Enemy Armor Reduction/Stripping (Steel Path related)

[(PSN)SlyFox5679]

Warframes that can do this probably need an update to do it against steel path enemies and such.

as an example i was using a 200 str frost prime build last night on steel path diemos  bounty and my avalanche reduces 80% armor and corrosive projection did the -18% so thats 98% and weapons do the rest it still took awhile to kill one or two enemies.   i was using ingnis wraith heat/corrosive build and kuva nukor heat/mag/rad/corrosive build kill still took a minute or less to kill groups of steel path enemies.  

if warframes that can reduce or strip armor are to be used reliably these abilities with or without mods need to be looked at and fixed.

maybe DE could do this update to fix armor stripping/armor reduction for steel path as a whole. I still have a lot of planets to go through and it would be nice if chipping away at lvl 100's armor didn't take forever solo to kill. this is not a nerf post this is a increase warframe/weapon viablility post for steel path only related content. since i'm more or less rating weapons and warframes on usability in steel path. the roflcoptorlyst boss took forever to kill on steel path but i suppose that was an exception since all other bosses that drop warframes on normal tilesets don't take nearly that long to kill. 

automatic weapons have worked fine but the single fire weapons need more dps to be looked at so shotguns and such could do a better job.

ya know instead of dying in the middle of reloading at the wrong time.

 

heres the link about armor and mods included all of it should be updated for steel path to make things a bit easier.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Armor

[Hardwood]

I went through the Steel Path stripping armor the whole way through. Nyx 2 and Ash 1 both fully strip armor with one application and then my gun/sword one shots the enemy.

Ignis and Nukor are both poor choices for high level enemies. Get something that does big damage and they will die immediately. I use Tombfinger primary, Rubico and Kronen most of the time.

[Tyreaus]

7 hours ago, (PS4)SlyFox5679 said:

as an example i was using a 200 str frost prime build last night on steel path diemos  bounty and my avalanche reduces 80% armor and corrosive projection did the -18% so thats 98% and weapons do the rest it still took awhile to kill one or two enemies.   i was using ingnis wraith heat/corrosive build and kuva nukor heat/mag/rad/corrosive build kill still took a minute or less to kill groups of steel path enemies.  

As far as I know, armour reduction is multiplicative, not additive. So Corrosive Projection reduces armour by 18%, then Avalance reduces 80% of the armour that's remaining - instead of adding on to CP and reducing it by 98%. Corrosive and Heat do the same, reducing...whatever percentages they reduce, based on what's left.

They also have quite big health pools, so it's important to determine whether the long TTK is because their health is so big, or because of armour. You'll be able to tell if you compare the damage number outputs with the damage your weapon should be doing: if it's close, but still taking a month of Sundays to kill an enemy, then it isn't the armour, but the health.

To be clear, I do feel that armour should have some kind of treatment along the lines of shield gating, where there are both passive and active means to work around it (Magnetic disables shield gating, but it can also be nullified by aiming for headshots - compare to armour which is "status proc or bust"). But for what we're working in now, yeah...

[(PSN)SlyFox5679]

6 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

As far as I know, armour reduction is multiplicative, not additive. So Corrosive Projection reduces armour by 18%, then Avalance reduces 80% of the armour that's remaining - instead of adding on to CP and reducing it by 98%. Corrosive and Heat do the same, reducing...whatever percentages they reduce, based on what's left.

They also have quite big health pools, so it's important to determine whether the long TTK is because their health is so big, or because of armour. You'll be able to tell if you compare the damage number outputs with the damage your weapon should be doing: if it's close, but still taking a month of Sundays to kill an enemy, then it isn't the armour, but the health.

To be clear, I do feel that armour should have some kind of treatment along the lines of shield gating, where there are both passive and active means to work around it (Magnetic disables shield gating, but it can also be nullified by aiming for headshots - compare to armour which is "status proc or bust"). But for what we're working in now, yeah...

ok so how could DE fix this issue in steel path where the usual warframes that reduce or strip armor can be improved to actually do the job?.

i'm using my config B on frost prime to freeze enemies longer just to make it easier to kill them so not so much armor reduction on enemies as CC needed.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

40 minutes ago, (PS4)SlyFox5679 said:

ok so how could DE fix this issue in steel path where the usual warframes that reduce or strip armor can be improved to actually do the job?.

i'm using my config B on frost prime to freeze enemies longer just to make it easier to kill them so not so much armor reduction on enemies as CC needed.

The Steel Path is fine. DE doesn't need to do anything. Enemy EHP was already nerfed. Try some different configurations and play around a bit. Experiment instead of running to the forums to try to change everything that gives you the slightest resistance....

Edit: sorry didn't mean to sound so rude. But enemies are seriously weak enough. Just try some different weapons. And you actually did a good job of even knowing to strip that much armor and modding accordingly.

 

[Tyreaus]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)SlyFox5679 said:

ok so how could DE fix this issue in steel path where the usual warframes that reduce or strip armor can be improved to actually do the job?.

i'm using my config B on frost prime to freeze enemies longer just to make it easier to kill them so not so much armor reduction on enemies as CC needed.

