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I wonder if DE ever thinks about Casuals.
People like me, who can grind the entire day can access stuff much faster, if i even use boosters its even faster.
While some of my friends can not even catch up and feel left behind.

Content is getting more and more Grindy with every update.
Of course its good to have smth to do in game, but by the Time you grind 1 thing others are way ahead.
So its like when i play, i can experience all the nice stuff because i have so much time on my hands, while my friends can just "taste" a bit and then have to log off and no time to grind.
I mean some of my friends can only log in 2 times a week for 2-3 hours.
Considering you get 2800 Cryotic in 23 Minutes with booster its doubled.. but still its not only cryotic...
Considering helminth eats 3k cryotic... And yeah then there are all the tons of other resources...
I mean my friend only logs in to try getting resources by grinding, then has to log after maybe additionally do a sortie...

And because they are casual they need several WEEKs if not Months to get the stuff i get in 1 session.
Im not sure how to solve this, maybe Stamina buffs ( boosters for being offline?) like some Korean games have.

All i know is i feel very sorry if teammates get frustrated about having no time to play and that being a reason why they can not enjoy the game as much as i can.
 

Edited by Vyra
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I feel the same. Right now only at rank 1 at mother.

I heard that i need to do wildlife hunting to rank further. That is the only thing i hate to do. So never touched that yet. 

Try doing isolation solo. Got destroyed and fail miserably 🤣🤣🤣

I feel like this update definitely not for casual 

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I think this is an unfortunate truth about free-to-play games. The developers desperately need to keep their playerbase, because there is so much competition out there! If a Warframe player decides to take a 1 month break from Warframe, they are likely to find a different game, get sucked in, and then never return to Warframe. I think this is just because the human mind generally likes things that feel new and fresh.

But, there's another side to human psychology as well, which is the fear of missing out, commonly abbreviated as FOMO. The idea being that a player thinks "Well, if I don't play Warframe now, then what if there are exclusive items that I won't be able to get if I return later?" So therefore I must keep playing Warframe! (i.e.: Think: Acolytes, events, plague star, scarlet spear, unique twitch drops [Athodai], etc...)

Since DE is ultimately a business that needs to make profit, and Warframe is free-to-play, they must then choose one of these paths:

1) Make content that is endlessly fun / interesting or super creative so that people feel like it's always fresh and new. Thus keeping players around.

2) Make massive grind for rare items, to keep players hooked with FOMO.

The first option is very difficult, because how do you make content that is endless fun for everybody? The playerbase has so many different kinds of players! Generally, PvE games really struggle with this, because difficult PvE content engages veterans but pushes away casual players. Whereas casual bores veteran players. For PvP games, it's a bit easier because you can choose matchmaking so that players are paired with others of the same skill level. The other benefit of PvP is that human players are far less predictable, whereas AI enemies almost always end up being "cheesable" in a game like Warframe. Therefore, PvP is almost by definition always fresh and interesting. But, PvP is also much harder to balance, especially if you keep adding new things all the time.

The second option is super easy, ignore PvP entirely, forget balancing anything. Instead, just make content with arbitrary wait times, massive RNG with several layers, the combat doesn't need to be interesting at all, etc...

I think DE have leaned into the second option. However, we should be fair. I honestly don't think the devs are actually happy about this. I think they probably wanted to make the first kind of game - certainly the base mobility & gunfight / melee system is ripe for a skill-based PvP / PvE game - but there was simply too much competition so they got forced into the second type in order to survive. There were plenty of other games that started around the same time as Warframe that used the first method and ended up failing within a year or two. DE made the right choice, even though it meant they had to sacrifice what they really wanted. 

