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Why conservation in Deimos is unpleasant.


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Conservation in general isnt the smoothest system, okay, but its bearable in PoE (Plains of Eidolon) and 4T (Fortuna).

There is RNG on what subtype of animal spawns. It doesnt matter in PoE and 4T. What matters here is the quality of the capture, giving low, medium or high standing for a bad, good or perfect capture. Highest ranking animals give in the thousands range of standing. Getting Perfect captures is a valid way of gaining standing in Poe and 4T.

Why it isnt in HoD:

First off, the RNG of the sub-type spawning. The gear item to spawn more rare animals doesnt matter either, because you need any and all subtypes which brings me to:

You need to combine multiple captures from different animals into tokens. Tokens are vastly less rewarding than the standing gained directly from captures in PoE and 4T.

That being said, capture quality doesnt matter, but thats kind of a side thing.

Tracking footsteps has never been super duper, but its even worse in HoD. The orange atmosphere, lighting, particles and grass makes visibility super bad.

Pathing was kinda weird sometimes, but it has been worse in HoD: strange u-turns followed by another u-turn. Even v-turns on high rocks, making it painstakingly hard to get to the lure spot.

Spawning: well, spawning is... bugged... sometimes. Some animals tend to spawn in terrain. Air borne animals are sometimes nowhere to be found.

If you have any points that I forgot, Ill gladly add them to this post.

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Another thing I hate about it (and fishing too) is that the gear overrides warframe abilities while equipped, liked it more (or hated it less) when equipping these items only replaced the gear wheel.

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I agree with all of that.  I enjoyed conservation on PoE and 4T, but on the Cambion Drift, it's awful.  Some other things to note:

- the color of the animals under the tranq rifle scope being orange.  On ground, this isn't as a big deal, but when you're looking for the avichaea (the birds), you are looking for a bird ( again, highlighted by orange) when the air is full of floating orange particles.  Since the avichaea fly very high up and are already tiny, the glowing orange bird is extremely difficult to tell from the orange particles that are the same size under the scope.  The tranq rifle highlighting shouldn't add to the difficulty.  If they could make the highlighted animal green, it would help.

- the use of the echolure is a pain for people who are hard of hearing

- being constantly interrupted by a steady stream of enemies at the worst times.  it's just #*!%ing annoying and is bad game design.  It's even worse when a glassed enemy explodes near the animal, killing it (as well as any nearby fish).  There's also the fact that both you and other target animals waiting for pick-up are vulnerable while you're forced to pause the game so Son can tell you about whatever you just caught and the capture can be ranked.  This is plenty of time for a deimos jugulus to ambush you with those OP tentacle attacks and kill both you and the other animals.

- you need specific subspecies to get tokens or to increase your rank with Mother.  that doesn't work when you have an RNG system to determine which animals and subspecies spawn each run and the Cambion Drift only has a handful of tracks spawn each outing.

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22 hours ago, selimsrm said:

You forgot the most annoying part of conservation in Deimos.

mCBGR62.png

Indeed haha, I like this enemy type but its very annoying when trying to capture animals. Theres a pack of two waiting for you every time you "blink" once with archwing. 

Another thing thats annoying is theres quite a bit of ranged enemies that seem to just one-shot the smaller animals before you get to capture them. If you stop and kill em all first theres a chance the animals escape (or die). 

Then theres glassmaker that seems to spawn its bubble very often when Im trying to hunt making it even more frustrating. Hurts fishing too... 

The devs should be forced to play animal capture for 2 weeks straight with increased enemy spawns as punishment for our suffering 8D

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Added to how bad captures feel in Deimos is how I'm forced to interact with it in a way that I was not in Fortuna or Plains.

Plains/Fortuna bounties/fish/mining all produced standing which could be spent at the various vendors. So if I wanted to ignore animal captures, which I have, I wasn't penalized for it by not being able to interact with the animal capture vendors.

