Review of the Necramech fights

[Lichformed]

So I finally got the RNG to bless me with the one drop of Ballistics I needed for my own mech and I got every part building, so I'll copy paste my opinion of the fight here for people to see.

DISCLAIMER FOR PEOPLE WHO DO NOT READ ON A FORUM ONCE AGAIN, I AM NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT HOW "HARD" THE NECRAMECHS ARE AND I AM COMPLETELY AWARE YOU CAN FACEROLL LITERALLY ANYTHING IN THE GAME, THE POST IS COMPLETELY ABOUT HOW BORKED AND INCONSISTENT THE FIGHT IS IN SO MANY WAYS

Necramechs for free player are absolutely no fun.

It's either instakill them or don't have any fun.

I'm sorry [DE] but not everyone is pay and buy everything, and I have a good kitgun that can kill Mechs in a second if the correct conditions are met.

And my god the conditions are so damn inconsistent. "Hurr durr lets make a shield that reflects damage that gets ripped off by shooting it"

I use the shower nozzle amp and it's ridiculous that they can spam their shield back up BEFORE I'M DONE WITH GOING FROM OPERATOR TO THE WARFRAME

Also CC is broken on the Mechs, they just spin around in Harrow's condemn so even if there's a chance where all the moons of the galaxy are lined up and the Mech doesn't spam the shield up before you take five shots the mech still spins around making it impossible to hit without punchthrough solo.

Also I love Bloodborne, up in my all time favourite games and it has taught me to be an offensive dodger, and it feels so damn bad when you do a cool dodge slide under their one armed melee attack, flick to their backback AND IT'S IMMUNE FOR NO REASON

Sure it's fine if people can instakill the mechs no biggie but why must it be so hard for people who do not metaslave and still can melt Liches and starter Steel Path with their weapons.

It's broken, bad and designed without any logic, and if you're saying it's "fun" while instakilling them you're talking about an experience that does not even interact with the boss at all.

I just got done with my grind for my own mech because the game decided to give me the lowest tier loid standing thingies for a day, but my god I'll just buy the mods off the market because the fight is so unenjoyably broken.

 

[Tonin4ABonin]

20 hours ago, Lichformed said:

-snip-

The immunity is like ironskin so you have to break it before you can damage it, so you can kill it with several frames....so then you complain if you instakill it its not fun, then if you don't instakill it, its not fun, so what, make it a bullet sponge and then you'll complain it's not fun? Add more phases to it and you'll complain it's not fun or takes too long? What?

[AConfusedBird]

i have to agree. i'm glad that there are people who aren't struggling with them, but poor telegraphing, near-permanent invincibility, unpredictable damage reflection, random arm respawns (ie, knock its arm off and it may magically reappear, it's happened to me several times), tiny, constantly moving weakspots whose hitboxes seem broken half the time...

this enemy could be a challenging, engaging miniboss, but it's so broken it's no fun at all :( 

[o0Despair0o]

I had one guy in my squad earlier who oneshotted Mechs left and right. When my buddy asked what is magic trick is, he said "Nyx's debuff".

 

Now, I haven't played Nyx in a while, but I don't recall there being any debuff.

[AConfusedBird]

@o0Despair0o nyx's psychic bolts can strip armor up to 100%

[Kaotyke]

1 minute ago, o0Despair0o said:

I had one guy in my squad earlier who oneshotted Mechs left and right. When my buddy asked what is magic trick is, he said "Nyx's debuff".

 

Now, I haven't played Nyx in a while, but I don't recall there being any debuff.

Its called Psych Bolts.

[BansheePrime]

1 minute ago, o0Despair0o said:

I had one guy in my squad earlier who oneshotted Mechs left and right. When my buddy asked what is magic trick is, he said "Nyx's debuff".

 

Now, I haven't played Nyx in a while, but I don't recall there being any debuff.

One of her attacks strips armor but that does not explain anything.

