Review of the Necramech fights

[dEjAvU5566]

Necramech just need clear visual cue for the reflective shield, other are fine.

[LoriSei]

7 hours ago, Lichformed said:

So I finally got the RNG to bless me with the one drop of Ballistics I needed for my own mech and I got every part building, so I'll copy paste my opinion of the fight here for people to see.

DISCLAIMER FOR PEOPLE WHO DO NOT READ ON A FORUM ONCE AGAIN, I AM NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT HOW "HARD" THE NECRAMECHS ARE AND I AM COMPLETELY AWARE YOU CAN FACEROLL LITERALLY ANYTHING IN THE GAME, THE POST IS COMPLETELY ABOUT HOW BORKED AND INCONSISTENT THE FIGHT IS IN SO MANY WAYS

Necramechs for a non-metaslave are absolutely no fun.

It's either instakill them or don't have any fun.

I'm sorry [DE] but not everyone is such a metaslave, and I have a good kitgun that can kill Mechs in a second if the correct conditions are met.

And my god the conditions are so damn inconsistent. "Hurr durr lets make a shield that reflects damage that gets ripped off by shooting it"

I use the shower nozzle amp and it's ridiculous that they can spam their shield back up BEFORE I'M DONE WITH GOING FROM OPERATOR TO THE WARFRAME

Also CC is broken on the Mechs, they just spin around in Harrow's condemn so even if there's a chance where all the moons of the galaxy are lined up and the Mech doesn't spam the shield up before you take five shots the mech still spins around making it impossible to hit without punchthrough solo.

Also I love Bloodborne, up in my all time favourite games and it has taught me to be an offensive dodger, and it feels so damn bad when you do a cool dodge slide under their one armed melee attack, flick to their backback AND IT'S IMMUNE FOR NO REASON

Sure it's fine if people can instakill the mechs no biggie but why in the absolute blessed tumor of Vay Hek's left asscheek must it be so hard for people who do not metaslave and still can melt Liches and starter Steel Path with their weapons.

It's broken, bad and designed without any logic, and if you're saying it's "fun" while instakilling them you're talking about an experience that does not even interact with the boss at all.

I just got done with my grind for my own mech because the game decided to give me the lowest tier loid standing thingies for a day, but my god I'll just buy the mods off the market because the fight is so unenjoyably broken.

 

Just give the game some time. If I was the programer. I prob died from all the issues that has been cause by it. Problem such as XP, Drop Rates, Resource, Errors & a lot of bugs that hasn't been discovered. Will be fixed from time to time. What u can do for now as BETA testers, just enjoy what other stuff it has to offer.

I don't see the issue of ppl being meta or non-meta slave. Although the game has been giving us plenty of options to choose from, and which of us, just need to adapt on whats available atm.

Just let them be. Slowly, our issue will be fixed. Cuz we're playing the unpolished version of it.

[844448]

6 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Please tell me how to make them actually kill themselves and not just instantly pop their ElectricReflect Skin two seconds after I drop a Mallet, nullify all Warframe powers, and turn onto long annoying slogs

The way of Zenurik

"They believed the clearest path to victory was to Dominate the Enemy. They sought to choke an opponent of all resources; that sheer strength could erase any resistance."

Make them waste all their energy and you will dominate them

[Monolake]

This is the bane of WF in general - you can cheese things easily, but if you play 'normally' many things can be insufferable or take forever. And DE rarely feels the need to fix such cases, so as a result people are simply forced to use cheese   - which is often boring and circumvents gameplay, its a loss/loss situation.   No fun, no gameplay or no progress.  But DE never learns from the past mistakes.

[(XBOX)SalTShAk3R]

8 hours ago, Umbriellan said:

I have 2 main complains about the necramechs:
1-their sniper-bot targeting ability; able to 360° no-scope with a HMG - and when I solo (most of the time against them), they prefer to target me than any other kind of target (octavia's mallet, infested units or even the friendly liche coming as reinforcement) however close the 3rd party is to the Necra...
2-their shield (a) it reflects damages, so you can kill yourself (and Nekros' pawns would damage your warframe, but I'm too afraid to test that again & confirm it) - and you can't do a thing against it; + (b) it has a rhino's armor effect, as others said above - which force you to damage the shield (and so take damages) to destroy the shield ... ; + (c) there is no cooldown for this ability (when fighting 2x Necra, I had only the time to take care of their shields with my operator but one of them immediatly put its shield back...).

