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Upcoming Xaku Changes!


[DE]Danielle

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On 2020-09-10 at 7:12 PM, SSI_Seraph said:

Dodge chance or evasion should just be forever removed from kits. They don't work, No one wants to gamble on whether or not they live or die. This was already discussed when titania was reworked.

This definitely needs a change. If there's something that I absolutely hate is rng based "defensive" abilities. 

In a game where the player gets shot at every second, a rng defensive ability is just worthless.

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On 2020-09-12 at 2:43 AM, FelisImpurrator said:

Amalgams actually are resistant to Void. I'm sure you've heard the Ropalolyst dialogue a thousand times, but it says so there, that Amalgams were meant to 'cure' Sentients' crippling Void weakness.

As for Eidolons, that's presumably just a balancing choice for now given that certain Warframe builds (like, say, Volt with Xata's Whisper) would be able to just win the entire fight without bothering to use the Operator at all, and the Eidolon fight is already so full of balancing issues they don't want to add another.

No one cares about trying to maintain balance at this point. Amps are completely worthless anyway, especially after DE added knockback to some of the components. It'll also give people a reason to use Helminth to add Xaku's ability onto other Warframes since it'll make the shield phases of Tridolons less of a headache. Especially for solo players.

What's the point of having a Warframe that uses Void damage if it's completely unusable against the one thing that element is good at?

21 minutes ago, Necrosaur said:

Grasp of lohk needs to have a decent duration also: currently it's very short, maybe make the weapons deal less damage by some % to compensate.

All of Xaku's other ability timers will pause while using The Vast Untime. So it won't be quite as necessary to build so much duration now.

 

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One frustrating thing that I haven't seen mentioned often, Gaze's casting time, or rather, having to target an enemy with a "hold the key", often leads to a frustrating result.
The target is killed before or as it begins to be affected by the ability.
Sometimes even by the weapons of grasp of lohk.
Usually that means enemies are weak enough that you don't have to take away their defense, yes, but it's still frustrating to waste time casting an ability that doesn't give result.
So, why not consider a radical change of Gaze, and make it a toggle that reduces enemy defenses in a cone field of view ?
Or is that the kind of idea to keep for a future augment mod ?

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On 2020-09-10 at 7:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Here is how we are changing Xata’s Whisper:
 

  • We are making Void damage ‘True Neutral’ by removing the 50% resistance of Void damage on Cloned Flesh and Fossilized enemies - a long desired request for Void damage.
    • Currently, Void damage is relatively ineffective against Cloned Flesh and Fossilized enemies which greatly limits the use of Xata’s Whisper on Grineer and Infested enemies. In an effort to give it (and Void damage in general) more utility across enemy categories, we are removing this resistance so that it aligns with its neutral effectiveness against the other enemy types. It is important to note that Eidolons, Amalgams, and certain bosses will still maintain this resistance.

That's nice and all but you're missing a fantastic opportunity here. As mentioned by others, this void damage buff needs to be effective against eidolon shields and other sentients. It's time to finally admit that operators and all the content that requires them were a dismal failure and do nothing but make the game worse. Since you're unwilling to outright remove them, making them irrelevant by allowing warframes to perform their functions is the next best thing. I hope you have the courage to admit this and follow up on it with this much-needed change.

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44 minutes ago, Sound said:

At this point Im only echoing this, but for the love of god almighty change The lost to tap to cast and hold to switch PLEASE. It feels so incredibly clunky and slow ESPECIALLY with the long cast animations. 

You can invert the tap/hold in your options. Currently it's in line with all the other frames except Khora. Khora is the one frame that doesn't have the same tap/hold like other frames. (Vauban, Ivara, etc.)

 

I have a thread of the frames that are different here and trying to add more tap/hold skills as I unlock or use them.

 

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On 2020-09-10 at 1:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Here is how we are changing Xata’s Whisper:

  • We are making Void damage ‘True Neutral’ by removing the 50% resistance of Void damage on Cloned Flesh and Fossilized enemies - a long desired request for Void damage.
    • Currently, Void damage is relatively ineffective against Cloned Flesh and Fossilized enemies which greatly limits the use of Xata’s Whisper on Grineer and Infested enemies. In an effort to give it (and Void damage in general) more utility across enemy categories, we are removing this resistance so that it aligns with its neutral effectiveness against the other enemy types. It is important to note that Eidolons, Amalgams, and certain bosses will still maintain this resistance.

