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Helminth feeding cost are where they should be


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1 minute ago, sly_squash said:

As long as you're not rushing subsumes and pacing the helminth leveling so that it'll unlock more subsume slots precisely when they are needed and no earlier, you'll generally be OK.

That’s the thing, nobody has even have enough time to subsume 10 frames yes so it’s impossible to know if pacing is too slow on xp.

All I know is, I’ve hit no bottlenecks whatsoever with back to back subsumes and green-only feedings.

And nobody has any right to complain about anything beyond rank 7. Like, that would be truly pathetic whining at that point.

If 20 subsume abilities ain’t enough then I don’t even know what to say.

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2 minutes ago, Hokibukisa said:

That’s the thing, nobody has even have enough time to subsume 10 frames yes so it’s impossible to know if pacing is too slow on xp.

Well, you can rush subsumes now, so you can force the "subsume" pacing to go faster than the "subsume slot unlocking" pacing if you spend plat. But obviously doing so is shortsighted since the helminth appetite isn't going to reset until it was originally supposed to complete the subsume so now you're left with an open subsume slot and nothing to feed it to begin a new subsume.

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12 minutes ago, Hokibukisa said:

Consider this, people who don’t have a lot of disposable resources:

Originally the barrier to entry was intended to be much higher. This system wasn’t even for you in the first place.

I have no problem with the resource costs but I just want to point out that I met the original MR requirement and only have like 400 hours in game, so I don’t have near the amount of resources to complete it. Which is fine, just saying the original MR15 barrier would not have done much to prevent this reaction from some people.

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The cost is to high for bile I’ve been playing for 3 years some of y’all understand but I see some of these warframe white knights defending it we not saying remove the secretion system just make it reasonable and make it to where I could maybe you know experiment what is gonnna happen is people are gonna YouTube the best builds and only use those and never branch out ISNT THAT THE REASON ROAR WAS NERFED?!?!? I really don’t understand the cost especially for bile it’s ridiculous and no I’m not rushing it but bile ask for only rare and R.J. resources and uses ALOT of bile to subsume an ability not to mention slapping it on something please DE just a cost reduction maybe please and thank u i love the system other than that tho great job

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Well, I personally don't mind that much the costs, I am not a vet (7 months, MR20, around 1300 in game hours I think) and yes the costs are VERY high for some things, but in Warframe, some things are a lot more tedious to farm than others. However It is true that I would appreciate a change some prices that seem absurd compared to others.

However, I am very disappointed in one thing : Costs for Infusing abilities into other warframes. Having big costs for one subsuming might be normal if it is intended to be VERY late game and even a challenge to veterans, but I would love to be able to infuse already unlocked abilities for no costs. Having costs for infusing, even if the costs are not that high compared to subsuming, if stops experimentation.

For example, I want to try and put Revenant's Reave on my Mirage, but I don't know at all if all the Mirage copies will create a Reave. And since I don't know for sure if it works, and I don't use mirage that much, I am not that tempted into trying it out. And if it doesn't work, I might as well go and use a meta that everyone uses, because I don't want to spend too much resources for something that doesn't work.

 

TL;DR: Just removing the costs for infusing abilities to other warframes would keep the challenging aspect of the costs (if that was the intention), while allowing to experiment freely !

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5 hours ago, (XB1)AMONGTHEWEAK said:

Here is the scenario I am seeing on the forums.

"I want to subsume all these powerful abilities and put them on all my Warframes, but the cost are too high. It's not fair. I feel like DE is forcing me to give up all my resources. This is only made for the meta players. I hate giving up my stuff for more power and customization of Warframes. It's not worth it. "

For those that feel like they have to 100% the Helminth and sacrifice all their Warframes and Resources right off the bat. 

1. DE is not forcing anyone to give up anything to the Helminth, be it a Warframe or your resources.

2. You don't have to subsume every single non-prime frame right away which would take 1012 Hrs or 42.5 days roughly for 44 Frames, and it would deplete most if not all players resources.

3. You don't have to apply every ability you subsume in every different combination to every Warframe.

4. You don't have to use all of your resources up to subsume and place the abilities in every combination.

5. It's optional. But it's there. DE gives you a chance to sacrifice something in order to gain more power potentially for every frame.

6. You don't have to have 100% in Helminth in one day or week for that matter, so chill.

7. Who's forcing you to do anything you don't want to do? If the system is not worth it to you, then don't use it. Don't want to pay for the power. Don't want to sacrifice your precious digital resources, and Warframes? Then don't. 

 

Did you all expect a system like this to be free or even cheap for that matter? 

"Why did DE give us a system if it's too expensive and we cannot use it?"

"It's not available for the average casual player"

Well you can use it, once you have the required materials, frames etc. It should not be an available system to the early player but they allowed them to have access to it. Now the resource requirement will weed out most new players. 

 

Who knows maybe DE will cave to these children who want everything now and lower or eliminate the resource cost all together. And while they are at it, they might as well remove the cost of sacrificing the Warframe, because I'm sure someone is out there crying about that too. 

