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An Open Letter to the Team at Digital Extremes


(PSN)chaos-SD

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To the Team at Digital Extremes,

This is a bit long overdue.  Appreciation and thankfulness usually are.  

On the most recent Home Devstream the crew -- Reb, Scott, Steve, Geoff and Sheldon -- asked that we thank you for your hard work on Deimos ...but really, that's not enough, and hopefully most reading or passing through the forums, or reaching out on Twitter will know this.  Appreciation does not come often enough these days.  Too often the giving of thanks is either replaced with a monetary compensation or overshadowed in the deluge of criticism and negativity, and both clearly lack the heart that is needed and perhaps grows more and more required these days.

Even this open letter itself will not make up for the 5 years (I started my real warframe career in 2015) of thanks that is necessary from me and certainly not from the larger community that is hopefully wanting to give it.  But here it goes anyway:

When I began Warframe I was looking for a time suck.  I was stuck at home between surgeries and doctors appointments going on four years, and while many games struggled to come into the games as a service model, Warframe was beginning to thrive.  I hate to admit my first forray into your BETA (lul) in 2013 had me completely unimpressed.

TotalBiscuit had hailed the game as one of the best on PC and moving the industry forward, so I couldn't help but be eager to try your passion project on PS4.  As I mentioned, I didn't get into Warframe at first, but with time all things change.  The pain I have to deal with everyday in my legs grew tremendously in both my legs, I couldn't stay on my feet for 30 minutes in the kitchen just to make food without significant pain, I couldn't work a job, and games were a way to help me stay sane as I continued to navigate the messed maze of the American medical system.  Happily Warframes growing pains were much better than mine!

As Destiny, the game that my friends and I played to pass our time, struggled to find its feet in its first year, some of the team wanted to give Warframe a shot feeling a need for something more.  That's exactly what all of us found, a (mostly) carefully crafted equation that was adjacent to games we enjoyed such as Diablo, Destiny, but had clearly differentiated itself in a way that allowed itself to be reactive to the needs of the players and grow tremendously.  

At a time when I was between 3 major surgeries stuck in life that felt like it couldn't change or go anywhere, weight gaining, health issues compounding, my friends and I found a game that was changing parkour to players wants and needs, pulling back on changes to shotguns only weeks after releasing them, and continually pushing new items and content to the players.

Grateful doesn't even come close to cutting it.  Yes, its a product, but that is not where it stops.  It is an object of passion between you, all of the developers, and us the community.  Yes, like other developers and products that have a relationship with their customers, there are always going to be growing pains.  Hell, that's part of the human experience, growth can be hard and we are not perfect.  But in an age of cynicism, where negative talk dominates the wavelengths, it can be so easy to neglect saying where anyone gets it right.  Especially online. 

So, with all of that in mind, thank you for your art of spectacular uniqueness in a time where it has most often been easy to iterate on "what people like" and when you were told that sci-fi isn't in. I appreciate your constant efforts to work on improving existing gameplay and systems to make for an ever evolving, refining experience of often clear passion and dedication; these efforts do not go unnoticed.  Thank you for being one of the few developers that remains in a constant dialogue with their community while there never seems to be a consistency of growth in this area of the industry; instead a seeming accordion effect over the decades as many come and go from the notion of communication.  Thank you for your efforts which are seen, but especially for those that go unseen and likely even go unheard.  It is hard for many to conceptualize the understanding of physics generation, human and ai heuristic architecture, engine and hardware allowance, and so much more; so from one who has the vague concept of these things, again, thanks. 

Since I began down the rabbit hole I might as well conclude.  I mostly recovered from my situation.  Was able to start working again, was able to start working out and lost 55 lbs, got involved with a woman who lived with a pain of her own, but sadly some pains are hard to live with and can be visited on others when we have been through too much or do not remain conscious of ourselves.  An organ or two was lost (you stop counting at my age), and I was diagnosed with an auto immune condition that wants to cripple and kill me.  But I'm not letting it.  I live in pain every single day, but I'm in less pain than any of the last 9 years and you and your team have in many ways been there through it.

