The Community in Warframe is getting tired of the constant nerfs, and the grueling farming experiences.

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

I have been meeting thousands of people mostly veterans as i play this game and as i talk with them i hear them complaining about the same stuff and i agree.

DE is slowly but surely killing their game.

Kuva farming is the most grueling experience yet so important if you want to work with riven but honestly if they're just going to Nerf the dispositions then why bother. i used to farm Kuva when i thought i could keep what i have at least. but with their disponerfs i decided why farm something that i would rather be dead than do if the rewards from it just get ruined.

they insist on making things so overly complicated that it's stressful rather than fun. there's dozens more examples I could add but i don't wan't to spend 30 minutes typing.

if anyone else has any thing to add please do.

I love this game and i don't want to see it die i want it to thrive and get better.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

The community? I didn't get an invitation for that meeting! I am summoning all 50+ million tenno for next friday. 

2pm ET sharp, fellow Tenno! At Clem's Fort in the Iron Wake.

In all seriousness, it can be tiring sometimes. Still it's mostly up to us to manage our expectations, despite DE crossing the line sometimes.

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

All right then, no clue how you'll pull that off but if you manage to, then let's hear what they think then.

 

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

The community? I didn't get an invitation for that meeting! I am summoning all 50+ million tenno for next friday. 

2pm ET sharp, fellow Tenno! At Clem's Fort in the Iron Wake.

In all seriousness, it can be tiring sometimes. Still it's mostly up to us to manage our expectations, despite DE crossing the line sometimes.

I feel like it's a reasonable expectation to load back into the game and not find that my best weapons are useless against level 200 enemies.

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Harbinger XK5 said:

I feel like it's a reasonable expectation to load back into the game and not find that my best weapons are useless against level 200 enemies.

especially after i a put an umbra forma on them

[killerKronos23]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)Harbinger XK5 said:

DE is slowly but surely killing their game.

tisk i said this months ago and got blasted

9 minutes ago, (XB1)Harbinger XK5 said:

they insist on making things so overly complicated that it's stressful rather than fun. there's dozens more examples

how about

the 20 grandmother tokens for 1 seriglass shard

xaku needs 5 gryomag systems which comes from profit taker that is low drop rate and is locked behind having max rep with fortuna

getting common prime parts from a radient relic

like you said theres more but i too dont want to be typing for 30+ mins

[Tesseract7777]

Even if I agreed with you entirely I would be annoyed at you speaking for me. 

Please don't do that. Please don't assume to speak for others. 

Make your points on their own merit instead of including faceless people you haven't surveyed as part of your "side". 

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

another example would be the luck ratio of trying to get a good roll on a riven mod

 

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

Another thing i found in a separate post this should give some perspective as to how abysmal this crap is.

 

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

12 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Even if I agreed with you entirely I would be annoyed at you speaking for me. 

Please don't do that. Please don't assume to speak for others. 

Make your points on their own merit instead of including faceless people you haven't surveyed as part of your "side". 

i'm not speaking for you i don't mean ever single person in the community i suppose i may have worded it poorly

and they're just people who are fed up with the same crap i have to deal with constantly.

[Tyreaus]

Okay, so...what would you prefer? Do you want them to get rid of Rivens? Turn on stat-locking for Rivens? Should they buff everything (including enemies, which certainly won't end up equating to a nerf /s )? Should they make the gameplay more engaging so that the grind isn't felt as much? You outline this (apparently) universal grind problem - with "content drought" looming on its flip-side, mind - but...then what? What's your fix?

[Loza03]

The problems with buffs and nerfs, and even the farming experience is far more complex than much of this board wants to believe. People want to believe it's as simple as not nerfing anymore, as simple as just buffing.

The problem is that it isn't.

The situation we are in is that there's no opportunity cost for anything that we do whilst on a mission. There's some - a good argument could be made for a great deal - in the arsenal sure, but it's meaningless if that doesn't translate to in-mission gameplay. We're given consistency of output for free, and so power becomes the only metric worth measuring a weapon or ability by, and so there's no reason to not use the strongest. There is no way to buff Decoy to a point where it's viable without simply making it another AoE freeze ability - at which point, it isn't a decoy any more.

I'm not saying revert it all back to update 13 mechanics, or beta mechanics, or Stamina or whatever, because the game has definitely evolved for the better in plenty of ways. But core aspects of the gameplay have not evolved with it.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

The Helminth system did set a new low for DE and nerfs. That’s about it.

[Cegrin]

So this is about Rivens again?  I'm just going to go ahead and repeat what I said last time: Anyone who gets upset about Riven disposition changes has severely misunderstood the purpose of Rivens.  They are not meant to be kingmakers that crystallize the best meta options.  They're meant to be quick and dirty handicaps to give underperforming weapons a leg up and diversify the meta.  This means that very popular weapons will have inferior rivens and unpopular weapons will have superior ones, and that those judgements are periodically reevaluated as popularity fluctuates. 

[(PSN)KBDUltimateNin]

2 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Even if I agreed with you entirely I would be annoyed at you speaking for me. 

