# Necramech Mod Drop rates are just beyond reasonable.

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Hello there. I've been put off by the Necramech gold mod drop rates for a while now, and a quick skim through the forums didn't point me to any threads giving an exact and accurate estimate of how actually terrific the situation is. So I decided to start a thread where I do the big boys math in a way anyone would be able to follow. In retrospect, I never expected it to be such a text blanket, but here it is anyways.

Let's start with the basics. Upon death Necramech has 10% chance to drop any mod from its droptable. After this 10% goes through, there is a 2.01% chance that the mod dropped would be rare. Considering a mod drops roughly every tenth kill, this gives us (2.01% divided by 10) ~0.2% chance of getting a rare mod per each Necramech kill. Seems simple enough.

Best case scenario taken into account, you would take Nekros with you, as well a mod drop chance booster from a sortie/Baro/whatever. The latter is a simpler one - your chances simply double from 0.2% to 0.4%. The former is a little trickier. Desecrate give you a 54% chance to roll the drop table again, giving you (0.4% * 0.54) 0,216% chance to loot a gold mod on Necramech killed.

Now here's a thing you'll see often in those calculations. If we need to calculate a probablity of at least one event going off(either regular drop or Desecrate drop gives you the rare mod), it's generally easier to calculate the probability of neither events going off and reverse the number. Here it would be (100%-0.4%) 99.6% of not getting the mod normally and (100%-0.216%) 99.784% of not Desecrating the mod. Combined, this gives us (0,996*0,99784=0.99385 ) ~99,38% of not getting the mod at all, which means there is a 0,62% chance of actually getting at least one per Necramech killed. This may seem tricky if you're bad with math, but just believe me on this one.

The most efficient way to grind those mods is to do three vault runs, due to increasing amount of Necramechs in each. Knowing, that each kill gives us a 0,62% probability of getting a rare mod, we would have to repeat the previous step, but now calculate the probability of at least one of six killed mechs giving us the mod. We already calculated the probability to not get the mod per kill, now we need to multiply it by itself 6 times. This gives us (0.99385^6=0.96366) 96.37% of not getting the mod from three vault run, or 3.67% of actually getting one mod from a three vault run. It doesn't sound so bad, considering we came all the way from 0.2%, right?

Let's put that into perspective. Considering you're a speedrun god(ess) and have a decent party, you would waste at least 2 minutes on the bait phase, 3 minutes on the toxic phase, and 1-2 minutes to kill the necramech(s), get out and start the next one. This means most optimal three vault run would take you no less than 20 minutes (which I think is an impossible mark to beat in practice). 3,67% of getting a mod per run means that from 100 runs you would get at least one mod in 3.67 runs, averaging 27 runs to get one mod. In terms of time it would take 540 minutes or exactly 9 hours of non-stop ideally optimized grind to to get at least one rare mod

But it gets better.

Each mod drops from it's own vault. That means that Thrusters drop only from the first vault Necramech, Seismic Wave drop from only the second vault Necramechs, and so on. If you're doing only three vault runs, this would mean that you get one chance to get the Thrusters, two chances to get the Seismic Wave and three chances to get the Streamline each 20 minutes. Why is this a bad thing? You're twice more likely to get the Seismic Wave and thrice more likely to get the Streamline when compared to the Thrusters. This is not much of an issue when farming Streamline, but if you want Thrusters or Seismic Wave specifically(which is what's likely to happen considering you have most chances to get the Streamline in three vault runs), your farm rate will drop down as you decide not to finish the third vault. Doing two vault runs net you 3 mechs in around 13 minutes, and doing just first vault nets you 1 mech every 6.5 minutes.

This means the farm speed drops considerably, with two vault runs giving you 4.5 mechs every 20 minutes, and 1 vault runs dropping that to 3 mechs per 20 minutes. Resulting in 13.5 hours of grind to get at least some rare mod in first case, and 18 hours of grind to get the Thrusters.

On average.

This is ideal scenario with mod drop chance booster, Nekros and party full of speedrunners. For a regular player this figures would quadruple at the very least, considering mod drop chance booster isn't readily available, Nekros is not guaranteed without a pre-made party and randoms' constant tendency to open every damn vault they get their hands on.