Again, its weird, not all products are just products anymore.  Not all services are just a service anymore.  Not all games are solely just a game anymore.  I liken this sense of the state of Warframe both to a sense of home, and to the sense I have when I walk into my gym.  My fitness center like many is a nice place to work out, people are friendly, its a clean  atmosphere that mostly works.  Its not perfect but unlike most its filled with mostly people that actually give a S#&$.  The workers care about so many of us that walk through the door and about this space they've created, and we treat them and each other like family.  Family that we care about and want good for.  We all have our blemishes, our issues that we carry around, just like Warframe has its own, but those issues do not overshadow its good.  

When I parted with my Ex after 3 years, having thought we were it, having felt she was my home and I lost that sense of home, I found it in many other places.  Sitting at home on the couch or at my desk didn't feel the same, but sitting in my orbiter did even if I wasn't playing at home, there I could find some semblance of a place I belonged.  Warframe has been there, a welcoming place with heart and home to come back to, with senses of old and new, a place to relish in or remodel and expand.  A place where a majority of the unspoken quiet community appreciates whats here, even if we often do not speak it enough.  And it is all because of the efforts of most of you behind the scenes.

Much like everyone, I'm going through the paces of Covid and lockdown (but in less lockdown than most due to the insanity of present day America).  Unlike most, unlike most of you, I did this professionally for four long years while in tremendous pain.  It gives me a greater appreciation for the whole of it all.  I know for many this is not easy in the slightest, some are likely grappling with a loss of their sense of home at this very moment, feeling as if their reality is shaken and continues to be upset by the imbalance of the world.  And even while some of you, our devs, may feel that, you pushed through to continue to give us a sense of something we are used to, some sense of normal amongst all of this chaos.  For me you furthered my sense of home as you always have, and it is why you and yours will always have a space reserved in my heart and mind.  

There aren't enough words in the english language to thank most people most days, so I hope this minor letter and these simple words can come close to what I really feel:  Thank you for Deimos.  Thank you for Warframe.  Thank you for home.  Thank you for family.  Thank you.  Forever.

-SD

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In light of other most prevalent game developers and "standard" business practices, DE still stands out. Massively. 
Come with us and play war thunder, fabulous game with greedy, rude, in your face monetization practices, zero community management effort, absolutely non transparent development process and prone to false advertising and pay to win. 

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Number 1: DE Doesn't read general. Anything you want them to read goes in feedback.

Number 2: Don't bother with positive posts in general discussion. This is where all the sad, entitled salty veterans and casuals that can't read a wiki or mod their frames and weapons properly go to complain. 

Number 3: I love this game, too, and plan to play for years on end. Cheers.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Number 1: DE Doesn't read general. Anything you want them to read goes in feedback.

Number 2: Don't bother with positive posts in general discussion. This is where all the sad, entitled salty veterans and casuals that can't read a wiki or mod their frames and weapons properly go to complain. 

Number 3: I love this game, too, and plan to play for years on end. Cheers.

1. True. That's why these love letters ends up being mocked. 

2. Merit should be earned with the delivery of quality. Well thought out recognition worth more than just high school cheer leading.

3. Many enjoy the game on their own terms but liking something doesn't exclude critique and scrutiny.  

 

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The developers are human beings, which means they deserve plenty of both praise and criticism in general in life, and not just at their jobs, just like all of us. 

Allow someone creating a thread for a backslap to have that, not everything needs to be about someone's faults. We are all well aware they have them. I'm well aware I have faults too. Not every conversation about me, needs to be about my need for self improvement. Just as not every thread about DE has to be about what they do wrong. 

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5 hours ago, (PS4)chaos-SD said:

To the Team at Digital Extremes,

This is a bit long overdue.  Appreciation and thankfulness usually are.  

On the most recent Home Devstream the crew -- Reb, Scott, Steve, Geoff and Sheldon -- asked that we thank you for your hard work on Deimos ...but really, that's not enough, and hopefully most reading or passing through the forums, or reaching out on Twitter will know this.  Appreciation does not come often enough these days.  Too often the giving of thanks is either replaced with a monetary compensation or overshadowed in the deluge of criticism and negativity, and both clearly lack the heart that is needed and perhaps grows more and more required these days.