[Tesseract7777]

1 minute ago, o0Despair0o said:

I had one guy in my squad earlier who oneshotted Mechs left and right. When my buddy asked what is magic trick is, he said "Nyx's debuff".

 

Now, I haven't played Nyx in a while, but I don't recall there being any debuff.

Armor strip.

This thread is exhibit A in why "hurr durr there's no endgame". 

People get upset that a fight is too hard or too frustrating, and refuse to use the bajillion tools available to them. Instead, they complain that only a few tools can do it (just straight up not true) and it's too hard for "non meta-slaves", then DE nerfs the fight to nothing, and people sitting there with all there pimped out gear watch as every tough boss enemy DE creates gets nerfed to nothing and beaten to death in no time flat again like yet another sad loot pinata. 

I'm no meta slave. I run garbage guns because I like their theme and I like to try out experimental frame setups. Necramechs are not hard. 

[Mimic]

1 minute ago, o0Despair0o said:

I had one guy in my squad earlier who oneshotted Mechs left and right. When my buddy asked what is magic trick is, he said "Nyx's debuff".

 

Now, I haven't played Nyx in a while, but I don't recall there being any debuff.

Nyx 2 strips armour and her 4 (with augment) lets you take no damage from reflect so you can just put on a weapon like catchmoon kitgun or stropha and face tank the mechs.

[Zandermanith222]

I just want it to have a cooldown on its invincibility is all.

[ES-Flinter]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb BansheePrime:

One of her attacks strips armor but that does not explain anything.

It not only strips armor it also remove shields. And the main defense mechanism of the mechs are their shields.

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Tesseract7777:

This thread is exhibit A in why "hurr durr there's no endgame". 

People get upset that a fight is too hard or too frustrating, and refuse to use the bajillion tools available to them. Instead, they complain that only a few tools can do it (just straight up not true) and it's too hard for "non meta-slaves", then DE nerfs the fight to nothing, and people sitting there with all there pimped out gear watch as every tough boss enemy DE creates gets nerfed to nothing and beaten to death in no time flat again like yet another sad loot pinata. 

I'm no meta slave. I run garbage guns because I like their theme and I like to try out experimental frame setups. Necramechs are not hard. 

I agree with you, but I have to admit that the reflect-ability of the mechs are a bit to unfair. Hard to predict, when they reflect it and me as an Ash main don't have to mention, that one attack is enough to kill myself.

[Sintag]

Really, about the only thing regarding Nechramech fights that needs changing?  Storm Shroud needs a cooldown on it or some indicator of how long-ranged the damage reflection is.  Something to make the damage reflection more predictable.  Otherwise, I'm okay with the fight being as difficult as it is.

[Hokibukisa]

Oh good it’s not a nerf Octavia thread xD

Because I don’t even shoot them.

:>

[Kaotyke]

23 minutes ago, ES-Flinter said:

It not only strips armor it also remove shields. And the main defense mechanism of the mechs are their shields.

I agree with you, but I have to admit that the reflect-ability of the mechs are a bit to unfair. Hard to predict, when they reflect it and me as an Ash main don't have to mention, that one attack is enough to kill myself.

Except it isnt. Shield Gate activades unless you are being hit non stop and the shields never fully recharges.

And as ASH? You should be invisible and with full shields because they shouldnt hit you.

[GPrime96]

Just now, Kaotyke said:

And as ASH? You should be invisible and with full shields because they shouldnt hit you.

It’s not the Mechs killing you while invisible, it’s his Weapons that kills him because of it’s Shield

[ES-Flinter]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Kaotyke:

Except it isnt. Shield Gate activades unless you are being hit non stop and the shields never fully recharges

The shields from the enemies are removed, when Nyx hit the mech with Psychic bolt. And with 0 Shields there's no shieldgate.

[DeMonkey]

I don't know if you can class this as a "Non-metaslave" review. I absolutely abhor using the meta, and deliberately don't one shot it, however this review is not representative of my opinion.

