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Doesn't the Helminth currently go against it's own purpose?.


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5 hours ago, (PS4)Mofojokers said:

It's definitely always been a flaw of theirs but always give them credit for taking the feedback in and trying to push foward what normally feels like how things should of been at the start. I do feel they need people like Brozime to give direct feedback on things before releasing them to the public.

Has he ever been wrong?, i don't think anyone comes close to his level of dedication and knowledge of the game. Regardless if the DE team call themselves players they will never see the systems they design from our point of view.

(S.h.i.t)Streamers can dunk their heads in acid for all i care. Never watched any of them, and never will.

I doubt DE is going to change when the game is profitable as it is. Maybe when that finally changes they will actually try, but at that point it's propably going to be too late.

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5 minutes ago, (PS4)Yggranya said:

(S.h.i.t)Streamers can dunk their heads in acid for all i care. Never watched any of them, and never will.

I doubt DE is going to change when the game is profitable as it is. Maybe when that finally changes they will actually try, but at that point it's propably going to be too late.

Installing mods on weapons and Warframes used to cost credits apparently. The Helminth system is a repainted modding system with extra steps, just like Arcanes.

It's weird how they backtrack on their mistakes when introducing new systems which are fundamentally old systems with new paint.

Still, we have Viral/Hunter Munitions/Slash which is just the old Armor Piercing from Damage 1.0 with extra steps. Before endo and fusion cores, the way to rank up mods was to get several copies just like Arcanes.

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18 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

couldn't they do it on a per frame basis? like nidus can take hundreds of hours to farm, maybe feeding him should maybe only have cost 1% across the board ? rather than "done your week long grind just for the parts? waiting 4 days for the construction? good now farm me 12000 cryotic and I will think about eating him"

I don't think so because over 75% of the frames would then require basically nothing which defeats the purpose of it being a resource sink.

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12 hours ago, (PS4)Mofojokers said:

I would counter that current Helminth system works against that goal. That if they can understand what the community is trying to say regarding it in this thread then they would succeed in creating more long term player driven content.

The thing its DE its a corporation, they have to bee seen as attractive to their shareholders and new investors, they need to push those numbers the most they can, if you see when Railjack came, the grind was intense, the community complained, they lowered it, kuva litch was the same, every time they put content they push the most grind possible until players complaint.

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9 hours ago, (PS4)Yggranya said:

(S.h.i.t)Streamers can dunk their heads in acid for all i care. Never watched any of them, and never will.

I doubt DE is going to change when the game is profitable as it is. Maybe when that finally changes they will actually try, but at that point it's propably going to be too late.

I have to hope it's not too late and the community feedback will take hold.

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18 hours ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

Installing mods on weapons and Warframes used to cost credits apparently. The Helminth system is a repainted modding system with extra steps, just like Arcanes.

It's weird how they backtrack on their mistakes when introducing new systems which are fundamentally old systems with new paint.

Still, we have Viral/Hunter Munitions/Slash which is just the old Armor Piercing from Damage 1.0 with extra steps. Before endo and fusion cores, the way to rank up mods was to get several copies just like Arcanes.

Its why community feedback and discussion is super important on new systems.

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On 2020-09-02 at 11:47 PM, anarchy753 said:

Absolutely.

By all means, subsuming should cost a bunch, and feeding should too, but actually adding and removing abilities should be entirely free (but also not give XP)

This.  I’ve stepped away from HoD for now.  Not participating and not financially rewarding DE is the truest way to make my voice heard.

To be clear:

Warframe is still my game, and DE my studio.  I reward for fun, entertaining grind.  Beautiful as the art of HoD is, and as enticing as Helminth was when hyped, I can’t right now.

 

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On 2020-09-03 at 2:34 PM, Lichformed said:

 

Now every casual player and their mother has had easy access to rivens, arcanes and now Helminth.

 

I dont see a world where arcanes , rivens or helminth swapping can make someone overpowered in warframe , the truth is we already are without them.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2020-09-06 at 1:45 AM, killerJoke66 said:

Also remember on the first day of HoD lunch , the requiremnt from from 0 to 1 was 4 son tokens and there was no way you could get it ? i remember that , and who even put that there ?? i was like a big 'what' face 

Yes another insanely odd choice!.

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On 2020-09-02 at 6:59 PM, (PS4)Mofojokers said:

This is true but the sheer cost of trying different abilities is absurd. Even if i meta each frame in one slot maybe a secondary for x activity and leave the third for fun. Constanly swapping up my fun one is just not ok considering the cost each time.

You realize that the resources in this game isn't finite like real life right? If you're limited by how much you can infuse then this would make sense.

 

 

Everything can be grinded for, the Helminth isn't a timed event, it's not a system that will just up and walk away. Just let it happen as you play the game.

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12 hours ago, (PS4)GingyGreen said:

You realize that the resources in this game isn't finite like real life right? If you're limited by how much you can infuse then this would make sense.

 

 

Everything can be grinded for, the Helminth isn't a timed event, it's not a system that will just up and walk away. Just let it happen as you play the game.

I don't think you understand my thread and that's ok i really suck at explaining things.

I have most frames in the game already done with my Helminth maxed and all my frames with their meta builds.

My point is regarding the costs verse fun. Swapping abilities up should be encouraged to do quirky builds. But the cost itself of swapping between abilities is annoying and counter to it.

