Please Make Iron Skin Duration Based

[vaarnaaarne]

On 2020-09-11 at 7:27 AM, YUNoJump said:

Side note, Roar on other frames is hardly the end of Rhino considering the damage boost on other frames is much lower.

Stomp also remains a great CC power. Rhino's only got one power that isn't at minimum good, but as mentioned in thread with an augment you can take it places with Ironclad Charge. That's a pretty good spot to be in when it comes to frames and number of not-deadweight powers.

 

1 hour ago, selig_fay said:

Speaking of which, if you think iron skin is bad, just look at this thing.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Rumbled

A few fun things about this topic.

Were it named 'Rustled', it would be more descriptive since you could press 4 to instantly get your jimmies rustled on demand.

[-ODIN-SwoleChef]

12 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Well then in that case I'm going back to my Original Statement about Iron Skin being too Dependent on too many Factors...

 

not every build can be "1 mod and be immortal dps", one of warframes driving points is variety with customization, with the exception of the arcanes, everything i mentioned is easily obtainable and isnt even required, build rhino how you want, but dont say its bad or heavily dependant if you dont wanna put the time into it. if anything, its one of the easiest, least factor inclusive frames to build, not as bad as inaros, but not as over-complicated as something like octavia, if that makes any sense, im kinda hungover at the moment.

[Lutesque]

6 hours ago, hugeblackdude said:

not every build can be "1 mod and be immortal dps", one of warframes driving points is variety with customization, with the exception of the arcanes, everything i mentioned is easily obtainable and isnt even required, build rhino how you want, but dont say its bad or heavily dependant if you dont wanna put the time into it.

But it is.... I've thrown both Time and Forma at Rhino Prime.... Iron Skin is not as good as people think or claim it is....

But then again that doesn't matter.... Iron Skin isn't what makes Rhino Good....it's Actually Roar.

6 hours ago, hugeblackdude said:

if anything, its one of the easiest, least factor inclusive frames to build, not as bad as inaros, but not as over-complicated as something like octavia, if that makes any sense, im kinda hungover at the moment.

No it doesn't make sense.... What's so complicated about Building Octavia ?

She doesn't even have a Base Line requirement of Stats so people tend to build her however they want I don't think I've ever seen two identical Octavia Builds....

[Solarsyphon]

Rhinos current play style is to build up allot of  armor using  rhino charge, reinforcing stomp, arcanes or mecha pulse and use that to cast rhino skin. 
The main issue is that all that gets used is charge because its the best and his build really lacks mod space because of needing two augments. One for recasting iron skin and the other for buffing armor.  This is less a power problem as it is a build variety problem. 

Helminth has added some nice additions for rhino mainly war cry, defy, elemental ward, empower, larva and ensnare which all add armor, power strength or group enemies to improve ironclad charge.  

Also most of these methods would be improved with buffing rhinos base armor.  He has less Armor than Saryn and Garuda? like why?

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

3 hours ago, Lutesque said:

But it is.... I've thrown both Time and Forma at Rhino Prime.... Iron Skin is not as good as people think or claim it is...

Can you explain this statement? Are you saying iron skin is bad/worse then X other defense skill, or just that people put too much stock into it?

[KrazyKavatLady]

On 2020-09-10 at 10:11 PM, BadgerAmongMen said:

He's squishy, his iron skin is practically worthless in high tier content.

You're playing Rhino wrong if you think he's squishy.

[Lutesque]

3 hours ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

Can you explain this statement? Are you saying iron skin is bad/worse then X other defense skill, or just that people put too much stock into it?

Just the last part.... People really Oversell it.... Particularly when it comes to reccomending it to new Players.

2 hours ago, KrazyKavatLady said:

You're playing Rhino wrong if you think he's squishy.

I think you're playing Rhino wrong if you focus on Iron Skin at all...

Whether it's good or not is less Relevant than the fact that personal Survivability only does so much to help with mission Objectives.

[selig_fay]

3 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Just the last part.... People really Oversell it.... Particularly when it comes to reccomending it to new Players.

It sounds strange. A new player who does not have vitality and endo mods will pray for this ability. On the other hand, people who facetank everything must suffer. As mentioned above, you can literally go 1 mission using iron skin 1 time.

[Lutesque]

18 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

It sounds strange. A new player who does not have vitality and endo mods will pray for this ability. On the other hand, people who facetank everything must suffer. As mentioned above, you can literally go 1 mission using iron skin 1 time.

The problem.... As is always the problem is Energy.... And all of Rhino's Abilities are extremely costly when it comes to Energy. 

From my own Experience and watching other new Players I noticed that you only get to use Iron Skin once.... Not because you get do much HP that you don't need to cast it again but because you don't get enough Energy to Recast it if it falls off.

For new players I think Wukong and Nezha are waaaaaaay better than Rhino.... especially since they are acquired from Dojo Labs.

