Loki: falling to the wayside. Reworks needed

[BrazilianJoe]

Loki's abilities are outdone at every corner currently. 

Decoy is outdated, outdone by other slot 1 abilities,Instantly dies on high level enemies, does no damage. Compare with Celestial Twin for example.

Ivara has the best invisibility. 

Switch Teleport is too fiddly to reliably use, situational on Disruptions at best. 

Radial Disarm is only moderately useful, too expensive, and the damage to infested is just a gimmick.

It is also made of tissue paper. 

Its passive (10x wall latch time) does not do much in warframe's playstyle. It is the fastest frame sprint speed, but it does not do him favors as it does not have a sprint ability.

In short, for every thing it can do, there is another frame that can do better. 

How I would like to see him buffed while keeping his flavor:

This is Loki, the trickster, the deceiver.

Whether you prefer to go into battle alone or with a team, Tenno, Loki will adapt to any style.

PASSIVE: 

Replace with:

For every enemy affected by an ability (any frame), he gets a small boost to sprint speed, wall latch time, bullet jump, dodge speed. Lasts for 10 seconds after the ability expires. Can stack up to [warframe level] times. 

DECOY - scale HP with enemy level.

Give short invulnerability window upon casting that absorbs incoming damage for extra HP. 

CLICK casts a classic Loki Decoy. HOLD casts a decoy that belongs to the enemy faction and behaves differently.

CLICK - Loki Decoy. Tenno Decoy shots would do rainbow preprocs - the next time the enemy suffers damage, it will take additional damage with a guaranteed status proc it is not already suffering from.

HOLD - Enemy Decoy - the main enemy faction (the one that owns the tileset), Would de-aggro and unalert enemies when cast and every few seconds (shouts an "OK, OK" calm order or something) after. Spawns with the look of a random VIP enemy, or a decoy of the player's Lich ally. Enemy Decoy would shoot the closest player that is not invisible from the POV of the decoy. Instead of doing damage, it would add guaranteed preproc to the player's attacks: a guaranteed status proc with extra damage. The guaranteed preproc stacks, and bonus damage scales with power strength %.

INVISIBILITY/MASQUERADE - Buff by virtue of removing the muffled sound. Loki invisibility will also conceal its smell. Wall Latch time increases by 10x while invisible or masqueraded. If ability expires, this extra time lasts until Loki touches the ground. Passive bonuses last while ability is active (timers stop), passive expiry timers only resume counting after invisibility expires.

Holding the button would cast or recast a MASQUERADE - Loki would not be invisible - instead, it would look like a grunt from the enemy faction. It would not trigger enemy defenses, like lasers and cameras. In this mode, Loki cannot cause any damage or bump into enemies, or the effect will be dispelled.

Can be recast while active, but increases casting cost every time it is recast while active. Casting cost resets to default once it expires. Color shader be changed from shades of vomit to: Instead, resources would sparkle and NPCs would scintillate auras showing whether they are alerted or not, and colors according to whether they are enemy, neutral or ally.

SWITCH TELEPORT - In additional to current mechanics: Loki would steal 100 armor, 100 shield and 100 health from the enemy permanently, and gain the same amount of max and effective health. If the enemy lacks one of these traits, it takes more from the traits the enemy has. Each stack of Loki's buff lasts for 30 seconds, affected by duration. Stacks 1 time per 25% power strength. After it reaches the cap, can still be used to heal and replenish shields, but not gain additional stacks.

RADIAL DISARM - Takes away enemy guns, 20% max health, armor, shields and damage. Also dispels all flying enemy projectiles in range. Remove damage to infested effect. Add status preprocs all enemies with power strength / 20 preprocs, each dealing 20% of the incoming damage that triggers it (scales with power strength).

 

 

 

[Gabbynaru]

26 minutes ago, BrazilianJoe said:

Ivara has the best invisibility. 

Not if you like actually moving faster than a grandma, she doesn't.