This was the main problem with Xaku in my eyes. Thank you for fixing it!

I think Xaku's abilities were well designed, it was just that they dealt a damage type that had very niche uses.

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24 minutes ago, Teletric said:

This was the main problem with Xaku in my eyes. Thank you for fixing it!

I think Xaku's abilities were well designed, it was just that they dealt a damage type that had very niche uses.

Honestly DE is doing everything in their power to make Void damage/status as useless as possible.

It's pseudo-magnetize is more ofthen than not detrimental, the fact that they went out of their way to make Xaku's first not work against eidolon's shields is even worse.

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I quite object that ppl say Xaku is useless or on par to Grandel. Actually Xaku kit is not bad if it come in well adjustment.

But first release for him is really nightmare. form many skill limitation make him just no fun to play at all. Yes i'm not mean he now useful as wide range box destroyer. Actually it kit can be fun with right adjustment.

I can forscene that Xata's whisper may become more potent in New War content that comming. DE should at least buff damage of Void to Sentient not just remove it resistance. Many ppl complain about how void effect make it harder to do headshot, but i think it's same to Mag's Magnitize just aim at top of dome and bullet will pull down to mob's head. Actually void effect is very potent one. it's can be your life saver since you can use mob that get that void effect as your meat shield. this effect mean you got both defend and damage in one set Just if DE allow Xata's whisper give more proc rate with no need very high status chance weapon to proc it. I use to test this void effect with very high status chance weapon. it's quite charm, just make sure keep hit many enemy around you , it save you WF while also make enemy kill themself.

For Grasp of lohk - this one really have potential skill. If it not madness long cast ability. and with a good range. With this fix, I really hope no more long casting time. and as you can keep recast it that is one of best adjustment i really ask for. Since sometime we stuck with 1 weapon until duration gone. If you test it with range. you can see with many gun stolen this ability not that bad damage. But now it still stay with last bad thing, a range. I'm fine with weapon stolen range as long as it not madness cast time. But it's fire range is very short. It's like you steal enemy gun to use it to smack them with the gun than shot them. Since the range is just a bit futher than melee range. I'm not see why this not possible to just deivde disarm range and fire range on 2 stat not keep it together.

The lost - Like it or not this Gaze and Accuse is very good kit, with little tweak. Accuse just need ability to recast, sometime we stuck with 1 or 2 enemy while tons running to us. Just make it can recast and just remove one that was thralled unless it hit new cast area. Gaze is just fine with it currently stat. It's very strong defend removal so i understand why it's got limitation to place in. Deny one is sadely balnace in this kit. Not just it's so weak, long casting time, not energy utilize compare to how useage, just linear attack and poor cc ability. That why it's end up nothing really work about it. I really feel that this skill must move to Xata's whisper as push ability. and Void buff work with HOLD. this will make The Lost left only 2 skill - you push for Gaze and HOLD for Accuse. so it will get rid of skill wheel make it more utilize. Do this will cause Deny use balance energy compare to how it work (Linear attack, deal damage with very little target cc short duration)

For The Vast Untime - I very excite to see how phase one adjustment going on field than on paper. One best adjustment for this round is to make you can freeze other ability timer with this skill. But I still feel DE not understand well about Evasion, The fact of this game is, Yes you may try to dodge enemy's bullet. but most of time you still keep getting hit. That why Adaptation mod is very essential in high level enemy. Since it's will cut down your damage very fast. Make you can survive easier. But when come to Evasion when bullet pass Xaku it's not deal damage, So Adaptation was not active or it's can't build resistance enough to maintain high damage cut. Evasion it's make you may not hit some bullet, but when you hit you will hit hard. This make Xaku have a problem with survival potential. If you want to make evasion really useful. It's need like base on 50 percent so that can help Xaku trade off it defend. And with Vast untime, it's must be increase to 90 percent so most of bullet will pass through him. while some deal high damage to him (Since you can't got full potitial form adaptation mod) . I just wonder why DE not notice why ppl keep saying Xaku have aproblem with survive potential since he is a frame with surviving passive and even not have that low def. Even some other quite old weak def frame i still feel have more survival potential than Xaku right now.