There's kind of two parts to this question, as I see it.

First is the whole issue about "usual Warframes" not being suitable for bits of content. IMO, that is a bit bigger than just Steel Path. The only thing Steel Path does is showcase the problem on centre stage. Just take Loki, for example: used to be really good when CC was top-notch, but now that damage is king, he's pretty far down on the proverbial tier list. In regular Starchart gameplay, that's not usually an issue, because ordinary weapons get through that content just fine. But note how that has basically nothing to do with Loki. The person playing him just so happens to have weapons that can make up for his total lack of damage capabilities.

On the other end are Warframes like Saryn. In-between you might have things like Frost or Atlas.

If we were to tweak armour in some way so that Steel Path becomes more doable for those kind of Warframes, all it does is push the underlying problem back into the cellar. You'll probably still notice those top-of-the-line frames breezing and/or blazing through the content, and while doable, the other frames would be struggling.

Second part is just about tweaking armour and/or armour scaling. For that, plenty of people have talked about not making armour scale with level. I'd say you could just as easily make the reduction based on the armour's damage reduction value instead of the armour value itself. That would mean 80% armour strip would not be 80% of 27,000 armour but, rather, 80% of the 98% damage reduction from that 27,000 armour. In the former case, the armour drops to ~5,400 and the damage reduction drops to about 95%. In the latter case, the damage reduction simply drops to 20% of 98%, or about 19.5%.

Both ways, it's not really Steel Path. Steel Path just highlights the issues that have always been there.

[(PSN)SlyFox5679]

36 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:

There's kind of two parts to this question, as I see it.

First is the whole issue about "usual Warframes" not being suitable for bits of content. IMO, that is a bit bigger than just Steel Path. The only thing Steel Path does is showcase the problem on centre stage. Just take Loki, for example: used to be really good when CC was top-notch, but now that damage is king, he's pretty far down on the proverbial tier list. In regular Starchart gameplay, that's not usually an issue, because ordinary weapons get through that content just fine. But note how that has basically nothing to do with Loki. The person playing him just so happens to have weapons that can make up for his total lack of damage capabilities.

On the other end are Warframes like Saryn. In-between you might have things like Frost or Atlas.

If we were to tweak armour in some way so that Steel Path becomes more doable for those kind of Warframes, all it does is push the underlying problem back into the cellar. You'll probably still notice those top-of-the-line frames breezing and/or blazing through the content, and while doable, the other frames would be struggling.

Second part is just about tweaking armour and/or armour scaling. For that, plenty of people have talked about not making armour scale with level. I'd say you could just as easily make the reduction based on the armour's damage reduction value instead of the armour value itself. That would mean 80% armour strip would not be 80% of 27,000 armour but, rather, 80% of the 98% damage reduction from that 27,000 armour. In the former case, the armour drops to ~5,400 and the damage reduction drops to about 95%. In the latter case, the damage reduction simply drops to 20% of 98%, or about 19.5%.

Both ways, it's not really Steel Path. Steel Path just highlights the issues that have always been there.

I don't have a huge problem with most enemy armor, i think the warframes and weapons are the problem and need to be buffed to compensate for this.

two things came to mind either pump up the warframes base stats in armor,health,damage abilities which would probably work better if DE decide to raise rank level to 40 for all frames.  or raise the damage for elemental mods which may help a lot but ONLY in steel path mode. so say some kind of steel path only mods giving them an extra 30-60% elemental damage so your 60/60 mods go to 90/90 or 90 to 120 or something along those lines so it doesn't break the whole game since steel path is its own thing and it would make sense that mods could get stronger for steel path mode. 

also as a side note i'm no rookie on this game i've been on PS4 for six years playing and currently MR28 and have my MR29 test to do.

[(PSN)SlyFox5679]

9 hours ago, Hardwood said:

I went through the Steel Path stripping armor the whole way through. Nyx 2 and Ash 1 both fully strip armor with one application and then my gun/sword one shots the enemy.

Ignis and Nukor are both poor choices for high level enemies. Get something that does big damage and they will die immediately. I use Tombfinger primary, Rubico and Kronen most of the time.

honestly i've been using inaros prime w/gram prime for a majority of missions unless its a defense of some kind.

i built all the kitgun primaries and i'm on the fence atm if they will do the job but if you think its worth a try i'll take a look.

[Tyreaus]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)SlyFox5679 said:

also as a side note i'm no rookie on this game i've been on PS4 for six years playing and currently MR28 and have my MR29 test to do.

That's a weird side-note, especially since I've spoken to similarly experienced people who didn't know about Corrosive's "double-dip" bonus against Ferrite armour, so...cool, I guess?

As far as your propositions go...if you think that's what'll help, advocate away. I think it's addressing a symptom rather than the root problem, which is bound to create strife with the difficulty-craving crowd. But maybe that's just me.

[ShortCat]

17 hours ago, (PS4)SlyFox5679 said:

-snip-

If you cannot fully strip armor, do not even bother doing so. Even 10% remaining armor will provide enough damage resistance to mitigate a big chunk of your damage. This is the reason corrosive based builds are subpar with the status cap.
Go armor ignore instead.