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18 hours ago, Celimbor said:

Well, thanks for nothing, I guess. I hope this isn't the last redesign of Xaku because holy hell this is bad.

This note made me laugh and was totally redundant, if you actually check what enemies have either cloned flesh or fossilized. Then you'd notice that neither Eidolons nor Amalgams use these types health classes. I'm really wondering why they even mentioned it, they could've just said bosses. Anyways I don't see why "certain bosses" should retain these resistances, removing that 50% resistance makes almost no difference.

Void damage's issue is armour and its terrible status effect.

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20 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Here is how we are changing Xaku’s Passive: 

  • Including AOE damage reduction as part of Xaku’s Passive. 
    • How it will work: AOE damage will simply take a 25% damage reduction (75% while The Vast Untime is active).
    • Currently, Xaku’s Passive reduces incoming weapon damage. Which includes projectile, hitscan, and melee attacks, but does not include any protection from enemy AOE damage. For example, if an enemy shot a rocket at Xaku, the projectile itself would have a 25% chance to pass through them and deal no damage (75% with The Vast Untime), but the explosion following would have the full effect. With this change, Xaku’s Passive grants them 25% damage reduction on the following AOE explosion from that rocket. That’s increased to 75% when Xaku is running around bare bones!

This isn't going to impact how incredibly squishy this frame is...

  • You could have released this frame with an Aura Forma built in
  • You could also have added 2 more passives (making one of them an effect similar to Quick Thinking) to help alleviate the squishiness.

Right now, it appears that Xaku is intended to be this squishy on purpose.

You folks have given, yet another, CC frame glass cannon defense specs...Even the glass cannon frames have more defense than Xaku does.

What, exactly, do ya'll have against CC frames?

Right now, this frame is so wonky that players couldn't find room to fit an augment in the builds even if you introduced one. 

 

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20 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

It is important to note that Eidolons, Amalgams, and certain bosses will still maintain this resistance.

As it stands right now Xata’s Whisper bonus Void damage has no effect on Void weak enemies because they have a “resistance against their weakness”.

Either the % has to be bigger to make it more appealing than a nerfed Roar ( 26% vs 30%) or give the actual Void benefits to it.

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Chance not to take damage is not the same as damage reduction. Xaku is squishy as a stress ball, harder to squeeze than certain other balls, but still easily squeezed when the person is strong enough.

The drain and duration situation for his 4th ability was just redundant, and not the main problem of his energy drain. It is the actual energy cost of his abilities, with the NEED of both range and duration for them. His stats and how they work don't leave any room for "more of this, less of that." Which is a result of certain base stats being too low.

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Still you failed to make xaku viable in any mission he needs 2 abilities completely removed anything with void damage does absolutely nothing without sacrificing everything for a specific build its just an absolute failure of a community designed frame you guys selected 

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19 minutes ago, (NSW)Siaw said:

As it stands right now Xata’s Whisper bonus Void damage has no effect on Void weak enemies because they have a “resistance against their weakness”.

Either the % has to be bigger to make it more appealing than a nerfed Roar ( 26% vs 30%) or give the actual Void benefits to it.

It is thematically quite strange. And I definitely agree with that point about Roar. Right now Xata's Whisper can be seen as detrimental for how it reduces the Status bias of other damage types while not increasing damage by a substantial amount and not offering a good damage type. Replacing Xata's Whisper with Roar would both increase the damage provided and not mess with status bias. In fact Roar would strengthen DoTs even further because it's calculated as a faction bonus.

That said, I think I would replace Xaku's 1 with Pillage if anything. It would reduce enemies' effective health while providing Xaku a massive amount of overshields to compliment their passive and 2 making shields easier to maintain.

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57 minutes ago, Abysspurnyan said:

This note made me laugh and was totally redundant, if you actually check what enemies have either cloned flesh or fossilized. Then you'd notice that neither Eidolons nor Amalgams use these types health classes. I'm really wondering why they even mentioned it, they could've just said bosses. Anyways I don't see why "certain bosses" should retain these resistances, removing that 50% resistance makes almost no difference.

Void damage's issue is armour and its terrible status effect.

Because people would actually like to use Xaku outside of fighting Sentients. 

