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About Deny, now that it has potential in the damage output, there should be a way to capitalize on its CC effect as well.

Rather than a locked pinpoint accurate cast, allow us to sweep the beam by moving the reticle during the animation. The Void beam roughly lasts 1.5 seconds, so during that time we could cover a nice bit of area in Void laser devastation or suspension worth a 75 energy cost.

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Great changes for Xaku but for sure still needs range improvement on all his abilities, guns should work more like how proteas gun does for range, his Deny should work like Trinity's health ability and pick the target up and deal damage to the target and anyone in the range with a blast at the end with built up damaged on death like how Trinity's energy and health work. The grasp of the guns should be closer to nidus's range , makes no sense to make it so he can't grab from afar. The changes to void dmg might make a difference but his void damage should definitely play a role towards eidolon hunting and needs to be increased in how much dmg is actually put out. The vast untime improvement is pretty cool , to be able to kepp the grasp active as long as you have your 4th ability active will help with duration play and you'll be able to accuse then keep it active for a longer period of time while in vast . But the blast dmg need to be fixed also on the vast , needs to be more effective and more slowness should be added. The reason I say this is if you play xaku on arbitration with the extra strength, his vast untime is strong enough to cause 95% slowness and LITERALLY freezes all enemies in the area. I feel this should be an option to be able to mod xaku with enough strength to freeze enemies without extra strength boost. Other than that he just needs a better skin now lol

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On 2020-09-10 at 7:12 PM, SSI_Seraph said:

Dodge chance or evasion should just be forever removed from kits. They don't work, No one wants to gamble on whether or not they live or die. This was already discussed when titania was reworked.

This definitely needs a change. If there's something that I absolutely hate is rng based "defensive" abilities. 

In a game where the player gets shot at every second, a rng defensive ability is just worthless.

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On 2020-09-12 at 2:43 AM, FelisImpurrator said:

Amalgams actually are resistant to Void. I'm sure you've heard the Ropalolyst dialogue a thousand times, but it says so there, that Amalgams were meant to 'cure' Sentients' crippling Void weakness.

As for Eidolons, that's presumably just a balancing choice for now given that certain Warframe builds (like, say, Volt with Xata's Whisper) would be able to just win the entire fight without bothering to use the Operator at all, and the Eidolon fight is already so full of balancing issues they don't want to add another.

No one cares about trying to maintain balance at this point. Amps are completely worthless anyway, especially after DE added knockback to some of the components. It'll also give people a reason to use Helminth to add Xaku's ability onto other Warframes since it'll make the shield phases of Tridolons less of a headache. Especially for solo players.

What's the point of having a Warframe that uses Void damage if it's completely unusable against the one thing that element is good at?

21 minutes ago, Necrosaur said:

Grasp of lohk needs to have a decent duration also: currently it's very short, maybe make the weapons deal less damage by some % to compensate.

All of Xaku's other ability timers will pause while using The Vast Untime. So it won't be quite as necessary to build so much duration now.

 

Edited by Ace-Bounty-Hunter
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Thank you for the changes to Xaku.

My opinions:

- Xata's Whisper needs to be stonger

- Grasp needs more range

- Gaze needs more range

Also, don't base the decision to make changes or not one people who spent 6 forma to make it good. That's just ridiculous.

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One frustrating thing that I haven't seen mentioned often, Gaze's casting time, or rather, having to target an enemy with a "hold the key", often leads to a frustrating result.
The target is killed before or as it begins to be affected by the ability.
Sometimes even by the weapons of grasp of lohk.
Usually that means enemies are weak enough that you don't have to take away their defense, yes, but it's still frustrating to waste time casting an ability that doesn't give result.
So, why not consider a radical change of Gaze, and make it a toggle that reduces enemy defenses in a cone field of view ?
Or is that the kind of idea to keep for a future augment mod ?

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On 2020-09-10 at 7:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Here is how we are changing Xata’s Whisper:
 

  • We are making Void damage ‘True Neutral’ by removing the 50% resistance of Void damage on Cloned Flesh and Fossilized enemies - a long desired request for Void damage.
    • Currently, Void damage is relatively ineffective against Cloned Flesh and Fossilized enemies which greatly limits the use of Xata’s Whisper on Grineer and Infested enemies. In an effort to give it (and Void damage in general) more utility across enemy categories, we are removing this resistance so that it aligns with its neutral effectiveness against the other enemy types. It is important to note that Eidolons, Amalgams, and certain bosses will still maintain this resistance.