[BrazilianJoe]

1 minute ago, Gabbynaru said:

Not if you like actually moving faster than a grandma, she doesn't.

I understand what you say, You can mitigate most of the speed penalty. Ivara wins over Loki as a stealth frame - much to my chagrin, I love Loki boy

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

2 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Not if you like actually moving faster than a grandma, she doesn't.

Agreed, Octavia has the best invisibility. Longest possible duration even before taking into consideration the ability to recast while active, as long as nearly 2 minutes long from a single cast.

 

AND a movement speed buff that makes her far faster while invisible than even the highest sprint speed boosted Loki.

[Leqesai]

Just now, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

Agreed, Octavia has the best invisibility. Longest possible duration even before taking into consideration the ability to recast while active, as long as nearly 2 minutes long from a singe cast.

 

True. I personally dislike the spamming crouch thing though.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

1 minute ago, Leqesai said:

True. I personally dislike the spamming crouch thing though.

Can be annoying true, but can be done on the move even while midair.

[Gabbynaru]

7 minutes ago, BrazilianJoe said:

I understand what you say, You can mitigate most of the speed penalty. Ivara wins over Loki as a stealth frame - much to my chagrin, I love Loki boy

 

6 minutes ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

Agreed, Octavia has the best invisibility. Longest possible duration even before taking into consideration the ability to recast while active, as long as nearly 2 minutes long from a single cast.

 

AND a movement speed buff that makes her far faster while invisible than even the highest sprint speed boosted Loki.

Gotta agree to disagree on that one. I still think Loki has the best invisibility. Ivara's makes you move slowly, and fast movement is a very frail beast, Octavia has that finicky time it with the beat thing that I can never get right, Ash has less duration, Wisp is very limited, Shade is stupid, Kavat is stupider. So thanks to how easy it is to use and it's decent duration, I think Loki is the winner on this one. His has no serious downsides, the more powerful ones are also countered by downsides that make them less desirable in my opinion.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

you know whats sad 

the knaive loki specter has better abilities then the default loki 

[BrazilianJoe]

Be it Octavia or Ivara, They still outperform Loki, and Loki becomes deaf and blind when invisible. No one can see him, but he can't see or hear S#&$. 

Exhibit A:

On removing the vision distortion: just look how awesome the Cambian Drift looks while invisible: 

 

[BrazilianJoe]

Exhibit B:

[BrazilianJoe]

Whether you prefer this or that flavor of invisibility, the complete kit has fallen behind as time progressed, that is the major point. 

[(PSN)narutoStar24]

My changes:

Passive - each enemies affected gives loki 10% weapon damage.

1st - No health, just duration. Give the clone a 100% status gun (like a ignis) so it can proc status. (Low damage as it's more for condition overload).

2nd - none

3rd - added functionality loki can swap two other objects/people. Should also let loki target crates in base ability.

4th - no damage, defense reduction 50%.

[(XBOX)SirMilkfiend]

Loki has the best invisibility except for maybe Wisp because he can perform actions while cloaked. Swap out Radial Disarm for Rest on a duration build and he can do everything Ivara can but better. That said I had some ideas too for a minor Loki rework.

Decoy: produce 3 holographic illusions. Tap to have them stationary - Hold so they move. Above each of their heads is an indicator for a buff Loki can grab by Switch Teleporting with them.

Shroud buff -- if invisibility is active grabbing this buff refreshes and adds more seconds equal to the original duration. Cant exceed 1.5× the original duration of Invisibility.

Damage Reflection buff -- grabbing this buff causes decoys to reflect damage towards them and apply a multiplier to it

Holographic Dance buff -- Loki becomes a decoy gaining the holographic skin on himself along with maximum aggro and ammo efficiency on weapons. The original Loki body is cloaked.

 

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

Loki with baruuk lull infused instead of decoy is perfect for me to do stealth scans and stealth kills.