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25 minutes ago, Gailus said:

It is thematically quite strange. And I definitely agree with that point about Roar. Right now Xata's Whisper can be seen as detrimental for how it reduces the Status bias of other damage types while not increasing damage by a substantial amount and not offering a good damage type. Replacing Xata's Whisper with Roar would both increase the damage provided and not mess with status bias. In fact Roar would strengthen DoTs even further because it's calculated as a faction bonus.

That said, I think I would replace Xaku's 1 with Pillage if anything. It would reduce enemies' effective health while providing Xaku a massive amount of overshields to compliment their passive and 2 making shields easier to maintain.

It doesn't. The extra damage is added as an extra damage instance, using the weapon's status chance as reference for status chance. It is closer to Saryn's toxic lash than the usual elemental buffs.

"Xata's Whisper VoidTearIcon b Void damage is based on a percentage of the total weapon damage.

 

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21 hours ago, D1videdByZer0 said:

I do wonder if void damage can be improved even further by giving it a certain proc.

 

Void damage is a very special damage type. Giving it a special effect could increase the utility of Operators as well... idk maybe it can work like slag damage in Borderlands 2. So every stack of void proc would increase damage taken by all other sources by 10% or something (and the status effect lingers for quite a while).

Void damage already has a proc... It pulls in projectiles towards the target procced with Void...

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Just now, HolySeraphin said:

It doesn't. The extra damage is added as an extra damage instance, using the weapon's status chance as reference for status chance. It is closer to Saryn's toxic lash than the usual elemental buffs.

 

Oh dang. I completely missed that part of the ability. Thanks for pointing that out. This actually does change my view of the ability by quite a bit, even though not enough for me to not consider Roar inherently better in every way.

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21 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

A couple of posts, notably those written by people with verified 6 Forma installations, have realized just how powerful Gaze can be in certain mission types. So we are leaving Gaze untouched for now so we can continue to evaluate it within the realm of those who have invested Forma and time into Xaku to hit this sweet power spot.

Hey DE, which of these two situations seems ideal?

A) A video game that EVERYONE claims to be REALLY GOOD.

B) A video game that TWO PEOPLE claim to GET GOOD EVENTUALLY.

If you answered A then you need to stop and think about what you're doing because you're going in the complete opposite direction.

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I love the changes and can't wait to get my hands on them! Though; Feedback:

I feel the guns for Grasp of Lohk need their firing range buffed, not the range of the ability, I find that's pretty fine compared to the amount of max guns, but base range you almost have to be side-by-side with enemies to shoot them, and I don't think that's fair to the ability, as it's a decent ability to mod for, but base it's lackluster.

Related to this, I think the positioning of the guns should be tweaked, as with my build with tons of range, when I steal guns half of them go underneath the floor, nerfing the ability (unless they don't care about line of sight) being fruitlessly nerfed/hard capped.

With Void damage being a lore-based really intimidating element, the wishy-washy opinion of it by the community just doesn't fit, it's "Void" damage, people should be pumped to use it. Someone came up with the idea of "Center the bullet magnet around the mob's weak spot like the Scourge" and I think that'll GREATLY change people's opinion on the element as a whole, in addition to the "True Neutral" typing, it would be an element people would be excited to use, but not a "Guaranteed in" under any means, the perfect spot for an ability/content.

I've heard talk about "Gaze is really powerful with six forma" and that just sounds... Why are you building THAT MUCH around an ability? The "Sweet spot" thing I understand, but it should be, like, three or four maybe? I think it would make a lot of sense to buff the bottom line, and make the scaling worse to bring it back to that sweet spot. As I don't typically use Gaze, being someone with 1 forma in him and unlikely to spend 4 forma on a single ability.

Also people have voiced issue with the Graphical effects of Xata's Whisper on other frames, and that pairs with, I feel the effect on your warframe should be akin to that of the "Void Buff" you get from Relics (Graphically of course), it would be apt to his design, and it's a good looking effect to begin with.

And lastly, I feel like if Xaku gave a portion of his Xata's Whisper buff to his other abilities (Lohk and The Lost) as a Synergy bonus unique to Xaku, it would make his kit more interactive.

