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2 hours ago, Kylo. said:

Meh. I don't think that will be enough to make Xaku viable.

i mean even now some players love him... and hes strong on high level missions... this changes will just make him better, do know that if there is a new warframe it doesnt mean 100% of people must play/like him .... it comes down to you as a person, i personaly love grendel while most people dont ...

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I'd like to see the Void status proc have some kind of damage benefit, such as perhaps 50% increased damage added to projectiles pulled in by the bullet attraction affect, but other than that these changes sound pretty solid overall. 75% damage reduction isn't in the gold standard of 90% and he lacks healing in his kit to make up for that, but being able to keep his 1, 2 and 3 effects up nearly 24/7 just by recasting his 4 on demand for the snare effect sounds really fun actually, especially with his energy cost on his 4 being fixed. I'm immediately excited by these changes. Accuse being re-cast might not be needed, but perhaps recast for the remaining duration to be added to new targets in case you get a 'bad' cast and only hit one enemy? Or maybe long-cast to UN-charm them?

Good work so far! Liking these ideas and I can't wait to play with them!

-a lowly 3-forma Xaku waiting on buffs before further investment.

Edited by RaethFennec
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Vast Untime needs to provide 75% GLOBAL dmg reduction, as of now it's stated as EVASION which is a totally different thing...

Or you can pump that EVASION at 90% and he can have his niche in that department, 90% chance of not getting hit with shield gate it's an ALTERNATIVE to frames damage reduction abilities..

The Base range on most of his abilities needs to be increased

You're leaving Gaze untouched but you could make the ability cast instant that'd be a great QoL

 

Edited by arm4geddon-117
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Feedback on the changes that didn't happen yet, yes, I can do that : D

  • Changes on passive:
    • Ok why not.
  • The changes of Xata's whisper:
    • Great. But it lacks the obvious synergy that there could be with the other powers of Xaku.
  • Grasp of Lohk changes:
    • Speed: super.
    • Recast: perfect. ^^
  • Changes to Lost: Deny:
    • Speed: good.
    • Multiplication of damage by Grasp of Lohk: unexpected and .. interesting.
      But I guess it's not going to be a multiplication of beams, so we're still gonna have so little chance of hitting what we want.
  • No immediate change to Accuse and Gaze:
    • Ok. These are indeed the powers that need the least change if Xaku's other powers are improved.
  • Vast Untime changes:
    • Seriously ?! Surprising and promising. Can't wait to test this. ° - °
       
  • What I was hoping for and which is not in these changes:
    • The lost, Accuse: Recast.  u.u
    • The lost: Hold more:
      • Hold Deny to shoot continuously.
      • Hold Accuse to overload Corrupted enemies, making them explosive upon death.
      • Hold Gaze to increase defense reduction to the cap, allowing you not to need 200% power to achieve this goal.
    • Gaze + Deny synergy:
      • Target affected by Gaze, hit by Deny, would split the beam and guide them to targets within Gaze's range.
        A synergy similar to Nezha, between his chakram and the targets impaled by his spears.
        This could help Deny to show his crowd control element.

Overall, pretty pleased of the changes of this "1st round", looking foward to test them :D

Edited by Azvalk
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2 часа назад, [DE]Danielle сказал:

Removing the Energy drain and keeping it a duration based ability. 

  • Currently, the Energy drain on top of its casting cost and duration is far too restrictive and punishing. 

Wow. It took you only two weeks to realize you did the very same mistake here you did with Protea's Blaze Artillery and change it the same way.

That being said, upcoming Untime buff/synergy looks promising. Hope to try it out soon.

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Void damage sucks. It has no real procc, it can't be modded for, and I would never use it except for eidolon shields, which is the main reason I don't do eidolons. If void damage can be brought up to par with other damages, and amps can actually do damage and not water down things down, void damage is a solid NO for me.

I mean, what happened to the second dream quest where a single blast kills a level 30 sentient?