What I want to ask DE - we have a bunch of warframes with pilfering abilities you gave us for this exact reason - to manipulate drop chances and give players some agency on the rewards they're getting directly tied to effort and planning that goes into the farming. Name one good reason why only damn Nekros gets a pass on this one.

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The necramech farm is so mind numbing that I gave up after a few days. I’ll come back to it eventually when I get really bored of other games. As of right now I’d rather drive thumbtacks into my finger than to farm the new system.

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I stopped bringing nekross to the vault after the 300-400 mech kill.(I'm farming only the streamline)
It's pointless to me tbh with this f drop %.
I now just bring whatever I want(I think the most chill one is revenant) and let luck do it's job.

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They seem to have adjusted the drop rates. There are the ones available on Loid to buy now, but I've gotten several the last few vault runs as well. Still missing some rare ones, but the Necramech actually feels playable now.

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Its simple. Dont play iso vault. Dont farm this mods. If u play iso vault then chance DE will buff this bs. 0.0002 %.

3 minutes ago, HoustonDragon said:

They seem to have adjusted the drop rates. There are the ones available on Loid to buy now, but I've gotten several the last few vault runs as well. Still missing some rare ones, but the Necramech actually feels playable now.

That must be the 0.02. % Or maybe u use your 1 year worth of luck that night. Do you ever try again and get the mod again? I guess. No

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Just now, HoustonDragon said:

They seem to have adjusted the drop rates. There are the ones available on Loid to buy now, but I've gotten several the last few vault runs as well. Still missing some rare ones, but the Necramech actually feels playable now.

https://n8k6e2y6.ssl.hwcdn.net/repos/hnfvc0o3jnfvc873njb03enrf56.html
Here's the official droptables(Jesus the link looks weird)
Just search for Necramech Thrusters, it's still 2,01%. As well as two other gold mods.

Giving Intensify and Pressure Point to Loid was a step in right direction, but it honestly should've been Intensify and Streamline. Pressure Point does literally nothing, Necramech melee is so pathetic it barely kills enemies on lowest tier bounties, +60% is like a drop in the ocean, they should've made the melee weapon itself moddable. Worst thing about Necramechs rn is their Energy economy, Streamline is a must-have and it's locked behind a grindwall.

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1 minute ago, HoustonDragon said:

They seem to have adjusted the drop rates. There are the ones available on Loid to buy now, but I've gotten several the last few vault runs as well. Still missing some rare ones, but the Necramech actually feels playable now.

They just took some of the mods out of the drop tables, but the drop chance of getting a mod at all (10%) and your chance to drop a rare one (0.2%) is still the same.

Previously dropping a specific rare mod like Necramech Thrusters was a 0.066% chance, but if you never dropped a rare mod at all, pretty much nothing has changed for you.

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IMO nekros shouldn't work as well AND either drop chances should increase drastically (at least 50% to drop the mod at all, and a way better weights on uncommon/rare mods - i'd say at least 15% to drop a rare one) or move all mods to Loyd. Currently, drop rates are obviously atrocious, and nekros being the only frame which can influence them in any way makes him an absolute must pick for both solo and random group farming (i get that's he's a farmer frame, but there must be a line).

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Just realized this thread is in General Discussion. Can I somehow move it to Feedback? I thought I made sure I was creating a thread in Feedback.

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30 minutes ago, superiouz said:

Its simple. Dont play iso vault. Dont farm this mods. If u play iso vault then chance DE will buff this bs. 0.0002 %.

That must be the 0.02. % Or maybe u use your 1 year worth of luck that night. Do you ever try again and get the mod again? I guess. No

Maybe. I just have several more than I did last week after running a couple of T3-5 sets. The melee ones are kind of pointless, given we don't actually have Archmelee yet. Also, either I've gotten better at it or it felt like they tweaked the Necramech fights too. Even the 3 enemies vault went more smoothly to kill them.

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Friends and I recently got our Necramechs.  It's easier to get a full set of parts than it is to get mods for it.  We have 5 mods in total.  2 are duplicates.  All are bronze.  Super low drop rates are reasonable for enemies that we fight all the time.  A 0.1% drop chance is fine when we're fighting that enemy dozens of times per mission.  It's insane when we fight at most about 6 per hour, and said enemy is literally the only drop source.

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Just wait until they change it.

In this game you either wait for half a year until De finishes an update or you try to get everything when the update is still new but burn yourself out. I choose the latter but that's because I literally can't get burned out at all.