Thus, the game is heavily catered towards low-skill players who have a lot of time on their hands. i.e.: no skill needed, but huge amounts of dedication and grind. However, there are indications that DE is trying to modify this. The Deimos update introduced the new fights against enemy Necramechs. Here the player must be careful because there is damage reflection, invulnerability, and various AOE abilities and mechanics to keep them on their toes. Generally, 99% of Warframe's content can be completed most effectively by holding forward and mashing the melee button. Clearly, with these Necramech fights they are trying to bring things back to being more engaging. Personally, I think it's the right idea for the game overall, but whether it's a good business decision will remain to be seen (there have already been a lot of posts in these forums where people complain that the Necramech fights are "too hard"). 

I'm sticking around with Warframe because I still enjoy the mobility system most of all, and the feel of the weapon and melee systems. I would really like to see them try PvP again, and actually balance it properly next time [Making a horribly unbalanced and exploitable PvP, and then choosing to never punish cheaters and exploiters is a surefire way to make your PvP fail]. I'm also hopeful about skill-based PvE due to the Necramech fights. I'm interested to see what the future holds!

The other option is to make PvE more creative (as I mentioned in point (1) above). If DE allowed us to create our own encounters (sort of like modding in many successful PvE games) then the gameplay can be kept endlessly fresh just by the fact that there is an endless influx of new content always awaiting us. I'm honestly surprised they haven't tried some simple version of this yet. For example, allowing players to piece together a tileset, choose where the enemies are located, traps, security measures, etc... and then let a team of players attempt to overcome it. Challenge other teams to beat a particular challenge with a better outcome / time / score, or something... 

Again, I'm cautiously optimistic. The Necramech fights are fresh, but may be nerfed to a "just mash E" state soon due to the recent feedback, will have to see what the future holds :) 

 

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hace 1 hora, Vyra dijo:

I wonder if DE ever thinks about Casuals.
People like me, who can grind the entire day can access stuff much faster, if i even use boosters its even faster.
While some of my friends can not even catch up and feel left behind.

Content is getting more and more Grindy with every update.
Of course its good to have smth to do in game, but by the Time you grind 1 thing others are way ahead.
So its like when i play, i can experience all the nice stuff because i have so much time on my hands, while my friends can just "taste" a bit and then have to log off and no time to grind.
I mean some of my friends can only log in 2 times a week for 2-3 hours.
Considering you get 2800 Cryotic in 23 Minutes with booster its doubled.. but still its not only cryotic...
Considering helminth eats 3k cryotic... And yeah then there are all the tons of other resources...
I mean my friend only logs in to try getting resources by grinding, then has to log after maybe additionally do a sortie...

And because they are casual they need several WEEKs if not Months to get the stuff i get in 1 session.
Im not sure how to solve this, maybe Stamina buffs ( boosters for being offline?) like some Korean games have.

All i know is i feel very sorry if teammates get frustrated about having no time to play and that being a reason why they can not enjoy the game as much as i can.
 

I would never understand why people need to cry in the name of others ..... its amazing ... and sad .

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Game is already very casual focused considering over 90% of the gear on offer is unnecessary to partake in all of the game's content. Good luck finding any F2P that is even half as generous as Warframe already is. If this was any other F2P live service you would have been forced to have all the tiered gear previously released to progress up to the gear required to even attempt ISO vaults. And even if any gear is made mandatory for progression DE will just repeat what they've always done and nerf the requirements; it's practically a guarantee that if Mechs become mandatory that they'll be obtainable in a matter of days by a casual player.

And as for just getting content regardless of its practicality you already aren't expected to finish all of an update in a day or even a week. As well if someone is already behind from taking a break or being new they shouldn't expect to catch up quickly either. It's also not surprising that those with more time to invest will progress faster and you'll find that to be the case in all games even those without a grind.

And that's all without mentioning that the game is a f2p live service game where the grind is part of the monetization and padding to keep people playing between updates.

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il y a une heure, Dreadwire a dit :

I feel the same. Right now only at rank 1 at mother.

It is on you and it is not a big deal. You have time getting there, I think you struggle more with the game mechanics than with game time.

