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1 hour ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Here is how we are changing Grasp of Lohk:

  • Increasing the speed at which enemies are disarmed so that it occurs earlier in the casting animation. Also increasing the casting animation speed overall. 
    • Currently, the point of when enemies are disarmed once Grasp of Lohk is cast is far too delayed. 
  • Allowing Grasp of Lohk to be recast. 
    • How it will work: Any existing Grasp of Lohk weapons will simply be replaced by the new cast up to the maximum amount of targets.
    • Currently, once Grasp of Lohk is cast you are locked with the weapons that were grabbed until the end of the ability’s duration. This is obviously limiting if the ability was cast with undesired effect. To counteract this limitation, we are adding the option to recast. With the added benefit of resetting the ability’s duration and disarming a new set of enemies where/when desired. 

Would you consider making Grasp of Lohk weapons do not target Gaze'd enemies?

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These changes are nice and all, but it still does nothing to address the fact that in order for Xaku to be usable, it needs ALL of his stats to be very high.

he either needs a range buff to all of his abilities, or a duration buff to all of his abilities. The untime buff is really cool that it pauses all of his power duration, but that doesnt mean we can all of a sudden start modding for a lower duration because then we have to start casting his ult way more often, which just puts us in the same situation as before.

Iv put a ton of forma on my Xaku as well, but I HAD to put 5 forma on him just for him to feel usable, when it should be that if you put 5 forma into a frame that it feels very powerful.

Also Xata's whisper not effecting his grasp of lohk is just dumb, and needs to effect it.

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These look promising, but Xata's Whisper still looks too weak. A 26% dmg buff is basically a free Helminth slot. Smite Infusion gets 100%, why not the same for Xata's Whisper. I don't see how this could be an issue when we can't use it on Eidolons.

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Good changes for the most part, i will say tho that untimes dodge chance is simply too low to be effective however. Xaku suffers greatly in build diversity due to a extreme need to build for defense. Allowing untimes dodge chance to scale with str, capping at 100% dodge and 90% damage reduction for aoes would be ideal.

I also think a tiny bump in range on her 2 is something that can be done. Both steal and targeting ranges could start at 12m.

 

 

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1 hour ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Here is how we are changing Xaku’s Passive: 

  • Including AOE damage reduction as part of Xaku’s Passive. 
    • How it will work: Instead of a 25% chance for incoming damage to pass through Xaku entirely, AOE damage will simply take a 25% damage reduction (75% while The Vast Untime is active).
    • Currently, Xaku’s Passive reduces incoming weapon damage. Which includes projectile, hitscan, and melee attacks, but does not include any protection from enemy AOE damage. For example, if an enemy shot a rocket at Xaku, the projectile itself would have a 25% chance to pass through them and deal no damage (75% with The Vast Untime), but the explosion following would have the full effect. With this change, Xaku’s Passive grants them 25% damage reduction on the following AOE explosion from that rocket. That’s increased to 75% when Xaku is running around bare bones!

I feel like this misses the point, but is a step in the right direction. Overall, passives need a reevaluation for a lot of frames, as they're sometimes too random to use reliably (like this), or do not meaningfully affect gameplay (Loki's wall grab time). Part of me would rather this be every fourth attack just passes through entirely. I also wish we actually had a way to differentiate the way evasion even works in comparison to accuracy debuffs and the like.

1 hour ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Here is how we are changing Xata’s Whisper:
 

  • We are making Void damage ‘True Neutral’ by removing the 50% resistance of Void damage on Cloned Flesh and Fossilized enemies - a long desired request for Void damage.
    • Currently, Void damage is relatively ineffective against Cloned Flesh and Fossilized enemies which greatly limits the use of Xata’s Whisper on Grineer and Infested enemies. In an effort to give it (and Void damage in general) more utility across enemy categories, we are removing this resistance so that it aligns with its neutral effectiveness against the other enemy types. It is important to note that Eidolons, Amalgams, and certain bosses will still maintain this resistance.

...Yeah I'm okay with this. I still think the status itself could stand a second pass, or even just have it center on heads. In fact, if bullet attractor targeted heads, this would be a very coveted ability indeed.

1 hour ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Here is how we are changing Grasp of Lohk:

  • Increasing the speed at which enemies are disarmed so that it occurs earlier in the casting animation. Also increasing the casting animation speed overall. 
    • Currently, the point of when enemies are disarmed once Grasp of Lohk is cast is far too delayed. 
  • Allowing Grasp of Lohk to be recast. 
    • How it will work: Any existing Grasp of Lohk weapons will simply be replaced by the new cast up to the maximum amount of targets.
    • Currently, once Grasp of Lohk is cast you are locked with the weapons that were grabbed until the end of the ability’s duration. This is obviously limiting if the ability was cast with undesired effect. To counteract this limitation, we are adding the option to recast. With the added benefit of resetting the ability’s duration and disarming a new set of enemies where/when desired. 


