* Celestia Syandana permanent flame Steel Path reward *

[Nanology]

It's hard enough to find players in conclave let alone the long grind for the Celestia Syandana and once obtaining having to continue doing daily missions has been a major let done for players. Since Steel Path is a challenge under Teshin why not reward players with a permanently ignited Celestia Syandana? You would have to grind conclave standing to obtain it and finish Steel Path. This seems fair to actually enjoy, imo, one of the nicer syandanas. 

What are your thoughts tenno? 

[krc473]

2 minutes ago, Nanology said:

Since Steel Path is a challenge under Teshin why not reward players with a permanently ignited Celestia Syandana?

Why not simply let Steel Path missions count towards igniting it? You could do 10 missions to ignite it until reset. 

• I would also allow it to be purchased with Steel Essence. Since Teshin runs Steel Path.

 

My only objection to your suggestion is the "playing Conclave" bit. If DE wont do anything to actually fix the mode(s) nothing should be exclusive to them.

[Nanology]

2 minutes ago, krc473 said:

Why not simply let Steel Path missions count towards igniting it? You could do 10 missions to ignite it until reset. 

• I would also allow it to be purchased with Steel Essence. Since Teshin runs Steel Path.

 

My only objection to your suggestion is the "playing Conclave" bit. If DE wont do anything to actually fix the mode(s) nothing should be exclusive to them.

Oh I like the idea of doing SP missions to keep it lit, 7 flames 7 missions. Yes "playing conclave" is the issue, but most of us don't see them fixing conclave at all. 

[Stormdragon]

4 hours ago, Nanology said:

It's hard enough to find players in conclave let alone the long grind for the Celestia Syandana and once obtaining having to continue doing daily missions has been a major let done for players.

Idk, i keep finding matches in EU and NA regions most of the time and these are usually full. If the issue is finding matches, i'd advocate for DE to provide ways to make that easier, fixing the mode (bugs, balance, rewards, etc) and start promoting it instead of taking away reasons to play it.

4 hours ago, Nanology said:

Since Steel Path is a challenge under Teshin why not [...]

[...] let Teshin trade conclave standing for steel essence? At least that's a reward that can be turned into useful stuff (kuva) unlike conclave standing which eventually becomes nothing but 6 relic packs that won't even be used since the new prime stuff isn't being added to conclave.

4 hours ago, krc473 said:

My only objection to your suggestion is the "playing Conclave" bit. If DE wont do anything to actually fix the mode(s) nothing should be exclusive to them.

Just an opinion, man. In mine if DE won't do anything to fix stuff or encourage people to play it, the least they can do is to keep the rare fruit in that mode for people braving the thorn.

[Nanology]

Maybe more people are playing it now, but around a year ago I couldn't find a match for the life of me, so had to add players to friend list and try to sync up our games.

[(PSN)Malivolus-]

Hey I'm the YouTuber you left a comment on Conclave recently. Just wanted ya to know I read this. I'll be following up with some comments on this thread soon.

[----Legacy----]

8 hours ago, Nanology said:

What are your thoughts tenno? 

The entire community is quite toxic towards pvp players by doing its best to prevent DE from improving conclave and even advocating for its removal. With that in mind, i'm okay with DE letting conclave players at least have something for themeselves.

[krc473]

6 hours ago, Stormdragon said:

Idk, i keep finding matches in EU and NA regions most of the time and these are usually full

It’s not so easy in other regions. I haven’t found one in OCE/Asia this year. I haven’t looked everyday or anything, but many times.

6 hours ago, Stormdragon said:

In mine if DE won't do anything to fix stuff or encourage people to play it, the least they can do is to keep the rare fruit in that mode for people braving the thorn.

If DE won’t fix the mode or encourage people to play it they shouldn’t expect people to care about the mode. Locking interesting things behind a mode you accept most people have no interest in is a pretty bad decision.

 

DE needs a team dedicated to Conclave if it’s ever going to work. Until they can do that nothing should be exclusive to it. I get people are against Conclave “just because”, but it’s not like DE seem to care about the mode.

[Stormdragon]

19 hours ago, krc473 said:

It’s not so easy in other regions. I haven’t found one in OCE/Asia this year. I haven’t looked everyday or anything, but many times.

