Review of the Necramech fights

[TARINunit9]

26 minutes ago, Hokibukisa said:

Oh good it’s not a nerf Octavia thread xD

Because I don’t even shoot them.

:>

Please tell me how to make them actually kill themselves and not just instantly pop their ElectricReflect Skin two seconds after I drop a Mallet, nullify all Warframe powers, and turn onto long annoying slogs

[ES-Flinter]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb Umbriellan:

About the second complain, I do believe it unfair in various ways and so I think of 2x possible solutions:
1-let the shield as additive protection (remove the hardly understandable "reflection effect"), but doesn't make it "Rhino like", but duration based (it would be up for 10 to 20 seconds).
2-let the shield as it is (with it's "reflection effect") but it will reflect in a different way : less hasardous, but more like Nyx shock-wave after her 4 (make it so you can block all damages via distance and/or behind obstacles). This way, people will understand what happens. There, the shield will remains up as long as it's not damaged (like today).
+ for both solutions, we create a 15 sec (max) of cooldown to let any player do something against Necramechs.

Can I choose option C? Remove the reflection of the mechs and from Octavia.

It's not like that it's a coincidence that the most broken characters (Mechs, Octavia) in this game both have a reflection abilities.

[Deadoon]

There are 2 major flaws to necramechs.

Damage reflect in the asymmetrical damage environment that we already exist in and telegraphing.

Players do an absurd amount of damage compared to how much health they have. Enemies have absurd amounts of health in relation to how much damage they do. When enemies reflect damage back at themselves, it isn't too severe, when players reflect damage back to themselves it instantly kills them often. With frames that have no shield gate, one shotting your self is a given.

Telegraphing is the other core issue, there is no tells or windups to many of the mechs attacks or moves. If the mech only activated it's energy shield when it jumped, it would be reasonable. If the mech did a tiny jump back when it did a charge, it would make sense. If it made a loud noise when it was about to grenade spam, it would be fine. The slow canister just needs less range for it's slow, that thing goes way farther than it should.

[DrivaMain]

What they need to change is the very small weak point on the back and I heard it’s buggy as well. It’s can be very difficult to aim for it especially because the mech always try to turn away from you. Sure pinpoint hitscan accuracy like the soma does it job, but what about other weapons like Bows?
 

Oh and remove their status immunity. 

[Yagamilight123]

hace 29 minutos, TARINunit9 dijo:

Please tell me how to make them actually kill themselves and not just instantly pop their ElectricReflect Skin two seconds after I drop a Mallet, nullify all Warframe powers, and turn onto long annoying slogs

Never happen to me .... (i did 15 or so trivaults with octavia) . Sometimes they kill themself instantly ... sometimes it takes 10-15 secods , but no more than that .

[(PSN)robotwars7]

they aren't that bad IMO, the shield spam just draws the fight out longer and the weak spots are monster hunter levels of questionable, but there are ways to dispatch them. I like using Wukong's Defy on them as they use their grenades. sure, they might block the damage return with their shield, but if they don't, it's an instant kill, it's hilarious. I'm more annoyed by their grenade's slowing effect, which seems to have no range indicator and lasts for what feels like an eternity. 

[Hokibukisa]

1 hour ago, TARINunit9 said:

Please tell me how to make them actually kill themselves and not just instantly pop their ElectricReflect Skin two seconds after I drop a Mallet, nullify all Warframe powers, and turn onto long annoying slogs

Idk, I stay invisible and they seem to blow themselves up pretty fast

[Lichformed]

2 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

I use the Soma Prime, Imperator Vandal or Prisma Gorgon against them, none of which anyone would dream of declaring meta, and 0 armour stripping. I'm still perfectly capable of doing vault runs.  the fight is largely enjoyable.

Again, I have the mech, I am completely done with the required amount of self work from vault runs and I have the necramech coming in and sure my choice of weapon is a lot better than your aside from Imperator Vandal.

But are you sure you have not ran into repetitive issues with the shield spamming and not actually engaging weak points?

Am I seriously the only one who's experiencing the shield spam and irregular shield amounts?

[LoriSei]

Well it's where Nyx time to shine :D

[Lichformed]

2 hours ago, Tonin4ABonin said:

The immunity is like ironskin so you have to break it before you can damage it, so you can kill it with several frames....so then you complain if you instakill it its not fun, then if you don't instakill it, its not fun, so what, make it a bullet sponge and then you'll complain it's not fun? Add more phases to it and you'll complain it's not fun or takes too long? What?

1) Iron Skin doesn't instakill you with your own damage, I don't get where you get that example when it's clearly not scaling from damage taken and has a completely different mechanic attached that can be found on Octavia for example.

2) I want the fight to be engaging and actually work. If you have a boss that can reactivate their invulnerability before you can even get out of the animation for your main damage form your fight is pretty borked.