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3 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Here is how we are changing The Vast Untime:

  • Removing the Energy drain and keeping it a duration based ability. 
  • Adding Synergy between The Vast Untime and all of Xaku’s other abilities. (freeze duration timers)

With this you might as well delete non-skeleton form of Xaku from the game. Everyone will be running ugly skeletons 24/7 as there is no reason not to keep it up all the time. Damage on cast is negligible, slow effect is nonexistent, Void vulnerability gives around 10%-20% damage increase, so only use for this ability is to give damage mitigation and freeze other abilities, meaning recast by cooldown duration. What was the point of designing cool looking frame if we are going to see it only at Liset?

I was expecting more creative solution to the Vast Untime problems.

ps: Sorry for being somewhat rude, but it is an ongoing problem with several frames and I hate to see one of the coolest frame designs destroyed.

pps: Don't get me wrong, I love Xaku becoming more viable, I just wish it wasn't ruining their look.

Edited by Erl-King
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I would personally love to see more synergies between abilities, like Nidus.

Make Gaze focused on Xaku so that Grasp of lohk always does full damage.

Make enemies effected by any of The lost abilites receive the void vuln when Xaku is in their Ult.

Make Xata's whisper directly buff Grasp.

I love when they encourage you to use all your abilities together, like Saryn and Nidus.

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45 minutes ago, Pandabarrel said:

These look promising, but Xata's Whisper still looks too weak. A 26% dmg buff is basically a free Helminth slot. Smite Infusion gets 100%, why not the same for Xata's Whisper. I don't see how this could be an issue when we can't use it on Eidolons.

Because Smite Infusion is an augment so the cost is higher, I imagine.

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3 minutes ago, Erl-King said:

With this you might as well delete non-skeleton form of Xaku from the game. Everyone will be running ugly skeletons 24/7 as there is no reason not to keep it up all the time. Damage on cast is negligible, slow effect is nonexistent, Void vulnerability gives around 10%-20% damage increase. What was the point of designing cool looking frame if we are going to see it only at Liset?

This just in from Equinox's dual form:

Remember GIF by Farmer Wants A Wife

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2 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:
  • Allowing Grasp of Lohk to be recast. 

this is good

 

Quote
  • How it will work: Any existing Grasp of Lohk weapons will simply be replaced by the new cast up to the maximum amount of targets.

this is less good.  Playing Xaku outside of the simulacrum I could never get close to the cap on grasp, I got 3 or 4 at most.  I'd much rather see this be additive than just rerolling to try and get a bigger number.  Obviously if this was the entire change it could be degenerate as you just keep stealing the same enemy/collection of enemies' and get void orbs until you're full, but with some kind of "been stolen from" marker status I'd prefer it as a buildable effect than the crapshoot it feels like currently.  more pulls on the slot machine doesn't make it feel less like a slot machine.

also increase it's effective range, the targeting distance on the stolen guns is abysmal. what's the point of reducing enemies to melee if you have to practically be in melee to shoot them?

Quote

* Adding synergy between Deny and Grasp of Lohk that increases Deny’s damage output.

I'm gonna withhold judgement until we see how this works out, but I would've much preferred for the beam to last longer, potentially letting you sweep it over a crowd and use it as CC.  The straight line for a second that it currently gives is just impractical for the lift effect to matter.  the damage was so negligible I don't know how much I care about a multiplier.  I'd rather see something like that on grasp so it's actually worth focusing on, the scaling by enemy level alone is a joke.

The faster cast time is great though.  all of the lost felt a little too long since they're already hold-to-cast, but deny was easily the worst in that regard.

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1 hour ago, xZeromusx said:

Yo, this needs clarification. "Instead of" means "replacing", not "in addition to". Does this mean you're replacing Xaku's current passive? If so, that's not an improvement. We face AOE damage a lot less than we face projectiles. If you're replacing it, then we'd be taking the damage of that AOE projectile, but the AOE portion would be the only reduced part, meaning we would then take full damage on all projectiles too, not just AOE ones.

If what you meant was "in addition to", then great! But maybe a proof reader next time?

This is in addition to - this is not replacing Xaku's current passive. 

