Jump to content

I think DE should stop with the new updates


Recommended Posts

Obviously DE needs both a team dedicated to making new content and one for revisiting and polishing the old content. Arguably they are doing just that, because we are getting new shinies as well as revisions.

Now that said, the old content team needs serious strengthening and a solid road map. Sure, new content bumps up player numbers, but I'm willing to bet all of my platinum those are mostly returning players and very few new ones.

Having started in January I can tell you this: Warframe is a sprawling, disjointed and downright intimidating behemoth of a game, and it offers no guidance whatsoever to navigate it. Now, this was what I was looking for, something to sink my teeth in, but I'm also willing to bet the vast majority of those downloading it to check it out bounce off really fast. Retention until the point the game sells itself enough to make those new players buy platinum seems to me fairly low.

The path a new player takes can do with a fair amount of additional signposts, explanations and smoothening. Basic tools such as pets, sentinels, the bread and butter mods, archwings, amps and the like need to be more accessible. The time needed before you can change 'solo' to 'public' and meaningfully participate is by now pretty extended...

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Read it again, the word "today" usually implies a certain time frame that doesn't refer to a time that is "months ago". You can do the whole chest beating thing some more if you want to, but that won't change the obvious disparity between what they asked for and what you are trying to pull. 

So.... You responded to that with:

4 hours ago, (PS4)DoctorWho_90250 said:

 

HAHAHAHA. Pathetic. No, it has nothing to do with my internet. See, I knew you'd pull the "it's a you problem". 

DE makes buggy, glitchy game, and you lot jump through hoop after hoop to defend them. 

Oh, and by the way, I'm not some monkey boy. You asked for evidence, I provided two videos, and you are still not satisfied and you're blaming me, not the game. I'm not going to jump through hoops just so you can say, "see, this is your fault" on the off chance I don't encounter a bug or glitch. Two videos and you still can't accept that Railjack is buggy and glitchy. Pathetic. 

Hey, if DE wants me to test it, fine, they'd just have to pay me to do so. Pay me and I'll test it again. I mean, what's wrong with that right? You want me to beta test just for you. I mean, heck, you're going to reject and wave away whatever issues I encounter anyway so then what's the point of even trying to do anything for either of you. 

I don't respect players who defend DE at every turn, and no, I'm not the type to bash them at every turn so don't even try playing that card. 

Despite this being posted several hours before your response:

7 hours ago, 844448 said:

I believe not every single report needs a reply because I reported a double scanning bug and it's fixed without any reply

For your video though, it looks very similar to my time playing warframe using wi-fi where credits flying at me and not collected at all, unable to interact and such. Now I use mobile data that gives way better experience than wi-fi so my suspicion is wi-fi connection with not so powerful host connection since the upload speed is pretty slow for that compared to my 4G mobile data

Also, can you give a video of this month? May is 4 months behind already so it may be polished by now

 

Seriously Doc, if you can't figure out that "today" and "months ago" aren't the same, that's on you. Just like if you can't figure out that having a potato internet connection might make a difference to game play. 🤷‍♂️

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

That's the work of the artist where many of these structures are already in Plains of Eidolons. 

The concept is very easy to grasp. PoE is barren. It requires more of these structures, more geographic features like canyons and more caves with more complexity. The pattern is this: We are seeing a development of PoE 1.0, PoE 2.0 called Fortuna and PoE 3.0 called Heart of Deimos. Yes, DE is getting better at the game but their ambition exceeded their talent. 

That's almost always the case with concept art. In that you're restricted only by the artistic imagination of the person making the still image, when in reality what you make is limited by the technology, game engine, man hours, file sizes, dynamic lighting engine, etc. It's like the artist's rendering type mock ups that architects produce all of the time. They may look really fancy, but after a while you'll start to recognize that there are elements that will be left out, or need to be changed in order to create something that will actually be viable. 

 

It's ironic that you don't grasp the difference between the initial fantasy and the product , because you also don't see why the Tennocon reveal which is an in game version of the concept art, is different from what we got. 

 

4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

They are not the best world crafting developers out there. Their logic seems contradictory and the lore in itself doesn't make sense. The story says one thing and the game gives you an opposite impression. Do we have marauders doing excavation or do we have a full fledged military force trying to occupy the digging sites? 

I keep saying that you might wanna read the lore for that one. The lore makes it pretty clear that they can't just enter the plains in force. 