You can write as many strawmen as you want about me wanting it to be fun in my way for everyone, I want the fight to work in somewhat of a consistent manner outside of instakilling it. I've taken them down in a couple of seconds at best and I've been in a shield loop for 5 times straight with absolutely no DPS time frame possible in the game.

[Lichformed]

2 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Armor strip.

People get upset that a fight is too hard or too frustrating, and refuse to use the bajillion tools available to them. 

I'm no meta slave. I run garbage guns because I like their theme and I like to try out experimental frame setups. Necramechs are not hard. 

I'm not upset about it being hard, I'm upset at it being so inconsistent it does not resemble anything at all that was intended in any way.

Also my favorite Warframe does not have armor strip yet, again, "I have a good kitgun that can kill Mechs in a second if the correct conditions are met." Please read.

[(PSN)poloslash18]

1 minute ago, Lichformed said:

1) Iron Skin doesn't instakill you with your own damage, I don't get where you get that example when it's clearly not scaling from damage taken and has a completely different mechanic attached that can be found on Octavia for example.

2) I want the fight to be engaging and actually work. If you have a boss that can reactivate their invulnerability before you can even get out of the animation for your main damage form your fight is pretty borked.

You can write as many strawmen as you want about me wanting it to be fun in my way for everyone, I want the fight to work in somewhat of a consistent manner outside of instakilling it. I've taken them down in a couple of seconds at best and I've been in a shield loop for 5 times straight with absolutely no DPS time frame possible in the game.

I hear you. I just failed the Third Vault because the weakpoints of 1 of the 3 Necramechs just bugged out. I managed to kill one by shooting it on the pod, not on the back. That’s not where the weakpoints are supposed to be. The second Mech never let his shield down and the back weakpoint didn’t work.

The problem here is not skills or loadouts, is consistency. Which this encounter does not have. 
 

[Lichformed]

2 hours ago, Hokibukisa said:

Oh good it’s not a nerf Octavia thread xD

Because I don’t even shoot them.

:>

I'm not here to take away anyone's fun not at all, I'm not blaming people for metaslaving or making the content a joke, the post is just completely about how annoying the mechs are to deal with on a basic level unless you completely bypass the gameplay.

And sure I'd even encourage people to metaslave/play Octavia or whatever through this just because it's so broken.

[stormy505]

Use a decent weapon.  Killed it solo with an under leveled hildryn and kohm. I don't get how people are struggling with this fight.

[Lichformed]

2 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

There are proper opportunity windows.

And sometimes the windows like to completely shut before you even transfer into your Warframe.

Sometimes ripping the window open takes one charged pencha shot or 3 to 7 oh god.

The only window consistent in the fight is being able to take out both arms, then the fight devolves into a RNG mess depending completely on your luck with the AI and damage reduction/shield amounts.

[Tesseract7777]

20 minutes ago, Lichformed said:

Again, I have the mech, I am completely done with the required amount of self work from vault runs and I have the necramech coming in and sure my choice of weapon is a lot better than your aside from Imperator Vandal.

But are you sure you have not ran into repetitive issues with the shield spamming and not actually engaging weak points?

Am I seriously the only one who's experiencing the shield spam and irregular shield amounts?

Maybe so. Maybe you are experiencing bugs or something that we aren't. 

Because I genuinely am not trying to say "git gud" and I want to understand where you are coming from, but I am not experiencing the frustration or inconsistencies you are. 

Maybe you are doing something we aren't that is causing the thing to bug out or something. It's a new miniboss, it could have buggy interactions with certain things in the game still. I don't want to invalidate your experience, I just haven't experience it myself. 

[Lichformed]

8 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Maybe so. Maybe you are experiencing bugs or something that we aren't. 

Because I genuinely am not trying to say "git gud" and I want to understand where you are coming from, but I am not experiencing the frustration or inconsistencies you are. 

Maybe you are doing something we aren't that is causing the thing to bug out or something. It's a new miniboss, it could have buggy interactions with certain things in the game still. I don't want to invalidate your experience, I just haven't experience it myself. 

Tbh at that point it's even worse then really if it's THAT inconsistent between people who do not even instantly melt it.

But hey at least that's mainly what forums are for to gather individual experiences too. 

But for me it has been majorly broken if any standards of boss design is concerned, and I for one love doing Kuva Liches with the same exact kit I run against Necramechs.

[Lichformed]

1 hour ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

 I'm more annoyed by their grenade's slowing effect, which seems to have no range indicator and lasts for what feels like an eternity. 

Now that you mention it as grinded Mechs today I didn't even get slowed only but a couple of encounters even though yesterday I had the same problem as you.

I've also been fighting them increasingly up their face and disengaging really far, don't tell me their AI throws grenades based on finely tuned distance when we can close 30 meters in an instant lol.

[(PSN)DidacoJack]

I agree with OP, mostly.

My main problem is that the fight is just catered too much toward usual AoE weapons, while traditional ones are left behind, forced to follow the boss mechanics that the devs had in mind (which is good, don't get me wrong).

