Saryn Nerf'd With Update 10.3, Was It Intentional?

[DragonDance]

     So on update 10.3, Saryn recieved a ninja nerf (a nerf that was not posted in the patch notes.)  It's kind of a small thing, but Saryn was my main warframe and unfortunetly my soul strategy with her relied on this one thing.  At first, I thought it was intententional, and sadly backed down to my second favorite frame, Excalibur, sad that of all the things that could and should be nerf'd... it was Saryn that DE picked.  However, after hearing some input from the design council, it seems that this may have been accidental.

 

     So, Saryns contagion ability, what does it do?  It causes your melee weapon to deal additional damage, at max rank with a max focus, this came out to aproc 127.5% bonus melee damage.  More then double.  The great thing about this was that it affected thrown melee weapons, IE the glaive and kestrel.  And when update 10 saw the release of the glaive mods, why, that made the glaive a fantastic icon, truely worthy of it's predeccesor in Dark Sector.  And I quickly went to work, collecting these mods together, and building my glaive, just to use it with Saryn. And it was a beautiful combo, it destroyed crowds of even level 200 mobs quickly.  Miasma to CC, throw my max bounce glaive into the ground to bounce back and forth with max puncture, as I spray with my firearms. Insane amounts of damage, all at once on the hapless crowd. 

 

     As of 10.3, this no longer works.  Contagion does not affect the galive, or the kestrel.  If tis was accidental, please DE, fix it as soon as you are able, this build was like, my baby, my niche.  I never saw anyone else using this in Warframe, and that made it all the funner for me.  If it was intentional, then why, why of all the things in Warframe that are actually complained about every day as being "overpowered" if all these things, why did you suddenly decide contagion was what needed nerfing?  It actually requires effort, timing and skill to set up and use properly.

 

 

[anonymous14z]

I felt very similar when they nerfed the "rage"  mod from giving energy on self damage, or the removal of the torrid's self damage (which destroys trinity's ability to nuke with rage, and link combo).

 

I cynically accept whatever DE does (even though I can formulate counterpoints based around "accountability") so yeah. But is likely that DE occasionally releases broken stuff (like the acrid, supra-synapse/electric shield, quick-thinking/rage, blessing spam, ETC) and decides to swing the nerf bat occasionally (which I really hate). I seppose that they are "fixing" the game. (again I like it kinda broken like it is now).

 

But to be on the topic, I'm biased towards yes. DE is out to nerf these fringe/relatively unknown overpowered things, and it seems what you have discovered, will be taken away, because of (fixes). Though I am ultimately uncertain.

Edited October 22, 2013 by anonymous14z

[Vardog]

Nerfing Saryn out of all frames....yeah....she's so overpowered. But seriously I think it was just a mistake, if anything Saryn needs a buff, not a nerf.

 

 

@anonymous

 

The difference between those broken things you mentioned and Contagion is that this skill isn't in any way overpowered, in fact it's not viable to use it on melee weapons because it doesn't provide any kind of protection/damage reduction while active so high level enemies eat you alive. Glaive/Kestrel made it possible to make some use of this otherwise useless skill. After the nerf this skill became just a waste of a Mod slot once again.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Vardog

[Yg-Dosst]

This is probably just a quick-fix to an issue that's burried deep in the game's mechanics.

 

Since there have been some changes with the way contagion works and how it is shown and represented...

Those changes could logically have caused issues with the throwing weapons since they disappear from your person.

 

They could have just removed Contagion's interaction with Throwing weapons to not have to deal with the bugs.

 

The Glaive - Saryn Combo is pretty strong. But unless it was something mechanical I doubt they would have removed it from BOTH throwing weapons as the Kestrel lacks the Glaive's fancy mods and doesn't synergize well with Contagion.

 

So Here's to hoping It was a hot-patch for a  bug, trying to get Contagion 1.1 out faster; and that it gets a proper fix soon.

[DragonDance]

This is probably just a quick-fix to an issue that's burried deep in the game's mechanics.

 

Since there have been some changes with the way contagion works and how it is shown and represented...

Those changes could logically have caused issues with the throwing weapons since they disappear from your person.

 

They could have just removed Contagion's interaction with Throwing weapons to not have to deal with the bugs.

 

The Glaive - Saryn Combo is pretty strong. But unless it was something mechanical I doubt they would have removed it from BOTH throwing weapons as the Kestrel lacks the Glaive's fancy mods and doesn't synergize well with Contagion.

 

So Here's to hoping It was a hot-patch for a  bug, trying to get Contagion 1.1 out faster; and that it gets a proper fix soon.

 

 

Yeah, I think it was you who actually got my hopes up that it was just a bug.  And I agree with everything you said except one thing, and I'm thinking this may not just be coincidence, but actually how the bug occured.  But on U10.3, DE allowed the glaive mods to be slotted in the kestrel.  So either A). DE noticed contagio naffected them and decided to nerf it since they were messing with those two weps anyway, or B). Somehow in allowing those mods to be added to kestrel, they broke contagion working on them.