About the first complain ... we can deal with that in various way + it is lore-explainable as Warframe are maybe set as "enemy public n°1" for all factions, it would be the same for Necramechs.
About the second complain, I do believe it unfair in various ways and so I think of 2x possible solutions:
1-let the shield as additive protection (remove the hardly understandable "reflection effect"), but doesn't make it "Rhino like", but duration based (it would be up for 10 to 20 seconds).
2-let the shield as it is (with it's "reflection effect") but it will reflect in a different way : less hasardous, but more like Nyx shock-wave after her 4 (make it so you can block all damages via distance and/or behind obstacles). This way, people will understand what happens. There, the shield will remains up as long as it's not damaged (like today).
+ for both solutions, we create a 15 sec (max) of cooldown to let any player do something against Necramechs.

Like that: it remains a fun boss to fight, it keeps a (meaningful) defensive ability - but everyone won't be surprised by a random mechanic.

Feeling scared to try something is what we need and still need because like the guy said a few posts back everyone whines to nerf and DE nerfs. Then the game is way too easy and nobody logs in.

[0_The_F00l]

i need a better indicator of their shields - that is the one change i want,

it is very inconsistent cause you cannot tell how much damage to the "iron shield" is needed or how much time is left.

I feel it goes like this:

Shield is raised with X health,

the health keeps going down over time or though any damage it receives (more damage it receives the lesser time is left).

but since there are no damage numbers or the total HP is not shown on the shield you don't know if you should hit them or wait it out.

I can actually take them out while being downed (using my crit based secondary ) cause reflecting damage is pointless if you are already down - but that feels wrong as an intentional mechanic as you lose aggro and the mech can wander.

[Monolake]

8 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Armor strip.

This thread is exhibit A in why "hurr durr there's no endgame". 

People get upset that a fight is too hard or too frustrating, and refuse to use the bajillion tools available to them. Instead, they complain that only a few tools can do it (just straight up not true) and it's too hard for "non meta-slaves", then DE nerfs the fight to nothing, and people sitting there with all there pimped out gear watch as every tough boss enemy DE creates gets nerfed to nothing and beaten to death in no time flat again like yet another sad loot pinata. 

I'm no meta slave. I run garbage guns because I like their theme and I like to try out experimental frame setups. Necramechs are not hard. 

There cant be endgame exactly because there are always ways to cheese it, wb to 2013 when it was all discussed here - you cant have any endgame or challenge when you have cheat-like powers and built in bots. But it's been completely overlooked by DE.  And of course someone will cry when cheese is removed even more, so DE makes everything easy instead - have your 'power fantasy' lol, what power fantasy, when enemies get straight deleted? There is no fight, there is no gameplay.

Will DE disable all the cheese and make Mechs into interesting action fight where your decisions and reactions matter? we all know the answer, sadly. 

[(XBOX)SalTShAk3R]

Lol it’s literally a game on mods. 

Maybe shift our thinking to more mod possibilities or warframe abilities or something? I think enemies need like idk it’s scary to say but maybe a whole new work on health and damage but that was a passing thought it’s not that serious. Or maybe enemies are a lot stronger but you get like 30 revives each

[xcrimsonlegendx]

I just had a game where the mech was literally invincible, for like 12 minutes straight. It just would not lower its shield, everyone kept killing themselves until they quit.

[Chewarette]

I have no idea how they work nor I do care. They're flat out boring enemies so I just hit 4 with my Harrow and spraying everywhere with Nukor, it usually kinda works, sometimes it doesn't, dunno. Fortunately I'm not going solo and there is always someone who knows how to do in squads

They're probably the best sign that DE don't know how to design "difficult" enemies. Big infested enemies with tons of armor, weird "ability hitbox", status random immunity (what was the FREAKING point of Status Rework if you throw that all under the rug two months later with Steel Path's overexaggerated armor and viral-immunity that makes us go back to Corrosive meta ??) and one-shotting procs are another example of not-difficult-but-painfully-boring enemies.