In Deimos, the only ways of acquiring Son tokens is by capturing animals or paying a ton of platinum, and there isn't even a clear relationship between platinum and tokens because I have to buy tags instead, which may or may not be able to be traded evenly for tokens. There's no option to trade tokens from other vendors, even at unfavorable rates. At the very least, Grandmother should be able to convert her own tokens back into non-Grandmother tokens.

What we are left with is a game mode I have tried very hard to interact with as minimally as possible, but now I have to interact with it a ton, in its worst rng-laden version, because you need 60 (!!!) Son tokens to gild the new pets and get mastery points from them, and there's no clear and direct relationship between tags and tokens the way there was a relationship between captures and generic vendor standing in previous iterations.

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There's also the having to choose between son tokens and floofs; with PoE and Fortuna you'd get a decent chunk of standing which was the main reward, and then having lots of floofs to cover the orbiter with was a nice bonus and made the whole thing seem a lot more fun despite the janky mechanics. With Deimos, son tokens are kind of important, and it makes it seem sort of wasteful to spend 5 tokens on an orbiter decoration when it could be used for progression, which for me turns conservation from a fun activity into a chore.

Edited by EyelessCoffee
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There is a stupid ton of things wrong with hunting and fishing on Deimos, causing constant infuriation. Fish randomly despawn out of nowhere. Or don’t spawn at all, or spawns one at a time. Sometimes the spear doesn’t catch no matter how many times you spear the thing (like there’s no hit box at all) or killls the fish instead of catching it. Vulpaphyla has almost always only one hunt per Deimos run and does not spawn new hunt locations no matter how long you’re out there. CRESCENT VULPAPHYLA ARE NOWHERE TO BE FOUND, pheromones only give me Panzer, and that wouldn’t be so bad except I have to fully load in then out and in to Deimos for only one Vulpaphyla nest most of the time. 
Fass residue is hard to spot for obvious reasons, and isn’t affected by doublers. 

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Just did some conservation. Got 38 tags (with booster). I could purchase TWO (2) Son Tokens upon returning to the Necralisk.

This system is actually just broken.

EDIT: Ran some numbers

If you look at the "good" capture numbers for Plains and Fortuna, averaged across all variants, we can see that 1 random capture on Plains is worth about a thousand standing (1012.5), while on Fortuna 1 random capture is worth about 1600 (1621.43).

Which means that, assuming there was a 1:1 ratio between tags and Son tokens (the ratio is mostly much worse), then conservation is about half as "profitable" in terms of standing on Deimos than it is on the Plains, and less than a THIRD as profitable than on Fortuna. Which would be fine if it wasn't 100% necessary for progression, unlike Plains & Fortuna.

Edited by chadd2badd
adding data
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  • 2 weeks later...

Not happy with conservation in Cambion Drift either.
Not enough 'Start' tracking points for animal captures. With there only being 'Start' tracking point of one or two per map for some animals means having to constantly come and go from Necralisk which also means having to keep hearing the Son interrupt conservation because he keeps talking about the animals we are about to capture.
Often the scat for the start point can't be seen or doesn't appear. They are marked on the map and no scat is to be found at that location.

Tracking is also more tedious than it needs to be because tracks are often too far apart to see clearly even when standing on top of them.
(Would think small birds cant make steps that far apart).

Call Points are in locations where the animal never appears after being called (Avichaea) despite tranq pinging that there is an animal in the area.
When tranq rifle is loaded the ping that tells us there is an animal in the area, really does need to be more like the ping for mining where the closer we are to the animal the more often the ping sounds. Numerous times when using tranq to scan location for animal(s), NOTHING shows despite ping being active.

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  • 4 weeks later...

And here I thought I was missing something:

- 50% not finding the scat to start

- animals not appearing after luring them in

- super hard to see footsteps that are often lost in rocky environment

All those really made me think I was too stupid to use my tools.

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