also.

No one asks you to trade all day, just sell something quick and undercut, sell a Syndicat weapon or whatever trading is not as hard as peopel make it be. No one forces you also to make thiis many builds, that is your own decision, so you can't blame the game for it.

[Talinthis]

wouldnt be broken at all, having to forma every time you want to change your build to something else either due to new mods or a nerf of something is simply an extreme inconvenience. if somoene wants to eat through like 40 forma to be able to equip whatever they want anywhere they should be able to do so.

[Symb10nt]

9 minutes ago, Marine027 said:

Same way you choose to keep cetain frames and weapons due slots same is it here if you want this variety. Simple as it is, also ,why you think that, if they make such forma, it would be farmable? Look at Umbra Forma or Aura and Stance Forma right now, you still would be cheaper and easeir to buy it aswell, so a slot won't hurt also.

No one asks you to trade all day, just sell something quick and undercut, sell a Syndicat weapon or whatever trading is not as hard as peopel make it be. No one forces you also to make thiis many builds, that is your own decision, so you can't blame the game for it.

Yes it would be farmable. Put it in steel path or Arbi's. Or even better just make regular forma do it and change it retroactively.The Forma system is so limiting. I dont sit on trade chat all day but trade chat is the only way free players make plat. Last i checked trade chat is like runescape before G.E you have to post multiple times so people see what your selling.

[Marine027]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb Symb10nt:

Yes it would be farmable. Put it in steel path or Arbi's. Or even better just make regular forma do it and change it retroactively.The Forma system is so limiting. I dont sit on trade chat all day but trade chat is the only way free players make plat. Last i checked trade chat is like runescape before G.E you have to post multiple times so people see what your selling.

Or use market and look who wants something you sell and sell it directly. You only want slots after all, not a whole warframe pack. That plat difference is not much then.

[Wearbe]

How about, instead of a universal forma, we have a mechanic that allows us to unlock polarities... so you could forma the same slot 4 times and then have access, anytime, to the 4 polarities you put on that slot?

[Berzerkules]

20 minutes ago, Ethorin said:

I have an Ivara P right now with 0 Forma and three different builds, one for Infiltrate, one for Concentrated Arrow, and a range boosting build for Conservation.

 

My Equinox Prime only needs 2 forma for me to have both Room Nuke and Peaceful Provocation.

 

It's NOT hard to figure out a low forma flex build, you just look at what mods share similar polarities and basically ALL of the critical mods are on like,  2 polarities, soooooo.

Just because you wouldn't use and don't need universal forma does not mean that others would not appreciate the QoL improvement. 

We already have a universal forma for aura slots so it's not unprecedented.

I put aura forma on every single prime frame and all of th non-primes I play regularly. I also add about 3-4 regular forma. There are several frames that I have duplicates for because I can't work around mismatching polarities. We have the option to buy up to 3 extra config slots on frames but we can't fully utilize them since all configs share the same polarities. I would gladly pay the 50p price of aura forma for a universal forma. 

DE would make money and players would be happy. It's a win win situation. I don't know how anyone could be against the idea. 

[Berzerkules]

5 minutes ago, Wearbe said:

How about, instead of a universal forma, we have a mechanic that allows us to unlock polarities... so you could forma the same slot 4 times and then have access, anytime, to the 4 polarities you put on that slot?

I see this suggested a lot and the more I see it the less I like it. It's essentially the exact same thing as universal forma but with more steps. I'd rather forma a frame 4-5 times and fit all polarities in those slots. 

It's not a completely bad idea though. If you knew you only needed a couple different polarities in specific slots to fit your builds It would be beneficial to just forma the same slot a couple times instead of using universal forma. I'd still just drop the plat on universal forma for every slot for the convenience though. In a perfect world both would be an option but if I had a choice I'd take universal forma. 

[Ethorin]

14 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

DE would make money and players would be happy. It's a win win situation. I don't know how anyone could be against the idea.

Constraints create fun. My own experience is that there tends to be a very narrow band of constraint loosening where fun increases, and basically the instant you leave it the fun just goes away.

15 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

We already have a universal forma for aura slots so it's not unprecedented.

Aura's are a VERY weird case, both because they increase capacity rather than costing capacity, but also because a bunch of Aura's are basically pure QoL and a bunch of the ones that are important are VERY important in specific cases(for instance, a group using a carefully calculated Corrosive Projection set up for armor stripping that isn't QUITE complete for Eidolon's to maximize damage), but otherwise you want an entirely different aura, whether that's because you want the higher cap from Steel Charge or the passive heal from Rejuvenation. All three of these aura's have different polarities and one slot.