Yes it doesn't replace a rework, but the only thing I'd do is changing decoy health to either be pure duration or scale with ennemy level, and his need some qol to ease its use (like wisp does)

[Elyann]

On 2020-09-01 at 1:45 AM, BrazilianJoe said:

Loki's abilities are outdone at every corner currently. 

Decoy is outdated, outdone by other slot 1 abilities,Instantly dies on high level enemies, does no damage. Compare with Celestial Twin for example.

Ivara has the best invisibility. 

Switch Teleport is too fiddly to reliably use, situational on Disruptions at best. 

Radial Disarm is only moderately useful, too expensive, and the damage to infested is just a gimmick.

It is also made of tissue paper. 

Its passive (10x wall latch time) does not do much in warframe's playstyle. It is the fastest frame sprint speed, but it does not do him favors as it does not have a sprint ability.

In short, for every thing it can do, there is another frame that can do better. 

How I would like to see him buffed while keeping his flavor:

This is Loki, the trickster, the deceiver.

Whether you prefer to go into battle alone or with a team, Tenno, Loki will adapt to any style.

PASSIVE: 

Replace with:

For every enemy affected by an ability (any frame), he gets a small boost to sprint speed, wall latch time, bullet jump, dodge speed. Lasts for 10 seconds after the ability expires. Can stack up to [warframe level] times. 

DECOY - scale HP with enemy level.

Give short invulnerability window upon casting that absorbs incoming damage for extra HP. 

CLICK casts a classic Loki Decoy. HOLD casts a decoy that belongs to the enemy faction and behaves differently.

CLICK - Loki Decoy. Tenno Decoy shots would do rainbow preprocs - the next time the enemy suffers damage, it will take additional damage with a guaranteed status proc it is not already suffering from.

HOLD - Enemy Decoy - the main enemy faction (the one that owns the tileset), Would de-aggro and unalert enemies when cast and every few seconds (shouts an "OK, OK" calm order or something) after. Spawns with the look of a random VIP enemy, or a decoy of the player's Lich ally. Enemy Decoy would shoot the closest player that is not invisible from the POV of the decoy. Instead of doing damage, it would add guaranteed preproc to the player's attacks: a guaranteed status proc with extra damage. The guaranteed preproc stacks, and bonus damage scales with power strength %.

INVISIBILITY/MASQUERADE - Buff by virtue of removing the muffled sound. Loki invisibility will also conceal its smell. Wall Latch time increases by 10x while invisible or masqueraded. If ability expires, this extra time lasts until Loki touches the ground. Passive bonuses last while ability is active (timers stop), passive expiry timers only resume counting after invisibility expires.

Holding the button would cast or recast a MASQUERADE - Loki would not be invisible - instead, it would look like a grunt from the enemy faction. It would not trigger enemy defenses, like lasers and cameras. In this mode, Loki cannot cause any damage or bump into enemies, or the effect will be dispelled.

Can be recast while active, but increases casting cost every time it is recast while active. Casting cost resets to default once it expires. Color shader be changed from shades of vomit to: Instead, resources would sparkle and NPCs would scintillate auras showing whether they are alerted or not, and colors according to whether they are enemy, neutral or ally.

SWITCH TELEPORT - In additional to current mechanics: Loki would steal 100 armor, 100 shield and 100 health from the enemy permanently, and gain the same amount of max and effective health. If the enemy lacks one of these traits, it takes more from the traits the enemy has. Each stack of Loki's buff lasts for 30 seconds, affected by duration. Stacks 1 time per 25% power strength. After it reaches the cap, can still be used to heal and replenish shields, but not gain additional stacks.

RADIAL DISARM - Takes away enemy guns, 20% max health, armor, shields and damage. Also dispels all flying enemy projectiles in range. Remove damage to infested effect. Add status preprocs all enemies with power strength / 20 preprocs, each dealing 20% of the incoming damage that triggers it (scales with power strength).