 

I mean Ideally Gauss would be nice but he's too far into the Star Chart for me to reccommend to new players.

 

[selig_fay]

1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

The problem.... As is always the problem is Energy.... And all of Rhino's Abilities are extremely costly when it comes to Energy. 

From my own Experience and watching other new Players I noticed that you only get to use Iron Skin once.... Not because you get do much HP that you don't need to cast it again but because you don't get enough Energy to Recast it if it falls off.

For new players I think Wukong and Nezha are waaaaaaay better than Rhino.... especially since they are acquired from Dojo Labs.

 

I mean Ideally Gauss would be nice but he's too far into the Star Chart for me to reccommend to new players.

 

First, Rhino is one of the frames that doesn't care about energy efficiency. 50 energy is two energy orbs. Newbies almost always open containers, so they can find it.

Wukong and Nezha require builds to work. Rhino works by default. And you may not mind. I went to 60 levels on rhino without mods. This works great. 

On the other hand, I would advise a newbie to get Trinity and Loki, because Trinity is good against bosses and Loki is good everywhere. But this already depends on what the newbie himself wants, but they basically want to be fat and do damage without effort. This is Rhino. If I was a newbie, I would buy myself a Wisp, because, you know, it's a Wisp.

[KrazyKavatLady]

12 hours ago, Lutesque said:

think you're playing Rhino wrong if you focus on Iron Skin at all...

Sure, but you'd still be playing him wrong if you think he's squishy.

[Lutesque]

9 hours ago, selig_fay said:

First, Rhino is one of the frames that doesn't care about energy efficiency. 50 energy is two energy orbs. Newbies almost always open containers, so they can find it.

Makes no Difference whether Open Containers or Not... RNG Orbs continue to be RNG Orbs...

I know because I used to do that too.

9 hours ago, selig_fay said:

Wukong and Nezha require builds to work.

Of course they do... Every Warframe does except maybe Octavia.

9 hours ago, selig_fay said:

Rhino works by default.

He actually works terribly without Energy... Even worse than Excalibur or Maggy...

9 hours ago, selig_fay said:

I went to 60 levels on rhino without mods.

60 Levels of What ?

9 hours ago, selig_fay said:

because Trinity is good against bosses

How is she good against Bosses ?

9 hours ago, selig_fay said:

Loki is good everywhere.

I don't think so.... I do see Loki Everywhere but I wouldn't say he's good at things like Disruption or ESO....

9 hours ago, selig_fay said:

I would advise a newbie to get Trinity and Loki,

You do Realise that Trinity drops from the Ambulus Boss tight ? That's not exactly a Boss I would reccomend a new player doing more than once just to clear the node....

Granted that's what I did because I was lucky to get a Rage mod to drop for me in the Void but even then I barely scraped through it with Frost.

9 hours ago, selig_fay said:

But this already depends on what the newbie himself wants, but they basically want to be fat and do damage without effort. This is Rhino.

But it is isn't... Rhino depends on Energy to do those things and Energy Orbs aren't reliable enough for that to actually be true...

9 hours ago, selig_fay said:

If I was a newbie, I would buy myself a Wisp, because, you know, it's a Wisp.

Wisp is cool.... Although I've only ever used a single build for her...I can't imagine what it's like if I didn't have 300% Power Strength on her... It feels mandatory.

 

[selig_fay]

2 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Wisp is cool.... Although I've only ever used a single build for her...I can't imagine what it's like if I didn't have 300% Power Strength on her... It feels mandatory.

This is the main problem of the players. They only see she as a buff bot. But she very, very flexible. Including the invulnerable tank that she can be.

20 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

60 Levels of What ?

If the fact of 60 levels without mods does not impress you, here is 140 steel path only with energy syphon. Of course, I left the choice of equipment to myself. Rino, this isn't Titania who can use razorwing if you're a beginner. These are 140 LVL mobs that have high damage for a beginner. And you can do it just by using one mod. Now imagine what happens if a newbie can get 175% energy efficiency with energy syphon on Rhino.

 

[Lutesque]

4 hours ago, selig_fay said:

This is the main problem of the players. They only see she as a buff bot. But she very, very flexible. Including the invulnerable tank that she can be.

She's okay...  Just not really my style ... Her Tenno Spectres is amazing though...

4 hours ago, selig_fay said:

If the fact of 60 levels without mods does not impress you, here is 140 steel path only with energy syphon. Of course, I left the choice of equipment to myself. Rino, this isn't Titania who can use razorwing if you're a beginner. These are 140 LVL mobs that have high damage for a beginner. And you can do it just by using one mod. Now imagine what happens if a newbie can get 175% energy efficiency with energy syphon on Rhino.

Yeah that's nice and all but I don't base my evaluation of any Warframe by Edge Case Scenarios... 