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On 2020-09-10 at 7:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Tenno,

Keeping within the realm of the “community-created Warframe” project, Xaku will be receiving numerous changes based on your feedback! We have read countless paragraphs and posts, watched hundreds of minutes of YouTube feedback, and more! We tried to gravitate toward certain areas for Round 1 changes, which were highlighted most frequently or compellingly in your feedback. Adjustments may be made between now and when the changes go live!

Here is how we are changing Xaku’s Passive: 

  • Including AOE damage reduction as part of Xaku’s Passive. 
    • How it will work: AOE damage will simply take a 25% damage reduction (75% while The Vast Untime is active).
    • Currently, Xaku’s Passive reduces incoming weapon damage. Which includes projectile, hitscan, and melee attacks, but does not include any protection from enemy AOE damage. For example, if an enemy shot a rocket at Xaku, the projectile itself would have a 25% chance to pass through them and deal no damage (75% with The Vast Untime), but the explosion following would have the full effect. With this change, Xaku’s Passive grants them 25% damage reduction on the following AOE explosion from that rocket. That’s increased to 75% when Xaku is running around bare bones!

Here is how we are changing Xata’s Whisper:
 

  • We are making Void damage ‘True Neutral’ by removing the 50% resistance of Void damage on Cloned Flesh and Fossilized enemies - a long desired request for Void damage.
    • Currently, Void damage is relatively ineffective against Cloned Flesh and Fossilized enemies which greatly limits the use of Xata’s Whisper on Grineer and Infested enemies. In an effort to give it (and Void damage in general) more utility across enemy categories, we are removing this resistance so that it aligns with its neutral effectiveness against the other enemy types. It is important to note that Eidolons, Amalgams, and certain bosses will still maintain this resistance.

Here is how we are changing Grasp of Lohk:

  • Increasing the speed at which enemies are disarmed so that it occurs earlier in the casting animation. Also increasing the casting animation speed overall. 
    • Currently, the point of when enemies are disarmed once Grasp of Lohk is cast is far too delayed. 
  • Allowing Grasp of Lohk to be recast. 
    • How it will work: Any existing Grasp of Lohk weapons will simply be replaced by the new cast up to the maximum amount of targets.
    • Currently, once Grasp of Lohk is cast you are locked with the weapons that were grabbed until the end of the ability’s duration. This is obviously limiting if the ability was cast with undesired effect. To counteract this limitation, we are adding the option to recast. With the added benefit of resetting the ability’s duration and disarming a new set of enemies where/when desired. 


Here is how we are changing The Lost: Deny

  • Adding synergy between Deny and Grasp of Lohk that increases Deny’s damage output.
    • How it will work: The number of weapons orbiting Xaku from Grasp of Lohk act as a damage multiplier for Deny’s Void beam. For example: If you have 4 weapons orbiting Xaku, Deny’s damage will be granted a 5x multiplier. 
  • Increasing the casting speed of Deny. 
    • More firepower… faster!
       

Here is why we are not changing Accuse or Gaze yet.
 
A couple of posts, notably those written by people with verified 6 Forma installations, have realized just how powerful Gaze can be in certain mission types. So we are leaving Gaze untouched for now so we can continue to evaluate it within the realm of those who have invested Forma and time into Xaku to hit this sweet power spot.

Accuse is also untouched for this round, but first thing on our list for next round would be allowing Accuse to be re-cast, but we are awaiting that decision based on how this Round goes.
 

