Loki: falling to the wayside. Reworks needed

[Solarsyphon]

5 hours ago, noDDy3000 said:

GOD MAKER LOKI

The problem here is like i said switch teleport is actually pretty annoying to hit allies with both for you because targeting them can be a pain and for the allies getting teleported. Abilities with similar problems like for example the smite augment got improved targeting to solve the problem but switch teleport didn't. 

This augment is good but ultimately I think its main purpose is to make decoy viable by giving it some invulnerability duration. If that is what DE wanted from it they should have switch teleport have the function I mentioned earlier which is some kind of direct biding to switching with the decoy or at least what wisp has which is some auto targeting that she has when teleporting to reseviors. 
 

5 hours ago, noDDy3000 said:

WALL LATCH LOKI

A full mod set and two full arcanes are two massive sets of investment to just capitalise on his passive. Especially when it is so situational only really usable on maps with clear latch vantage points which with the increasingly complex and open map designs is becoming less common.

[KesslerCOIL]

Loki stans really are the worst. So damn convinced he's totally fine and doesnt need a real kit... His kit is hella dated and needs a refresh, facts.

[Cobalt313]

Ideas:

Decoy buff: increase health/armor/survivability scaling and/or add a secondary effect that enemies in a radius around the decoy are un-alerted when it dies. Basically let it fool them into thinking they've killed you until proven otherwise.

Switch Teleport buff:
-swapping with an ally creates a radial effect around the two of you that momentarily stuns/staggers enemies, as they are startled by the Tenno's apparent sudden transformation.

-Swapping with an enemy inflicts the Confusion status proc on them and/or makes them draw enemy fire at their new destination; basically neither the victim nor the surrounding enemies will realize Loki has swapped places with them until after they've already received or inflicted some friendly fire.

[noDDy3000]

6 hours ago, Solarsyphon said:

The problem here is like i said switch teleport is actually pretty annoying to hit allies with both for you because targeting them can be a pain and for the allies getting teleported. Abilities with similar problems like for example the smite augment got improved targeting to solve the problem but switch teleport didn't. 

This augment is good but ultimately I think its main purpose is to make decoy viable by giving it some invulnerability duration. If that is what DE wanted from it they should have switch teleport have the function I mentioned earlier which is some kind of direct biding to switching with the decoy or at least what wisp has which is some auto targeting that she has when teleporting to reseviors. 

fair point, it is hard to target especially in crowded rooms and when a teammate is jumping around like a frenetic flea.

 

6 hours ago, Solarsyphon said:

A full mod set and two full arcanes are two massive sets of investment to just capitalise on his passive. Especially when it is so situational only really usable on maps with clear latch vantage points which with the increasingly complex and open map designs is becoming less common.

no full mod set is needed in the build, just the ones stated. As for the arcanes, acceleration is not needed,  arcane arachne is also a neglected arcane is it's cheap as chips, it's like 2p each so no worries, even without it it's still around +30secs of wall latch time. Of course it's situational, that's the point of having so many frames and builds, you dont take certain frames/builds on certain missions.  As for open worlds, the only place which latching would be a real problem would be the plains. Orb vallis missions are mostly at corpus bases and cambion has enough environmental stuff to latch on to, so I wouldn't say being able to latch onto things as less common. Example the corpus ships, before they were more cramped, after the update more spacious and easier to latch and target a larger area without the camera spazzing out while targeting.

 

 

6 hours ago, KesslerCOIL said:

Loki stans really are the worst. So damn convinced he's totally fine and doesnt need a real kit... His kit is hella dated and needs a refresh, facts.

A lick of paint yes, a rework, not really. I rather them fix other things in the game or rework other frames that need it more than Loki.

9 hours ago, blazinvire said:

Why do you people not want more?

Are people afraid of change?  Of DE messing up?  Of having to re-forma the crap out of their Lokis?

I'll answer these from my POV.

Sure, new content is always appreciated, as for Loki, a lick of paint is enough

Not afraid of change, just that other things can be fixed before a loki 'rework' is needed.

DE messing up? nah, I expect them to mess up, the community to jump on them and changes to hopefully happen for the better. (in a constructive way I have to point out considering the helminth thread before the update, yeesh)

re-forma loki? I'd be surprised if people even use 1 on him, such a cheap frame to get modded up.

again this is my POV.

 

[Bakaguya-sama]

18 hours ago, Elyann said:

You must not possess many frames if you think he's the worst , he's far from it .
...
His stealth isn't necessairely inferior to Octavia's by any means and as some people have claimed ( and yes , it's for real ) Octavia's stealth can feel a little annoying to pull off depending on the melody you are using .

 

I have every Warframe. Prime or the the ones without Prime.  In my opinion, Loki is the absolute worst Warframe in the game.  He's worse than Nyx. At the very least, Nyx have a unique niche (mind-controlling hordes of mobs), just that niche is not very good right now (mobs do no damage to each other).   

Loki has one thing going for him, his stealth. And his stealth is worse than Octavia. Just turn down all the music volume, put on every notes on the mandachord, and spam crouch every 40-50 seconds to keep up stealth. Who cares about melodies. With minimal upkeep you can keep her stealth up for 100% duration of the game.

Think of the few scenarios where stealth is actually demanded. Like the "Do entire lv 30+ Exterminate mission which not being detected by the enemy" Rivens challenge. If you bring Loki into that, you constantly have to stress out about the timer, making sure you are in a good hiding spot every time your stealth duration runs low so you can recast it without being detected. If there's even one enemy looking at you, you fail the riven challenge. Octavia on the other hand... just casually do the Exterminate like usual. There's 0 risk of you losing invisibility unless you fell asleep at the keyboard. I know because I have tried popping rivens like these numerous times on Loki, before realizing how much better Octavia is. 

Or simple Spy Vaults. There's a risk of your stealth timer running out while you clip a camera field for Loki. So you have to make sure you are in cover when the timer ends. There is no such risk for Octavia.

Of course I can "git gud" with Loki and properly time my stealth duration. But why go through that hassle when, again, I can just play Octavia.    

And Radial Disarm is a very niche utility. You spam it so enemy mobs switch to melee and walk to your defense objective faster. It's a way to negate atrocious AI pathing and speed up Defense completion time, similar to Speedva. It's less risky than Speedva for higher level content (sped up lvl 100+ ranged mobs can be lethal). That is the only thing I will concede that Loki can do uniquely. However, I would just prefer avoiding any Defense Arbitration or Steel Path as most of Defense maps are atrocious nowadays. Survivals are better farms.  

 

[DoomFruit]

On 2020-09-05 at 5:50 PM, Buttaface said:

Yep, agree with the above and not the OP. Loki is fine, master race.

Absolutely not. Loki is average. Not bad enough to need a rework, not good enough to need a nerf.

Average. Nothing else.

Move along. Do not look twice at Loki.

(for god's sake, don't draw attention to him. I don't want him nerfed)