Seriously Now,what Is The Point Of Making Vitality,redirection And Siphon Mods?

[LtZefar]

Energy Siphon is not needed when you just have Flow maxed. I don't see why everyone think it's so awesome. It generate so little energy that it's not worth it. Maybe if all 4 are using it but even then it's not gonna do much with a maxed flow on.

 

As for health and shield. Well I've read about some combo mix up that makes you quite immortal.

[7grims]

Of all those mods u refer I only need redirection, I used to use vitality when I was still young in the game and didn't knew what to do.

As long as have I shields im up to take a beating and kill all I see, when the shields gonne, time to run, hide, making time for them to recharge a little.

And if ur loki, u have all the tool, to take some heat out of u, weather u get invisible or make decoy, its a good way to make sure ur not always being hit.

 

As far as playing High levels missions with new and weak frames, well you got to choose them properlly, not all underanking frames might make it, but with some class and good guns you can play as well as with an finnished frame.

[KIREEK]

I played with some friends and one of them did high level defense with less than 90 shields, we are talking some serious defense and he does indeed take damage.

Thing is, if you know the mods and if you open your mind you  can find interesting combinations that may replace redirection.

 

Blocking, trowing damage back to enemy, usage of abilities, quick thinking + rage,,......

 

You are young tenno, you still have alot to learn.

[TheHeraldXII]

Energy Siphon is not needed when you just have Flow maxed. I don't see why everyone think it's so awesome. It generate so little energy that it's not worth it. Maybe if all 4 are using it but even then it's not gonna do much with a maxed flow on.

 

As for health and shield. Well I've read about some combo mix up that makes you quite immortal.

Because Energy Siphon gives you energy that you otherwise wouldn't have, flow just lets you utilize more of it at once. IMO Flow is a completely useless mod because it only has any effect if your energy goes above your normal maximum, which means you aren't casting often enough to need more energy. Energy Siphon gives energy where none exists, increasing the amount you can spend, Flow just means... I dunno, you get to cast more skills in quick succession?

[Seanjuju]

Because Energy Siphon gives you energy that you otherwise wouldn't have, flow just lets you utilize more of it at once. IMO Flow is a completely useless mod because it only has any effect if your energy goes above your normal maximum, which means you aren't casting often enough to need more energy. Energy Siphon gives energy where none exists, increasing the amount you can spend, Flow just means... I dunno, you get to cast more skills in quick succession?

Completely useless isn't even close to a fair assessment. Flow means you don't have to look for more orbs whenever you use an ability.  

[Ned_Wiki]

It's suicide not to have them at any decent level.They defeat the whole purpose of MODIFICATIONS.Shields are your primary defense,with shields lower than 500 in lvl50+ you are useless.With no HP mod,as soon as your shield is down,you die instantly,especially with frames such as loki,who ironically rely on powers,hence they also need a load of mods for powers

Same with siphon.Everyone uses it.Everyone has to use it.Since if you don't,you have to run around collecting freaking BALLS,to use your spells.And without it,you more than often get in a "rush into enemy army to get energy and save yourself" ,or "lol got no energy i'm fked" situation because you casted your 4 once.

IMO the most logical option would be this

 

Frame = Loki (example)

Shield systems = Upgrade with credits,increase recharge and capacity

Health levels = Upgrade with credits,increase capacity,high levels give some regeneration

Energy levels = Upgrade with credits,increase energy max,higher levels give some regeneration

There we go,now i can actually tell someone new that this game offers customization without feeling ashamed.Make the last levels cost a million credits or so,and good to go

Just my 2 cents.I'm open to getting flamed np

But 99% of the time I don't use Shields or HP and I never die on any level of content.

[TheHeraldXII]

Completely useless isn't even close to a fair assessment. Flow means you don't have to look for more orbs whenever you use an ability.  