Anyways, I love the changes thus far. And my REALLY FUN Grasp of Lohk build thanks you (As I might be able to take off Natural talent), I SERIOUSLY can't wait for next week.

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hace 22 horas, D1videdByZer0 dijo:

I do wonder if void damage can be improved even further by giving it a certain proc.

It's have a proper proc: bullet attractor, that's the green bubble you can see sometimes in enemies when you're attacking with the operator.

hace 22 horas, D1videdByZer0 dijo:

So every stack of void proc would increase damage taken by all other sources by 10% or something

That's the viral effect actually.

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Those changes still good, but not incredible.
Xaku is a good frame but don't really has his place in a team.

Imo, Xaku seems to be a frame based on his 2 & 4 abilities. While 3 are good to be used as utilitaries, and 1 is .. not good. I said that as I don't like void status proc, may be it could need any changes, buffs ?

But yeah, The Lost (3rd ability) could be more powerful if you give some buff :

  • Deny :
    • Deny should bounce/chain on X enemies near to the impact or a selected enemy. I'd like to see it working as Volt 1st ability even if it's not an electric ability ahah.
    • Otherwise, for an insane synergy with 2nd ability, it could be cast as a cone in front of Xaku. Which means reduced damages, but more effective as an area effect
    • The ability can be charged to increase the effective area, and it wille be shown (like Hydroid abilities, Ember 1st ability .. etc ..).
  • Accuse :
    • Increase radius by 2 or 3 meter to make it more efficient.
    • Increase targets cap or remove it : 
      • Remove cap, it will just prove Nyx need a real rework, and it'll be more relevant to Xaku's potential. And to complete it, reduce output damage from enrolled enemies to 50%, and will increase by ability strength, capped at 100% output damage.
  • Gaze :
    • Increase radius by 2 or 3 meter to make it more efficient.

 

Grasp Of Lohk (2nd ability) could get a buff too :

  • Using it on enemies affected by Deny give 2x Attack Speed and 4x Damage Multiplier  Yx Attack Speed and Zx Damage Multiplier to void weapons, each are increased by power strength and have their own ratio (for example 0.25% attack speed for each 50% of ability strength, and 0.15% for damage multiplier). In this case, using this ability can convert it more like a DPS dealer than just a disarm ability with some damage capabilities.
  • In other case, Weapon Damage still the same, but Attack Speed will be based on the weapon generated itself. For example, don't tell me a Void Gorgon will deal the same damage than a Void Grakata ? Same thing about their attack speed ? 
  • Generate our weapon will use his damage mods or his damage with some limitations (Do them like you want). I already tried to use my own weapon (casting it on melee enemies) vs enemies weapons .. and I dealt the same, so please fix it.

 

May be give an other buff to The Vast Untime (4th ability) ?

  • Enemies touched by this ability will be open to take more damages by Grasp Of Lohk. The % will be locked and will not increase with power strength.

 

The principal goal is not making Xaku the best frame, but make him more powerful and polyvalent. The reality is some frames need a real rework, as Hydroid, Nyx .. So reusing one or more mecanics from some of their abilities isn't a bad idea.

I'll finish with the fact that Xaku can be an insane frame, where synergy and possibilities (depending as always on the build you make) can create an unique frame. So don't hesitate to give more creativity to his 3rd ability. That's one of the best thing we can expect from you DE.

Edited by _ORaluKa_
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The changes are good and start, but giving more duration and range on his second and third and a lil more duration on his fourth would make it a lot better. Also with void damage the bubble doesn't allow bullets to do headshots, that should be something that yall should add with the void changes, making void damage a great ability. Also allowing his first to effect his second would make it an even better ability to use.

I have about 6/7 forma on him and the changes that yall are bringing is good and a start like a said. But because of his gaze(which is the best ability)needing 200 percent strength to strip 100 percent armor it takes away from his duration and range depending on how u build him. That's y I was saying more duration and range is needed 

Edited by (PS4)Zerorama-7
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Xaku does not fulfill any role in the game due to his statistics and his complete kit in addition to requiring all the strength, range, duration and efficiency stats because without range his ability 3 does not work, without duration his abilities do not last long except the 1, without efficiency you spend a lot of energy recasting the skill, this means that there is no synergy when making a xaku build and the short duration of skill 2, 3 and 4 make it even worse.