 

It cost a lot because it's worth it. I have only subsumed 2 abilities so far. The resource cost vs what I gained was worth everything I paid for it. I don't plan on subsuming every warframe but maybe a couple more over the next few weeks. 

 

DE needs to not cave in on this one. But if they follow through like they already have with the Entrati syndicate standing, they probably will. 

 

Just don't come crying for more endgame content or more challenging content. Your lack of resources is a challenge DE is presenting you. It's just coming in a form you don't like. 

 

This all being said. I know the cost is very expensive. But no one is forcing you to give up all your resources, especially right away. Pick the frames you want to subsume and the frames you want to put their abilities on and just take your time going down the list. 23hours between each subsume is more than enough time to get the resources for your next subsume. Even without a booster. 

 

DE is giving us the opportunity for more power and the potential to play with our old dusty frames again in a new way. Is the price not worth it?  

 

 

 

 

TLDR 

Blah blah blah , I have too many reasources, so all the player that dont can go jump in a lake.

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2 minutes ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

FTFY Though the railjack and Bile resources really are completely out of whack

FTFTFY

Just to let you know I can keep this up all day

Edited by Kconvey
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17 hours ago, Kconvey said:

FTFTFY

Just to let you know I can keep this up all day

Oh, me too.

I do agree on some of the Railjack resources; Fresnels, Bracoids, and Asterite are completely absurd, Isos and Titanium could use some slight tuning, and you might argue the same for the 4 common ones, though I believe that if Railjack had any relevancy, people would be swimming in those. Bile is fine. You can cycle between Morphics, Argon, Isos and Sludge quite easily, if, as I said, you take your time and wait for hunger to reset.

Edited by (XB1)ShonFr0st
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1 minute ago, RiceHat_ said:

Some resources are cost too much, enough said.

Right now to keep up, you pretty much would be needing to run nekros only with resources boosters constantly

And thats getting into pay to win territory and defeating the purpose of having Helminth to play more than the few frames the entire playerbase plays.

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I understand the resource cost for RJ resources are more expensive for a rare resource in comparison to a common resource. Maybe DE intended this, assuming DE actually knows their own game. But judging by players reactions, most are not comfortable giving up that much at once. A lot of things don't make sense in this game. 

Does the majority just want the rare RJ resources brought down to a comfortable ratio vs the common resources for the Bile? Or does the majority want to get rid of the rest of the costs beside the initial sacrifice of the Warframe, so they can just sacrifice their Warframe and that would be the end of all costs? 

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6 minutes ago, (XB1)AMONGTHEWEAK said:

I understand the resource cost for RJ resources are more expensive for a rare resource in comparison to a common resource. Maybe DE intended this, assuming DE actually knows their own game. But judging by players reactions, most are not comfortable giving up that much at once. A lot of things don't make sense in this game. 

Does the majority just want the rare RJ resources brought down to a comfortable ratio vs the common resources for the Bile? Or does the majority want to get rid of the rest of the costs beside the initial sacrifice of the Warframe, so they can just sacrifice their Warframe and that would be the end of all costs? 

I think a reduction on some of the crazy resources for bile and the crazy RJ would probably fix the system.

Right now you have to wait, run resource booster and farm argon.

Being forced to run resource boosters gets really close to P2W territory.

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11 minutes ago, Kconvey said:

I think a reduction on some of the crazy resources for bile and the crazy RJ would probably fix the system.

Right now you have to wait, run resource booster and farm argon.

Being forced to run resource boosters gets really close to P2W territory.

I don't feel forced and don't have a resource booster, except when I choose one if there is an option from the daily log-in. I'll run Nekros here and there, but I play what I enjoy. Is the player really being forced into that position though to buy a booster? 

I agree and see where players are coming from in regards to the ratio of resources required for rare vs common in some instances. 

Edited by (XB1)AMONGTHEWEAK
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there are tiers of cost efficiency

you are supposed to use the efficient resources first then move to medium-inefficient ones, then to general railjack resources which are bit inefficient, and as a last resort there is the truly inefficient option of uncommon and rare rj resources that is inadvisable to use, and generally unnecessary

the reason for this is to slow progress. if all resources were efficient, helminth investing would be a dumb whack a mole excercise - click the green arrow n times and voila

because helminth system is for "very experienced players" the game doesn't hold your hand in this process and tell you in which order you should do it

it's like a mini game

if you do it the wrong way the consequences are real and severe. it's really possible to spend irrationally and soft-brickwall yourself

when people complain about this, they want a world without consequences

Edited by Traubenzuckr
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2 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said:

there are tiers of cost efficiency

you are supposed to use the efficient resources first then move to medium-inefficient ones, then to general railjack resources which are bit inefficient, and as a last resort there is the truly inefficient option of uncommon and rare rj resources that is inadvisable to use, and generally unnecessary

the reason for this is to slow progress. if all resources were efficient, helminth investing would be a dumb whack a mole excercise - click the green arrow n times and voila

because helminth system is for "very experienced players" the game doesn't hold your hand in this process and tells you in which order you should do it

it's like a mini game

if you do it the wrong way the consequences are real and severe

when people complain about this, they want a world without consequences

And there should be consequences. But systems with consequences are going away in the game. Sadly I can see DE eliminating the resource costs all together or maybe cutting them way back to where its affordable for everyone, which is how a good portion of people are making it sound like they want. Make it easier for a newbie to throw away a frame because they don't really understand what they're getting into.