Except to get your energy above 150/225 in order for Flow to have any effect again. I guess "completely useless" might be overkill, but seeing as you can already doublecast your ultimates, and that Flow isn't giving you access to any more energy than you'd normally have it's gonna stay in the same pile as Steel Fibre for me.

Point is, it doesn't give you more energy. The energy you have available throughout the mission is dependent entirely on energy orbs and Energy Siphon. Saying Flow makes ES redundant is like saying that being given more bullets isn't necessary because I can carry a lot of ammo.

Edited October 23, 2013 by TheHeraldXII

[Shion963]

Drake Sword in/past Sen's Fortress.

 

They're useful up to a point, but after that you'd be better off finding alternatives.

[nekrojiji]

When you play with 3 others everytime ..... I play solo most of the time, and i like to know that my shields and hp cand take that split second where I was caught off guard. First play solo and than talk. How can you take cover when you are surrounded?! 

 

Did you at least do the math?!  you get ~147% more HP and shields so if your HP lasts 1 sec ...it will last 2.47. When you have others to pick you up it's not that much but what if you don't have that luxury?!

[VodkaGR]

News flash,we have people so pro that they can withstand lvl100 void or 30min defense ,just by blocking(lol,BLOCKING)or using their infinite energy skills.Also there is always cover,and they get hit by no strays.Wish i was that good

Pretty sure whoever says they can do that,or never die,are standing behind a full shield rhino and frost ,hoping to not draw fire,and either come last everywhere when enemies are dead,or fall down every minute and being a burden

Edited October 23, 2013 by VodkaGR

[Egg_Chen]

You don't need them all, very important with many builds but not essential.

My Vauban only uses Energy Syphon.

My Rhino does not use any.

Frost only uses shields.

I'm considering changing Frosts aura slot to match Energy Syphon, but do fine without it in T3 def.

Also, Rage!

My Trinity has only Vitality equipped out of the three you mention, along with Physique Aura.

I recently finished a Lephantis run taking 100% of the teams damage using that build.

[Vorigan]

News flash,we have people so pro that they can withstand lvl100 void or 30min defense ,just by blocking(lol,BLOCKING)or using their infinite energy skills.Also there is always cover,and they get hit by no strays.Wish i was that good Pretty sure whoever says they can do that,or never die,are standing behind a full shield rhino and frost ,hoping to not draw fire,and either come last everywhere when enemies are dead,or fall down every minute and being a burden

 

And yet again you are attacking your fellow Tenno by being sarcastic and implying we are lying. This is not the way to make a conversation.

Instead of thinking of ways to deny what we say, how about you actually read what everyone is suggesting and maybe start being better at the game.

It's not a shame to accept other people's opinions and try some different tactics every now and then.

Sitting with your god-like rhino and stomping all around is not helping you improve or enjoy the game.

[VodkaGR]

And yet again you are attacking your fellow Tenno by being sarcastic and implying we are lying. This is not the way to make a conversation.

Instead of thinking of ways to deny what we say, how about you actually read what everyone is suggesting and maybe start being better at the game.

It's not a shame to accept other people's opinions and try some different tactics every now and then.

Sitting with your god-like rhino and stomping all around is not helping you improve or enjoy the game.

I didn't attack anyone.Just saying that being behind everyone and never being in the actual battle invalidates your opinion.And that's the ONLY way you can survive a high level without redirection or vitality,unless you are permanently stealthed

 

[Vorigan]

I didn't attack anyone.Just saying that being behind everyone and never being in the actual battle invalidates your opinion.And that's the ONLY way you can survive a high level without redirection or vitality,unless you are permanently stealthed

 

 

No, no one of those who replied suggested to hide behind others or go completely stealth.

Go back and read their responses, unless you need me to do that for you.