It wouldn't be an issue with match finding tools, but the current RNG matchmaking has 48 different discrete player pools (6 regions × 4 × game modes × 2 "tiers") where the only way to navigate them all is manually going to the game's settings and even then the ping limiter can prevent you from being put in an ongoing match with available spots.

Also, having a YT video encouraging people to exploit the flaws of the current RNG matchmaking system in order to get conclave standing without ever having to actually play against other people looking for matches only made things easier, specially coming from Porphi, a content creator with a channel based mainly on "Fashionframe" who was popular enough to be part of the already deceased partner program and a chat mod where both got away with it unpunished just by hiding the video (it's still there for anyone with the link).

19 hours ago, krc473 said:

If DE won’t fix the mode or encourage people to play it they shouldn’t expect people to care about the mode. Locking interesting things behind a mode you accept most people have no interest in is a pretty bad decision.

It's not worse than simply giving in to requests and taking away the few reasons why people may get the final push to play it by putting the rewards behind an easier grind. At least this way people may still give the mode and try and perhaps stay if they like it while otherwise players are obviously gonna take the easy way and never even play the mode in the first place, making it even harder for others to find matches. Let' not forget that warframe has reached a point where it seems to be all about finding the path of least resistance to get practically anything one may want.

19 hours ago, krc473 said:

DE needs a team dedicated to Conclave if it’s ever going to work. Until they can do that nothing should be exclusive to it. I get people are against Conclave “just because”, but it’s not like DE seem to care about the mode.

Sure! But then even 1 person would be enough as long as he/she knows what to do based on feedback (this includes telling what makes sense or what doesn't) and has working on conclave fixes to balance, bugs, etc; as a priority and can even be allowed to work on pve related stuff until pvp related issues pop up again.

@[DE]joebuckused to be that person back in the day (i've read on some interviews that he's the one behind developing neat mechanics like dual wielding with glaives or cool weapons concepts like the larkspur) and would get help from @[DE]Saskeand @[DE]Marcus to for bugfixing while being in touch in the community (they even used to ask us for help to replicate bugs in the discord in order to have an easier time fixing them).

But now we are in a weird spot where weapons like the Telos Boltace have been bugged for nearly a year (since the old blood dropped) making it mindless enough to be amongst the most used weapons by anyone who wants nothing but easy standing and allows it to take away the interest of many players who want to play legit but can't counter this one because of the bug; and on the other hand, Inaros Prime was enabled for conclave with balanced stats but then was disabled for no reason along the Karyst prime (which was just a bit too powerful but not nearly as dumb as Telos Boltace), so there is indeed someone looking at conclave stuff but taking some really weird decisions and letting the dirty dishes pile up while throwing away the clean ones.

[krc473]

5 minutes ago, Stormdragon said:

It's not worse than simply giving in to requests and taking away the few reasons why people may get the final push to play it by putting the rewards behind an easier grind. At least this way people may still give the mode and try and perhaps stay if they like it while otherwise players are obviously gonna take the easy way and never even play the mode in the first place, making it even harder for others to find matches

The simple issue is that the vast majority of people won’t stay. I played it to farm the Syandana and other things that I wanted. I was having a sufficient amount of fun doing it, so I kept going with it. But the matchmaking let that down - I don’t like waiting longer than a couple of games will last to find a match. DE has to get the matchmaking sorted before even attempting to fix the mode.

• If the mode doesn’t stand on its own then DE needs to do something about it. The Syandana is nice, but ruined by the requirements to play many conclave matches each week. This wasn’t advertised on it last time I looked at it. Try telling people about the requirements, they immediately decide not to waste their time getting it.

9 minutes ago, Stormdragon said:

Let' not forget that warframe has reached a point where it seems to be all about finding the path of least resistance to get practically anything one may want.

Let’s not forget that DE also likes to take the easiest path to fix things too. Making conclave a popular and accessible game mode is going to be a large amount of work. Changing the acquisition method and how the flames get ignited is really easy. You also have to consider that when something gets left in a bad way for a very long time you need to come up with something to bait people into playing it. So we would need an event with decent rewards. And the event would have to be much better done than the previous “get a kill then AFK” ones.

[Stormdragon]

5 minutes ago, krc473 said:

The simple issue is that the vast majority of people won’t stay.

It makes sense when the vast majority is used to mind numbing gameplay and tends to complain when anything that requires a decent amount of engagement to be beaten is added. 