Also the damage doesn't scale with enemies level because void damage isn't that good, reducing 50% resistance of enemies is good but still void need a rework and give it a proc effect, void should be more strong than the others status.

Is like you depend in your weapons to kill enemies because the kit isn't that good, you require range, strenght and duration in the same time and you can't because the mods doesn't give you a good synergy, you only gonna run and jump to avoid things and you want to kill enemies.

Edited by xlPreXiioNzlx
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Cards on the table, I have not yet built/played with Xaku, largely because their kit seemed disjointed and uninteresting at the outset, and for another reason I'll touch on momentarily.

The first round of changes looks really good, though. The added synergy with The Vast Untime should do a lot to tie their kit together, and feels like the big kit synergy centerpiece they were missing.

My biggest complaint at this point may be a personal gripe, but I just don't like 3-in-1 abilities with the tap to rotate/hold to cast style. They feel too slow and clunky for the pace of the game as a whole. I love Wisp's kit, for example, but putting down all three motes is so agonizing so I rarely play her (as an aside, an exilus augment that lets you just plop down all three motes on one spot with one button press would be *chef kiss*).

That said, I strongly propose that Deny be removed from Xaku's 3 and instead added to their 2 as an alternate cast, and making both abilities have tap/hold functionality. so their 2 would be tap- Grasp of Lohk/hold- Deny and three would be tap- Gaze/hold-Accuse (or vice versa, I based the tap/hold designations on the ability's cast times as I understand them). This would make gameplay for Xaku much more fluid and, frankly, would make me actually bother to build Xaku, because I think this first round is definitely getting them to where their kit seems interesting but I'm very strongly put off by wheel abilities, having experienced them on several other frames already.

Otherwise, seems great all around!

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And yet the range of all of the abilities is going to stay woefully under decent viability.

At least increase the range of Grasp, yeesh. I don't want to have to french kiss my enemies before being able to steal their weapons.

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On 2020-09-10 at 7:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Currently, Void damage is relatively ineffective against Cloned Flesh and Fossilized enemies which greatly limits the use of Xata’s Whisper on Grineer and Infested enemies. In an effort to give it (and Void damage in general) more utility across enemy categories, we are removing this resistance so that it aligns with its neutral effectiveness against the other enemy types. It is important to note that Eidolons, Amalgams, and certain bosses will still maintain this resistance.

I have an idea... instead of everything 0% rezistance, buff it to 25% weakness on everything. Then it might be viable. Or make operators any fun to play during normal missions.

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Still doesn't adress the absurd energy cost and the fact that you basically need every stat on Xaku 

we can't afford spamming any abiltiies with Xaku DE...

 

Also removing the void resistance is nice but still doesn't do anything about void status making your weapons weaker by denying you any headshot multiplier 

Why not go the opposite actually , void makes the target go insane and therefore the status bubble makes you always headshot ? 

 

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I still dearly request dedicated hotkeys for The Lost and all other multi-function abilities.. It would do wonders for gameplay to have all three abilities one keystroke away, versus a Hold +tap. 

Otherwise, all the changes are positive. I'll work towards 6-forma to feel what people are talking about.

 

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Overall these sound like great changes!

Passive: This is definitely a move in the right direction so that AoE's don't negate the passive.  However, I feel like there's an issue where this passive is hard to appreciate, since we just have to trust that it's working, and bad RNG can provide times where it would seem to not be working at all.  It would be nice if there was some sort of feedback to the player when this ability was kicking in...which I know is hard, because we wouldn't want this kind of feedback to be overwhelming like constant sound-effects or VFX whenever there were a few machine guns aimed at you.

Perhaps this ability could play a bit like Volt's passive, where there's a counter of how many attacks have been "dodged", or perhaps even better how much "damage" has been dodged.  And then when Xaku cast's an ability, that counter can add some minor fuel to the ability and reset.  That would maybe be like the attacks are getting sucked into the void and being rechanneled in some way.  But mainly it would just be nice to have some feedback that shows that the passive is actually having an impact.