[TheHeraldXII]

I didn't attack anyone.Just saying that being behind everyone and never being in the actual battle invalidates your opinion.And that's the ONLY way you can survive a high level without redirection or vitality,unless you are permanently stealthed

 

Well, there are a few ways, the Quick Thinking/Rage combo for one, playing a Trinity and being permanently invulnerable, being perma-cloaked as an Ash or Loki, just playing a Rhino in general, camping in a globe forever and a day as Frost, rushing through a level as Voltor alternating Chaos and Absorb as a Nyx. Hell you could just sneak through a level and not get shot. Or, and this is a crazy one, you could not play solo. I've played level 120 content without those mods (by accident, oh dear lord I would never choose that) and it's actually pretty easy if you have a team. You just let the guys with redirection take the unnerringly accurate bullets that can kill you in under a second.

I'm not saying that these are "pro strats" or anything, if anything these playstyles are more brainless that the standard run & gun but it's both possible and easy to not run defensive mods.

[Wiegraf]

Once you get around knowing the game well enough, the only two things to fear from high level content is numbers and your flanks. If you're well positionned and aware of your surroundings, you'll take less damage from cover and having your enemies unable to directly damage you.

 

As for Redirection, Vitality and Vigor, I used to rock both Redirection and Vitality, then only Redirection... then now I'm merely sticking to Vigor; it's one slot used, uses less CP than Redirection and Vitality together and gives me just enough of a buffer for damage. The only exception is with Frost and Rhino which have high shield capacity where I use Redirection alone. But really, when you reach a certain threshold, your health and shields account for nothing; it's kill or be killed at its barest of form of a trigger pull.

[Destro6677]

Because

a) The balance is skewed and we can all become tanks. Not fun, not cool, boring as hell.

b) Not everyone wants to tank up in any respect and would rather put mods into abilities.

c) You'll waste time, effort and credits that have been expended by most players who've decided to build up any of these mods.

 

 

You don't need to tank up on shields and/or health in order to play. Higher level missions may create the idea that they are a necessity but it's not the case - you can still help the team by other means. I mean, there are two mods you can take that lets you survive longer while downed and then do extra damage while downed. If that's not an incentive to attempt suicide to waste a squad of Grineer I'm not really sure what is.

[AhziDahaka]

I've always only used Redirection and Vitality either when I have nothing better to use (usually it's a defense polarity slot) or it's part of a particular strategy.  If anything I find that such mods often act as a crutch and encourage you to play more sloppily, eating up more hits, while running without them teaches you how to move and what to make a priority for killing and how to make the best of your abilities.  Why put your mod space into helping you survive hits when you can put it into helping you avoid getting hit to begin with?

[Skarmax]

how to kick a$$ without redirection and/or vitality: Rage+Quick Thinking

 

[Felix_G]

I only use Vitality on Rhino and Trinity, and Redirection mostly on Mag, volt, Rhino, and a couple other frames with high shield values. While I have all the current frames, I use Energy Siphon on less than half of them. I've found that most of the other aura mods are better for those frames' playstyles than Energy Siphon is.

 

The lack of loadout variety you perceive is due to your own lack of imagination, not the character build mechanics.

[Psroij]

Are people in this thread seriously using the Rage + Quick Thinking combo to attempt to argue against OP's about the necessity of Redirection and Vitality? Seriously? A rare combo that effectively makes a person immortal is not somehow a point in your favor. If anything, it reinforces OP's point.

 

"Ha! I don't have to worry about my shields getting melted in less than a second, they can't kill me anyways when I use this combo! You have no point OP!" As you give yourself the equivalent of a Vitality that increases your health to infinite levels.

 

Can none of you see how ridiculous that argument is? Utilizing Warframe's version of "Spectacularly Super Easy Casual Fun Time Mode!" is not a point against OP's argument, if anything, it bolsters OP's argument, since apparently some people have to use what would be considered an exploit if the developers were not clearly allowing it to exist, to get around the necessity for needing more shields and health so that they can actually play the run and gun style that the game emphasizes.

 

Further, anyone who comes in with a Rhino is just as bad. "I don't need Redirection! You're just an unimaginative n00b OP! Oops, let me recast Iron Skin." That's like Superman coming up to someone who was just shot and going, "Don't know why you are hurting, I get shot all the time and it never bothers me."