Even this open letter itself will not make up for the 5 years (I started my real warframe career in 2015) of thanks that is necessary from me and certainly not from the larger community that is hopefully wanting to give it.  But here it goes anyway:

When I began Warframe I was looking for a time suck.  I was stuck at home between surgeries and doctors appointments going on four years, and while many games struggled to come into the games as a service model, Warframe was beginning to thrive.  I hate to admit my first forray into your BETA (lul) in 2013 had me completely unimpressed.

TotalBiscuit had hailed the game as one of the best on PC and moving the industry forward, so I couldn't help but be eager to try your passion project on PS4.  As I mentioned, I didn't get into Warframe at first, but with time all things change.  The pain I have to deal with everyday in my legs grew tremendously in both my legs, I couldn't stay on my feet for 30 minutes in the kitchen just to make food without significant pain, I couldn't work a job, and games were a way to help me stay sane as I continued to navigate the messed maze of the American medical system.  Happily Warframes growing pains were much better than mine!

As Destiny, the game that my friends and I played to pass our time, struggled to find its feet in its first year, some of the team wanted to give Warframe a shot feeling a need for something more.  That's exactly what all of us found, a (mostly) carefully crafted equation that was adjacent to games we enjoyed such as Diablo, Destiny, but had clearly differentiated itself in a way that allowed itself to be reactive to the needs of the players and grow tremendously.  

At a time when I was between 3 major surgeries stuck in life that felt like it couldn't change or go anywhere, weight gaining, health issues compounding, my friends and I found a game that was changing parkour to players wants and needs, pulling back on changes to shotguns only weeks after releasing them, and continually pushing new items and content to the players.

Grateful doesn't even come close to cutting it.  Yes, its a product, but that is not where it stops.  It is an object of passion between you, all of the developers, and us the community.  Yes, like other developers and products that have a relationship with their customers, there are always going to be growing pains.  Hell, that's part of the human experience, growth can be hard and we are not perfect.  But in an age of cynicism, where negative talk dominates the wavelengths, it can be so easy to neglect saying where anyone gets it right.  Especially online. 

So, with all of that in mind, thank you for your art of spectacular uniqueness in a time where it has most often been easy to iterate on "what people like" and when you were told that sci-fi isn't in. I appreciate your constant efforts to work on improving existing gameplay and systems to make for an ever evolving, refining experience of often clear passion and dedication; these efforts do not go unnoticed.  Thank you for being one of the few developers that remains in a constant dialogue with their community while there never seems to be a consistency of growth in this area of the industry; instead a seeming accordion effect over the decades as many come and go from the notion of communication.  Thank you for your efforts which are seen, but especially for those that go unseen and likely even go unheard.  It is hard for many to conceptualize the understanding of physics generation, human and ai heuristic architecture, engine and hardware allowance, and so much more; so from one who has the vague concept of these things, again, thanks. 

Since I began down the rabbit hole I might as well conclude.  I mostly recovered from my situation.  Was able to start working again, was able to start working out and lost 55 lbs, got involved with a woman who lived with a pain of her own, but sadly some pains are hard to live with and can be visited on others when we have been through too much or do not remain conscious of ourselves.  An organ or two was lost (you stop counting at my age), and I was diagnosed with an auto immune condition that wants to cripple and kill me.  But I'm not letting it.  I live in pain every single day, but I'm in less pain than any of the last 9 years and you and your team have in many ways been there through it.

Again, its weird, not all products are just products anymore.  Not all services are just a service anymore.  Not all games are solely just a game anymore.  I liken this sense of the state of Warframe both to a sense of home, and to the sense I have when I walk into my gym.  My fitness center like many is a nice place to work out, people are friendly, its a clean  atmosphere that mostly works.  Its not perfect but unlike most its filled with mostly people that actually give a S#&$.  The workers care about so many of us that walk through the door and about this space they've created, and we treat them and each other like family.  Family that we care about and want good for.  We all have our blemishes, our issues that we carry around, just like Warframe has its own, but those issues do not overshadow its good.  