5 minutes ago, krc473 said:

I played it to farm the Syandana and other things that I wanted. I was having a sufficient amount of fun doing it, so I kept going with it. But the matchmaking let that down - I don’t like waiting longer than a couple of games will last to find a match. DE has to get the matchmaking sorted before even attempting to fix the mode.

Totally agree, and matchmaking fixes could even be used to improve the PvE experience, specially for people who wants to play out of the meta lootcaves or wants to go into other less popular modes.

5 minutes ago, krc473 said:

• If the mode doesn’t stand on its own then DE needs to do something about it. The Syandana is nice, but ruined by the requirements to play many conclave matches each week. This wasn’t advertised on it last time I looked at it. Try telling people about the requirements, they immediately decide not to waste their time getting it.

"Ruined" is just subjective, i like mine with either 2 or 3 levels lit since otherwise it covers too much screen and getting the 4th one for playing what i like "ruins" it to me.

Also, the requirement is literally put on its description before claiming it:

People not reading descriptions of what they are about to buy is a completely different issue.

5 minutes ago, krc473 said:

Let’s not forget that DE also likes to take the easiest path to fix things too. Making conclave a popular and accessible game mode is going to be a large amount of work. Changing the acquisition method and how the flames get ignited is really easy.

Then we have the entire talk about return of investment where, if done right (which being honest is a huge "if"), adds replayable content with low maintenance requirement, something cool to keep players engaged even during the so called "content droughts" that tend to appear in the forums as soon as people starts getting done with new updates which is normally a couple of weeks after their release (one of the reasons why the content's life gets artificially extended through layered timegates and awfully low drop chances).

The hardest part would probably be coming up with a mode that keeps warframe's core while keeping it as casual friendly as possible, then balancing for it and recycling whatever asset is required for it. Something like the old opticor variant where everyone had a slightly faster opticor with enough damage to instakill anyone, 100HP and 0.9 mobility regardless of the frame with mods, powers and passives disabled comes to mind as a good and low effort start.

5 minutes ago, krc473 said:

You also have to consider that when something gets left in a bad way for a very long time you need to come up with something to bait people into playing it.

Yeah, however, then there are players who show interest on seeing DE develop pvp on warframe (which are usually met with a very loud part of the community that's completely against it by any means)

5 minutes ago, krc473 said:

So we would need an event with decent rewards. And the event would have to be much better done than the previous “get a kill then AFK” ones.

To be fair, seeing people go AFK in what were intended to be fun seasonal events just because they were reluctant to play part of the game was just an early sign of where is the community taking the game atm. I see no difference between the behavior of players back then and the current Steel Essence farming meta since both show the community's unwillingness to actually engage with warframe's content and how this gets exacerbated by DE using low drop rates as an artificial way to extend the life of PvE updates. 

[Nanology]

On 2020-09-12 at 11:26 AM, (PS4)Hachiro-20 said:

Hey I'm the YouTuber you left a comment on Conclave recently. Just wanted ya to know I read this. I'll be following up with some comments on this thread soon.

Awesome Thanks!

[Neuroszima]

On 2020-09-13 at 7:19 PM, krc473 said:

The simple issue is that the vast majority of people won’t stay. I played it to farm the Syandana and other things that I wanted. I was having a sufficient amount of fun doing it, so I kept going with it. But the matchmaking let that down - I don’t like waiting longer than a couple of games will last to find a match. DE has to get the matchmaking sorted before even attempting to fix the mode.

• If the mode doesn’t stand on its own then DE needs to do something about it. The Syandana is nice, but ruined by the requirements to play many conclave matches each week. This wasn’t advertised on it last time I looked at it. Try telling people about the requirements, they immediately decide not to waste their time getting it.

Let’s not forget that DE also likes to take the easiest path to fix things too. Making conclave a popular and accessible game mode is going to be a large amount of work. Changing the acquisition method and how the flames get ignited is really easy. You also have to consider that when something gets left in a bad way for a very long time you need to come up with something to bait people into playing it. So we would need an event with decent rewards. And the event would have to be much better done than the previous “get a kill then AFK” ones.

The problem i see here is word "farm". It at start indicates you wont ever stay in this mode. Why should anyone care to get this reward public if you get it by farming regardless of it being standing gated or not? This is work for the devs to touch this mode, and by logic of some people we dont want that. The best decision i can see DE could do is just improve the mode for the players that enjoy it, or remove it completely. There will propably be a lot of people saying the same arguments we seen. That there were more players playing raids. That lunaro is Rocket League, and so on.