[BahamutKaiser]

Damage reflection without an active explanation, cooldown, and requiring you to chew through basically invalidates a lot of frames and regular play. It's not something you beat tactically, you have to strategize with hidden information. That's bad game design. 

This game emphasizes high damage players vs bullet sponges, when they're damage is returned to them, it is incredibly overtuned against most builds. 

This would be more tolerable if it was segmented like profit taker, with phases and explanations training you and delivering you to the challenge directly when all of the unique mechanics are applied. But throwing players blindly into a chain mission where the finale presents you with an unforseen retaliation gear check is primed for complaints. 

I can accept it the way it is, but it deserves its complaints. Some failsafe would be wise. 

[vegetosayajin]

Um...I really don't know what are you on about - yesterday I went with 3 snipers(eido builds) with no rivens (with nekros btw) and they did the job just fine.(rubico p, vectis p and lanka). Stood far away from it when I could and just one shot them in the arm when the time came.
The fight itself is quite good and fun.
The stages leading to it are boring and looooooooooooooooong.

[Yamazuki]

When not intentionally hindering yourself is equal to being a meta slave.

There is no content that requires following the "meta" to clear it in a reasonable time. The meta is literally just about being efficient, i.e getting the highest amount of kills per minute in survival. In the case of Necramechs, it just means killing them instantly. However, even if you don't kill them instantly, for what is essentially a smaller boss, they die pretty quickly.

Necramechs are also content designed for people that already progressed decently through the game, given they're related to Operators and such, on top of the MR requirement for ranking up the syndicate. By that point one should already know how to mod their weapons.

DE just needs to fix their bugs and inconsistencies, as well as adding a cool down to their shield. Although, consider these aren't the only recent additions with spammable Iron Skin. One of the Liches has that (without reflect) and a teleport. It was my first Lich, and they kept using the Iron Skin ability and Teleport back to back.

11 hours ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

As a client I don't even need a high hitting weapon to oneshot them.

This was an issue during SS with the Condrix. The host had a damage cap, and the clients didn't. I always had to go out of my way to make sure I wasn't hosting so I could actually 1 shot them. It's probably why there's more complaints from people who solo.

[HelloItIsIJimbles]

The fight is boring to me so I feel it's best to cheese it. 

Octavia and Nyx can cheese it pretty fast and I personally I use Nyx for it. Kindof funny when people with necromechs get mad when I blow the enemy mechs up in a few second or less, apperently its kindof fun to figh them in your own mech. 

[Serafim_94]

13 часов назад, Tesseract7777 сказал:

I just don't agree, no offense.

I read nothing, I watched no video's. 

I quickly found out how to avoid their weakpoints, how to avoid them at their most dangerous, etc just by fighting them. I thought they were well designed as far as minibosses go and just don't understand people saying how to kill them or evade damage when fighting them is poorly telegraphed. It doesn't sync with my experience. 

They are impossible to pin down, their shield is barely visible and allows them to regenerate, their weakpoints are almost invisible, and, I can swear at this point, bugged. I'm glad to hear you managed to figure your way around mechs. I didn't, despite killing them several times in intended way. With fights wildly varying in difficulty for no apparent reason.

Ultimately, there's a reason every pug now runs either one-shot gun, Excalibur or Octavia. That reason is, this way it bypasses intended fight mechanics. I won't be surprised if current meta will be killed by patches, as reflect and ifinite pierce are CLEARLY unintended ways to deal with mechs. Question is, then what?

[Kaotyke]

13 hours ago, GPrime96 said:

It’s not the Mechs killing you while invisible, it’s his Weapons that kills him because of it’s Shield

Shield Gate still activades. You have an instant to notice that, but if you are taaking no damage because you are invisible, the sound of your shields just getting destroyed should be the cue to STOP SHOOTING OR YOU WILL KILL ME, PLAYER!

13 hours ago, ES-Flinter said:

The shields from the enemies are removed, when Nyx hit the mech with Psychic bolt. And with 0 Shields there's no shieldgate.

We are talking about Ash, not the mechs.

[844448]

3 hours ago, xcrimsonlegendx said:

I just had a game where the mech was literally invincible, for like 12 minutes straight. It just would not lower its shield, everyone kept killing themselves until they quit.