And of course, there's the KEY difference, Aura Mods only HAVE one slot. The flexibility from an Aura Forma is vastly more valuable than the minor flex increase from a generic Universal Forma. If you wanted an Exilus Forma, eh, I wouldn't really have any major objections. But a General Universal Forma is just a stripping of one of the more interesting constraints we have in Warframe for a minimal gain in flex.

22 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

We have the option to buy up to 3 extra config slots on frames but we can't fully utilize them since all configs share the same polarities.

...I can't think of a single frame I'd actually have more than three builds I used often enough to use a config for.

[Berzerkules]

Just now, Ethorin said:

..I can't think of a single frame I'd actually have more than three builds I used often enough to use a config for.

 

21 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

Just because you wouldn't use and don't need universal forma does not mean that others would not appreciate the QoL improvement. 

 

[Ethorin]

34 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

Just because you wouldn't use and don't need universal forma does not mean that others would not appreciate the QoL improvement. 

Ok, present me with a frame you'd actually use at least 4 distinct builds on regularly. With at least the build ideas.

Btw, they'd better be VERY different or I'll have a way to achieve the goal without a universal forma. Four different Augments does not Universal Forma require.

 

[Symb10nt]

6 minutes ago, Ethorin said:

Ok, present me with a frame you'd actually use at least 4 distinct builds on regularly. With at least the build ideas.

Btw, they'd better be VERY different or I'll have a way to achieve the goal without a universal forma. Four different Augments does not Universal Forma require.

 

Frost Has a bubble Build
Avalanche build for CC
Avalanche at 250% Power strength for 100% armor strip
A buffing build for his 1 augment

[Ethorin]

Just now, Symb10nt said:

Frost Has a bubble Build
Avalanche build for CC
Avalanche at 250% Power strength for 100% armor strip
A buffing build for his 1 augment

1. Power and Armor, with Range

2. Range and Possibly Duration

3. Obviously Power, probably some range

4. Power and Range

Vazarin(D) and Madurai(V) polarities are critical for all of these, some use for Naramon(Bar)... bet you could fit all four builds in with 2 Vazarin, a Madurai, and a Naramon Frost. If you REALLY wanted to use the Umbral mods things would get tough for the Avalanche build, but that would almost certainly be true with Universal Forma as well.

 

Warframe's are not weapons, you don't have elemental mods that need to be in certain orders and have three different polarities. It's not THAT hard to fit a bunch of builds onto one polarity set. Occasionally you can't get QUITE the perfectly optimized build for every possible purpose onto one polarity set, but that usually happens because you forma'd where you didn't actually need to.

 

Needing to spend a bit of time actually thinking about what each build wants to do and the ways you have to achieve those things and what polarities will be shared across the greatest amount of capacity is part of the fun.

[Vyra]

2 hours ago, Symb10nt said:

So i had this idea and it may sound broken but hear me out. Universal forma would work like Aura forma but for regular Warframe slots (except Umbra mods). I'm Just so tired for being Forced to build one way. I want to be able to build Room Nuke Equinox then turn around and build Peaceful Provocation with no extra forma. Cause right not you build one way and your locked. I think this would encourage more build diversity. So please blow this up and get the devs looking cause this may help with new player experience as well.

i agree with this!

[Wiz3rd]

1 hour ago, Wearbe said:

How about, instead of a universal forma, we have a mechanic that allows us to unlock polarities... so you could forma the same slot 4 times and then have access, anytime, to the 4 polarities you put on that slot?

I've been saying this forever.
This idea would satisfy my need for needless grind.

[Berzerkules]

1 minute ago, Ethorin said:

Ok, present me with a frame you'd actually use at least 4 distinct builds on regularly. With at least the build ideas.

Btw, they'd better be VERY different or I'll have a way to achieve the goal without a universal forma. Four different Augments does not Universal Forma require.

 

Wisp is the perfect candidate for Universal Forma. She has an amazingly versatile kit and one trash ability that's just asking for a subsume ability.  

Basic Breach Surge Wisp - Ensnare/Larva work well with this mod config for some CC and grouping in solo/group endurance. You could also add Seeking Shuriken for some armor strip. Corroding Barrage could also be an option for even more cc, 80% armor reduction and an extra status for condition overload. 4 builds there

Breach Surge with a lot of range - Here you could add Rest & Rage where you could use to help friends Adaro but have a speed/health mote to make it safer and faster. Resonator/Shooting Gallery/Creeping Terrify/Spell Blind builds could also work well here. 5 builds there

Max strength/duration Wisp - You could run Pillage for armor strip and shield regen or Roar for damage buff on a similar mod config. Shock Trooper/Smite Infusion augments would also be a good option here for eidolon hunts or just more damage for regular missions. 4 Builds there

That's 13 builds for wisp that would require 3 different sets of polarities. You would still need 2 Wisps to fit most of these but that's still better than 3. I would play each and every single one of them. 