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Can I flag my thread for deletion? I want to repost it into feedback.

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Moon Lord has 10% drop rate for all of his items, just 10% not like the mechs that are 10% for a mod to drop and then 2% for a rare one to show up.

I compared mechs with moon Lord cause they're not like any enemy they're bosses it takes time to get to them and they're scarce.

Bosses should never have fodder enemies 0.4% drop rates

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1 hour ago, PsVeresk said:

Hello there. I've been put off by the Necramech gold mod drop rates for a while now, and a quick skim through the forums didn't point me to any threads giving an exact and accurate estimate of how actually terrific the situation is. So I decided to start a thread where I do the big boys math in a way anyone would be able to follow. In retrospect, I never expected it to be such a text blanket, but here it is anyways.

Let's start with the basics. Upon death Necramech has 10% chance to drop any mod from its droptable. After this 10% goes through, there is a 2.01% chance that the mod dropped would be rare. Considering a mod drops roughly every tenth kill, this gives us (2.01% divided by 10) ~0.2% chance of getting a rare mod per each Necramech kill. Seems simple enough.

Best case scenario taken into account, you would take Nekros with you, as well a mod drop chance booster from a sortie/Baro/whatever. The latter is a simpler one - your chances simply double from 0.2% to 0.4%. The former is a little trickier. Desecrate give you a 54% chance to roll the drop table again, giving you (0.4% * 0.54) 0,216% chance to loot a gold mod on Necramech killed.

Now here's a thing you'll see often in those calculations. If we need to calculate a probablity of at least one event going off(either regular drop or Desecrate drop gives you the rare mod), it's generally easier to calculate the probability of neither events going off and reverse the number. Here it would be (100%-0.4%) 99.6% of not getting the mod normally and (100%-0.216%) 99.784% of not Desecrating the mod. Combined, this gives us (0,996*0,99784=0.99385 ) ~99,38% of not getting the mod at all, which means there is a 0,62% chance of actually getting at least one per Necramech killed. This may seem tricky if you're bad with math, but just believe me on this one.

The most efficient way to grind those mods is to do three vault runs, due to increasing amount of Necramechs in each. Knowing, that each kill gives us a 0,62% probability of getting a rare mod, we would have to repeat the previous step, but now calculate the probability of at least one of six killed mechs giving us the mod. We already calculated the probability to not get the mod per kill, now we need to multiply it by itself 6 times. This gives us (0.99385^6=0.96366) 96.37% of not getting the mod from three vault run, or 3.67% of actually getting one mod from a three vault run. It doesn't sound so bad, considering we came all the way from 0.2%, right?

Let's put that into perspective. Considering you're a speedrun god(ess) and have a decent party, you would waste at least 2 minutes on the bait phase, 3 minutes on the toxic phase, and 1-2 minutes to kill the necramech(s), get out and start the next one. This means most optimal three vault run would take you no less than 20 minutes (which I think is an impossible mark to beat in practice). 3,67% of getting a mod per run means that from 100 runs you would get at least one mod in 3.67 runs, averaging 27 runs to get one mod. In terms of time it would take 540 minutes or exactly 9 hours of non-stop ideally optimized grind to to get at least one rare mod

But it gets better.

Each mod drops from it's own vault. That means that Thrusters drop only from the first vault Necramech, Seismic Wave drop from only the second vault Necramechs, and so on. If you're doing only three vault runs, this would mean that you get one chance to get the Thrusters, two chances to get the Seismic Wave and three chances to get the Streamline each 20 minutes. Why is this a bad thing? You're twice more likely to get the Seismic Wave and thrice more likely to get the Streamline when compared to the Thrusters. This is not much of an issue when farming Streamline, but if you want Thrusters or Seismic Wave specifically(which is what's likely to happen considering you have most chances to get the Streamline in three vault runs), your farm rate will drop down as you decide not to finish the third vault. Doing two vault runs net you 3 mechs in around 13 minutes, and doing just first vault nets you 1 mech every 6.5 minutes.

This means the farm speed drops considerably, with two vault runs giving you 4.5 mechs every 20 minutes, and 1 vault runs dropping that to 3 mechs per 20 minutes. Resulting in 13.5 hours of grind to get at least some rare mod in first case, and 18 hours of grind to get the Thrusters.