Here is how we are changing The Vast Untime:

  • Removing the Energy drain and keeping it a duration based ability. 
    • Currently, the Energy drain on top of its casting cost and duration is far too restrictive and punishing. 
  • Adding Synergy between The Vast Untime and all of Xaku’s other abilities. 
    • How it will work: Emphasis on “Untime”, when Xaku is in their skeletal form their other active abilities’ duration will become frozen in time. Once The Vast Untime expires, the duration of those active abilities resume. This was suggested in our feedback readings and we quite enjoyed the play on the ‘untime’ theme and the added benefit to Xaku overall! We feel that since this no longer has an Energy drain, and that it halts the timer on other abilities, the energy demands of Xaku’s kit will be significantly lessened. 
      • Note: This will not apply to Helminth abilities and abilities from other Warframes from Helminth subsuming. 
         

When?

We plan on releasing all of these changes on PC next week, and Console shortly after. 

Thank you, Tenno! May Xata Whisper good tidings to you all! 

Pls release these changes as soon as you just possibly can <3 I want to play this frame but right now they're just frustrating to use but I really really want to like them :( Their theme is awesome but rn it is the only good thing about this frame.

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Idea for Grasp of Lohk:

The duration for Grasp of Lohk can't be reset, but there is no limit in the number of targets/number of weapons. Additional casts of this ability will add to the current number of weapons. Maybe also a nerf in base duration (because you can freeze the duration with 4) and a buff in weapon range and it could be a really fun ability in my opinion.

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The changes seems to be in the right direction. Althought xaku  suffers from his own abilities requirements. To change evade with dmg reduction should be the only option from the start. Evade is simple useless. Lohk has very low range and duration, even with the recast option idk why to someone invest on it. Gaze needs more basic range and u need 200% strength  to take that 100% armor reduction. His ultimate requires a lot of energy and i hope with the new changes the duration of it will not be low (that will make lohk kinda playable, with that time freeze thing). The basic stats of second and third ability are low and requires a good ammount of strenght, duration and range to make them worth, which is impossible to achieve.  Even with these changes i cannot see how that could be  fixed. Maybe simple buffing the basic range/ duration  of those two abilities would be the answer. 

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Here's Xaku's 2 biggest problems right now: 

They are EXTREMELY energy hungry. These new changes seems to be really good tweaks to change on this both with duration increase with the ult and with the removal of the energy drain.

The second problem is probably going to be the biggest issue after these changes, which is their survivability. I know not every frame needs to be super tanky or anything, but if they have something that can increase their surviving capabilities then pls for the love of god don't make it RNG based. Both Xaku's passive and Ult's evasion buff work unreliably in lots of situations in warframe and it demands us to either use something to boost this stat up, for example with the carnis mod set, which somehow doesn't really work the way it should work because with + 30% evasion with the ult's 75% doesn't seem to acknowlede the law of that one simple mathematical equation that demands this two number to get added so it should be 105%. But I tested it multiple times both in simula and in missions and it just doesn't work that way. The two seem to work independently from each other, but even if it could boost Xaku's evasion it wouldn't last really long because 6 seconds for a heavy attack that surely needs to kill its target is not really rewarding and it makes the carnis set also unreliable.
So we end up with a slow that only slows enemies that got caught in the blast radius, with an evasion that either decides to work or not based on RNG and with an also unreliable void dmg vulnerability debuff that also only applies to enemies caught in the blast radius. 

Oh and also please buff the shooting range of their second ability, the gun needs to be like 0.0000000000000001 centimeters close to an enemy to make them actually shoot something.

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Xaku's survivability depending of evasion stat is clearly something that a lot of people find useless and too dangerous.
But the only suggestion to replace that, is pure damage resistance..
I think both are wrong ideas for Xaku.
The evasion stat, is not 100% logic with the theme.
Baruuk can "ignore matter", Nyx perturbs enemy mind..
But projectiles go through Xaku without hitting them...
Seems highly improbable and unrealistic to me, and in the context of Warframe, it is quite something.
I think Xaku needs a better way to survive, one that is really customed to them.