 

Just because you wouldn't use and don't need universal forma does not mean that others would not appreciate the QoL improvement.

You wouldn't have to universal forma. I would though. I see no reason to be against something that would have no affect on your actual game play. It would be a huge benefit to people like myself though. I just don't understand why people are so against universal forma It's not going to break the game it would just same some people the time and effort of having multiple frames for different builds. If the plat cost of universal forma was the similar to the plat cost of extra warframe slots, potatoes, adapters and regular forma nothing would change except the time spent reformaing the same frame over and over and over..........

[Ethorin]

12 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

It's not going to break the game

It may or may not cause game breaking bugs, it may or may not divert dev attention from other things that are more interesting.

13 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

That's 13 builds for wisp that would require 3 different sets of polarities. You would still need 2 Wisps to fit most of these but that's still better than 3. I would play each and every single one of them. 

Not really. Again, the big heavyweights in capacity generally share polarities, Duration, Power, and Range, between them, all have mods in each of Vazarin, Naramon, Madurai. The only reason you'd need three distinct polarity set ups for those "13 builds"(most of which wouldn't actually BE different mod set ups), would be if you over forma'd or had some nonexistent reason to care about the specific order of the mods.

[Symb10nt]

29 minutes ago, Ethorin said:

 reason to care about the specific order of the mods.

Why do you keep bringing this up you can move polarities around for free this is a non-point.

[Ethorin]

1 minute ago, Symb10nt said:

Why do you keep bringing this up you can move polarities around for free this is a non-point.

Because the only other reason I can think of that you'd actually need to reforma for a new build is if you went and stuck three of the same polarities on a build. And even then you should only need one reforma'ing.

[Berzerkules]

55 minutes ago, Ethorin said:

Needing to spend a bit of time actually thinking about what each build wants to do and the ways you have to achieve those things and what polarities will be shared across the greatest amount of capacity is part of the fun.

What you consider fun is not the same as everyone for everyone else. Not being able to fit builds on weapons/frames is an annoying inconvenience to me. The only option is to just build multiple copies of the same item. 

Just now, Ethorin said:

It may or may not cause game breaking bugs, it may or may not divert dev attention from other things that are more interesting.

Again, what is interesting to you is not the same for me. 

5 minutes ago, Ethorin said:

Not really. Again, the big heavyweights in capacity generally share polarities, Duration, Power, and Range, between them, all have mods in each of Vazarin, Naramon, Madurai. The only reason you'd need three distinct polarity set ups for those "13 builds"(most of which wouldn't actually BE different mod set ups), would be if you over forma'd or had some nonexistent reason to care about the specific order of the mods.

I separated them into 3 different categories that that require different quantities of D, V and - polarities. They can't all fit on the same frame. I've tried and it does not work. It's hard to fit even 2 of those 3 categories onto the same frame.  

When you're working with an Umbral mod and Primed mods capacity is limited. You need to forma more than a couple times to fit everything. There are mods  like Rolling Guard, Natural Talent, Primed Sure Footed, Primed Flow and an enemy radar mod that I consider mandatory on some builds. That's half the mod capacity on just utility mods, I still have to fit in strength, range, duration and efficiency. There isn't much wiggle room. Build diversity is severely limited, the helminth system compounds this issue. 

It really depends on the content you run I guess. I could take a random frame/weapons with no potato/forma, auto install mods and run pretty much everything in the game. That's not fun to me though. I'd rather min/max my loadouts and run endless missions for a few hours with some people that also enjoy endurance runs. For myself and the people I play with, universal forma would be a huge QoL improvement. It might not be for you and you wouldn't have to use it. 

I think we just play the game differently and aren't going to agree on this. That's not a bad thing. You can enjoy the game your way and I can do my thing. There is no reason to argue against something that will not change the way you play the game or affect you in any way. 

[Symb10nt]

17 minutes ago, Ethorin said:

Because the only other reason I can think of that you'd actually need to reforma for a new build is if you went and stuck three of the same polarities on a build. And even then you should only need one reforma'ing.

But you are only thinking in the here and now. This would allow DE to create Augments that could change an ability completly. Frost 4 could have and augment made to make it a channeled ability like Maim on Equinox. Which would need duration and Eff and range instead of Range and Power