I use the Soma Prime, Imperator Vandal or Prisma Gorgon against them, none of which anyone would dream of declaring meta, and 0 armour stripping. I'm still perfectly capable of doing vault runs. There is logic at play in the fight regardless of whether people have experimented with it enough to discover it. Outside of some genuine problems, such as my theory that the Mechs cause each other to activate their shields based on proximity and the instantaneous activation, the fight is largely enjoyable.

[Umbriellan]

I have 2 main complains about the necramechs:
1-their sniper-bot targeting ability; able to 360° no-scope with a HMG - and when I solo (most of the time against them), they prefer to target me than any other kind of target (octavia's mallet, infested units or even the friendly liche coming as reinforcement) however close the 3rd party is to the Necra...
2-their shield (a) it reflects damages, so you can kill yourself (and Nekros' pawns would damage your warframe, but I'm too afraid to test that again & confirm it) - and you can't do a thing against it; + (b) it has a rhino's armor effect, as others said above - which force you to damage the shield (and so take damages) to destroy the shield ... ; + (c) there is no cooldown for this ability (when fighting 2x Necra, I had only the time to take care of their shields with my operator but one of them immediatly put its shield back...).

About the first complain ... we can deal with that in various way + it is lore-explainable as Warframe are maybe set as "enemy public n°1" for all factions, it would be the same for Necramechs.
About the second complain, I do believe it unfair in various ways and so I think of 2x possible solutions:
1-let the shield as additive protection (remove the hardly understandable "reflection effect"), but doesn't make it "Rhino like", but duration based (it would be up for 10 to 20 seconds).
2-let the shield as it is (with it's "reflection effect") but it will reflect in a different way : less hasardous, but more like Nyx shock-wave after her 4 (make it so you can block all damages via distance and/or behind obstacles). This way, people will understand what happens. There, the shield will remains up as long as it's not damaged (like today).
+ for both solutions, we create a 15 sec (max) of cooldown to let any player do something against Necramechs.

Like that: it remains a fun boss to fight, it keeps a (meaningful) defensive ability - but everyone won't be surprised by a random mechanic.

[trst]

You don't need to be a metaslave to make them easy, you just need to find an opportunity to shoot their weakspot. Even if their shield is up they're still vulnerable from behind and damage dealt to that area counts against the shields hp. And distracting them to get to their back isn't even a necessity if you just roll away from their dash as the animation of them landing afterwards is quite lengthy.

You can "metaslave" the fights and cheese them, run with a squad, or just git gud and make the opportunities to shoot them yourself.

[Serafim_94]

39 минут назад, Tesseract7777 сказал:

Armor strip.

This thread is exhibit A in why "hurr durr there's no endgame". 

People get upset that a fight is too hard or too frustrating, and refuse to use the bajillion tools available to them. Instead, they complain that only a few tools can do it (just straight up not true) and it's too hard for "non meta-slaves", then DE nerfs the fight to nothing, and people sitting there with all there pimped out gear watch as every tough boss enemy DE creates gets nerfed to nothing and beaten to death in no time flat again like yet another sad loot pinata. 

I'm no meta slave. I run garbage guns because I like their theme and I like to try out experimental frame setups. Necramechs are not hard. 

This isn't about effective or non-effective builds. The mechs themselves are designed horribly. They don't need to be made easier - they need to be made sensible to fight. With clear telegraphs of wtf is happening. With proper opportunity windows.

Because right now, if you want to actually FIGHT necramech, and not just bypass all of his mechanics with one or the other cheese - you're going to get #*!%ed. Hard. Path of exile gamedesign at its worst.

[Tesseract7777]

Just now, Serafim_94 said:

This isn't about effective or non-effective builds. The mechs themselves are designed horribly. They don't nee to be made easier - they need to be made sensible to fight. With clear telegraphs of wtf is happening. With proper opportunity windows.

Because right now, if you want to actually FIGHT necramech, and not just bypass all of his mechanics with one or the other cheese - you're going to get #*!%ed. Hard. Path of exile gamedesign at its worst.