I suspect you and your teammates happened to blow your loads on the necramech enough to give it 12 minutes worth of shield hp

[ES-Flinter]

vor 20 Minuten schrieb Kaotyke:

We are talking about Ash, not the mechs.

Who is we?

Because originally I did only responded to BansheePrimes comment that Physic bolts also remove the shields of the enemy which makes the mech completely defenseless and I quoted Tesseract, because I partly disagree with him, because imo has the reflection ability of the mechs to go away.

I only quoted you to clarify that I was talking about the enemy shields. I did never mention that I get hit by the mech, but I did mentioned that I kill myself thanks to the reflect ability of the mech. The part as an Ash main was only to clarify that I'm reduced to my atmos if my attacks gets reflected, because not even a trinity can save me from a attack with +500k damage and a guaranteed slash proc which last around 10s. Normally I would have qouted you with this.

[Kaotyke]

30 minutes ago, ES-Flinter said:

Who is we?

... me and the guy I was quotingbefore you joined in.

[SargionMagara]

15 hours ago, Lichformed said:

Necramechs for a non-metaslave are absolutely no fun.

It's either instakill them or don't have any fun.

That's not true. I'm a non-metaslave all my life in Warframe because i theme my frames with a certain concept, and assign weaponry accordingly...and no, Necramech fight is fun for me. As i'm a solo player mainly, it forces me so that i have to know what i'm doing, and challenges me to use every resource i have to stay alive and win the fight. Heck, i'm even utilizing K-drives in the battle for the brief invincibility after riding when changing to Operator won't make it in time, and recovering my Energy through the mod "Juice". It's awesome. If anything, the Gravemines explosion radius feels a little bit larger than the visuals, but it's nothing major for me.

 

15 hours ago, Lichformed said:

Also I love Bloodborne, up in my all time favourite games and it has taught me to be an offensive dodger, and it feels so damn bad when you do a cool dodge slide under their one armed melee attack, flick to their backback AND IT'S IMMUNE FOR NO REASON

That's just probably a bad timing where the Shield turns on right when you dodged to it's back. And while of course everyone has their own right to choose their own playstyle, being an offensive dodger in Warframe doesn't seem as rewarding as it does in Soulsborne series anyways, it's a different genre of a game afterall. Might as well play it safe, but that might be just me.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

On 2020-09-01 at 10:28 PM, DeMonkey said:

I don't know if you can class this as a "Non-metaslave" review. I absolutely abhor using the meta, and deliberately don't one shot it, however this review is not representative of my opinion.

I use the Soma Prime, Imperator Vandal or Prisma Gorgon against them, none of which anyone would dream of declaring meta, and 0 armour stripping. I'm still perfectly capable of doing vault runs. There is logic at play in the fight regardless of whether people have experimented with it enough to discover it. Outside of some genuine problems, such as my theory that the Mechs cause each other to activate their shields based on proximity and the instantaneous activation, the fight is largely enjoyable.

Hey monkey boy, you can also just use Defy ;)

[DeMonkey]

2 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Hey monkey boy, you can also just use Defy ;)

I know, like I said, I deliberately don't one shot them. No fun in that.

[Symb10nt]

I've been killing Necramechs with a Nekros and a Stahlta or my Stropha. Also Octavia is literally a set it and forget it Warframe if you are running solo. They are not hard to beat one you know what you're doing

[Electric.Sheep]

i'm confused. doing a lot of damage is considered a "meta-slave"? what if you're the one who came up w/ the weapon/skill synergy to allow yourself to do enough damage to instantly kill the necramech? 

doing a lot of damage and being a "meta-slave" are not mutually inclusive

if you like bloodborne so much then play that. i've done sl1 playthrough in every dark souls game and found similar ways to beat the other games in the soulsborne games. if i want a challenge i play those games. this game will forever be beyond retardedly easy for anyone w/ half a brain, not just the "meta-slaves"

[xcrimsonlegendx]

5 hours ago, 844448 said:

I suspect you and your teammates happened to blow your loads on the necramech enough to give it 12 minutes worth of shield hp

If that's somehow the case, its horribly designed.