Edited October 22, 2013 by DragonDance

[Yg-Dosst]

Yeah, I think it was you who actually got my hopes up that it was just a bug.  And I agree with everything you said except one thing, and I'm thinking this may not just be coincidence, but actually how the bug occured.  But on U10.3, DE allowed the glaive mods to be slotted in the kestrel.  So either A). DE noticed contagio naffected them and decided to nerf it since they were messing with those two weps anyway, or B). Somehow in allowing those mods to be added to kestrel, they broke contagion working on them.

 

Well unless I'm mistaken contagion is supposed to put an aura on your hands when you are using the melee weapon.

Because the Melee weapon's model literally disappears from your body, I'm assuming there's some kind of wonky runtime error that popped up because contagion could not detect a weapon and they didn't have time to fix it properly

 

You'd be amazed at what little things could crash a game. Especially one as complex as Warframe.

 

Just think. If DE had an Issue with a 127.5% damage buff on the Glaive...

Why does it still work on the Galatine?

Edited October 22, 2013 by Yg-Dosst

[DoomFruit]

I felt very similar when they nerfed the "rage"  mod from giving energy on self damage, or the removal of the torrid's self damage (which destroys trinity's ability to nuke with rage, and link combo).

Get an Ogris. I kill myself all the time with that... even when I think the enemies are far enough away. You're going to need Blessing as well, since a modded Ogris will smear you over the floor even with a 90% damage reduction.

[Llyssa]

Sounds like a bug.

[HackShield]

There you see only meele Kastrel and Glaive are projectiles after throw`n so its right they changed it

 

 

     So on update 10.3, Saryn recieved a ninja nerf (a nerf that was not posted in the patch notes.)  It's kind of a small thing, but Saryn was my main warframe and unfortunetly my soul strategy with her relied on this one thing.  At first, I thought it was intententional, and sadly backed down to my second favorite frame, Excalibur, sad that of all the things that could and should be nerf'd... it was Saryn that DE picked.  However, after hearing some input from the design council, it seems that this may have been accidental.

 

     So, Saryns contagion ability, what does it do?  It causes your melee weapon to deal additional damage, at max rank with a max focus, this came out to aproc 127.5% bonus melee damage.  More then double.  The great thing about this was that it affected thrown melee weapons, IE the glaive and kestrel.  And when update 10 saw the release of the glaive mods, why, that made the glaive a fantastic icon, truely worthy of it's predeccesor in Dark Sector.  And I quickly went to work, collecting these mods together, and building my glaive, just to use it with Saryn. And it was a beautiful combo, it destroyed crowds of even level 200 mobs quickly.  Miasma to CC, throw my max bounce glaive into the ground to bounce back and forth with max puncture, as I spray with my firearms. Insane amounts of damage, all at once on the hapless crowd. 

 

     As of 10.3, this no longer works.  Contagion does not affect the galive, or the kestrel.  If tis was accidental, please DE, fix it as soon as you are able, this build was like, my baby, my niche.  I never saw anyone else using this in Warframe, and that made it all the funner for me.  If it was intentional, then why, why of all the things in Warframe that are actually complained about every day as being "overpowered" if all these things, why did you suddenly decide contagion was what needed nerfing?  It actually requires effort, timing and skill to set up and use properly.

 

 

Edited October 22, 2013 by HackShield

[Vardog]

Contagion should work with any Damage type/Weapon in the first place...you know...to make the skill actually useful and not just a slot waste.

 

Though if the devs really want to stick to 'melee only' then they should also make it so Saryn has some kind of damage resistance while the skill is active, right now melee Saryn is a suicide build for higher levels ;p

 

There are only two scenarios where I see Contagion useful, either make it work with long range weapons as well as melee or give it a secondary effect like damage/poison reduction so Saryn can survive in melee.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Vardog

[HAYABU5A]

definately not right, after all glaive/kestrel are melee weapons regardless of how they are wielded 

[BattledOne]

And once again we have confirmation that changes don't go trough QTA. And if we're too vocal they'll remove damage numbers on thrown weapons so we don't know if it's working as it is "supposed to".

 

You heard it here first.

[zzang]

im happy to see that contagion have a use ..oh wait..

[rksk16it]

And once again we have confirmation that changes don't go trough QTA. And if we're too vocal they'll remove damage numbers on thrown weapons so we don't know if it's working as it is "supposed to".

 

You heard it here first.

 

This.

[Egg_Chen]

Contagion should work with any Damage type/Weapon in the first place...you know...to make the skill actually useful and not just a slot waste.

 

Oh god yes, sounds awesome.

 

With Damage 2.0 imagine if a few frames like Ember / Frost / Saryn had such abilities?