I just don't agree, no offense.

I read nothing, I watched no video's. 

I quickly found out how to avoid their weakpoints, how to avoid them at their most dangerous, etc just by fighting them. I thought they were well designed as far as minibosses go and just don't understand people saying how to kill them or evade damage when fighting them is poorly telegraphed. It doesn't sync with my experience. 

[DeMonkey]

Just now, Serafim_94 said:

With proper opportunity windows.

There are proper opportunity windows.

Just now, Serafim_94 said:

Because right now, if you want to actually FIGHT necramech, and not just bypass all of his mechanics with one or the other cheese - you're going to get #*!%ed. Hard.

Incorrect.

[Yagamilight123]

hace 49 minutos, Lichformed dijo:

So I finally got the RNG to bless me with the one drop of Ballistics I needed for my own mech and I got every part building, so I'll copy paste my opinion of the fight here for people to see.

 

Necramechs for a non-metaslave are absolutely no fun.

It's either instakill them or don't have any fun.

I'm sorry [DE] but not everyone is such a metaslave, and I have a good kitgun that can kill Mechs in a second if the correct conditions are met.

And my god the conditions are so damn inconsistent. "Hurr durr lets make a shield that reflects damage that gets ripped off by shooting it"

I use the shower nozzle amp and it's ridiculous that they can spam their shield back up BEFORE I'M DONE WITH GOING FROM OPERATOR TO THE WARFRAME

Also CC is broken on the Mechs, they just spin around in Harrow's condemn so even if there's a chance where all the moons of the galaxy are lined up and the Mech doesn't spam the shield up before you take five shots the mech still spins around making it impossible to hit without punchthrough solo.

Also I love Bloodborne, up in my all time favourite games and it has taught me to be an offensive dodger, and it feels so damn bad when you do a cool dodge slide under their one armed melee attack, flick to their backback AND IT'S IMMUNE FOR NO REASON

Sure it's fine if people can instakill the mechs no biggie but why in the absolute blessed tumor of Vay Hek's left asscheek must it be so hard for people who do not metaslave and still can melt Liches and starter Steel Path with their weapons.

It's broken, bad and designed without any logic, and if you're saying it's "fun" while instakilling them you're talking about an experience that does not even interact with the boss at all.

I just got done with my grind for my own mech because the game decided to give me the lowest tier loid standing thingies for a day, but my god I'll just buy the mods off the market because the fight is so unenjoyably broken.

 

Or .... or .... you could just pick octavia , press 1 , press 2 and ... profit .

[Aldain]

The only thing that needs to change is the ability the Necramechs have to spam the invuln reflector shield.

Everything else is fine imo, it is just the ability to spam that shield, maybe make the enemy version of it also have a range cap on how far it can reflect damage so you can break it from a distance as a smart form of counterplay?

Otherwise they are fine, it is just when the spam that shield that they go from "Reasonable Enemy" to "God damn it stop spamming that shield!"

[Wyrmius_Prime]

52 minutes ago, Tonin4ABonin said:

The immunity is like ironskin so you have to break it before you can damage it, so you can kill it with several frames....so then you complain if you instakill it its not fun, then if you don't instakill it, its not fun, so what, make it a bullet sponge and then you'll complain it's not fun? Add more phases to it and you'll complain it's not fun or takes too long? What?

There is also a bug with them taking barely any damage when they arent damage immune with the reflect. Sometimes you can shoot both of their arms off and they have taken 1/20th of their entire health bar of damage, which is nothing. Then you continue to shoot their back and you are for some reason doing only 200 damage a shot with a maxed build on a sniper/corinth prime using chroma modded for radiation (their weakness). Sometimes you oneshot them without taking a single arm off. Sometimes they even take damage from plain bodyshot. This type of inconsistency is what is making the fights extremely annoying. Especially solo when I am always the host there seems to be even more of these inconsistencies. As a client I don't even need a high hitting weapon to oneshot them.