Here is how we are changing The Lost: Deny

  • Adding synergy between Deny and Grasp of Lohk that increases Deny’s damage output.
    • How it will work: The number of weapons orbiting Xaku from Grasp of Lohk act as a damage multiplier for Deny’s Void beam. For example: If you have 4 weapons orbiting Xaku, Deny’s damage will be granted a 5x multiplier. 
  • Increasing the casting speed of Deny. 
    • More firepower… faster!

Grouped for synergy! I'm okay with the GoL changes, but rather than wiping your progress with it, I really would prefer it have a Blaze Artillery like timer, and I still insist that the number of guns grabbed should be based on Strength rather than range. 

Deny is getting a meaningful change with this, but why not incorporate the VFX of GoL into it? Have the guns group together around the casting point so you have a really badass Death Star laser, and with more guns, have the beam widen? ...Oh man that would be awesome. Nothing too crazy, max the beam size to Sol Gate's width.

1 hour ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Here is why we are not changing Accuse or Gaze yet.
 
A couple of posts, notably those written by people with verified 6 Forma installations, have realized just how powerful Gaze can be in certain mission types. So we are leaving Gaze untouched for now so we can continue to evaluate it within the realm of those who have invested Forma and time into Xaku to hit this sweet power spot.

Accuse is also untouched for this round, but first thing on our list for next round would be allowing Accuse to be re-cast, but we are awaiting that decision based on how this Round goes.

Yes, Gaze is strong. But it also does the same job as Seeking Shuriken and Psychic Bolt, just with an area effect and less permanently for almost triple the mod space cost. The problem isn't that defense removal is so good, the problem is that doing so is too hard. I shouldn't have to forma Xaku six times to get the ability to a good point. I understand being hesitant to give a frame a 30m x2 diameter defense strip. As far as I can tell, overlapping the Gaze effects doesn't stack. ...Why not? That would considerable reduce the amount of mod space required to get the desired effect, AND provide an incentive to actually overlap your casts. Or, perhaps, make power strength also increase the number of active casts of this you can have?

Accuse is baffling. I legitimately have no idea when this power is useful other than forcing the end of a defense round. Enemy damage is so low against other enemies that I don't know what strategy players have been using to make this good. Perhaps it's not the damage though. I would say that making this recastable should be in this pass too. I have no idea why that's being "considered."

Overall, though, "The Lost" is a horribly designed ability, because none of the modes actually relate to each other. However, they do relate to other abilities. An easy way to alleviate this (maybe not fix) is to simply put Deny as a "hold cast" on Grasp of Lohk. While it's active, you channel the guns together into Deny's beam. That frees up Accuse and Gaze to be tap/hold on the third slot, but even that has the problem of two very unrelated abilities occupying one slot. This is a weird situation, because I can't think of any other Warframe who even remotely has this much micromanagement on one ability slot.

1 hour ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Here is how we are changing The Vast Untime:

  • Removing the Energy drain and keeping it a duration based ability. 
    • Currently, the Energy drain on top of its casting cost and duration is far too restrictive and punishing. 
  • Adding Synergy between The Vast Untime and all of Xaku’s other abilities. 
    • How it will work: Emphasis on “Untime”, when Xaku is in their skeletal form their other active abilities’ duration will become frozen in time. Once The Vast Untime expires, the duration of those active abilities resume. This was suggested in our feedback readings and we quite enjoyed the play on the ‘untime’ theme and the added benefit to Xaku overall! We feel that since this no longer has an Energy drain, and that it halts the timer on other abilities, the energy demands of Xaku’s kit will be significantly lessened. 
      • Note: This will not apply to Helminth abilities and abilities from other Warframes from Helminth subsuming. 

I still like the idea of making the Void damage weakness debuff be an aura caused by Xaku's external parts swirling in a debris field around them. However, the new effect is actually kind of cool, and I can see it'll have some meaningful changes.

 

Overall, I think this is a step in the right direction, but it's only one step in a path. Xaku is by far the worst frame in the game live right now. These changes will definitely put a dent in the problems they have, but until The Lost is made far less user-unfriendly (downright user-spiteful), this is just a lot of micromanagement in one package. I'm excited to test these changes, though. Thanks for updating us.

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Regarding the changes to The Vast Untime: I would prefer that ability to be channeled and toggled on / off, rather than having a duration. I want to be able to go into and out of skelly mode on demand, and stay in it as long as I have energy to do so.

In support of that change, I also suggest that the void damage vulnerability which The Vast Untime causes should be an aura around Xaku while he’s in skelly mode, rather than a debuff applied to enemies when he goes into skelly mode.