That's nice and all but you're missing a fantastic opportunity here. As mentioned by others, this void damage buff needs to be effective against eidolon shields and other sentients. It's time to finally admit that operators and all the content that requires them were a dismal failure and do nothing but make the game worse. Since you're unwilling to outright remove them, making them irrelevant by allowing warframes to perform their functions is the next best thing. I hope you have the courage to admit this and follow up on it with this much-needed change.

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3 hours ago, Necrosaur said:

Grasp of lohk needs to have a decent duration also: currently it's very short, maybe make the weapons deal less damage by some % to compensate.

I mean with just primed continuity Vast untime will be adding 30 seconds to every other abilities duration.

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At this point Im only echoing this, but for the love of god almighty change The lost to tap to cast and hold to switch PLEASE. It feels so incredibly clunky and slow ESPECIALLY with the long cast animations. 

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Only just found out now that xata's whisper does not apply to weapons gained by grasp of lohk, that seems like a synergy that could be made. just kinda assumed it did already but turns out it doesn't.

That being said though this is all great, keep up the good work!

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44 minutes ago, Sound said:

At this point Im only echoing this, but for the love of god almighty change The lost to tap to cast and hold to switch PLEASE. It feels so incredibly clunky and slow ESPECIALLY with the long cast animations. 

You can invert the tap/hold in your options. Currently it's in line with all the other frames except Khora. Khora is the one frame that doesn't have the same tap/hold like other frames. (Vauban, Ivara, etc.)

 

I have a thread of the frames that are different here and trying to add more tap/hold skills as I unlock or use them.

 

Edited by ShyGuySpirit
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On 2020-09-10 at 1:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Here is how we are changing Xata’s Whisper:

  • We are making Void damage ‘True Neutral’ by removing the 50% resistance of Void damage on Cloned Flesh and Fossilized enemies - a long desired request for Void damage.
    • Currently, Void damage is relatively ineffective against Cloned Flesh and Fossilized enemies which greatly limits the use of Xata’s Whisper on Grineer and Infested enemies. In an effort to give it (and Void damage in general) more utility across enemy categories, we are removing this resistance so that it aligns with its neutral effectiveness against the other enemy types. It is important to note that Eidolons, Amalgams, and certain bosses will still maintain this resistance.

This was the main problem with Xaku in my eyes. Thank you for fixing it!

I think Xaku's abilities were well designed, it was just that they dealt a damage type that had very niche uses.

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24 minutes ago, Teletric said:

This was the main problem with Xaku in my eyes. Thank you for fixing it!

I think Xaku's abilities were well designed, it was just that they dealt a damage type that had very niche uses.

Honestly DE is doing everything in their power to make Void damage/status as useless as possible.

It's pseudo-magnetize is more ofthen than not detrimental, the fact that they went out of their way to make Xaku's first not work against eidolon's shields is even worse.

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I quite object that ppl say Xaku is useless or on par to Grandel. Actually Xaku kit is not bad if it come in well adjustment.

But first release for him is really nightmare. form many skill limitation make him just no fun to play at all. Yes i'm not mean he now useful as wide range box destroyer. Actually it kit can be fun with right adjustment.

I can forscene that Xata's whisper may become more potent in New War content that comming. DE should at least buff damage of Void to Sentient not just remove it resistance. Many ppl complain about how void effect make it harder to do headshot, but i think it's same to Mag's Magnitize just aim at top of dome and bullet will pull down to mob's head. Actually void effect is very potent one. it's can be your life saver since you can use mob that get that void effect as your meat shield. this effect mean you got both defend and damage in one set Just if DE allow Xata's whisper give more proc rate with no need very high status chance weapon to proc it. I use to test this void effect with very high status chance weapon. it's quite charm, just make sure keep hit many enemy around you , it save you WF while also make enemy kill themself.

For Grasp of lohk - this one really have potential skill. If it not madness long cast ability. and with a good range. With this fix, I really hope no more long casting time. and as you can keep recast it that is one of best adjustment i really ask for. Since sometime we stuck with 1 weapon until duration gone. If you test it with range. you can see with many gun stolen this ability not that bad damage. But now it still stay with last bad thing, a range. I'm fine with weapon stolen range as long as it not madness cast time. But it's fire range is very short. It's like you steal enemy gun to use it to smack them with the gun than shot them. Since the range is just a bit futher than melee range. I'm not see why this not possible to just deivde disarm range and fire range on 2 stat not keep it together.