Also I never fed cryotic to Helminth, this resource is outrageous you're right :). I farmed cryotic with cores long time ago and still miss some for a landing stuff xd.

Edited by Galuf
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1 hour ago, Dreadwire said:

I feel the same. Right now only at rank 1 at mother.

I heard that i need to do wildlife hunting to rank further. That is the only thing i hate to do. So never touched that yet. 

Try doing isolation solo. Got destroyed and fail miserably 🤣🤣🤣

I feel like this update definitely not for casual 

I'm probably as casual a player as it gets - I still haven't finished the System Map (because it involves a few nodes that definitely require some high-level modding or a half decent group), and I've not maxed-out any of the open world areas because it takes so long to accumulate enough rep plus the materials/credits required.

That being said, I think this is the most 'casual-friendly' update in a long time.

The biggest hurdle to advancing through Entrati rep is getting a single 'Son' token, which I managed to do on the first day after finding out I could sell one of the new pets for 10 tokens without having to max level it first. Even if they patch that, just take a tranq rifle and capture a few Velocipods - they're everywhere and you can usually walk right up to them without them flying off, so they're 'easy money'. You'll soon get a chance to trade the tags for 'Son' tokens although you might have to wait a day or two until the  'bounty' cycles round.

Other than that, it's just a case of run what you like on Deimos and trade all of the (hundreds!) of 'Mother' tokens you get for rep.

For Isolation Vaults always switch on matchmaking and run in a group - I'm predominantly a solo player, but by doing that I've maxed-out Necraloid rank by getting the chance to run up to 3 Vaults in a row, which gives you all the materials you need to progress

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What are you talking about? DE's entire focus is on casual and new players. Has been for years.

Those grinds and time gates are just there to trap players with new content. It's a fact that playing Warframe content that's 6+ months old is far easier, faster and palatable than during it's release. It's a trick to make it look like there's more content.

Since nothing is exclusive in Warfare there's actually no logical reason to play new content when it's released and take that bait. I haven't played in quite a long time and it doesn't matter because I know when I do play I'll get everything others got far quicker with less annoyance. That's pretty Casual friendly if you ask me.

-------------

If this game was anything but for casuals there would be exclusive items still. The promise made that Ephemera would only be obtained by few players would have been kept. The Focus system would be a true alternate advancement system instead of a kid-mode grind and forget and most importantly there would be end-game.

I can make frames hit the binary cap on damage and get over 1 billion eHP so DE nerfs Enemy HP/Armor scaling and this isn't for casuals?
It sure isn't for veterans or hardcore players so who's it for?

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As a super casual player, with little experience and no desire to grind in games the way MMO's expect you to...yeah a lot of stuff may as well not exist for me. Just finished Pluto yesterday.

If I didn't spend plat on a Wukong, I would have been stuck with the starter Mag until neptune when I built Limbo, because in dozens of hours in casual play, I never had a whole set of blueprints drop, which I have no idea if that's expected or not cause of how casual I am, and it was annoying, and disappointing being "forced" through rng drops to only have the Mag for months. My rng is so bad that I STILL don't have a heated damage mod for my primary. 

 

I still have no idea what a rail jack is, or helminth, or subsuming, or sortie, forma is a big question mark...These are just words I've picked up since looking at this site. This game might be casual friendly, but it absolutely is not newbie-friendly. This is some Monster Hunter tier stuff where it takes hundreds of hours to understand the basics and reach the "real game" which to me looks like those super flashy frames that just kill everything in seconds and will forever be out of my reach because I'm just not that kind of person who can grind the same game for 700-1000 hours and tell myself I'm having fun.

Edited by (PS4)CheeZeeDikt8R
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Much depends on your definition of casual.

This morning before heading for work, I went to the Plains, tranq'ed some condrocs and dispatched a random Thumper that scared my birds away. That was some quality 20 minutes to start the day with but I'm definitely not missing out on anything if that was the only gaming time I get this week.