Please don't do that. Please don't assume to speak for others. 

Make your points on their own merit instead of including faceless people you haven't surveyed as part of your "side". 

That’s weird. If he has spoken to others he can speak to their concerns. You disliking it is pretty irrelevant to the point he was making; which is that his experience has led him to a general consensus. You can say you disagree, but to lecture him is an illogical approach. 

Since I am on the topic, I agree. I have my favorite weapons. 2/3 have received nerfs, one is unusable and I anticipate one for my favorite frame. At which point I’ll have to decide if it’s still worth the continued investments. The set up I ran used 38 formas all and all. So much time and effort went into perfecting it. I’m generally a fan of bringing things up to par than taking things away from players who were already given something. There are several abilities and weapons that are lackluster a sweep of sorts that brought them into competitive positions would be my preferred remedy

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Ok...well the community also doesn't want people with OP weapons clearing the map and taking everyone's kills, either. You can already make a weapon completely OP by using 4 to 6 forma. A riven is just a bonus. "Nerf" is just a buzzword, and warframes grind isn't even close to as bad as games with real, actual grinds. 

 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

2 hours ago, (XB1)Harbinger XK5 said:

another example would be the luck ratio of trying to get a good roll on a riven mod

 

You can get good rolls on rivens, you just want a perfect roll. Every riven I use got a great roll between 1 and 20ish.

[Hobie-wan]

The game does and always has stated that things can change. People complain when things change because it "ruined their stuff". People complain when things don't change because they say "I'm bored with all this stuff I've had for a long time". If they add new stuff, there has to be a reason to use it. Unfortunately this often leads to power creep. You can't have things change and not change at the same time.

If you want a game that never changes and doesn't suddenly make the stuff you used yesterday different because of additions or attempts at balance, then play a game that is static and no longer being updated. You probably will be done with it and move to a new game with far less playtime than you have in Warframe unless it has some sort of score or other metric to shoot for.

There are 2 ways to power up your items. Barring balance tweaks to base stats, leveling/mods/forma is the way that you always know what you're going to get. Rivens are variable. If you don't want variables, then don't use rivens. Simple as that. Instead of pinning my hopes and dreams on rivens, I play what I crack myself and if I get one that's +120% crit chance with other bonuses, then hey, it's better than a plain +100% crit chance mod. If you look at it as "If I can't bet this riven to +200% crit chance in a reasonable number of rolls it's garbage", then your expectations are wrong and you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

[(PSN)thegarada]

Ah so this is a riven thread. Not that I do not agree, but I am not super attached to any riven or any weapon. I also do not think it is a good idea to spend 150-200k kuva on a riven, unless you want to sell it. I can get something good without 20-30 rolls usually. If it gives me 3 beneficial stats, I will just move on. The extra rolling would not even result in more than 2-3% more damage. And we are already way over clocked on the damage side. It is not worth it, and is frustrating when the disposition gets nerfed. 

[xombob89]

In my opinion most nerfs DE has made were necessary and justified, but I do understand it can be frustrating to some players in certain cases. Only nerf/change that really annoyed me was itzal blink because I had JUST spent a lot of time getting the right mods to maximize it dispite hating archwing missions, then they changed it and all my efforts went down the drain. Still, I do understand WHY they made the change, I just hope they didnt add a cooldown to it. 

What comes to tedious/ridiculous farming, I think kuva and rivens is a bad example because rivens are a very powerful thing that shouldn't be an easy thing to get in large quantities unless they actually add an endgame where they are really needed. Personally Ive only rolled and maxed 2 or 3 rivens and been sitting on a pile of 100k kuva for ages. I do wish theyd remove the increasing reroll cost though. 

 

Edit: and like someone said above, I also reroll only 10-20 times at max then leave it if I dont get better stats to avoid wasting too much

[master_of_destiny]

So, let's skip out on the rivens.  The reason I want to do so is that they're RNG on stats, RNG on the stat values, and realistically have failed at their stated goal of making every weapon viable in high level play.  Not endgame...but high level play.

 

Let's talk about a fun grind, kuva weapons.  

First, you decide to grind either the kuva siphons, or to start a Lich and hope for good drops from the thralls.  I'll start from the siphons for this example.

Next, you grind the siphons.  They're timed, only one is a guaranteed drop, and there's 4 different relics that need cracking.

Now that you've got the relics, decide whether to run them regular or to enrich them with void traces.  The former is faster with worse chances at uncommon drops, while the later increases the drop chance for uncommon items but adds additional grinding.

Now that you've decided, run the relics on the new requiem tier.  You'll need at least 1 of each of these items for your parazon, so get ready if RNG is not in your favor.

Now that you've got the parazon mods, it's time to get a Lich.  Run Grineer missions using a frame which provides the element you want, and grind until a larvling spawns.  Once the larvling is killed check to see if it has the desired weapon.  If not repeat until you get the one you want.