Hopefully new players know to do their research or at least ask a player they trust about the system.

"Let me sacrifice this Warframe and see what happens!"

"Where'd my Warframe go!? I didn't want to lose it! That's what sacrifice meant? I hate this game! I quit!"

*Goes back to playing fortnite*

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On 2020-09-02 at 5:19 PM, (XB1)AMONGTHEWEAK said:

6. You don't have to have 100% in Helminth in one day or week for that matter, so chill.

True.

23 hours ago, Miser_able said:

FOR THE 50TH TIME. IT'S NOT ALL RESOURCES WE WANT REDUCED. JUST THE RAILJACK RESOURCES.

I have a fully maxed out mk3 railjack and 8888 intrinsics. I don't care about doing railjack anymore, but some of these resources such as titanium, asterite and fresnels are way too high WHEN COMPARED TO OTHER FEEDING OPTIONS. Why would I farm 1000 freaking fresnels when I could just go to the orb vallis and grab 50 thermal sludge? Why are fresnels (A rare resource) being fed in higher amounts than thermal sludge ( a super common resource)?

Also true.

This has been the problem and even I see it - all of my other resources are fine(still have millions of them), except that ^ ones and I'm only at level 5(didn't rush or do anything except the thing de gave me, didn't exploit the infuse-delete-infuse-delete-infuse-delete thing, just fed it and subsumed wf).

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16 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said:

there are tiers of cost efficiency

you are supposed to use the efficient resources first then move to medium-inefficient ones, then to general railjack resources which are bit inefficient, and as a last resort there is the truly inefficient option of uncommon and rare rj resources that is inadvisable to use, and generally unnecessary

the reason for this is to slow progress. if all resources were efficient, helminth investing would be a dumb whack a mole excercise - click the green arrow n times and voila

I actually quite like this way of putting it.

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2 minutes ago, vegetosayajin said:

True.

Also true.

This has been the problem and even I see it - all of my other resources are fine(still have millions of them), except that ^ ones and I'm only at level 5(didn't rush or do anything except the thing de gave me, didn't exploit the infuse-delete-infuse-delete-infuse-delete thing, just fed it and subsumed wf).

I haven't touched my Helminth in a few days, because I really only wanted two abilities right now to mess around with. Everyone will have their own goals and desires, and the way they have played the game up till this point and the value they put into the resources they are willing to feed to the Helminth, will affect how they view this system. 

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24 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said:

there are tiers of cost efficiency

you are supposed to use the efficient resources first then move to medium-inefficient ones, then to general railjack resources which are bit inefficient, and as a last resort there is the truly inefficient option of uncommon and rare rj resources that is inadvisable to use, and generally unnecessary

the reason for this is to slow progress. if all resources were efficient, helminth investing would be a dumb whack a mole excercise - click the green arrow n times and voila

because helminth system is for "very experienced players" the game doesn't hold your hand in this process and tell you in which order you should do it

it's like a mini game

if you do it the wrong way the consequences are real and severe. it's really possible to spend irrationally and soft-brickwall yourself

when people complain about this, they want a world without consequences

TLDR I also have too many resources and think everyone who doesnt needs to suffer for no good reason.

But really I dont think this is what they intended, I just think they expected us to run way way more railjack than anyone actually does.

Edited by Kconvey
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8 minutes ago, Kconvey said:

TLDR I also have too many resources and think everyone who doesnt needs to suffer for no good reason.

But really I dont think this is what they intended, I just think they expected us to run way way more railjack than anyone actually does.

It's not like they couldn't just check what the averages of what each player has for each resource at any given MR to see who has more of what resource.

DE appears to assume more than actually doing their research about their own players and game. 

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11 minutes ago, Kconvey said:

TLDR I also have too many resources and think everyone who doesnt needs to suffer for no good reason.

But really I dont think this is what they intended, I just think they expected us to run way way more railjack than anyone actually does.

my post wasn't long at all, just a few sentences

when you say "tldr" as a reaction you're obviously faking it

 

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43 minutes ago, Kconvey said:

TLDR I also have too many resources and think everyone who doesnt needs to suffer for no good reason.

But really I dont think this is what they intended, I just think they expected us to run way way more railjack than anyone actually does.

TLDR: I don't have enough resources and so they should change it for me.

That's what I'd say if I were acting like you. Instead I'll just point out that this isn't meant for newer players so you might just have to work away at it for a while in order to be able to enjoy it. There's nothing wrong with long term goals in an MMO, most of them have them.

Edited by -CdG-Zilchy
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I agree with you buddy, the vast majority of resources and amounts needed to feed the helminth are on spot, it's supposed to be a "experienced player feature" but oh well... i guess mr 8 who just ended the tutorial (Considering Second dream/War within the actual end of the tutorial) are experienced enough players.

There are a few resources that are kind of high, like the Rare resources from railjack, the drop is that high in a per-mission basis to actually request that much.

All in all loved to read someone analysed it in depth

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