 

There are arguments that can be used against OP, but Quick Thinking + Rage, or Rhino, or Trinity, are not those arguments.

[gell]

Are people in this thread seriously using the Rage + Quick Thinking combo to attempt to argue against OP's about the necessity of Redirection and Vitality? Seriously? A rare combo that effectively makes a person immortal is not somehow a point in your favor. If anything, it reinforces OP's point.

 

"Ha! I don't have to worry about my shields getting melted in less than a second, they can't kill me anyways when I use this combo! You have no point OP!" As you give yourself the equivalent of a Vitality that increases your health to infinite levels.

 

Can none of you see how ridiculous that argument is? Utilizing Warframe's version of "Spectacularly Super Easy Casual Fun Time Mode!" is not a point against OP's argument, if anything, it bolsters OP's argument, since apparently some people have to use what would be considered an exploit if the developers were not clearly allowing it to exist, to get around the necessity for needing more shields and health so that they can actually play the run and gun style that the game emphasizes.

 

Further, anyone who comes in with a Rhino is just as bad. "I don't need Redirection! You're just an unimaginative n00b OP! Oops, let me recast Iron Skin." That's like Superman coming up to someone who was just shot and going, "Don't know why you are hurting, I get shot all the time and it never bothers me."

 

There are arguments that can be used against OP, but Quick Thinking + Rage, or Rhino, or Trinity, are not those arguments.

 

^ While I agree, the OP sort of went a little... insane. He can't understand how anyone could play without Redirection AND vitality AND Energy Siphon, and instead decided to become like a little kid going "lalalala" to anyone's post.

 

Btw, Vigor covers me most of the time, and if I'm at lvl 100+ or a frame that might be lacking in the shields area, I take a Redirection too. And no, I actually don't have Rage or Quick Thinking. True, some guys here are being dumb by saying they are "dodging" the enemy's hitscan (it's impossible, that's why it's hitscan), but you can take cover while playing, and killing only key targets can make a huge difference in a room with 20 enemies. I do love Energy Siphon, but it's not always necessary. In fact, I have a Frost Prime (he's got the Power aura slot), and my Frost was forma'd to have the utility aura slot, so I use Frost Prime for more damage, and Frost for a bit more defense. Neither of whom have Vitality on them.

 

So my point is that I don't agree with the OP that all these things need to be included without mods. I do think energy needs a rework, but I've been saying that since March.

Edited October 23, 2013 by gell

[Destro6677]

I just had to return here and add that when I play Rhino, I slap on Vitality and Steel fiber because that's how I play him.

 

Rhino becomes a giant, aggro-attracting bullet sponge whenever he uses Iron Skin. Without at least vitality and steel fiber, I can get destroyed in half a second when Iron Skin goes down.

[Campaigner]

I don't know if they're truly necessary. I managed to last in a grineer survival (Apollodorus) easily until the lv 70/80s started to push me and some pugs towards extraction. This was on a brand new Nova with zero mods BTW (for fun).

 

Guess the point is that Vitality/Redirection are good for newer players, but once you have decent weapons your shields and health don't really matter. Utility abilities are what define higher level play.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Campaigner

[Volume]

I am calling right now people who say they play lvl100 without redirection liars.Or they are somewhere in a corner while the 1000 shield rhino is destroying the map

Unless you are stealthed almost permanently,even a single enemy hitting you a couple of times will damage your health.

Also,enemy radar..lol.I am discussing at play in high levels,not apollodorus.If you say you have enemy radar in a t3 survival you will get kicked

Glass cannons tend to be better in this game. Defense is a waste of mod slots when you could have a pure damage build that clears multiple rooms just by pressing 4.

 

On top of that, armor tanking used to be viable, several patches ago, but it's not that good now, even with a max-rank Steel Fiber.

 

Combat tends to be fairly faceroll if you go easy mode (use Rhino)