The lost - Like it or not this Gaze and Accuse is very good kit, with little tweak. Accuse just need ability to recast, sometime we stuck with 1 or 2 enemy while tons running to us. Just make it can recast and just remove one that was thralled unless it hit new cast area. Gaze is just fine with it currently stat. It's very strong defend removal so i understand why it's got limitation to place in. Deny one is sadely balnace in this kit. Not just it's so weak, long casting time, not energy utilize compare to how useage, just linear attack and poor cc ability. That why it's end up nothing really work about it. I really feel that this skill must move to Xata's whisper as push ability. and Void buff work with HOLD. this will make The Lost left only 2 skill - you push for Gaze and HOLD for Accuse. so it will get rid of skill wheel make it more utilize. Do this will cause Deny use balance energy compare to how it work (Linear attack, deal damage with very little target cc short duration)

For The Vast Untime - I very excite to see how phase one adjustment going on field than on paper. One best adjustment for this round is to make you can freeze other ability timer with this skill. But I still feel DE not understand well about Evasion, The fact of this game is, Yes you may try to dodge enemy's bullet. but most of time you still keep getting hit. That why Adaptation mod is very essential in high level enemy. Since it's will cut down your damage very fast. Make you can survive easier. But when come to Evasion when bullet pass Xaku it's not deal damage, So Adaptation was not active or it's can't build resistance enough to maintain high damage cut. Evasion it's make you may not hit some bullet, but when you hit you will hit hard. This make Xaku have a problem with survival potential. If you want to make evasion really useful. It's need like base on 50 percent so that can help Xaku trade off it defend. And with Vast untime, it's must be increase to 90 percent so most of bullet will pass through him. while some deal high damage to him (Since you can't got full potitial form adaptation mod) . I just wonder why DE not notice why ppl keep saying Xaku have aproblem with survive potential since he is a frame with surviving passive and even not have that low def. Even some other quite old weak def frame i still feel have more survival potential than Xaku right now.

Edited by LumilSilvermoon
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On 2020-09-10 at 7:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Tenno,

Keeping within the realm of the “community-created Warframe” project, Xaku will be receiving numerous changes based on your feedback! We have read countless paragraphs and posts, watched hundreds of minutes of YouTube feedback, and more! We tried to gravitate toward certain areas for Round 1 changes, which were highlighted most frequently or compellingly in your feedback. Adjustments may be made between now and when the changes go live!

Here is how we are changing Xaku’s Passive: 

  • Including AOE damage reduction as part of Xaku’s Passive. 
    • How it will work: AOE damage will simply take a 25% damage reduction (75% while The Vast Untime is active).
    • Currently, Xaku’s Passive reduces incoming weapon damage. Which includes projectile, hitscan, and melee attacks, but does not include any protection from enemy AOE damage. For example, if an enemy shot a rocket at Xaku, the projectile itself would have a 25% chance to pass through them and deal no damage (75% with The Vast Untime), but the explosion following would have the full effect. With this change, Xaku’s Passive grants them 25% damage reduction on the following AOE explosion from that rocket. That’s increased to 75% when Xaku is running around bare bones!

Here is how we are changing Xata’s Whisper:
 

  • We are making Void damage ‘True Neutral’ by removing the 50% resistance of Void damage on Cloned Flesh and Fossilized enemies - a long desired request for Void damage.
    • Currently, Void damage is relatively ineffective against Cloned Flesh and Fossilized enemies which greatly limits the use of Xata’s Whisper on Grineer and Infested enemies. In an effort to give it (and Void damage in general) more utility across enemy categories, we are removing this resistance so that it aligns with its neutral effectiveness against the other enemy types. It is important to note that Eidolons, Amalgams, and certain bosses will still maintain this resistance.

Here is how we are changing Grasp of Lohk:

  • Increasing the speed at which enemies are disarmed so that it occurs earlier in the casting animation. Also increasing the casting animation speed overall. 
    • Currently, the point of when enemies are disarmed once Grasp of Lohk is cast is far too delayed. 
  • Allowing Grasp of Lohk to be recast. 
    • How it will work: Any existing Grasp of Lohk weapons will simply be replaced by the new cast up to the maximum amount of targets.
    • Currently, once Grasp of Lohk is cast you are locked with the weapons that were grabbed until the end of the ability’s duration. This is obviously limiting if the ability was cast with undesired effect. To counteract this limitation, we are adding the option to recast. With the added benefit of resetting the ability’s duration and disarming a new set of enemies where/when desired. 