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2 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Currently, Void damage is relatively ineffective against Cloned Flesh and Fossilized enemies which greatly limits the use of Xata’s Whisper on Grineer and Infested enemies. In an effort to give it (and Void damage in general) more utility across enemy categories, we are removing this resistance so that it aligns with its neutral effectiveness against the other enemy types. It is important to note that Eidolons, Amalgams, and certain bosses will still maintain this resistance.

What do you mean? These sentient enemies have robotic health, which is already neutral to void damage.

2 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

How it will work: Emphasis on “Untime”, when Xaku is in their skeletal form their other active abilities’ duration will become frozen in time. Once The Vast Untime expires, the duration of those active abilities resume. This was suggested in our feedback readings and we quite enjoyed the play on the ‘untime’ theme and the added benefit to Xaku overall! We feel that since this no longer has an Energy drain, and that it halts the timer on other abilities, the energy demands of Xaku’s kit will be significantly lessened. 

  • Note: This will not apply to Helminth abilities and abilities from other Warframes from Helminth subsuming. 

 

I think this will the first time I put a fully maxed Blind Rage into a warframe. 

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Since current void procs don't increase damage and instead redirect potential headshots into bodyshots, why not change it? My suggestion is to make it more like Scourge's effect, which makes the bubble around the enemies' head. This allows easier headshots, and therefore buff damage.

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These Xaku changes are promising. But deny needs a faster cast time. That's it. Most of us acknowledged its a strong skill. That's not the issue. The issue is that it can't be cast at all around nuke frames.

Accuse needs to be recastable and the weapons pulled by lohk need to attack mind controlled enemies (perhaps for bonus damage)

Whisper needs to synergies with Lohk.

The buffs for Deny are interesting but still not sure if it's worth using much if at all. Because I have weapons for narrow fire. I use warframe abilities for aoes. Why would I waste time shooting a very small laser? It's not even as wide as a grinder and range afaik only increases it's distance not it's width. I still think making it a cone effect would make it considerably better even if the range is reduced a little bit and allow range to increase width AND length. That being said maybe it is super good with these buffs. Still with the exception of "elites" eximus, nox, etc I can't see it being too useful out of steel path with such a narrow range. Honestly even making it as wide as Nidus 1 key would be an improvement if you don't wanna make it into a cone. I literally never used Deny or very, very rarely. (usually on accident). And now I might use it in niche situations with a very strong enemy.

I haven't forma'd my Xaku 6+ times because I found a decent build that works without doing that. If a build needs 6 forma's to be optimal than Xaku isn't balanced properly. But Xaku came out what 2 or so weeks ago? They're already my third most played frame. According to steam I have 2.2k hours on WF. So... I've played Xaku A LOT. Now if you were tracking based on play time instead of forma I'll be on a shortlist of players who play Xaku A LOT. I want to main Xaku. Was gonna main Xaku even in this flawed state. Cuz a player could easily forma 10 times (which is just spamming hydron) and have less play time than me but if you're only tracking forma it looks like they play more than me which is flawed. I'll likely forma them some more but seriously every Xaku player knows that gaze is strong. But the problem is the inability to actually use the ability bellow steel path if even one nuke frame is in your party. And that's even with cast time mods. 

Void not being weak against cloned flesh is good I like it. But void's proc feels like a placeholder that never got replaced. It's literally just one of mag's abilities isn't it? What does magnets have to do with the void? It's one of if not the worst status effect in the game. I understanding reworking a status effect might take more time but please consider something that's anything but that. Think to the lore. What is void, what does it do? I feel like a better proc for void could be that it takes away any/all damage resistances the enemy has. Kind of like how with sentient it resets their adaptability. So the status would read something like this: "Void touched: cloned flesh no longer grants resistances to impact and gas" This would debuff them for allies and your weapons which won't be doing exclusively void damage. 

Still got half of what I wanted and another round inc. So this is all very promising. The "untime" change to lock duration isn't even a thought I had but wholly welcome. 

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2 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

We are making Void damage ‘True Neutral’ by removing the 50% resistance of Void damage on Cloned Flesh and Fossilized enemies - a long desired request for Void damage.

