In-Depth look at Deimos Jugulus

[Flying_Scorpion]

These enemies are really cool. I'm glad DE didn't spoil information on them and let us discover and experience them first hand with the release of The Heart of Deimos.

Unfortunately, I (and I'm sure many others) couldn't see the interesting and awesome details surrounding these enemies due to the sheer information overload, FPS drop, and bodyparts clipping through the screen.

After spawning these enemies in the captura editor and looking more closely at them, I can say that DE is raising the bar on their enemy designs. I don't fully agree with making these enemies immune to viral, but that's a debate worthy of it's own thread.

In the mean time, I made a video that goes into depth on how these enemies work, and I spend the bulk of the video demonstrating increasingly effective ways to kill these enemies.

Feel free to check it out and share your own thoughts on these guys.

PS. If anyone from DE is reading or watches this, I'd like to say that I appreciate having super tanky enemies in the game, especially like the Deimos Genetrix. It's not often there's an enemy tanky enough to survive for more than 3 seconds against 4 arch-guns combined, but when it happens...it's pretty cool!
 

 

[Rhyandra]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb Flying_Scorpion:

especially like the Deimos Genetrix

Those aren't just "tanky". They're damn near invincible. Have you ever tried killing one in a steel path bounty? 

[Flying_Scorpion]

2 minutes ago, Rhyandra said:

Those aren't just "tanky". They're damn near invincible. Have you ever tried killing one in a steel path bounty? 

Yes I have. And one of my favorite memories is when I heard the sound of someone shooting their arch gun at that thing, and I decided to join in. The two of us unloading on it, and then someone activated a damage buffing ability for the team, and eventually after all 4 of us combined our firepower, it went down in a glorious explosion - after I unloaded 2 full clips of arch gun ammunition on it. That, my friend, was a fun and memorable experience for me.

But I'm sure there are others who still have frustration because they are practically invulnerable in some situations. I think it's fair though, because they don't really pose much of a threat aside from spawning in more enemies but then again...who doesn't like it when more enemies spawn in? I think these are well designed enemies :)

[--F--NerevarCM]

5 minutes ago, Rhyandra said:

Those aren't just "tanky". They're damn near invincible. Have you ever tried killing one in a steel path bounty? 

Shoot the "eye", they take 4x damage here. Its their "head"

[Rhyandra]

Gerade eben schrieb Flying_Scorpion:

I think it's fair though, because they don't really pose much of a threat aside from spawning in more enemies

They occasionally shoot and almost one-shot you.

Not to forget they're immune to targetting abilties.

[Flying_Scorpion]

Just now, --F--NerevarCM said:

Shoot the "eye", they take 4x damage here. Its their "head"

This is a good point, A little skill and knowledge can go a long way and it's great that DE bakes in rewards for people who exercise their skill and game knowledge.

[--F--NerevarCM]

1 minute ago, Rhyandra said:

They occasionally shoot and almost one-shot you.

Not to forget they're immune to targetting abilties.

Genetrix doesn't shoot, Probably it was a drone. The tentacle one

[Flying_Scorpion]

Just now, Rhyandra said:

They occasionally shoot and almost one-shot you.

They do? I didn't notice that. I haven't looked particularly closely at these enemies but it also seems like they have a spotlight coming out of their eye. Maybe they can only see what's in the spotlight? I don't know.

[Rhyandra]

Gerade eben schrieb --F--NerevarCM:

Genetrix doesn't shoot, Probably it was a drone. The tentacle one

They do, it looks like a yellow orb. It's very inconsistent though. And the head multiplier doesn't matter a lot in the end when it has so much armor. I'm fine with the Jugulus (except for it's badly designed one-shot coming from the ground that has zero counterplay).

[Talinthis]

ahh infested sinew. nothing in the game had that other than hemocyte

[(PSN)robotwars7]

6 minutes ago, Rhyandra said:

Those aren't just "tanky". They're damn near invincible. Have you ever tried killing one in a steel path bounty? 

heat works well against them, heat modded arquebex takes them down quickly.