 

 

 

Loki is fine . I am tired of repeating it .

He is currently one of the best frames and if you believe otherwise you are just not playing him correctly .

He is a stealth based frame . There are only two types of Loki : an invisible one and the one in The Second Dream cutscene . Keep being stealthy , he is not made for fighting multiple opponents while staying visible and even when invisible combat is not his forte .
Loki is undoubtedly the king of any spy mission and he does a very good job in sabotage , survival , rescue , capture and so on . He's one of the most versatile frames you can have .

Decoy .
This ability is actually hella useful if you know how to take advantage of it as it allows you to switch teleport with your decoy at any given moment . Yes , even through spy missions lasers . You can also use it to get out from some very dangerous situations by switching place with your freshly deployed decoy .

Invisibility . 
If you think Ivara has the best invisibility you must definitely not be playing Loki correctly . With 199% duration , 175% efficiency and energy syphon you have a 100% uptime 24 seconds invisibility . No , you don't need more than 24 seconds already and as I said you have a 100% uptime which means you will generate more energy than it consumes from the moment you activate it to the moment the ability ends , allowing you to recast it again , no zenurik needed , no arcane energize as this is a very old build from 2015...and surprise , it still works wonders , you move fast ( which you can not do on Ivara ) and it allows you to pretty much cheese almost everything . Now imagine how good it would be if optimized by using new mods , zenurik or arcanes , you probably wouldn't even need so much efficiency anymore or energy syphon...but I digress , this ability is flawless .

Switch Teleport .
You can switch teleport with anyone , you can rescue your allies , you can bypass lasers , you can get yourself out of some very tricky situations , you can just use it to move even faster , ecc . Literally one of the best utility skills in the game .

Radial disarm . 
You disarm everyone within range thus making all those powerful 165 gunners and bombards be pretty much screwed , exposed to your fire and to your teammates attacks , same for those corpus dudes or anyone using a ranged weapon . If you use the augment you will also inflict a radiation proc , what more can you ask for ? 

The beauty of Loki is that all of his kit is actually useful , I consider him to be one of the best frames who've ever been developed as he not only excels at his role but he's also pretty good in almost every mission type and still a damn viable choice in all the others . 
His powers keep being useful from early up to late game which allows you to bring him to level 160+ missions and he will still just do as well as he would in a low level mission , which is pretty well in his case . 
He isn't the best at killing . He is still rather good at doing so ( by taking advantage of stealth and of your weapons ) if you want my opinion but again....so what ? You do not necessairely have to nuke everything in your path to get a mission done in warframe and in the case you have to ( extermination ) then you have 43 other warframes to pick from . 



Now , this is a very old build and I am mostly posting it as a base reference of how you want to build Loki , feel free to tweak it to your liking and to optimize it even further . 
You will not need strength as Loki's kit isn't really made for killing , you will only need range for disarm , duration for your invisibility and efficiency so you can cast and recast everything whenever you need . You can swap vitality for disarm's augment or for anything else you may consider to be useful if you feel safe enough without it ( you'll be invisible after all ) though I would recommend using it at first so you can test your ground .
Can replace energy syphon with corrosive projection if you can find a way to get more energy ( such as by using arcane energize or other more recent mods ) , pick the exilus and arcanes you prefer , they are not a must at all but if you have them they will obviously be a nice addition . 

His kit is fine and has definitely aged well .
Could it use a few buffs ? Maybe . But there's a ton more frames I deem more in need of a rework than Loki .

 

[Solarsyphon]

3 hours ago, Elyann said:

Loki is fine . I am tired of repeating it .

He is currently one of the best frames and if you believe otherwise you are just not playing him correctly .

He is a stealth based frame . There are only two types of Loki : an invisible one and the one in The Second Dream cutscene . Keep being stealthy , he is not made for fighting multiple opponents while staying visible and even when invisible combat is not his forte .
Loki is undoubtedly the king of any spy mission and he does a very good job in sabotage , survival , rescue , capture and so on . He's one of the most versatile frames you can have .