  • Currently, Void damage is relatively ineffective against Cloned Flesh and Fossilized enemies which greatly limits the use of Xata’s Whisper on Grineer and Infested enemies. In an effort to give it (and Void damage in general) more utility across enemy categories, we are removing this resistance so that it aligns with its neutral effectiveness against the other enemy types. It is important to note that Eidolons, Amalgams, and certain bosses will still maintain this resistance.

 

By "neutral" you mean "equally useless against everything"? Not much changes in this regard. Void is bad damage type with eidolon shields being its only niche. But it doesn't not work with Xaku. It doesn't stip defenses, it doesn't bypass defenses, it doesn't multiply your damage, it doesn't have bonuses against status-immune enemies. It is bad damage type and having dysfunctional (no use agains Eidolon) void damage on all abilities hurts Xaku's whole kit.

If you're so afraid of spicing up stale Eidolon meta (which is silly because people already take down Eidolon shields in seconds) then replace all Xaku's void damage with combined elemental damage depending on which ability is selected in The Lost. Fits the frankenframe theme better, has some use, adds lots of versatility and loadout variety.

And then add augment that gives Xata’s Whisper TRUE (anti-Eidolon) void damage.

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Xaku main here: 
Xaku its already a strong warframe, they are a new kind of support/debuffer/setup/dps frame and some mechanics need tweaks which already receiving w this update, quality of life buffs without making him overpowered.

Passive: Even tho xaku has weird stats (like a broken frame - lore) this makes sense forcing you to play around 4th to avoid getting nuked in high level.

1. Xata's Whisper: Void damage its already weaker than all other elements (full strenght 89% damage bonus against 337% damage bonus from ember/frost/volt) - its a update but void damage as an element needs tweaks 

2. Grasp of Lohk: their 2 animation its slow, some guns act like dont know where to shoot and usually needs a miracle cast to get the most benefit from it, this buff would create more situations where xaku can help w dps and not weakened by his own ability leaving an awkward 1-2 guns with 18s duration til next cast - btw this ability its already strong! - if post buffs xaku feels weird i recommend casting 1 would give % damage bonus to his guns.

3.

  • Deny - finally a faster animation, makes them a machine gun and not "gonna prepare a set up/hope no one notices me while shooting my laser". i would love Deny can be casted mid - air or jumping like an actual laser but nvm 
  • Gaze: its OK, doesnt need changes its an aoe debuff that how supposed to be and work as intended.
  • Accuse: im satisfied w it ... maybe a cooldown reduction in how many enemies are affected by it? More enemies affected= no reduction / only 1 enemy affected = 90% reduction OR enemies affected are weaker to void damage

4. Vast Untime: Now we talking ... their 4 never gave me a reason to cast but now im interested in this (even tho his broken form its ugly af guess its "lore" im waiting for a tennogen/deluxe skin *wink wink*) The changes are good and i like them ... cant wait to hit live 

Edited by Nzx.Zaahir
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Waiting for the next round before I'll bother dumping any forma into it.

Verified 6 forma builds huh? Ya'll at DE make it sound like you don't know that's the baseline for testing a new frame or something.

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vor 3 Stunden schrieb D1videdByZer0:

I do wonder if void damage can be improved even further by giving it a certain proc.

 

Void damage is a very special damage type. Giving it a special effect could increase the utility of Operators as well... idk maybe it can work like slag damage in Borderlands 2. So every stack of void proc would increase damage taken by all other sources by 10% or something (and the status effect lingers for quite a while).

Well while that is interesting we already have that ^^ Viral does exactly that which is why its so insanely busted 

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Really loving the changes, but I feel like Deny still has a lot of issues. At the end of the day, it's still a single target damage ability (with a bit of punchthrough) that gets outclassed by simply shooting your gun. DE has been moving away from single-target damage abilities for a good reason: it's just not effective. I would love it if enemies lifted by Deny explode when killed or have some sort of AOE debuff effect that makes it more than just a bad gun that costs energy.

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