4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

This is why I think DE must stop for awhile with the updates and focus on the material we have. Fostering these open world arenas is the PRESENTATION OF THE GAME. Many players that are low MR want to meander, discover and throw themselves into these adventures. If the open worlds sucks ass hard then their retention will be in a peril. Our clan is kicking four or five members daily because they exceed the inactivity of 14 days. They literally abandon the game for months if not years. Moon clans gives you a good radiography of what is going on in the game. 

See? 

Like I showed they reworked it last year and are still working on it this year. That's while still producing other content in the mean time. Halting production would hurt the company, and the audience. 

4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

But you see, common sense tells anyone that there is a tower at the other side. And someone with binoculars can see globes and people collecting food out of these bone structures. 

The lore may explain this but it must be EXPLICITLY shown. What I see are magic doors opening and closing where Grineer ignores every time while four warframes enters the occupied site. Sorry but that makes zero sense in terms of game design. 

I know that Warframe is a concocting fantasy on steroid and cocaine. It's a video game, it is suppose to NOT make sense with reality. However some reality factors INCREASES the level of immersion. 

This is why DE should stop for awhile with the updates working with these corners on the game. 

Then their military is the worst. They can't even fight for themselves. Imagine if the sentient decides to destroy them. It will take just days until the military is fully liquidated by sentient forces. 

The lore makes it absolutely clear. Remember that the sentiments themselves couldn't overcome the shields that the tower created. The Unum was capable of totally disabling ships still in orbit. Why do you think that the Grineer infantry would be able to simply bypass the security? Heck you can't even pass through the shields without glitches, and if the doors are so simple to bypass, why do you end up stuck and waiting for one to open to go through? 

Seriously, go ahead and just read the lore. 

4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Decima engine and Evolution engine, yes. 

Evolution engine sucks, I know. But DE can't improve it fast enough to meet the current standards. Hence this is why DE must take a break releasing updates. Their engine needs a hell lot of work. 

Yes it does, but halting all work in the meantime is a recipe for disaster. 

4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Yes, memory allocation, pipe lining, online connection, memory streaming, model swapping, far off distance, level of detail. 

Yes I know. 

Again this proves that DE must update their engine so they meet the next gen standard. We don't want a CELL PHONE GAME when the game is aimed at PC and next gen consoles. How they do that? Taking a pause fixing their infrastructure of the game. 

See directly above. 

4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

We will not go away. We will continue playing. We all understand that the game requires a lot of serious infrastructure updating. 

LOL. Yes we will go away. Take a look at the steam numbers, we get a spike when new content releases and a gradual decline after. Every. Single. Time. 

4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

People will compare with what is available in the market. 

That is the crude and rude reality of it. 

It's too little. Sorry. 

DE exceeded their capabilities. They can't do both things at the same time. They rather take time updating or take time launching incomplete releases. At least HoD went on the right direction despite all the bugs in it. Believe me there are lots of bugs in HoD. At least the whole thing gives three good weapons, a mech and an egg plant for Warframe ability switching. 

Mausolon, Sepulcrum, Trumna and the Necramech gave a complete new angle to the game. Now we can REVISIT the Eidolons, Profit Taker, Exploiter Orb with our new weapons. See why a full revision of these places, Fortuna and PoE is important? 

This is why DE MUST stop with the new content and polish the game we had by finishing all these content promised. 

 

Look at what you said, "HOD brought us new stuff, and that is good," followed by "this is why they need to stop bringing us new stuff". Seriously, that's a major disconnect from reality. 

4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

 

See? You literally justified my argument right here. Thank you. 

Should I take mediocrity as a standard when there are other great games out there? Why should I stay here playing War Frame if Cyberpunk provides me what I want. Why should I stay here if Horizon Zero Forbidden west provides me what I want? Why should I invest time in this game if I can't find what I want? 

See why is important that I GET WHAT I WANT IN THIS GAME? If not I'll simply grab my luggage and play other games. Simple as that. 

So the community wants mediocrity? Sorry but I doubt it. The community manifested their concern on these subjects. Maybe if you have low standards that counts on you. Don't expect other people have low standards when they play games. 

Again look at the steam numbers. People join, people leave, people come back. Happens all the time, for every game that runs for a long time. The community wants new stuff, "content drought" is a frequent complaint. 

 

4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

 THE CROWD WANTS QUALITY. 