Decoy .
This ability is actually hella useful if you know how to take advantage of it as it allows you to switch teleport with your decoy at any given moment . Yes , even through spy missions lasers . You can also use it to get out from some very dangerous situations by switching place with your freshly deployed decoy .

Invisibility . 
If you think Ivara has the best invisibility you must definitely not be playing Loki correctly . With 199% duration , 175% efficiency and energy syphon you have a 100% uptime 24 seconds invisibility . No , you don't need more than 24 seconds already and as I said you have a 100% uptime which means you will generate more energy than it consumes from the moment you activate it to the moment the ability ends , allowing you to recast it again , no zenurik needed , no arcane energize as this is a very old build from 2015...and surprise , it still works wonders , you move fast ( which you can not do on Ivara ) and it allows you to pretty much cheese almost everything . Now imagine how good it would be if optimized by using new mods , zenurik or arcanes , you probably wouldn't even need so much efficiency anymore or energy syphon...but I digress , this ability is flawless .

Switch Teleport .
You can switch teleport with anyone , you can rescue your allies , you can bypass lasers , you can get yourself out of some very tricky situations , you can just use it to move even faster , ecc . Literally one of the best utility skills in the game .

Radial disarm . 
You disarm everyone within range thus making all those powerful 165 gunners and bombards be pretty much screwed , exposed to your fire and to your teammates attacks , same for those corpus dudes or anyone using a ranged weapon . If you use the augment you will also inflict a radiation proc , what more can you ask for ? 

The beauty of Loki is that all of his kit is actually useful , I consider him to be one of the best frames who've ever been developed as he not only excels at his role but he's also pretty good in almost every mission type and still a damn viable choice in all the others . 
His powers keep being useful from early up to late game which allows you to bring him to level 160+ missions and he will still just do as well as he would in a low level mission , which is pretty well in his case . 
He isn't the best at killing . He is still rather good at doing so ( by taking advantage of stealth and of your weapons ) if you want my opinion but again....so what ? You do not necessairely have to nuke everything in your path to get a mission done in warframe and in the case you have to ( extermination ) then you have 43 other warframes to pick from . 



Now , this is a very old build and I am mostly posting it as a base reference of how you want to build Loki , feel free to tweak it to your liking and to optimize it even further . 
You will not need strength as Loki's kit isn't really made for killing , you will only need range for disarm , duration for your invisibility and efficiency so you can cast and recast everything whenever you need . You can swap vitality for disarm's augment or for anything else you may consider to be useful if you feel safe enough without it ( you'll be invisible after all ) though I would recommend using it at first so you can test your ground .
Can replace energy syphon with corrosive projection if you can find a way to get more energy ( such as by using arcane energize or other more recent mods ) , pick the exilus and arcanes you prefer , they are not a must at all but if you have them they will obviously be a nice addition . 

His kit is fine and has definitely aged well .
Could it use a few buffs ? Maybe . But there's a ton more frames I deem more in need of a rework than Loki .

 

I have some disgreements with this but first the positives. I agree his invis is fine it is simple dumb consistent invis and there is nothing wrong with that except maybe it is a bit boring. 

Firstly switch teleport. It can do everything you say but does so very clunkily to the point that is simply isn't worth being used that way and so rarely is. 

• Mobility - Most rooms are small and can be covered in a couple seconds where as  using switch teleport requires fortuitous enemy placements or very rapid casting of two abilities while breaking momentum.  Even in large areas like open world the aiming becomes more difficult over distance hindering its usefulness and making it less compelling than say an arch wing.  This is by far the most common function for both decoy and switch teleport and its clunky especially compared to a comparable situation will o'wisp.  It needs to be streamlined for this function I think it should have an input dedicated to switching with decoy or just make it so you can teleport to any spot and leave behind a decoy. 
   