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6 minutes ago, (PS4)digitalgabeg said:

Void damage should always be effective against Eidolon shields, regardless of the source, no exceptions. If DE didn’t want to break the balance of the Eidolon and Ropalolyst fights, they should not have given Xaku Void damage. They should either roll back the change which prevents Xaku from damaging Eidolon shields, or change Xaku to no longer deal void damage.

Wait they are still high on the smell of their own gas there? then why bother calling it void damage? They break how things work specifically to put an exception in because that breaks the void shield the eidolon has.

 

Give the eidolon something else then, but to go oh hey void damage doesn't work on the things it is explicitly designed to? Is sheer stupidity.

 

Or are you going to again cry that we are giving feedback in bad faith?

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58 minutes ago, [DE]Danielle said:

We are making Void damage ‘True Neutral’ by removing the 50% resistance of Void damage on Cloned Flesh and Fossilized enemies - a long desired request for Void damage.

  • Currently, Void damage is relatively ineffective against Cloned Flesh and Fossilized enemies which greatly limits the use of Xata’s Whisper on Grineer and Infested enemies. In an effort to give it (and Void damage in general) more utility across enemy categories, we are removing this resistance so that it aligns with its neutral effectiveness against the other enemy types.

    --Good change. However Xata's Whisper will always decrease your DPS despite being a damage buff. Why? Because Void procs will get in the way of the actual good procs on your weapons. Void status procs need to change, it's been a long time coming since the Second Dream. The base % increase on this ability is also ridiculously low. It's a self-buff that doesn't even have the same base numbers as Rhino Roar, which buffs the entire team.
    It is also strange how this ability doesn't at the very least buff up Xaku's Grasp of Lohk weapons.


    It is important to note that Eidolons, Amalgams, and certain bosses will still maintain this resistance.

    --No reason to maintain this, keep it neutral against everything.

Here is how we are changing Grasp of Lohk:

--Being limited by both targets and range at the same time is asinine, just like with The Vast Untime there should only be one limiter.
It would also be nice if the guns didn't target an enemy affected by Gaze anymore, as they're invulnerable at the time anyway.
As an aside, the base duration (and range honestly) of this ability is also very low. The Vast Untime will basically be mandatory as it will pause durations.


Here is how we are changing The Lost: Deny

  • Adding synergy between Deny and Grasp of Lohk that increases Deny’s damage output.
    • How it will work: The number of weapons orbiting Xaku from Grasp of Lohk act as a damage multiplier for Deny’s Void beam. For example: If you have 4 weapons orbiting Xaku, Deny’s damage will be granted a 5x multiplier. 

      --I still don't see this being used. Even using ideal conditions it will deal 120k damage, not including headshots, in a very small area.
      It has a similar problem to Vauban's Photon Strike, and if Gaze weren't so useful it'd be replaced. 

Here is why we are not changing Accuse or Gaze yet.
 
A couple of posts, notably those written by people with verified 6 Forma installations, have realized just how powerful Gaze can be in certain mission types. So we are leaving Gaze untouched for now so we can continue to evaluate it within the realm of those who have invested Forma and time into Xaku to hit this sweet power spot.

--I just want to clarify that it requires 200% strength to do so, so please take that into consideration when looking at the other abilities and how Xaku has to be built.

Accuse is also untouched for this round, but first thing on our list for next round would be allowing Accuse to be re-cast, but we are awaiting that decision based on how this Round goes.

--There is currently a host-client bug with this ability where sometimes the enemies become true-allies and are completely unkillable until the duration ends, just as a heads up. As for being able to recast this, I don't see why not personally.
 

Here is how we are changing The Vast Untime:

  • Removing the Energy drain and keeping it a duration based ability. 

Currently, the Energy drain on top of its casting cost and duration is far too restrictive and punishing. 

--Great change, hopefully one day someone remembers Mirage's Prism also has to deal with this.

  • Adding Synergy between The Vast Untime and all of Xaku’s other abilities. 

How it will work: Emphasis on “Untime”, when Xaku is in their skeletal form their other active abilities’ duration will become frozen in time. Once The Vast Untime expires, the duration of those active abilities resume. This was suggested in our feedback readings and we quite enjoyed the play on the ‘untime’ theme and the added benefit to Xaku overall! We feel that since this no longer has an Energy drain, and that it halts the timer on other abilities, the energy demands of Xaku’s kit will be significantly lessened. 

--Very interesting change, I approve. There are still some issues with the ability from my perspective though.
Only having the evasion percentage be 75% is a bit embarassing to have as a Warframe's ultimate. Plenty of Warframes can reach 75% and higher damage reduction without even needing their ultimate ability. Having consistent damage reduction is much more valuable than 75% evasion, just due to what kind of game this is. At minimum, the evasion percentage should be 90%, even if it has to scale to that point with power strength.