Look at this exact SAME THREAD. It answers this claim exactly. People want quality in CONTENT NOT NEW CRAPPY CONTENT. 

see?

 

No, we want new stuff. Seriously. You can find countless threads about people wanting new stuff. Yes we'd love to have stuff polished as well, but that's exactly what DE is already doing, constantly. But folks don't read the patch notes. Look at Doc's comments about Railjack being buggy in the past. Guess what? They've fixed that up so much since release that in my runs I almost never notice anything glitching. But Doc is still whining and posting videos from months ago. 

4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

 

They showed a simulation not the material they where working on. 

It WAS FALSE ADVERTISEMENT with what they really had. 

One thing is something not complete and the other thing is UNPLAYABLE CONTENT. 

Railjack was launched in a deep unplayable status. 

Oh Jebas. You ever played duck hunt on the NES? Go do a little research about how that worked when the game was originally launched in Japan. Or do a little research into the iPhone reveal that Steve Jobs did way back when. What they showed was someone playing in a developer version of the game with content that they clearly stated wasn't complete and still needed a lot of work. 

Also I don't know about you but a lot of people were playing Railjack when it released in that "unplayable" state. Now that it's working pretty well, there are hardly any players from what I can see. Why? Because it's not new anymore. 

4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

So they need four years to end Railjack properly? Again this shows that DE exceeded their capabilities. 

End? Who knows. 

4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

We are giving them time to polish their game because we want QUALITY OF LIFE IN THE GAME. We can wait for content a year, since there will be lots of games that will keep us busy while DE fix their game. 

You speaking French? All that "Oui/we" you have going on? The numbers show that you are flat out wrong. 

4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

The lore itself requires a lot of fixing. Hence this is why DE needs some polishing what they have now up to this point. 

That description perfectly applies to DE. They are creating continent islands of content that are incomplete and uninteresting. 

Hence DE needs time to stop producing content. They should fix the content they already released. 

The lore requires reading. If you don’t know what it says (and you obviously don't), ain't no amount of polishing that will help you. "Content islands" is a silly catchphrase that's popular amongst people who clearly don't grasp why it doesn't apply to the things they're trying to apply it to. 

Repeating the same phrase doesn't make it any more ridiculous. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to see them revisit some of the older systems for their updates, but a complete drought I'd be opposed to. I really enjoyed the last Railjack updates and QoL stuff, but want to see a new planet/enemies get added to the map. Where's Alad V's fleet of Corpus ships? Where's an Infested zone with plagued starfighters? (This would have been awesome for Deimos, actually)

 

There's definitely some love needed for stuff like the Conclave and Silmaris faction grinds, and balancing for stuff like Vox Solaris parts. Overall, they've been great with hotfixing the worst of the bugs, but there's plenty of frustrating things still hanging around. As for the proposed < delivered, most concept designs are never 100% at the end result. I'm still enjoying and having fun.

Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

That's almost always the case with concept art. In that you're restricted only by the artistic imagination of the person making the still image, when in reality what you make is limited by the technology, game engine, man hours, file sizes, dynamic lighting engine, etc. It's like the artist's rendering type mock ups that architects produce all of the time. They may look really fancy, but after a while you'll start to recognize that there are elements that will be left out, or need to be changed in order to create something that will actually be viable. 

My field of education is architecture, mathematics and physics. 

Being brief with what you wrote here. Architects produces a description about space. We describe a spatial narrative with the given program in our subject of design. We do not get paid for physical models, 3D models, renderings or architectural plans. We get paid because of our thinking. We do not get paid for drawings or sequential animations. Architects produces a set of instructions for the construction of a physical model at a human scale. We do not deal with decorations, ornamentation, renderings or artistic interpretations of the image. We deal with the logic of space. 

You are outclassed here. You are not equipped for a discussion of this magnitude. Let us stay in the field of video games. Science is not your common way of life. The word 'fancy' has no meaning in any description. You need to be accurate with your presentation. 

Let us return to the discussion of the game. Such subjects belongs to other forums and public who is related on such fields. 

You are deviating the conversation without paying attention to the subject. The subject is quite simple, Plains of Eidolons is the first template and archetype where DE essays their attempt of adding the errands of grinding in a systematic way. Fishing, mining, resource collection and bounties in a lore that is progressively disclosed when the player advances. The same format was exactly repeated in Fortuna and it converged with fine adjustments in Heart of Deimos. DE repeated the same construction three times doing exactly the same changing characters, places and assets. The concept is invariant throughout these three experiences. 