When I parted with my Ex after 3 years, having thought we were it, having felt she was my home and I lost that sense of home, I found it in many other places.  Sitting at home on the couch or at my desk didn't feel the same, but sitting in my orbiter did even if I wasn't playing at home, there I could find some semblance of a place I belonged.  Warframe has been there, a welcoming place with heart and home to come back to, with senses of old and new, a place to relish in or remodel and expand.  A place where a majority of the unspoken quiet community appreciates whats here, even if we often do not speak it enough.  And it is all because of the efforts of most of you behind the scenes.

Much like everyone, I'm going through the paces of Covid and lockdown (but in less lockdown than most due to the insanity of present day America).  Unlike most, unlike most of you, I did this professionally for four long years while in tremendous pain.  It gives me a greater appreciation for the whole of it all.  I know for many this is not easy in the slightest, some are likely grappling with a loss of their sense of home at this very moment, feeling as if their reality is shaken and continues to be upset by the imbalance of the world.  And even while some of you, our devs, may feel that, you pushed through to continue to give us a sense of something we are used to, some sense of normal amongst all of this chaos.  For me you furthered my sense of home as you always have, and it is why you and yours will always have a space reserved in my heart and mind.  

There aren't enough words in the english language to thank most people most days, so I hope this minor letter and these simple words can come close to what I really feel:  Thank you for Deimos.  Thank you for Warframe.  Thank you for home.  Thank you for family.  Thank you.  Forever.

-SD

@(PS4)chaos-SD Select your entire post, then follow these steps to make it legible for users with BOTH forum themes. 4rZy8ax.png

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1 minute ago, Tesseract7777 said:

The developers are human beings, which means they deserve plenty of both praise and criticism in general in life, and not just at their jobs, just like all of us. 

Allow someone creating a thread for a backslap to have that, not everything needs to be about someone's faults. We are all well aware they have them. I'm well aware I have faults too. Not every conversation about me, needs to be about my need for self improvement. Just as not every thread about DE has to be about what they do wrong. 

The developers are subjected to critique and scrutiny when is well deserved and presented in a respectful manner. Their job is the delivery of quality, we pay them for it. They eat, sleep and pay their bills because they are good at the job. That job is the delivery of fair quality in the production of their material. 

For better or worse people tend to mock these love letters because they are pies in the sky. People are free selecting their narratives and going on what they enjoy in the game. That is perfectly fine but painting everything pink is not. It sounds more like a sarcasm instead of a sincere gratitude. 

Sincere gratitude should be expressed in exactness, in precise things that DE does right. That exactness and precision makes believable these 'love letters' other than a predicament to the choir. 

See? 

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Just now, Felsagger said:

The developers are subjected to critique and scrutiny when is well deserved and presented in a respectful manner. Their job is the delivery of quality, we pay them for it. They eat, sleep and pay their bills because they are good at the job. That job is the delivery of fair quality in the production of their material. 

For better or worse people tend to mock these love letters because they are pies in the sky. People are free selecting their narratives and going on what they enjoy in the game. That is perfectly fine but painting everything pink is not. It sounds more like a sarcasm instead of a sincere gratitude. 

Sincere gratitude should be expressed in exactness, in precise things that DE does right. That exactness and precision makes believable these 'love letters' other than a predicament to the choir. 

See? 

No, you should leave this thread and do it somewhere else because bringing this drama here is rude to the OP, I'm not having this discussion. I'll just leave it at this, as this is not the appropriate thread for arguments or criticism about DE: 

Thanks for a fun new update DE! 

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For me, I feel like the updates are getting better with Steel Path, Deadlock Protocol and Heart of Deimos. DE scored on the right side with Trumna, Sepulcrum, Mausolon and the Nekramech. I can't say that Deimos wen'on the wrong direction. 

DE scored a good balance with Deimos. I can't wait for more DLC content on deimos and the boss battles, if any is planned for Fass or Vome. Would be interesting seeing how we can help further the Entrati family like helping them overcome the infestation. 

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Yeah, but at the same time- this is a forum for a specific game. Im not saying no one should criticize the game, but when a positive thread is met with Salt- you have to ask why certain people even play WF and visit its forums. Shouldnt GD also be a place where fans of the game get to actually act like fans of the game? 