The amount of content gained from us who sit at the end that could really fine alot of fun with mucking about with the system are 100% turned off if i need to give up alot of materials just for a silly build then paying again to swap it off.

Instead it's just Helminth - slot meta ability X , Y and Z. Imagine if you unlocked the ability on subsume thay allowed you try constantly try silly builds. Could even make it worth throwing Loki ability on something lol.

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Personally my opinion to fix this issue would be that the first subsumed ability change costs the same, but after that, you get the option to swap w/e is currently subsumed on to a warframe, for any other unlocked one for 2-5% of every helminth secretion. That way, there is still a resource sink, but experimenting is encouraged for being relatively cheap to partake in.

Or each time you infuse an ability in to a specific frame it reduces the costs by 25% down to a minimum of 10-20% for that one frame. This would also encourage diverse slot infusions as for B and C loadout you have a reduced overall cost.

It would make sense that each time helminth infuses a warframe it becomes more efficient as it "learns" more about that particular one.

Edited by More-L
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Well, TL;DR

On 2020-09-03 at 3:45 AM, (PS4)Mofojokers said:

But i find myself selecting just the most useful abilities per frame over silly or fun ones. Mainly because the overwhelming cost to change them up and the bile.. o god the bile.

And here I'm swapping abilities for a Nezha's Firewalker. You can swim/dive with fire. You can Reave (Revenant) with fire. You can roll leaving fire path. Or with Protea (for Dispensary).

On 2020-09-03 at 3:45 AM, (PS4)Mofojokers said:

Instead of this is gonna cost me x amount to unlock then x amount to apply i need to be careful and choose the correct ones per frame type.

This system made me replay some of the old frames. The cost is not "for a new player" but it's not "horrible". Unless you want to change all frames...
I made a list of 24 frames that I use and I look some things:
- is some ability bad or boring
- what frame may need: for example spy Ivara could get some speed / auto hack
- is some ability worse than others so I can change it if I find something more interesting

This is the first thing that stops me for infusing random abilities into random frames.
The second is there are some group of similar abilities. So I would pick either Roar or Eclipse. Whatever is "better" (not very precise).
The 2.5 some abilities are boring. It might not matter for X person but for me it is important.
The third is some abilities are nerfed or doesn't have interaction with a frame that I want to infuse into. For example I considered putting a lot of abilities into Mirage but her clones won't "cast" abilities so it made me rethink that. And another example is Protea's dispensary. Original version would be nice. After nerf, you need to put a lot of work to make it "work".
And the last one is overall cost. I don't mean only Helminth resources. That could be "somehow" farmed for at least one infusion. I mean cost of a new frame (time for timing or plat if you want to buy). There are only 3 load-outs but you can build more (afair).

There is probably more... but I need to think where to put firewalker on.🤣

 

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On 2020-09-02 at 9:45 PM, (PS4)Mofojokers said:

Helminth another power creep system or hours of fan made fun content?.

How about "both"? 

It's created the ability to create and optimize some pretty niche builds, but it looks like DE already tried to weed out the ones that would have been way too powerful. Those who want to find new cool things, will. Those who just want power will go that route. This has always been a thing. 

On 2020-09-02 at 9:45 PM, (PS4)Mofojokers said:

How i expected the system to work was we would sink a large amount of resources in to unlocking the abilities. Then we could change them around at will to become part of our builds.

Was anyone expecting it to play out the same way?.

Why were you expecting that? 

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I think people are mostly missing the point of the Helminth System in this thread...

It was designed to be a RESOURCE SINK for ENDGAME/"Vet" players.

It is well-documented here on these forums where people complain that "I have 1,000,000,000 of "x" resource, and nothing to do with it! What's the point?"  

Well, here's something to do with them...   But now it's all "...but I don't WANT to have to use all of "x" resource!  It's asking too much!"

This was meant to be a system for people who literally don't have anything else to farm for currently... so it gives them something to do with their resources AND/OR gives them a reason to farm again...

It was NOT intended as a "Grind to max rank in a week and have all the thingz" system.  

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12 hours ago, (PS4)Mofojokers said:

I don't think you understand my thread and that's ok i really suck at explaining things.

I have most frames in the game already done with my Helminth maxed and all my frames with their meta builds.

My point is regarding the costs verse fun. Swapping abilities up should be encouraged to do quirky builds. But the cost itself of swapping between abilities is annoying and counter to it.

The amount of content gained from us who sit at the end that could really fine alot of fun with mucking about with the system are 100% turned off if i need to give up alot of materials just for a silly build then paying again to swap it off.

Instead it's just Helminth - slot meta ability X , Y and Z. Imagine if you unlocked the ability on subsume thay allowed you try constantly try silly builds. Could even make it worth throwing Loki ability on something lol.

Now it makes a little more sense. While it looks weird that it costs resource to slot ability in-and-out, just think of it as fueling a meat-engine to do it's work, then it's a lot easier to digest. You taught Thomas the Tank Engine how to perform a task. But you still need to feed him a coal to do that trick for you.

 

 

Personally speaking, unless they create a second resource sink as well, I'm okay with this as it is because what else am I going to do with my billions of Rubedo?

 

 

So I get where you're coming from, I just disagree. Atleast until there's another resource sink or two.

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