There is no evolution on mission design, AI behavior or task development. The three open tiles feels the same. It was a copy and paste of the same template with different locations. 

 

32 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

 

It's ironic that you don't grasp the difference between the initial fantasy and the product , because you also don't see why the Tennocon reveal which is an in game version of the concept art, is different from what we got. 

The phrase you are looking for here is initial conception not initial fantasy. You are not proof reading your own generated content. 

1. Conceptual presentation is not proof of concept. 

2. Well experienced developers shows material that they are able to produce. DE can't produce the material they showed in their simulation. This is the case when the ambition  of a game developer exceeds their talent and capabilities.

3. DE constructed the models but the assembly and the game play was premature for the case of Rail Jack. 

32 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I keep saying that you might wanna read the lore for that one. The lore makes it pretty clear that they can't just enter the plains in force. 

 

Excuses. 

 

32 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Like I showed they reworked it last year and are still working on it this year. That's while still producing other content in the mean time. Halting production would hurt the company, and the audience. 

There is a long road between promises and delivery. When people asks for quality they ask for delivery and polish on what is shown. If a product is not ready to be shown, common sense says that such product requires polish. Showing a miss representation causes confusing and skepticism. 

Let me make a formal proof on the aforementioned. 

First disclosure of Railjack: 

Empyrean game play demo:

Reality: At release. 

Current game play in 2020:

 

This is a proof by historical examples. The ambition exceeded the capabilities and delivery. Even current graphics cards will be struggling hard with what DE shown on the first two SIMULATIONS, to be more precise, RENDERINGS. If we compare what DE shown in their simulation versus what we have now, anyone can say that the difference is like comparing a cell phone game with a game running in a PC with an Nvida Video Card 3080 GeForce RTX that will be launched in September 17, 2020

https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/1/21409953/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-specs-price-release-date-features

32 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

The lore makes it absolutely clear. Remember that the sentiments themselves couldn't overcome the shields that the tower created. The Unum was capable of totally disabling ships still in orbit. Why do you think that the Grineer infantry would be able to simply bypass the security? Heck you can't even pass through the shields without glitches, and if the doors are so simple to bypass, why do you end up stuck and waiting for one to open to go through? 

 

The lore suggests one thing but carriers, drop ships and gun ships perform worm whole transpositions for the spawning of Grineer soldiers. See how incongruous the lore content is with what the player sees in the battlefield?  

This is why DE needs time for the refinements of these details. Why they are important? Immersion. Gives authenticity and a genuine feeling to the game play. 

 

32 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

 

Yes it does, but halting all work in the meantime is a recipe for disaster. 

Refinement is never a recipe of disaster. What they have now IS a disaster. 

They have to organize themselves. Polish, delivery, presentation, consistency matters.

32 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

 LOL. Yes we will go away. Take a look at the steam numbers, we get a spike when new content releases and a gradual decline after. Every. Single. Time. 

 

The seriousness of this conversation ended here. Quoting steam numbers puts an end to your argument. 

 

32 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Look at what you said, "HOD brought us new stuff, and that is good," followed by "this is why they need to stop bringing us new stuff". Seriously, that's a major disconnect from reality. 

You miss understood that paragraph in the given context of this discussion. The new tools serves no purpose if there are no other places that we can test them. Why we should return to PoE and Fortuna with our new toys when such places are uninspiring. 

Why develop new content when the game is a mess of unfinished content islands. See the situation that DE got into? 

32 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Again look at the steam numbers. People join, people leave, people come back. Happens all the time, for every game that runs for a long time.

Steam numbers ARE NOT a source for proof. 

32 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

The community wants new stuff, "content drought" is a frequent complaint. 

You must speak for yourself. The existence of this thread defeats your claim stated here. 

 

32 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

No, we want new stuff. Seriously.

This thread says hi, again. 

 

I prefer to wait two years for good material than having the same rehearsal of bugs that we experience every 90 days. If there is a drought time, simply, play other games. 

32 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

 

You can find countless threads about people wanting new stuff. Yes we'd love to have stuff polished as well, but that's exactly what DE is already doing, constantly.

Are they? 

Railjack, Liches (New Blood), Scarlet Spear. Three fiascos in a row. 