On average.

This is ideal scenario with mod drop chance booster, Nekros and party full of speedrunners. For a regular player this figures would quadruple at the very least, considering mod drop chance booster isn't readily available, Nekros is not guaranteed without a pre-made party and randoms' constant tendency to open every damn vault they get their hands on.

What I want to ask DE - we have a bunch of warframes with pilfering abilities you gave us for this exact reason - to manipulate drop chances and give players some agency on the rewards they're getting directly tied to effort and planning that goes into the farming. Name one good reason why only damn Nekros gets a pass on this one.

I think it would smart to add more necramechs to the open world & make them neutral so if you wanna kill them you can to help ease the farming. so they aren't just in the vaults which doing those right now is mind numbing and dull for me and i think other players.

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so i did the math for an average player, not a maxed out group, and you need 190 HOURS to get an EXPECTED (90% chance) drop for necramech streamline on average, not accounting for the wurm cycles stopping you from running all the time. with 1 out of 4 runs being ruined by them on average, you actually will need over 260 hours to get a 90% of the mod dropping for you. If you play 13 hours a day, which is NOT healthy, you still need 20 days to get this ONE mod. And that is playing the exact same thing, without making mistakes, without having to get other players for your party, for pretty much a month! These droprates are honestly insane.

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1 hour ago, superiouz said:

Its simple. Dont play iso vault. Dont farm this mods. If u play iso vault then chance DE will buff this bs. 0.0002 %.

This. So much this.

It's a shame that so many people put so little value on their time. Spending ages bashing your head against a wall over and over and over again simply because something has a minute chance of appearing is not something to be proud of. It's basically a gambling addiction and it is quite harmful.

Reject it entirely. The only way DE will take notice is if a large proportion of the playerbase look at it and go "no way in hell". If you're bored, there are plenty of other games to play which do respect your time (either on their own or through mods).

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Meh, seems like a "wait for prices to stabilize then just buy from Market" thing to me. Already we see that only the golds that you can't buy with Standing are worth anything, prices are dropping every day as even with the low drop rates Vaults are getting hit hard, and it's not as if having an uber Necramech is a high priority as the thing seems to be barely usable for anything but Deimos bounties right now and hardly worth it at even that.

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The rates wouldn't be so bad if there were more ways to fight necramechs, with just 1 mission to try and farm for these and spending like 30-40 mins to fight 6 of them and you need to fight like 500 of them to have a reasonable shot to get the rare mods 1 in 10 drop a mod and 1 in 50 of those will be a rare drop.  Seems pretty bad atm but my guess is they will add some necramech content in the future at some point and then mods will drop more often i'll probly just wait on that.

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I'm still stuck in the pre-grind for this so can't comment directly, but it is well written, looks well reasoned and I'm sure your calculations are accurate.  I just wanted to state my appreciation of the phrase 'text blanket'.

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Honestly, I played vaults so much mainly because I liked the gameplay. But after doing it for a while, I'm starting to get bored.

It'd be much smarter if they distrubuted the mods to different activites, like different bounties, vendors and such.

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2 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

Reject it entirely. The only way DE will take notice is if a large proportion of the playerbase look at it and go "no way in hell". If you're bored, there are plenty of other games to play which do respect your time (either on their own or through mods).

This, so much this. I remember seeing an interview where DE said they respected their players' time. Clearly not so much anymore. Especially when so little is on offer with Deimos, that it's stretched to it's absolute thinnest.

Because making it 5 excavators, or waiting forever for enemies to spawn for Latrox, is really respecting their time. 🙄

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4 hours ago, Eluminary said:

The rates wouldn't be so bad if there were more ways to fight necramechs,

Especially since at first they're like "Oh, the necramechs can't tell friend from foe, and will try to kill anyone they see!" and then outside the vault the only ones we see are dead or friendly.  Even in the vault Loid is all "Shed no tears for the Necramech. For they are relentless enemies to all. And there is no countermanding that."

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10% is just so bad for very limited enemy. 20% or 25% be alot better  or let us fight the random necramechs that are wondering the drift

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if we can just get Loid to have them all, then the rubbish drop chances on the mechs can fill the trade surplus for people with more plat than Necraloid standing, and then it won't matter if the drops are garbage, because most players will have their mods; we get what we want, DE keeps their terrible drop rates! win-win!