Here is how we are changing The Lost: Deny

  • Adding synergy between Deny and Grasp of Lohk that increases Deny’s damage output.
    • How it will work: The number of weapons orbiting Xaku from Grasp of Lohk act as a damage multiplier for Deny’s Void beam. For example: If you have 4 weapons orbiting Xaku, Deny’s damage will be granted a 5x multiplier. 
  • Increasing the casting speed of Deny. 
    • More firepower… faster!
       

Here is why we are not changing Accuse or Gaze yet.
 
A couple of posts, notably those written by people with verified 6 Forma installations, have realized just how powerful Gaze can be in certain mission types. So we are leaving Gaze untouched for now so we can continue to evaluate it within the realm of those who have invested Forma and time into Xaku to hit this sweet power spot.

Accuse is also untouched for this round, but first thing on our list for next round would be allowing Accuse to be re-cast, but we are awaiting that decision based on how this Round goes.
 

Here is how we are changing The Vast Untime:

  • Removing the Energy drain and keeping it a duration based ability. 
    • Currently, the Energy drain on top of its casting cost and duration is far too restrictive and punishing. 
  • Adding Synergy between The Vast Untime and all of Xaku’s other abilities. 
    • How it will work: Emphasis on “Untime”, when Xaku is in their skeletal form their other active abilities’ duration will become frozen in time. Once The Vast Untime expires, the duration of those active abilities resume. This was suggested in our feedback readings and we quite enjoyed the play on the ‘untime’ theme and the added benefit to Xaku overall! We feel that since this no longer has an Energy drain, and that it halts the timer on other abilities, the energy demands of Xaku’s kit will be significantly lessened. 
      • Note: This will not apply to Helminth abilities and abilities from other Warframes from Helminth subsuming. 
         

When?

We plan on releasing all of these changes on PC next week, and Console shortly after. 

Thank you, Tenno! May Xata Whisper good tidings to you all! 

Pls release these changes as soon as you just possibly can <3 I want to play this frame but right now they're just frustrating to use but I really really want to like them :( Their theme is awesome but rn it is the only good thing about this frame.

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Idea for Grasp of Lohk:

The duration for Grasp of Lohk can't be reset, but there is no limit in the number of targets/number of weapons. Additional casts of this ability will add to the current number of weapons. Maybe also a nerf in base duration (because you can freeze the duration with 4) and a buff in weapon range and it could be a really fun ability in my opinion.

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The changes seems to be in the right direction. Althought xaku  suffers from his own abilities requirements. To change evade with dmg reduction should be the only option from the start. Evade is simple useless. Lohk has very low range and duration, even with the recast option idk why to someone invest on it. Gaze needs more basic range and u need 200% strength  to take that 100% armor reduction. His ultimate requires a lot of energy and i hope with the new changes the duration of it will not be low (that will make lohk kinda playable, with that time freeze thing). The basic stats of second and third ability are low and requires a good ammount of strenght, duration and range to make them worth, which is impossible to achieve.  Even with these changes i cannot see how that could be  fixed. Maybe simple buffing the basic range/ duration  of those two abilities would be the answer. 

Edited by One-shot-one-miss
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Here's Xaku's 2 biggest problems right now: 

They are EXTREMELY energy hungry. These new changes seems to be really good tweaks to change on this both with duration increase with the ult and with the removal of the energy drain.

The second problem is probably going to be the biggest issue after these changes, which is their survivability. I know not every frame needs to be super tanky or anything, but if they have something that can increase their surviving capabilities then pls for the love of god don't make it RNG based. Both Xaku's passive and Ult's evasion buff work unreliably in lots of situations in warframe and it demands us to either use something to boost this stat up, for example with the carnis mod set, which somehow doesn't really work the way it should work because with + 30% evasion with the ult's 75% doesn't seem to acknowlede the law of that one simple mathematical equation that demands this two number to get added so it should be 105%. But I tested it multiple times both in simula and in missions and it just doesn't work that way. The two seem to work independently from each other, but even if it could boost Xaku's evasion it wouldn't last really long because 6 seconds for a heavy attack that surely needs to kill its target is not really rewarding and it makes the carnis set also unreliable.
So we end up with a slow that only slows enemies that got caught in the blast radius, with an evasion that either decides to work or not based on RNG and with an also unreliable void dmg vulnerability debuff that also only applies to enemies caught in the blast radius. 

Oh and also please buff the shooting range of their second ability, the gun needs to be like 0.0000000000000001 centimeters close to an enemy to make them actually shoot something.

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