Why does the gap have to be so big?

Following mechanics is doable when you're fighting 1-2 of them, but when they're 3 and they constantly make turns on using canisters/grenades/charges while you get swarmed by the infested... It just gets frustrating. 

For the shield reflection part: for whatever reason I don't have that many problems with it even when I fight them as Vauban or Volt. When the shield is up I melee them until they run out...  It can loop 2-3 times in a row to my experience, after that the downtime is pretty big. 

For the canisters, I just roll away from the AoE as much as I can until the slowing effect runs out. But you can be sure that you'll get slowed, no matter how much you anticipated the attack. 

[Marvelous_A]

I just give up using weapons because I get one-shot by the reflect damage all the time. Exalted Blade bypasses their invulnerability and can hurt them as long as their shield is not up.

I still die when the damage get reflected but at least if their shield is down I can easily kill one in seconds.

[Aldain]

1 minute ago, Marvelous_A said:

I just give up using weapons because I get one-shot by the reflect damage all the time. Exalted Blade bypasses their invulnerability and can hurt them as long as their shield is not up.

That's how I did most of my farming, Exalted Blade being a good solution to something for once fills me with joy.

Just slap on Chromatic Blade and go Radiation/Cold and tear it a new one, it's almost shocking how easy Wukong and Excalibur have it against these things.

[DeMonkey]

3 hours ago, Lichformed said:

But are you sure you have not ran into repetitive issues with the shield spamming and not actually engaging weak points?

Pretty sure yeah. I realised early on that the shield is activated reliably based on proximity, so I stood away from it.

I realised that by standing far enough away I could bait out their charges, and subsequently engage with their weak points. Essentially I realised I couldn't just stand there and bash my head against a brick wall and expect it to fall over.

3 hours ago, Lichformed said:

And sometimes the windows like to completely shut before you even transfer into your Warframe

There are other ways besides using your Operator. 

3 hours ago, Lichformed said:

The only window consistent in the fight is being able to take out both arms, then the fight devolves into a RNG mess depending completely on your luck with the AI and damage reduction/shield amounts.

Shield amount is determined by how much you shot it when the shield went up. It works like Iron Skin. Not using a meta weapon is actually quite helpful in this regard.

[BornWithTeeth]

Man’s not wrong.
 

1- Necramechs are an interesting fight, and a fun concept, but their mechanics are janky and inconsistent. When fighting a necramech, I’m never thinking ‘oooh, this is a challenging fight with a tough enemy,’ I’m thinking ‘wow this is a badly designed enemy kit which is clearly a reaction to the way that DE have allowed power creep to get out of hand. Status immunity and crit scaling damage reduction and invulnerability phases and weakpoints and damage reflection? All with bugger all telegraphing? And what appears to be bugged or inconsistent application of those mechanics half the time? Jesus DE. It might be better to just take a long, hard look at the damage system, huh?’

2 - Several replies are basically “it’s ok for mechs to have broken mechanics, just use [broken warframe mechanic] to beat them,” which is, uh, not a ringing endorsement of the system.

[Annnoth]

4 hours ago, Lichformed said:

I'm not here to take away anyone's fun not at all, I'm not blaming people for metaslaving or making the content a joke, the post is just completely about how annoying the mechs are to deal with on a basic level unless you completely bypass the gameplay.

And sure I'd even encourage people to metaslave/play Octavia or whatever through this just because it's so broken.

That's basically what ended up happening to me. Pretty much everything that's crazy powerful always ends up being not fun to me for one reason or another either through how cheesy it is, or how lame it feels to use. I have stuck with this train of through more or less since I started playing the game because it was fine.

But for necramechs I just broke out octavia for the first time in years. My experience for a couple hours straight was basically: they litterally keep putting up shields one after the other. Sometimes I can take out the shield an instant, sometimes it takes 10 seconds of shooting cause they put the shield up and at a ton of damage. Then when I do manage to get at their weakspot it sometimes it doesn't work. Also for some reason my hystrix does more damage to them than my rivened corinth prime. They might have fixed that issue, I haven't checked.

Meanwhile I had no problem actively fighting them. Shield gating made their quick grenade spread not that hard to get away from and even when slowed by the canister you can circle strafe their shots and they will miss 90% of them. It was just a test of patience as the mechanics just kept breaking down.

and considering how many of them I'd have fought and will continue to fight for the mech and it's mods, it was nice not having to waste much time.

[844448]

7 hours ago, Lichformed said:

I'm sorry [DE] but not everyone is such a metaslave, and I have a good kitgun that can kill Mechs in a second if the correct conditions are met.

I'm not using meta and I'm doing fine

7 hours ago, Lichformed said:

I use the shower nozzle amp and it's ridiculous that they can spam their shield back up BEFORE I'M DONE WITH GOING FROM OPERATOR TO THE WARFRAME

Just like us being able to spam our ability back up so bait them to empty their energy reserve to prevent them from spamming it