I do love the new enemies, I have wanted newer, more grotesque infetsed forms, as well as Juggernauts and Thrashers to become regulars, and Deimos doesn't disappoint! (unless you get bugged spawns that is..). the Carnis Rex is my favourite, centipedes and Earwigs are underrated as "horror" creatures IMO, everyone is afraid of spiders, but you could do CRAZY stuff with Earwigs, Caterpillars and the like (have you seen spiked caterpillars? they're metal AF, tell me a huge man-eating one wouldn't be utterly terrifying!)

[Flying_Scorpion]

1 minute ago, Rhyandra said:

(except for it's badly designed one-shot coming from the ground that has zero counterplay).

I don't mean to be rude but you should watch the video. The Jugulus telegraphs this attack through A) Animation B) Earthquake sounds, and C) Visual effects under your feet.

There's time to move out of the way and there are methods to deal with the stagger stunlock. 

[Flying_Scorpion]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

Carnis Rex is my favourite, centipedes and Earwigs are underrated as "horror" creatures

TOTALLY agree with you! These are some really cool enemies, and if you look closely, you'll see that these various Deimos enemies have different ranges and special AI tactics where some will get in close and attack (like the armored Carnis Rex) and others will hide behind rocks and obstacles while launching projectiles from cover (regular Carnis), then you have the very far ranging, immobile Jugulus, launching devastating damage over time effects and stagger-locking you from afar. Super cool designs.

[Rhyandra]

Gerade eben schrieb Flying_Scorpion:

I don't mean to be rude but you should watch the video. The Jugulus telegraphs this attack through A) Animation B) Earthquake sounds, and C) Visual effects under your feet.

There's time to move out of the way and there are methods to deal with the stagger stunlock. 

Yeah, because nothing but the Jugulus exist, right? Nothing else in the game causes sounds or visual effects. And it'`s almost like the Jugulus sits in the backrow of everything. And I've never seen visual effects happening when I got one-shot. Mostly even the tentacles appeared and only damaged me slightly. And don't even defend the stagger stunlock, that's just.. sad.

[Flying_Scorpion]

1 minute ago, Rhyandra said:

And it'`s almost like the Jugulus sits in the backrow of everything. And I've never seen visual effects happening when I got one-shot. Mostly even the tentacles appeared and only damaged me slightly. And don't even defend the stagger stunlock, that's just.. sad.

Are you playing on Steel Path?

[EmberStar]

21 minutes ago, Rhyandra said:

Those aren't just "tanky". They're damn near invincible. Have you ever tried killing one in a steel path bounty? 

And their hitboxes are huge, bizarre, and seem to persist for quite a while after they die.  Trying to melee one usually results in getting randomly flung fifty feet straight up when I clip some part of the hitbox.  They also have that ground spike attack that they can use from huge range and event without line of sight, which sometimes seems to randomly crit or something and can apparently even one-shot my Inaros through a thousand points of armor, fully charged Adaptation and Scarab Swarm.  So that's fun.

*Edit* Sorry, I thought we were still talking about the Jugulus.

[Rhyandra]

Gerade eben schrieb Flying_Scorpion:

Are you playing on Steel Path?

What else? Anything below level 100 isn't a real threat.

[Vahenir]

The design of these things is pretty nice. However their ranged attacks /really/ need to have some kind of better telegraph. At steel path they will one shot frames by having the initial impact break your shield and then the hp immediately goes poof when the gas proc ticks. This is while their ranged attacks are also silent and near invisible against the background. The sound etc isn't really relevant as they usually spawn very far away. It isn't the spikes that will kill you either, its the discs.

[EmberStar]

Just now, Vahenir said:

The design of these things is pretty nice. However their ranged attacks /really/ need to have some kind of better telegraph. At steel path they will one shot frames by having the initial impact break your shield and then the hp immediately goes poof when the gas proc ticks. This is while their ranged attacks are also silent and near invisible against the background. The sound etc isn't really relevant as they usually spawn very far away. It isn't the spikes that will kill you either, its the discs.