--The slow on this ability is in a good spot, the self-speed boost is unnoticeable, and the Void vulnerability The Vast Untime puts on enemies is also decent.
It would just be nice if say for example, Xaku's body parts continued to orbit as to keep up the Void vulnerability for all enemies in range instead of just the enemies hit by the ability initially.

Note: This will not apply to Helminth abilities and abilities from other Warframes from Helminth subsuming. 

--This is fine, I can already see this breaking many abilities. 

Since 6 forma on Xaku are mandatory to be listened to, I fortunately have enough on mine to give my thoughts.
If I don't address it here, that means I have no issue with said change. Will reply in bold italics.
As a Tl;Dr, this is a very nice step forward, but many issues still remain. Hopefully the next iteration doesn't take as long.

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Suggestion for Accuse: Make it spawn an actual fissure that keeps corrupting enemies within range for the duration of the ability, instead of only affecting a bunch on initial cast.

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The rework so far looks and sounds great, but I still have concerns, 3 of them:

 

1.  Void damage procs stop you from getting headshots.

Suggestion:  if a target has a head area hitbox, void damage guarantees headshots, instead of preventing them.  Why use their 1, or your operator, for void procs if it will somehow lower your damage output?

 

2.  Grasp's range

Pretty much I don't have to elaborate on that, I hope.

 

3.  Grasp's targeting

Grasp's tendency to fire only one projectile per target before switching targets.  I don't mind this with Protea with Punch Through on her 2, but without PT and without making it feel same-y, make it target a specific enemy by Hold To Target.  It's different enough from Venari or Wukong's Twin in my opinion.

Edited by (XB1)A Flawed Orange
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Interesting changes but in my opinion their 1 should affect their 2 for added synergy. And also Deny is still bad because it has no aoe and it does so low damage that i dont think a 5x multiplier will do anything. Also void damage still has a really bad proc so it needs to be changed.

Also just change that damn dodge chance to damage reduction, its awful.

 

Edited by Neon8296
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After a little bit of math this changes are definetly a step in the right direction.

 

A 200% power strength xaku will be able to strip all armor from a lvl130 heavy gunner and one-shot it with Deny + The Vast Untime + Grasp 6 enemies (4000*2*1.5*7= 84000 void damage, Corrupted Heavy gunner has 83K health at lvl 130) but Xaku's survival is still messy at most and their AoE damage potential is extremely lacking.

Edited by -Darkfall-
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I like all the changes. But the status effect of void damage needs attention.
I think the status effect of void damage is currently protecting the enemy from being hit in the head.
On the screenshots you can see that I am not able to extend the effect of the dual Toxocyst, which is activated from being hit in the head.
Since all shots are drawn to the center of the enemy.

20200910212536-1-test.jpg

Edited by Zrimers
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1 hour ago, (XB1)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Nice changes, but can we get an increase in the weapon's targeting range? Currently it's rather low at 8m.

Soooo true. The ability is cool and all, but if the weapons only target enemies that are practically at melee range I could just go and use my melee anyway.

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It would help a lot if Void's status effect got a more extensive rework. If you guys remember, it took reworking Heat's status effect to actually make Ember viable...I think a similar thing needs to happen here. 

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1 hour ago, D1videdByZer0 said:

I do wonder if void damage can be improved even further by giving it a certain proc.

 

Void damage is a very special damage type. Giving it a special effect could increase the utility of Operators as well... idk maybe it can work like slag damage in Borderlands 2. So every stack of void proc would increase damage taken by all other sources by 10% or something (and the status effect lingers for quite a while).

The Void is otherworldly, this proc reflects how different it is from the other status effect pretty well

I think that would be a good change, at better than this useless bullet attractor

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13 minutes ago, (XB1)A Flawed Orange said:

1.  Void damage procs stop you from getting headshots.

Suggestion:  if a target has a head area hitbox, void damage guarantees headshots, instead of preventing them.  Why use their 1, or your operator, for void procs if it will somehow lower your damage output?

The way void status are right now, I'd honestly prefer that Xata's Whisper had 0% status chance on our weapons. On some status builds the void procs actually get in the way of the status you actually want to proc when you hit an enemy. Pluys the stopping you from getting headshots issue.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Here is how we are changing Grasp of Lohk

Is there any intentions to give the stolen weapons firerate depending on strength etc? For now their firerate depends on how many stolen weapons there are.

Also, the range of those stolen weapons seems to be pretty short, meaning we have to get pretty near enemies for the stolen weapons to start shooting them. Can we have it based on range mods instead etc?

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