• Rescuing allies-  Targetting allies also doesnt close the distance between you so using it for reviving is ineffective.  Hence only really the augmented version comes into play here.  The problem then is allies do not like being teleported most of the time and targetting allies with this ability is a pain due to enemies getting in the way. It could similarly use a dedicated input for this  and or some altered functionality with allies such as teleporting to them or teleporting  a downed ally to you. 

Put simply these functions are very niche and clunky to the point they barely seem intentional in the ability and are rarely the intention of the player. Theyre clunky nature also fails to fit in with the faster paced game play of modern warframe. 

Secondly decoy. Its ok in theory but typically  requires disarm and very limited placement to act as cc. Subsequently its main use is switch teleport and even that is rare.  There is also a general design floor of this era of abilities that they require a fair bit of spamming to remain active at high levels. Frost has a similar issue with his snow globe but its worse with decoy because it is aimed.

Finally radial disarm
it has lost its consistency over time like all aoes have with the increased prominence of ability immune enemies and nullifiers. Its a slightly worse for disarm given that it already barely affect infested and simply isnt powerful enough for it to feel like it is worth engaging in the nullifier mechanic with it.  Additionally much like invisibility it is this dumb simple aoe disarm that lacks allot of the engaging elements of modern ability design making it boring.   

[BrazilianJoe]

TL;DR

Loki has its best skill being semi-permanent invisibility with occasional recasts.

Decoy dies instantly on high level.

Switch Teleport is too fiddly, fast gameplay makes it of little use, does not improve mobility speed, kills momentum.

Radial Disarm - enemy immunity makes it inconsistent, gimmicky damage against infested only, deleting enemies is fast enough to make recasting meh.

A little polish on each skill would do it wonders. 

 

[Buttaface]

9 hours ago, Elyann said:

Loki is fine . I am tired of repeating it .

He is currently one of the best frames and if you believe otherwise you are just not playing him correctly .

He is a stealth based frame . There are only two types of Loki : an invisible one and the one in The Second Dream cutscene . Keep being stealthy , he is not made for fighting multiple opponents while staying visible and even when invisible combat is not his forte .
Loki is undoubtedly the king of any spy mission and he does a very good job in sabotage , survival , rescue , capture and so on . He's one of the most versatile frames you can have .

Decoy .
This ability is actually hella useful if you know how to take advantage of it as it allows you to switch teleport with your decoy at any given moment . Yes , even through spy missions lasers . You can also use it to get out from some very dangerous situations by switching place with your freshly deployed decoy .

Invisibility . 
If you think Ivara has the best invisibility you must definitely not be playing Loki correctly . With 199% duration , 175% efficiency and energy syphon you have a 100% uptime 24 seconds invisibility . No , you don't need more than 24 seconds already and as I said you have a 100% uptime which means you will generate more energy than it consumes from the moment you activate it to the moment the ability ends , allowing you to recast it again , no zenurik needed , no arcane energize as this is a very old build from 2015...and surprise , it still works wonders , you move fast ( which you can not do on Ivara ) and it allows you to pretty much cheese almost everything . Now imagine how good it would be if optimized by using new mods , zenurik or arcanes , you probably wouldn't even need so much efficiency anymore or energy syphon...but I digress , this ability is flawless .

Switch Teleport .
You can switch teleport with anyone , you can rescue your allies , you can bypass lasers , you can get yourself out of some very tricky situations , you can just use it to move even faster , ecc . Literally one of the best utility skills in the game .

Radial disarm . 
You disarm everyone within range thus making all those powerful 165 gunners and bombards be pretty much screwed , exposed to your fire and to your teammates attacks , same for those corpus dudes or anyone using a ranged weapon . If you use the augment you will also inflict a radiation proc , what more can you ask for ? 