Here are some improvised ideas:
1) Xata's whisper could give a temporary damage reduction, linked to the void damage we are doing during it's time.
2) Vast untime, could generate an aura of slow time.
Projectiles would be slowed at a safe distance, and enemies would be slowed at very short distance.
3) The passive could be entirely changed to something similar to Inaros.
Xaku would be broken on the floor, capable of regenerate themself by absorbing enemies we'll pull to us like Hydroid in his puddle.
The operator could exit Xaku to kill enemies near them, and the corpses would be immediately used for Xaku. (Only one chance for the operator)

1) Seems too simple, 2) could feel like an obligation to always be in skeleton form, and 3) would require new work in animations and effects.. but it's my favorite ^^
And the three aren't simple tweaks.. It's the community warframe, power and passive have already been voted on.. I know..
But really I just feel sad Xaku has only "evasion" to survive.
Evasion, and "kill before the enemy sees you".

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On 2020-09-10 at 7:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Including AOE damage reduction as part of Xaku’s Passive. 

Ok. That's nice but we need more or something else. 

Quote
  Cumulative probability 1 - ( ( 1 - x ) ^ y )
  Hit chance (0.0 < x < 1.0): 0,25
     
enemy number probability of enemy hits you  
1 0,25  
2 0,4375  
3 0,578125  
4 0,68359375  
5 0,7626953125  
6 0,8220214844  
7 0,8665161133  
8 0,899887085  
9 0,9249153137  
10 0,9436864853  
11 0,957764864  
12 0,968323648  
13 0,976242736  
14 0,982182052  
15 0,986636539  
16 0,9899774042  
17 0,9924830532  
18 0,9943622899  
19 0,9957717174  
20 0,9968287881  

So after 9 enemies that tries to hits you at least will succeed with 90% chance. With strong enemies and 10+ enemies (which is not unusual) someone will kill you.

On 2020-09-10 at 7:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

We are making Void damage ‘True Neutral’ by removing the 50% resistance of Void damage on Cloned Flesh and Fossilized enemies

Well, buff is nice.... some people need it (I like to stay "neutral").

Still chance is based on weapon (somehow bad) and not visible bubble because it doesn't take energy color (super annoying).

 

On 2020-09-10 at 7:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Allowing Grasp of Lohk to be recast. 

On 2020-09-10 at 7:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:
  • Increasing the speed at which enemies are disarmed so that it occurs earlier in the casting animation. Also increasing the casting animation speed overall. 

This will make disarming much easier. If the speed is very fast then you don't "need" big range. Go to group of enemies, steal guns, repeat.

On 2020-09-10 at 7:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:
  • How it will work: Any existing Grasp of Lohk weapons will simply be replaced by the new cast up to the maximum amount of targets.

If this is gonna replace more with less weapons (for example, you have 5 weapons, you activate the ability, you now have 2) then it will make the ability slower.

To make the usage of it fast make it at least 2 things:
- always steal weapons (disarming when applicable)
- always reset the duration of the ability
- Grasp of Lohk weapons should be replaced only if they are fewer than the weapons that are currently stolen (so you cannot replace 5 weapons with 4)
 

On 2020-09-10 at 7:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Increasing the casting speed of Deny. 

Good.

On 2020-09-10 at 7:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Adding synergy between Deny and Grasp of Lohk that increases Deny’s damage output.

  • How it will work: The number of weapons orbiting Xaku from Grasp of Lohk act as a damage multiplier for Deny’s Void beam. For example: If you have 4 weapons orbiting Xaku, Deny’s damage will be granted a 5x multiplier. 

Well... that's expected. People want more damage and just kill things. I'm not one of those people. Sadly no "enemy suspended in the air" thing.

On 2020-09-10 at 7:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Removing the Energy drain and keeping it a duration based ability. 

That's ok however we still:
- cannot see affected enemies
- need to be recast because you want more enemies to be affected and you don't even see them
- I don't see any change in their speed at base

 

On 2020-09-10 at 7:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Adding Synergy between The Vast Untime and all of Xaku’s other abilities. 

  • How it will work: Emphasis on “Untime”, when Xaku is in their skeletal form their other active abilities’ duration will become frozen in time. Once The Vast Untime expires, the duration of those active abilities resume.

I think someone posted it in the Protea thread. She would get more benefits from this, in my opinion.
Not sure if this "frozen in time" is needed.
- ability 1 -> high duration & low cost makes it easily recastable
- ability 2 -> might use it while moving from different group of enemies; otherwise, in my opinion, the ability wants you to recast it to disarm enemies. It doesn't need duration but low energy cost & high cast speed.
- ability 3 -> only Gaze would benefit from it; Deny doesn't need duration; Accuse might need it... but you kill enemies faster than your timer, hence not needed.
 