 

The problem with raids and with conclave was/is that those content have in common is that those require brain at start (just brain in terms of raids, in conc it is realllly long time to get mechanics on decent level as well) to do, and that you might lose by not figuring out the mechanics of the raid or not being proficient at movement/aiming in conc. People voted for the raids removal because they didnt even want to engage with it. They were, are, and still will engage in mindnumbing tasks to do daily missions, will pick 2M red crit Khora builds, or other things on that matter. And when they join conc/raids with their gear (even though conc can be done with excal/braton, and usually when starting raid people requested, like nekros for new players with some decent primary to oneshot things) they expect to onetap the opposision wherever they are. But thats not always the right way to go.

 

To defend those people, i can say, what propably all the people know at start of the game. That there is no #€%£ing explaination of what you exactly trying to achieve in pvp. Is it amounts of kills? What is oro? Why those @%&$ing pro dudes are so fast/nimble? How that guy shoots 3 points in one goal in lunaro while i am only doing 1 at time? There is literally nothing on how to improve your mechanics, and when those are so low, that you lose 0-25 in 1v1 matches, it is way too much to ask for a new player to stay. It is so discouraging, especially, as Stormdragon mentioned, that there are people that actively cheese and we have no way to tell devs to just disable the problematic wepons, because problems in this mode are swept under the rug. The other side of the medal being pro players that you have 0.1% chance kill, that are playing 2+ years of this mode.

 

One point in all of this is curious, and that is the description of the item. It should be stated that the upkeep cost is continuous, and rules of it have to be clear. Why anyone expects this reward to be good, while after farming like 2 months for it, or 3 weeks up to a month if one cheese absolutely all quests and max out? I get it that this thing is "free", you dont have to spend plat/real buck to get it. But the result for PvE players most of the time is that "This is not what i farmed for" meme. They see the upkeep cost and they rant on forums that pvp reward should not be tied to pvp, and "insert new type of mechanic here". Others just put it on the shelf, never to be worn after they obtain it.

[PollexMessier]

I would love this, and having the flames be tied to steel path completion% would be an additional incentive to clear all the nodes

[Mattoropael]

On 2020-09-13 at 2:42 AM, ----Legacy---- said:

The entire community is quite toxic towards pvp players by doing its best to prevent DE from improving conclave and even advocating for its removal. With that in mind, i'm okay with DE letting conclave players at least have something for themeselves.

I'm of the opposite opinion: If nothing is exclusive to Conclave, most players won't give a #*!% to Conclave (positive or negative).

[VoidArkhangel]

I really can't understand those who want the celestia syandana being somewhat exclusive to conclave, anyway, I like OP idea but maybe if when you complete a number of missions the syandana light a fire so when you complete the entire star chart you have all the flames permanently lighted.

[----Legacy----]

1 hour ago, VoidArkhangel said:

I really can't understand those who want the celestia syandana being somewhat exclusive to conclave, anyway, I like OP idea but maybe if when you complete a number of missions the syandana light a fire so when you complete the entire star chart you have all the flames permanently lighted.

I can't understand the people who despises conclave but still wants cosmetics displaying its logo as a a way to show support for it.

If people want to have the conclave syandana and keep it lit, why not just play conclave instead of complaining just like any normal person would do? There would be more players so more chances to both, find matches and have these against players of a similar skill since conclave veterans would be a lot more dilluted between the active lobbies anyways.

[VoidArkhangel]

hace 1 hora, ----Legacy---- dijo:

I can't understand the people who despises conclave but still wants cosmetics displaying its logo as a a way to show support for it.

That's even weirder

hace 1 hora, ----Legacy---- dijo:

If people want to have the conclave syandana and keep it lit, why not just play conclave instead of complaining just like any normal person would do? There would be more players so more chances to both, find matches and have these against players of a similar skill since conclave veterans would be a lot more dilluted between the active lobbies anyways.