Xata's Whisper: One thing that I haven't seen anyone else talk about is the effect of Xata's Whisper on melee weapons.  Currently, if you are using melee weapons as your primary means of attack, Xata's Whisper is a double-edged sword: it adds more damage, but it technically lowers your status chance; this is because Void status only benefits ranged attacks, so when your melee procs but the proc selected is Void, your melee attack technically just wasted a proc.  I'm guessing it's not intentional for Xata's Whisper to negatively impact melee weapons?  So it may be worth considering adapting the Void status to not be something that only benefits ranged attacks.  Perhaps Void status could treat all melee attacks as if they impacted the target's weak point (like the head)?  That seems to fit with the theme of the mag-bubble "drawing attacks" towards the enemy.

Grasp of Lohk: I think the reduced cast animation and recast were exactly what this ability needed!

The Lost: Deny's buff seems really interesting, and may be just what this slow, single-target ability needs to be worth using.  Eagerly awaiting info on the other sub-abilities.

The Vast Untime: I really like the changes to The Vast Untime, and am eager to play with them.  I'm very curious to hear how this synergy affects builds, since it seems like it will technically increase the duration of all other abilities.  Honestly, I just want to run around as a skeleton all the time, so it will be interesting to see how the improved energy economy and AoE survivability impacts this.

 

Thanks to everyone who has worked so hard to make Xaku come to life!  I love their aesthetic so much and I can't wait to see what's in store for them.

Edited by (PS4)Unstar
adjusted the section on Passive to include "damage dodged"
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On 2020-09-10 at 1:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

It is important to note that Eidolons, Amalgams, and certain bosses will still maintain this resistance.

I don't understand the reasoning behind this. Eidolons are sentients, Amalgams are partially sentient, logically they should be more vulnerable to void damage, not less. Gameplaywise people already use their amps/void damage solely for eidolon shields anyway, nobody uses void damage to kill amalgams because other damage sources are quicker, and definitely nobody uses void damage on eidolon hull/health because a rad-modded big game rifle is so much faster for popping synovias. Bosses I can at least understand having void resist, even if I don't see the point since nobody is using their amp to shoot at non-eidolon bosses anyway so this mainly just seems like punishing Xaku and people who infuse their 1, but why in Redtext's name are any sentient enemies resistant to the very thing billed as the big trump card against sentients? Making Xaku's 1 arbitrarily not work on eidolons despite that being the only current niche for void damage (and, I guess, shifting profit taker shield?) was already crippling one piece of Xaku's kit right out of the gate, but this just seems pointless. Nobody uses void damage on eidolons once the shields are down in the first place.

Still, at least void damage is finally losing the malus vs common enemies.

Honestly though, void damage needs a major rework to be viable. Just axing a few nonsensical resistances doesn't go anywhere far enough. Why would I build for void damage from any source (Xaku 1/infusion, amp, any other void damage sources you introduce in the future) when I could use something like viral or radiation?

What I'd do is make it so void damage has 75% damage buff vs all sentients. Yes, including eidolons - they already die quickly as it is to a skilled hunting party anyway, this just makes void damage more able to compete with the mighty rad-cold big game rifle. Amalgams can get a 25-50% buff instead, to represent the fact that they're part sent. This would make it so that void niche is sent hunting, just like, say, corrosive is meta for killing big infested. Then I'd change the void proc. Either it grants a damage bonus for every bullet that passes through the sphere ala Mag's magnetize (magnetize can still affect a much wider area so this doesn't obsolete poor Mag), or it works like scourge in that the bullets seek out the vulnerable headfruit, granting some bonus damage, bypassing corpus shieldgate, and making those riven headshot challenges a little easier. Or something else, but as it stands the diet bullet attractor effect is arguably worse than nothing at all, since it redirects headshots to the body.

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While removing all damage resistances against void damage is good, there's still one more problem with it: the status effect. When the void effect procs it causes all projectiles to redirect to the enemy's center, leaving you unable to land headshots no matter where you shoot and increasing the time it takes to kill tough enemies. I personally think the void status effect should be act a bit more like Mag's Magnetize (minus the damage boost, explosion, and enemy attraction) so you'd still have the ability to land headshots while the effect is active.

No void status effect https://gfycat.com/zanyamplebumblebee

Void status effect demo https://gfycat.com/cleanniftyibisbill

Magnetize demo https://gfycat.com/similarsmartgroundhog

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