The beauty of Loki is that all of his kit is actually useful , I consider him to be one of the best frames who've ever been developed as he not only excels at his role but he's also pretty good in almost every mission type and still a damn viable choice in all the others . 
His powers keep being useful from early up to late game which allows you to bring him to level 160+ missions and he will still just do as well as he would in a low level mission , which is pretty well in his case . 
He isn't the best at killing . He is still rather good at doing so ( by taking advantage of stealth and of your weapons ) if you want my opinion but again....so what ? You do not necessairely have to nuke everything in your path to get a mission done in warframe and in the case you have to ( extermination ) then you have 43 other warframes to pick from . 



Now , this is a very old build and I am mostly posting it as a base reference of how you want to build Loki , feel free to tweak it to your liking and to optimize it even further . 
You will not need strength as Loki's kit isn't really made for killing , you will only need range for disarm , duration for your invisibility and efficiency so you can cast and recast everything whenever you need . You can swap vitality for disarm's augment or for anything else you may consider to be useful if you feel safe enough without it ( you'll be invisible after all ) though I would recommend using it at first so you can test your ground .
Can replace energy syphon with corrosive projection if you can find a way to get more energy ( such as by using arcane energize or other more recent mods ) , pick the exilus and arcanes you prefer , they are not a must at all but if you have them they will obviously be a nice addition . 

His kit is fine and has definitely aged well .
Could it use a few buffs ? Maybe . But there's a ton more frames I deem more in need of a rework than Loki .

 

Yep, agree with the above and not the OP. Loki is fine, master race.

[Bakaguya-sama]

Loki is trash and im tired of repeating it.  

He's probably the worst frame in the game. With no power nor utility worth considering over other warframes.  

Decoy is useless.  

His stealth is inferior to Octavia.  That's his best ability. 

His AoE CC is middling at best. Very inconsistent. Does not work vs Infested. Maybe useful for Defense map in conjunction with Speedva but that's not saying much.   

I have Loki Prime, and there's only 2 scenario in the game that I would I bring him out: Tusk Ballista Headshot rivens, and Plague Star.    

If I need stealth, I'll use Octavia.  

Quote

Octavia has that finicky time it with the beat thing that I can never get right

Is this for real? Are you guys serious?  Do you even have Octavia?  

Anyway, Loki need a serious overhaul. Or recastable Stealth would be enough.  

[blazinvire]

I've felt bad for Loki the moment Octavia was released.
The fact that you need like 4 of your mod slots just to give Loki perma-stealth is saying something.
The fact that Loki needs perma-stealth is also saying something.

Loki's old and needs some love :(

Excalibur got his shiny new sword, Volt's got some fun zappy times and utility, and even Mag got some fun overhauls.

He's supposed to be the trickster but all he ever really seems to do is turn invisible and steal everyone's weapons.  Yay?

Like why isn't Decoy Saviour mostly built-in? (Like so many other augments >.>)
It's very icon to have the frail trickster appear to die, but keep not dying because it was his decoy all along.
Or for an enemy to turn upon their allies because surprise, it was the trickster in disguise all along!

Yet people are okay with him just being an invisible kleptomaniac with a machine gun?

[Keiyadan]

never change a running system loki does its job just fine he does not need any changes or buffs realy exept for the ones health but well i totaly can use it in its currend state

[BrazilianJoe]

Any frame can be used in its current state. BUT... 

With the color distortion in the cambian drift, it is basically blind there. That is not 'fine'. 

There is a difference between the player being 'fine' with the state of a frame, and the frame being 'good' as compared to other frames. Loki's semi-perma invisibility is his saving grace to make it tolerable. But it has been surpassed on every level. 

 

[Elyann]

On 2020-09-05 at 10:04 PM, Bakaguya-sama said:

Loki is trash and im tired of repeating it.  

He's probably the worst frame in the game. With no power nor utility worth considering over other warframes.  

Decoy is useless.  

His stealth is inferior to Octavia.  That's his best ability. 

His AoE CC is middling at best. Very inconsistent. Does not work vs Infested. Maybe useful for Defense map in conjunction with Speedva but that's not saying much.   