 

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20 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Yeah, but at the same time- this is a forum for a specific game. Im not saying no one should criticize the game, but when a positive thread is met with Salt- you have to ask why certain people even play WF and visit its forums. Shouldnt GD also be a place where fans of the game get to actually act like fans of the game? 

 

True. 

I don't see myself as a fan of the game despite that I'm MR 29. I've been playing this because the game is a good grinder for what it offers. 

 

I think that we have to let people have their ways despite if we do not agree. Yes this thread is about gratitude but for better or worse grown ups are more grounded to skepticism. I've been there but in the end this is a forum about a game. People may like it or not. We should not judge their behavior on such, in my opinion. 

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I think this is a really heartfelt letter, with a genuine story. Whatever you feel about the game or DE, there's no need to straight up be rude to someone whom the game means a lot to. Warframe obviously got OP through some hard times.

Kudos to you OP for the honesty and for pushing through what was obviously some really hard years. 

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This topic sums up pretty well the current fanbase.. literally love hate from the playerbase

On one hand you have the eternally grateful. Just happy to play the game and refusing to push DE on any issues.

On the other you have the eternally hateful. Playing the game but unable to talk about anything positive.

The result is that genuine discourse is rare. Critical accusations about genuine issues is shot down by crowds that refuse to acknowledge them. Genuine praise that comes across as hollow and unthinking.

Heh.. with this standard its no wonder DE seems to have no direction.

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18 hours ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Number 1: DE Doesn't read general. Anything you want them to read goes in feedback.

Number 2: Don't bother with positive posts in general discussion. This is where all the sad, entitled salty veterans and casuals that can't read a wiki or mod their frames and weapons properly go to complain. 

Number 3: I love this game, too, and plan to play for years on end. Cheers.

You are to that stereotyped and very generalized idea of a portion of the player base what you think that group is to de. Which in effect makes you no better. 

This is absolutely my favorite game. Ever. But there is still a S#&$ ton of stuff wrong with it, and im not even referring to bugs. 

With respect to de, feedback warranted or not is a given, no need to be a $&*^ about it to them. With respect to the playerbase, de could listen better and address long standing concerns. 

Either way. Games good, devs arent perfect, and as long as the game doesn't have a sub service or loot boxes ill probably stick around. 

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20 hours ago, (PS4)chaos-SD said:

On the most recent Home Devstream the crew -- Reb, Scott, Steve, Geoff and Sheldon -- asked that we thank you for your hard work on Deimos

Did they really? 🤣

Ok then - thanks for doing your job - that which you get paid to do.  I wish my boss would also ask all our customers to thank me for my hard work.  I do appreciate the art team, and the sound team that has probably carried Warframe the past few years - because its not the game loop design. (although i'll take back some thanks if the art team is responsible for the form over function(and performance)  designs of recent ui changes like the mission summary screen, the railjack mod avionics screens, etc...)

If they are asking that, they are misguided as to where the feedback the majority of what I see should be directed - as if people's complaints about drop rates and gameplay loops are directed at the developers.  Here's a hint - they aren't. They are directed at the senior folks who make such decisions, not the poor line workers who are forced to implement them. And things like "buggy mess" are also directed at senior decision makers who allow untested things into the wild to make deadlines rather than quality products.

And (and this is 100% my opinion) the majority of the vitriol in the responses is because the feedback is nothing new - its the same feedback we give with every major release, and yet the same problems exist on every subsequent release.  I saw a tweet from Rebecca referring the the superlative statistical team at DE making adjustments to drop rates after release.  Well, if they were superlative, most of those adjustments wouldn't need to be made post release- its not hard to do math to see average number of runs required, nor calculate the amount of time one needs to do a mission before even getting to the enemy that drops something and come up with a baseline that thousands of hours would be required to have a high chance of farming something.  Or that 15,000 units of railjack resources to donate are way out of line.  Or that token acquisition rates were going to be an issue. 

Its not the behind the scenes developers fault that the same Iso vault had to be run 3 times in a row, or that each stage is time gated. Those are management/architect issues.

 

 

 

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