 

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I'm pretty casual, if waiting until my kids are in bed and playing a few hours at night counts as casual.  I have all building currently.  First thing when update launched though was to buy a 3 day resource booster like I did in the other zones and I ran as a Nekros because I knew I'd need new resources.

All of my runs accept maybe 3 or 4 were grabbing bounty from Mother and loading into random squads.

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I work 40 hours a week and play around 1h30 to 2h per day on average. Been like that for 4 years at least, with huge breaks away from warframe, and I was nearly maxed on everything before Deimos came out.

It's fine imo

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The thing is, you will always have a state where those willing or able to play more have more stuff than those who play less.

And if everything is pitched for more casual players (I consider myself to straddle the line between casual and veteran because I play a few hours a night if I'm in the mood, but have been playing since 2014 and while I am awful, I am charming enough that I have friends in my clan willing to basically carry me though stuff which soon mounts up) then it becomes too quickly done for veterans, who start complaining about content droughts getting bored and leaving.

Sustainable design isn't about keeping you feeling rewarded this month, it's about making sure you are still here in a few years time.

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Warframe is not necessarily the game for casual players. That's not in the sense of "you have to be This Good to play this game" - Warframe is pretty easy, and you can generally complete anything and everything in the game with no particular system mastery. 

However, in the sense of "You better have This Much Free Time" to play this game? Yeah, Warframe does not favor casual players. 

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9 hours ago, Vyra said:

I wonder if DE ever thinks about Casuals.
People like me, who can grind the entire day can access stuff much faster, if i even use boosters its even faster.
While some of my friends can not even catch up and feel left behind.

Content is getting more and more Grindy with every update.
Of course its good to have smth to do in game, but by the Time you grind 1 thing others are way ahead.
So its like when i play, i can experience all the nice stuff because i have so much time on my hands, while my friends can just "taste" a bit and then have to log off and no time to grind.
I mean some of my friends can only log in 2 times a week for 2-3 hours.
Considering you get 2800 Cryotic in 23 Minutes with booster its doubled.. but still its not only cryotic...
Considering helminth eats 3k cryotic... And yeah then there are all the tons of other resources...
I mean my friend only logs in to try getting resources by grinding, then has to log after maybe additionally do a sortie...

And because they are casual they need several WEEKs if not Months to get the stuff i get in 1 session.
Im not sure how to solve this, maybe Stamina buffs ( boosters for being offline?) like some Korean games have.

All i know is i feel very sorry if teammates get frustrated about having no time to play and that being a reason why they can not enjoy the game as much as i can.
 

Casual game doesn't mean that, it means you don't need any skill or strategy to win and they are generally less impegnative than a normal game and with short sessions. They are low budget productions and they generally uses dirt tricks "to keep you login the day after".

although WF has practically every previous characteristics, it doesn't rely  on "short sessions",  this game is not a casual game, it's just a "hardcore" grind game, the only objective is to farm stuff, trying them and (re)farm more other stuff.

If you overplayed it in the past maybe you can now just play less than 1 hour at day and relax yourself but if you are a new player and you wanna play all the new contents and maximize every syndicate standing, it's just a suicide but if you like to play the same boring missions 10 hours at day...

Edited by bibmobello
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Also lets be practical here:
Warframe exists because the people at DE can pay for food rent video games and other essentials by making Warframe available to us all.
There are ways to monetize casual players with definitionally less commitment to the game (do not think this is a slight on them I have opinions on the parasocial creation of 'brand loyalty' that do not belong here) but they are generally predatory and hostile and rightly reviled.

That means DE has to monetize from its more committed players, and in turn has to cultivate them, cater to them, which in turn means giving them things to work towards.
And in the great scheme of things, pitching a resource sink (which helps the in game economy) which also incentivizes buying resource boosters? It's not the worst thing they could be doing right now.

I mean unless you think they should produce an AAA standard of visuals and years worth of content while living like anchorites?

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