I'm not entirely sure which of the jugulus attacks does it.  I just know that sometimes my Inaros Prime will just instantly die and go flying into low orbit when they're around.  With zero chance to dodge, avoid, or even know for certain which of their attacks did it.  Which is just what I expect when fighting a faction that's previously been defined by being the Melee Only faction.  :(

[Rhyandra]

Gerade eben schrieb Flying_Scorpion:

Then why are you complaining about something that can threaten you? The threat of the tentacle attack can be completely avoided by further developing your own skill, knowledge, and awareness in the game. As you play and pay attention, you will learn to notice the sound of the rumbling earthquake and spot the moving earth where the tentacles will spawn. This is on you, not on bad enemy design. 

And this is why Warframe is such in a bad state. Because of people like you. It's baffling how humans defend lazy game design.

[EmberStar]

2 minutes ago, Flying_Scorpion said:

Then why are you complaining about something that can threaten you? The threat of the tentacle attack can be completely avoided by further developing your own skill, knowledge, and awareness in the game. As you play and pay attention, you will learn to notice the sound of the rumbling earthquake and spot the moving earth where the tentacles will spawn. This is on you, not on bad enemy design. 

What audio and FX settings are you using that you can hear *anything* in the middle of a Deimos fight, or spot the very slightly moving pile of dirt through *all* the other FX and Infested (alive and dead) flying around during every single outdoor fight?  I'm curious.

[Traumtulpe]

You failed to mention a couple important things. First of all, they aren't just durable, they actually cheat. What I mean by this, is that the damage per second you can do to them (before armor) is capped.

The exact calculation is not clear to me, but it is easily noticeable when using a sniper rifle - you get a multiplier to your damage for consecutive hits, except it doesn't increase your damage at all against a Jugulus.

Secondly, they have a special damage reduction against bleeds (or damage over time in general). While you can apply bleeds to them, they are essentially worthless.

Thirdly, you can still oneshot them easily. You are merely limited in your choice of tools. Pictures to illustrate my points:

Vectis Prime with Riven and Bane of Infested:

It's bleed against a Jugulus, using Ash (for his passive). Completely worthless:

Redeemer Prime with one mod missing (removed the Riven) killing a fresh level 130 Jugulus in one hit:

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

37 minutes ago, Rhyandra said:

Those aren't just "tanky". They're damn near invincible. Have you ever tried killing one in a steel path bounty? 

Just bring a melee weapon with a bleed build and they melt in seconds. Even in Steel Path.

I find the Deimos Saxum to be more difficult to kill than the Jugulus. You have to shoot their shoulders off first before you can take them down.

[TARINunit9]

43 minutes ago, Flying_Scorpion said:

These enemies are really cool.

I disagree

For one thing they look like giant pen15s, with teeth instead of a urethra. In isolation that would actually be cool, but combined with everything else it feels like DE is mocking me

They're designed like they come from a Devil May Cry game. That's not a metaphor, their attacks would fit PERFECTLY in a Devil May Cry game. The problem is, Warframe is not Devil May Cry. Skill-based enemies that might be balanced at one level of play just do horrid levels of damage at higher levels, which causes their combined Gas/Slash procs to do obscene and unfair amounts of damage. And Devil May Cry enemies weren't designed to have endless hordes of up to three dozen enemies that can each attack as often as they want to

You simply can't focus on the Jugulus's skill-based attacks in Warframe, not when there's Venin Mutalists swarming the objective and giant Centipedes trying to spam their cheap semi-homing projectiles. So you WILL get hit. You will get hit a LOT, you will get staggered by their tentacles, you will get hit by gas procs that proceed to do about SIX HUNDRED DAMAGE (that's Eidolon levels of player damage, what the hell DE?)

I would love to kill the Jugulus with Red Queen or Rebellion. I don't have very much fun trying to blast their bell-ends off with my Athodai while I'm constantly getting knocked over by Runners and Ancient Disruptors

And as @Traumtulpepoints out, they aren't actually all that tanky either. You unload on them with a high rate-of-fire weapon or with some melee, they melt pretty quickly. So even your main piece of praise for them doesn't exist

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

Watched through the whole video and no mention of their DPS dependent DR. Disappointing.
Tanky enemies are fine, but not when its hidden from the player. If I'm fighting demolisher-level tankieness enemies (because that's what Jugulus, Therids, and Thrashers are, Infested demolishers without the nullifying pulse) make it obvious. Put a marker or something on them