Ember with an Ice modded weapon, activate skill (say Overheat) and you have a temporary Blast type weapon.

Could add some tactics to mod choice and enemy engagement.

 

Another example, you have a basic crit build in use on the Soma, see a few heavies and activate Contagion, to do more damage to the armour.

It would need to be balanced, and sure 127.5% would have to be lowered for primary / secondary.

 

Currently Contagion gets no use on my Saryn, maybe if they change the thrown melee back I'll try the OP's method :)

[Khale_Kitha]

Just think. If DE had an Issue with a 127.5% damage buff on the Glaive...

Why does it still work on the Galatine?

 

Generally speaking melee damage buff abilities and mods don't work on charge attack.  Unless this is different for contagion, then there would be no reason to care about Galantine.

[notionphil]

nerf complex strategies to make average frames viable + let the uber tier frames press 3/4 to win = profit?

[lautalocos]

ehm, this is obviously a bug.

 

this should be on the bugs section

[rksk16it]

ehm, this is obviously a bug.

 

this should be on the bugs section

 

Nope, nothing is obvious given DE's history of "fixing" things. It was suspected that venom's __"performance fix"__ was a bug, which apparently, was fully intentional.

[DragonDance]

nerf complex strategies to make average frames viable + let the uber tier frames press 3/4 to win = profit?

This all the way. :/

[Zelieth]

Contagion is not broken. I just tested it with both Glaive and Kestrel. In all instances the Poison damage was calculated as expected. I will say that in my final test (Test #4 below) that the normal weapon damage was NOT displayed, and the enemy was killed instantly. Perhaps the lack of multiple damage popups is the bug and that is what is confusing people? The poison damage is being calculated, and is being shown.

 

Given the formula from the wiki of:

Total Additional Damage (%) = (1.Contagion % x 1.Focus % -1) x 100.

 

(Note: I do not have my Blind Rage mod maxed out yet, its only at 63%)

 

Test #1

Glaive/Kestrel: unmodded

Contagion: unmodded  - Poison Percent 75%

Damage dealt: 150

Poison Damage Expected: 113 (Rounded up from 112.5)

---

Poison Damage dealt: 113

 

Test #2

Glaive/Kestrel: unmodded

Contagion: 30% Strength (Focus) - Poison Percent 127.5%

Damage dealt: 150

Poison Damage Expected: 191 (Rounded down from 191.25)

---

Poison Damage dealt: 191

 

Test #3

Glaive/Kestrel: unmodded

Contagion: 93% Strength (Blind Rage/Focus) - Poison Percent 237.75%

Damage dealt: 150

Poison Damage Expected: 357 (Rounded up from 356.625)

---

Poison Damage dealt: 357

 

Test #4

Glaive/Kestrel: 250% Charge Damage (Killing Blow/Corrupt Charge)

Contagion: 93% Strength (Blind Rage) - Poison Percent 237.75%

Damage dealt: 525 (DID NOT DISPLAY, 525 EXPECTED)

Poison Damage Expected: 1248 (Rounded down from 1248.1875)

----

Poison Damage dealt: 1248

 

Please do some independent testing with this. I do not know why the raw Serrated Blade damage and Forcefield damage from Glaive and Kestrel (respectively) were not displaying correctly. Perhaps it was because the enemies were being over killed by the damage? However, the poison damage IS calculating correctly and it is being dealt.

[DragonDance]

I was told that contagion was broken for a time, but a hotfix on 10.3.4 fixed it again.  However, I did some testing as I noticed my damage with it is significantly lower then it used to be when using it with the glaive.

 

Tested on level 1 grineer in the very first terminus mission.  Max Contagion, max Focus, 127.5% bonus damage. This is what actually happened.

 

Glaive throw with no contagion:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=188422120

 

Glaive throw with contagion:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=188422048

 

It seems that my damage is getting lower, right?

 

Further testing on Phobos against level 40 grineer:

 

Glaive throw with no contagion:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=188424643

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=188424540

 

Glaive throw with contagion:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=188424490

 

Now with no damage mods on the glaive at all:

 

Glaive throw with no contagion:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=188426616

 

Glaive throw with contagion:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=188426394

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=188426384

 

So it's back to working the way it used to, with contagion applying a second "tick" of damage on contact, and only displaying that one tick if the tick is enough to kill, HOWEVER.  It seems like the damage has been severely nerf'd, as my poison is hitting only 593 damage, when it should be hitting closer to 1250, unless the poison damage stops at the mob's HP total, but I don't think level one grineer have 593 hp.  Has anyone else noticed lower damage from the contagion tick though?

Edited October 24, 2013 by DragonDance

[Raijinmeister]

Probably a bug.Your build dont seens op nor an abuse from some devious glitch.

I hope they quick fix this asap cus i do the same with my Sary,only without the power throw mod(not very fond in void farming,but i will call some friends to help with XD)

Edited November 10, 2013 by Raijinmeister