Now that you've killed the larvling you have a Lich.  It's an RNG planet, and it's time to grind through missions to kill a number of thralls that is capped.  There's no running a survival for 40 minutes so all of the thralls can be killed in one setting, they simply stop spawning if you exceed their arbitrary counter.

If you're lucky the thralls will be killed fast enough that you'll know a correct parazon mod before the Lich respawns.  If not, you have a 1 in 336 chance of guessing.  Let's suggest that you get it wrong, and your attempt to kill the Lich goes wrong.  The Lich levels up, gets a new planet, and gives you the progression of a bunch of thralls.  If you didn't know at least one of the parazon mods, you do now.  It of course is in an unknown order, so if it wasn't the first mod during that attempted Lich kill it can either be the second or third.  Time to grind more thralls, until you learn the second one.  Still no order, so when that Lich spawns a second time you plug the second mod into the first slot and hope it's right....and the first mod is in the second position.  If not you've now got to grind more.

Assuming that the uncovered two parazon mods are both found not to be the first one it's now a 50% chance to get the order right after you grind the thralls.  If you found the correct first one, and the second was incorrect or correct, you know know the order.  This is a minimum of Lich level 3, but likely 4 or 5 given the thrall grind.

You've finally got the third parazon mod.  Slot things in correctly, and kill your Lich.  RNG as to whether they have an ephemera, and RNG to the elemental value of their weapon.  Oh goody.

Now level up the weapon and apply 5 forma to get it to maximum rank.

At this point if you don't like the element repeat all previous steps with the larvling hunt utilizing a different frame.  If you like the element repeat all of the grind save formas multiple times to procure multiple copies of the weapon and valence transfer them to the original to max out the elemental value.

 

Repeat all of the above for each different kuva weapon...  Alternatively, level them up for mastery rank then sell them.  They're not insanely better than any other content, and the associated grind is miserable.  If you do like any of them keep them, because they're likely to be solid with pretty much any choice.

 

 

 

All of the above is the Kuva weapon system.  The grind is insane, and the weapons aren't game changers.  It's this kind of layered grind that is frustrating, if I'm reading the OP's point.  If not, please correct.

 

I would also classify arcanes, certain mods dropping from rare enemies, and rare rewards in things like ESO (2% for Braton Vandal parts) similarly.  Hopefully this helps as an outline....though with a mile of text it's unlikely to be anything so much as TL;DR.

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

18 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

Okay, so...what would you prefer? Do you want them to get rid of Rivens? Turn on stat-locking for Rivens? Should they buff everything (including enemies, which certainly won't end up equating to a nerf /s )? Should they make the gameplay more engaging so that the grind isn't felt as much? You outline this (apparently) universal grind problem - with "content drought" looming on its flip-side, mind - but...then what? What's your fix?

 

16 hours ago, Hobie-wan said:

The game does and always has stated that things can change. People complain when things change because it "ruined their stuff". People complain when things don't change because they say "I'm bored with all this stuff I've had for a long time". If they add new stuff, there has to be a reason to use it. Unfortunately this often leads to power creep. You can't have things change and not change at the same time.

If you want a game that never changes and doesn't suddenly make the stuff you used yesterday different because of additions or attempts at balance, then play a game that is static and no longer being updated. You probably will be done with it and move to a new game with far less playtime than you have in Warframe unless it has some sort of score or other metric to shoot for.

There are 2 ways to power up your rivens. Barring balance tweaks to base stats, leveling/mods/forma is the way that you always know what you're going to get. Rivens are variable. If you don't want variables, then don't use rivens. Simple as that. Instead of pinning my hopes and dreams on rivens, I play what I crack myself and if I get one that's +120% crit chance with other bonuses, then hey, it's better than a plain +100% crit chance mod. If you look at it as "If I can't bet this riven to +200% crit chance in a reasonable number of rolls it's garbage", then your expectations are wrong and you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

ceasing the nerfs and not have 0.02% drop chances, they do this and i wouldn't be complaining

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

16 hours ago, Cegrin said:

So this is about Rivens again?  I'm just going to go ahead and repeat what I said last time: Anyone who gets upset about Riven disposition changes has severely misunderstood the purpose of Rivens.  They are not meant to be kingmakers that crystallize the best meta options.  They're meant to be quick and dirty handicaps to give underperforming weapons a leg up and diversify the meta.  This means that very popular weapons will have inferior rivens and unpopular weapons will have superior ones, and that those judgements are periodically reevaluated as popularity fluctuates. 

this is about more than just rivens, rivens are merely the best example of making time spent wasted.

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

16 hours ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Ok...well the community also doesn't want people with OP weapons clearing the map and taking everyone's kills, either. You can already make a weapon completely OP by using 4 to 6 forma. A riven is just a bonus. "Nerf" is just a buzzword, and warframes grind isn't even close to as bad as games with real, actual grinds. 

 

i'm usually a solo player, i can't take people's kills when i play alone. but lately i have had to rely on others which bothers me a lot.

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)Harbinger XK5 said:

 

ceasing the nerfs and not have 0.02% drop chances, they do this and i wouldn't be complaining. and i have the same problem involving riven-less 6 forma builds.