Speaking of myself, I try to avoid PvP things cuz Im pretty laggy all the time, Im kinda burnt because all the matches I had to go through with that lag weren't funny and the gamemodes are not attractive (again, Im speaking of my case), not asking for a battle royale but if they implement a gamemode like supremacy (SWBF2) or dominion (For Honor) sure I will play conclave more often and wont ask for the celestia syandana to be out of the conclave and even so, the syandana can stay on the conclave but make the fires permanent c'mon Im not asking you to take off an arm Im asking for a button to turn off and on the lights of a cape, what am I taking away from the pvp players? their dignity? the only good thing they have in the game is a syandana that says "I played conclave this week"? even more, most of the players I played conclave with don't even care about the syandana.

Im sorry but the only thing I see is the conclave players who don't want anyone touches that syandana saying "It is crap but is my crap"

[AllFiery]

I'd prefer it if the Syandana lights up depending on your current rank in the conclave, just put it as a rank 0 reward and then it lights up as you go. And while we're at it, maybe add some armor sets that has a similar functionality because last time I checked, I don't see any chest, shoulder, leg pieces that flares.

[----Legacy----]

21 hours ago, VoidArkhangel said:

Speaking of myself, I try to avoid PvP things cuz Im pretty laggy all the time, Im kinda burnt because all the matches I had to go through with that lag weren't funny and the gamemodes are not attractive (again, Im speaking of my case), not asking for a battle royale but if they implement a gamemode like supremacy (SWBF2) or dominion (For Honor) sure I will play conclave more often

Fair enough, better modes would do a lot to improve the pvp side of warframe. Same for a full balance pass to the gear available on it and some matchmaking tools.

21 hours ago, VoidArkhangel said:

Im not asking you to take off an arm Im asking for a button to turn off and on the lights of a cape

You're not being asked to take off an arm to turn on the lights either. You're literally being told that if you play the game you get the flames and that's as hard to understand as it gets.

21 hours ago, VoidArkhangel said:

Im sorry but the only thing I see is the conclave players who don't want anyone touches that syandana saying "It is crap but is my crap"

Odd, that's the only thing i see from pve players who want the syandana permanently lit "it's crap, but i grinded (once) for it so it's my crap and i want it on fire regardless of what people who enjoy the mode want"

16 hours ago, AllFiery said:

I'd prefer it if the Syandana lights up depending on your current rank in the conclave, just put it as a rank 0 reward and then it lights up as you go. And while we're at it, maybe add some armor sets that has a similar functionality because last time I checked, I don't see any chest, shoulder, leg pieces that flares.

Some of us don't like it with all 4 tails and we would get totally screwed if DE went that way.

[VoidArkhangel]

hace 12 horas, ----Legacy---- dijo:

You're not being asked to take off an arm to turn on the lights either. You're literally being told that if you play the game you get the flames and that's as hard to understand as it gets.

Odd, that's the only thing i see from pve players who want the syandana permanently lit "it's crap, but i grinded (once) for it so it's my crap and i want it on fire regardless of what people who enjoy the mode want"

In my case again is more like "I grinded once cuz I didn't know you can grind it twice, I light it a few times and it was both boring and unpleasant so I wont come back to that any time soon" I don't want a reward for grinding it wich is odd, just imagine getting the reward you want after investing time, I want the crap I just farmed at least looks similar to what I was aiming to get.

And what does the people who enjoy that mode want? (about the celesia syandana)

[Nanology]

Wow I wasn't expecting this to get so much attention!😃

[(PSN)II2j-ZII]

No. that's not what it's for.

[Sevek7]

Just give the forever fully lit Celestia Syandana to the GrindLords already. Hell, give them all the Conclave skins for free. Anything to stop this "I'm forced to play something I don't like because I can't stand the thought of not owning every possible item, and I simply cannot accept one single item rewarding continued play in a game-mode I don't like"

[(PSN)Pragmatic_2015]

I'm a firm believer in straight forward simple solutions to every problem. 

Index/Rathuum & Steel Path should give conclave standing. My reason is that Index/Rathuum are arena style game types with bots and that the Conclave sigil is always on the screen behind the scores at end of match. Steel Path is simple, it's Teshin's guild. And from a technical standpoint it should be easy to implement, so no getting stuck on certification standards of console companies.

On 2020-09-20 at 2:51 PM, PollexMessier said:

I would love this, and having the flames be tied to steel path completion% would be an additional incentive to clear all the nodes

Now that is a damn fine idea, it needs to be a thing. But it's the sort of thing that comes along with.

And for the record, I saw this post in a YT Video. Decided to kick in my 2 cents.