[selig_fay]

2 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Yeah that's nice and all but I don't base my evaluation of any Warframe by Edge Case Scenarios... 

The newbie doesn't have a lot of warframes. It doesn't even have slots for it. What scenarios are you talking about?

Okay, it doesn't matter. This thread is originally about how "bad" iron skin is ...

[Lutesque]

5 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

The newbie doesn't have a lot of warframes. It doesn't even have slots for it. What scenarios are you talking about?

Just completing Nodes throughout the Star Chart....

6 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

Okay, it doesn't matter. This thread is originally about how "bad" iron skin is ...

I'd rather see Stomp get either it's Duration Increased or its Energy Cost Reduced....

[selig_fay]

11 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Just completing Nodes throughout the Star Chart....

Rhino is good for all of this. Mag is good for farm Ambulas for Trinity. Trinity Energy Vampire is good against most bosses (especially vural). And one invisible frame just for spy.

But with the same success, if we consider niche cases, I can say that Limbo is the best choice, because while big friends clear the map, all containers must be broken. Well, Necros is your best friend for looong time. And lol, Rhino is good for Lephantis because Rhino stomp stun Lephantis head. 

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

33 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

Rhino is good for all of this. Mag is good for farm Ambulas for Trinity. Trinity Energy Vampire is good against most bosses (especially vural). And one invisible frame just for spy.

But with the same success, if we consider niche cases, I can say that Limbo is the best choice, because while big friends clear the map, all containers must be broken. Well, Necros is your best friend for looong time. And lol, Rhino is good for Lephantis because Rhino stomp stun Lephantis head. 

mag is good for everything...

mag imo is better then rhino outside of boosting damage for bosses that are immune to powers 

without using augments, or archanes u cant get past 10k iron skin, and that gets deleted instantly in steel path because it has no resistances and no armor rating for damage reduction so 10k armor acts more like 2k hp or less

the reason he doesn't get a rework is do to the fact 1337 uber meta players have all the augments and all the archanes and are syaing he is fine, but dont understand that he isn't fine, that he is utter crap outside of roar

yes i cna make him get 150k iron skin, yes it iwll get deleted just as fast as i get it do to the lack of resistances or armor rating or damage reduction, yes rhino is trash 

[selig_fay]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

without using augments, or archanes u cant get past 10k iron skin, and that gets deleted instantly in steel path because it has no resistances and no armor rating for damage reduction so 10k armor acts more like 2k hp or less

I do not know. Look at the video above, which shows how rhino works without mods on steel path. There were about 6 or 8 thousand iron skins. But on the other hand, a beginner will not go for steel path.

[Lutesque]

7 hours ago, selig_fay said:

Rhino is good for all of this.

I think he's Terrible for this due to the Unreliability of Energy Orbs...

7 hours ago, selig_fay said:

Mag is good for farm Ambulas for Trinity.

The Ambulus Fight is too Energy Intensive for Mag.... I think for New players... Octavia with Fleeting Expertise is a Better option.... 

7 hours ago, selig_fay said:

Trinity Energy Vampire is good against most bosses (especially vural). And one invisible frame just for spy.

Aren't most Bosses immune to Abilities ?

7 hours ago, selig_fay said:

And one invisible frame just for spy.

Getting Detected by Visibility in Spy Missions isn't as big a threat a threat as I think people make it out to be.... I think you are Better off going with a Warframe that can bypass Lazers....

That being said... Avoiding Cameras isn't easy if you don't know where the cameras are.... 

So you would need invisibility to Learn the Spy Vault Layout.... And then switch to something faster to actually do the Spy Vaults.

7 hours ago, selig_fay said:

 

But with the same success, if we consider niche cases, I can say that Limbo is the best choice, because while big friends clear the map, all containers must be broken. Well, Necros is your best friend for looong time

This section confuses me.

7 hours ago, selig_fay said:

And lol, Rhino is good for Lephantis because Rhino stomp stun Lephantis head. 

I think Stomp can also do that to Vay Hek and Sargus Ruk....  I think it effects Demolysts Too.... But for all Bosses Roar is the real hero in his Kit.

 

[selig_fay]

1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

 I think Stomp can also do that to Vay Hek and Sargus Ruk....  I think it effects Demolysts Too.... But for all Bosses Roar is the real hero in his Kit.

This is one of the reasons why rhino is one of the best.

1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

I think he's Terrible for this due to the Unreliability of Energy Orbs...

The energy orb is a global issue, but Rhino is a frame who almost doesn't suffer from it. This is so much of a problem that rhino is one of the frames that can be used on grendel missions. But yes, this is one of the reasons why Trinity is better. But if they are afraid of energy, then you can not advise anything other than Trinity, but in fact, a beginner can get little energy. And for this it is important that the frame has high efficiency with a small amount of energy. Rhino does this.