On 2020-09-10 at 7:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:
  • Note: This will not apply to Helminth abilities and abilities from other Warframes from Helminth subsuming. 

That's sad. When I read that I thought about endlessly use Revenant's Reave. I could have so much fun.

On 2020-09-10 at 7:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Here is how we are changing The Vast Untime:

Still no movement speed boost & higher starting slow effect (25% is not visible, let's at least start at 50%). After it deals some damage we don't see any change.
We can have duration on what? Enemies might be already death. Aura around player would be nice.

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On 2020-09-11 at 4:02 AM, ABlindGuyPlays said:

Then they shouldn't have amde the VOID DAMAGE GRANTING ABILITY the thing it gives to helmenth. If they aren't going to give the VOID DAMAGE ability the ability to deal with eidolon shields, or amalgams, etc? Why have it be void damage? Pull a revenant and have it be adaptive damage. There you go PROBLEM SOLVED THANK YOU DE PAY ME.

Well, it’s still “supposed” to be balanced. It seems they gave Xata’s Whisper to Helminth because they have the interest to make Xaku be the “Warframe that gives it’s Void gift to others”. That’s why the percentage of the Void damage boost is smaller than others. Because they know that people won’t use Xaku (that much) against Eidolons, they will face Eidolons with a Prime Chroma holding a Prime Rubico (both 6-forma’d), filled to the brink with Maxed Primed Mods and a Vex Armor capable of raising damage to the millions.

They are (doing their best and sometimes failing about) thinking on the long run and the big picture about players trying desperately to break one of the last things in the game that are truly hard (and unique, that’s important, as you all remember Steel’s Path): Eidolons. However, since it is in our interest to make Xaku have power, and theirs is to make Xaku have power within reason, we will invariably butt heads. I do still think they should make Void damage affect Eidolons and Amalgams, since players probably spent years being told about Void damage being the weakness of Sentient enemies only to be nope’d right at their faces. If they think that will be too strong against them, then half the percentage dealt against Eidolons and Amalgams, from 26%, to 13% of Xata’s Whisper, while keeping Operator’s Amp’s be the main players on damage dealing against Eidolons.

Of course, unfortunately, Amps… do leave something to be desired somewhat. Even the ones made by Onkko Quill have not a particularly steady performance. (Making Onkko sell daily specials would help against the problem a bit) I think they should implement some unique list of mods for Amps, since the Arcane Enhancements on Amps seem to be focused on supporting and complementing the survival ability of Operators, instead of bettering the damage, fire rate, percentage of void damage, percentage of status effect and more strategic stats. Alas, we are talking about Xaku.

I do still think Evasion, much like the Void proc ailment, should have something added to it by the developers to make it distinguishable (and its own flavor of useful), instead of just being erased in favor of Damage Reduction. Like in a previous post of mine, making each evaded attack add up to a buff in shape of a timer that has it’s seconds “consumed” (say, 7 to 10) when you get hit by lethal (and capping the maximum duration of that timer to 30 secs or so) damage would make people value it’s “soft” guarantee of invulnerability in favour of the invariable slowing down of your demise by Damage Reduction. The developers do seem to want to keep evasion as a live factor within the game, and I don’t see a problem with that, but they have to give Evasion some differential if they want to make players see it with good (or tolerable) eyes.

Whatever they do to the Void proc ailment, it probably is recommended to take into consideration that it should help the viability of the Operator mode. A unique proc where it could grant energy regeneration per hit (sans eidolons) against the player (at the rate of 1 energy per level of proc, up to 10 energy per hit against the player) would make the element very appealing to players, and make them like the element since it gives an universal boon that is very rare and very precious. But they can see my suggestions in my previous posts if they wish.

In a last note, I am also on the bandwagon of making Grasp of Lohk range bigger, after some testing did reveal it to be somewhat short against dealing with opponents. After all, armed enemies in general run away from you to shoot you, so you tend to get less weapons in a pinch.

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