I have Loki Prime, and there's only 2 scenario in the game that I would I bring him out: Tusk Ballista Headshot rivens, and Plague Star.    

If I need stealth, I'll use Octavia.  

Is this for real? Are you guys serious?  Do you even have Octavia?  

Anyway, Loki need a serious overhaul. Or recastable Stealth would be enough.  

You must not possess many frames if you think he's the worst , he's far from it .

Decoy is pretty useful and while its health could scale with the level and it would be a nice change it's actually not a must .

His stealth isn't necessairely inferior to Octavia's by any means and as some people have claimed ( and yes , it's for real ) Octavia's stealth can feel a little annoying to pull off depending on the melody you are using .

His aoe doesn't work against infested ? You do realize that we have 44 frames present in game cause each of them excels at their own role and they are not all amazing at dealing with every single mission type or faction , right ? This is why I don't get it when I hear people say they "main" a frame , you are not meant to main one . You are supposed to use whatever you think will be the best at handling that specific mission and with that specific team if you are also going with friends . 
Disarm also happens to be a pretty nice cc as it disarms ( duh ) every enemy within a rather large radius ; you may argue that it's a bit old and that there's better abilities or ways to deal with enemies now but it still aged rather well compared to many other cc in the game and it still happens to be rather useful in quite a few cases ( defense being one of them as you mentioned , survival being another and so on...you keep disarming all of the dangerous foes and then clear them out with your team ) .

He doesn't need recastable stealth . As I already said you can have a 100% uptime on it , you recast it the instant it goes down...and if you don't feel safe even in that instant you go find some cover . 

[noDDy3000]

Loki doesn't need a rework, sure his decoy is meh but besides that it's fine.

His radial disarm makes him viable for almost any mission type which doesn't hamper his invisibility. Do you want a rework on loki because there is only one build that mostly everyone uses?

You know that he's got a couple other build to use that can change up your gameplay, it just that most people just stop after the basic one. I'll list a couple I use to change up his playstyle.

 

WALL LATCH LOKI

Aerodynamic / stealth drift / narrow minded / (primed) flow / patagium / (primed) continuity / vitality / augur message / aero vantage / free slot

you can switch out vitality for something else as it's not really needed but it comes in handy if you forget to cast invisibility, as for the free slot I usually just throw in peculiar growth just because.

 

arcanes - arachne / acceleration

arachne will increase your wall latch time and acceleration increases firerate on primaries on critical

PRIMARY - shedu

dont have to worry about coming down and running around for ammo so just stay wall latched blanket the area with explosions.

 

GOD MAKER LOKI

just max out duration and add the augment safeguard switch

 

so now you basically switch teleport with a squad member and make them totally immortal for 18sec. It might not sound like much but that's more than enough time for them to get out of trouble or wipe an entire room out without having to worry about anything except damage output.

 

wall latch loki turns him into a aoe killing machine and god maker helps out the team survivability and keeps targets alive in rescue/defection/defence etc.

I dont really see the downside in his kit except for his feeble decoy, it really needs some love.

 

edit: he has a 1/5 - 1 second window after coming out of invisibility where he's not noticed giving you enough time to recast it no worries, whoever mentioned it.

 

[blazinvire]

...Anyone noticed a recurring theme that Loki is fine as long as you mod the living crap out of him?  And really only use two of his abilities?

Decoy and Switch only being useful after you've applied the Augment?
Or Decoy only being useful if you exploit game mechanics and 'hide' the decoy so the taunt draws enemies for longer than 1 nanosecond.

This kind of reminds of a time when Greedy Pull got 'nerfed' and the forums got flooded with people saying DE killed Mag by taking away her only use.
People only used her for Greedy Pull.  And people were okay with that.
What.

Why do you people not want more?

Are people afraid of change?  Of DE messing up?  Of having to re-forma the crap out of their Lokis?