 

32 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

But folks don't read the patch notes. Look at Doc's comments about Railjack being buggy in the past. Guess what? They've fixed that up so much since release that in my runs I almost never notice anything glitching. But Doc is still whining and posting videos from months ago. 

Are you sure? Let us review some history here. 

List of bugs in 2019 when the game released. This was classified and organized by a member here. 

This proves that the release was almost unplayable. Can you compare that with what DE promised? 

Let us recapitulate how many fixes where already given in Railljack. 

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Railjack/Patch_History

Up to this update DE continues patching Railjack because is full of bugs. Sorry but that shows how much work Railjack still requires. 

 

This is why DE needs to stop producing new content. They should dedicate time fixing the current given assets of the game. 

 

32 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You ever played duck hunt on the NES? Go do a little research about how that worked when the game was originally launched in Japan. Or do a little research into the iPhone reveal that Steve Jobs did way back when. What they showed was someone playing in a developer version of the game with content that they clearly stated wasn't complete and still needed a lot of work. 

 

Excuses. 

 

32 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Also I don't know about you but a lot of people were playing Railjack when it released in that "unplayable" state. Now that it's working pretty well, there are hardly any players from what I can see. Why? Because it's not new anymore. 

Only 2%.

 

32 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

 

You speaking French? All that "Oui/we" you have going on? The numbers show that you are flat out wrong. 

Where is the source of these numbers? 

32 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

The lore requires reading.

The game should be enough explaining the lore explicitly. 

32 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

If you don’t know what it says (and you obviously don't), ain't no amount of polishing that will help you. "Content islands" is a silly catchphrase that's popular amongst people who clearly don't grasp why it doesn't apply to the things they're trying to apply it to. 

Find a better discourse. That one ran its course. 

32 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Repeating the same phrase doesn't make it any more ridiculous. 

or anymore valid. 

 

True. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Counterpoint: DE should just stop accepting new players. You can't please every one, so they should close registration and just work on addressing all our complaints one by one until every one is happy and then open the doors again.

Yeah, that makes only slightly less sense than the 'no new content' plan.
Not only is new content what brings people into the game but for creative sorts it's what gets you caring about the work at all.

What DE needs is an editor someone who actually makes them do the craft and finish things and fight for the commas. Someone who will help them kill their darlings and their sacred calves.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

My field of education is architecture, mathematics and physics. 

Being brief with what you wrote here. Architects produces a description about space. We describe a spatial narrative with the given program in our subject of design. We do not get paid for physical models, 3D models, renderings or architectural plans. We get paid because of our thinking. We do not get paid for drawings or sequential animations. Architects produces a set of instructions for the construction of a physical model at a human scale. We do not deal with decorations, ornamentation, renderings or artistic interpretations of the image. We deal with the logic of space. 

Hop over to the department of a large architectural firm that does conceptual art to present to the clients. You will see people with degrees that are art based creating flights of fancy to sell what you are trained to produce. Looking closely you will probably see a lot of stuff which you will identify as impractical, I know that I have. If you don’t know that there are people who are definitely paid to provide such renderings, I'm sure that asking around will lead you to the correct door. 

6 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

You are outclassed here. You are not equipped for a discussion of this magnitude. Let us stay in the field of video games. Science is not your common way of life. The word 'fancy' has no meaning in any description. You need to be accurate with your presentation. 

Of course it does, because you are always going to be limited by the engine you are using, just like you are limited as an architect by the physical constraints of the materials available. NASA has flat out said that a space elevator is possible in theory, but it cannot be constructed using modern materials. 

6 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Let us return to the discussion of the game. Such subjects belongs to other forums and public who is related on such fields. 

You are deviating the conversation without paying attention to the subject. The subject is quite simple, Plains of Eidolons is the first template and archetype where DE essays their attempt of adding the errands of grinding in a systematic way. Fishing, mining, resource collection and bounties in a lore that is progressively disclosed when the player advances. The same format was exactly repeated in Fortuna and it converged with fine adjustments in Heart of Deimos. DE repeated the same construction three times doing exactly the same changing characters, places and assets. The concept is invariant throughout these three experiences. 

There is no evolution on mission design, AI behavior or task development. The three open tiles feels the same. It was a copy and paste of the same template with different locations. 

 

The current PoE is demonstrably vastly different from the original version, so your claim is objectively false. 

6 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

The phrase you are looking for here is initial conception not initial fantasy. You are not proof reading your own generated content. 

1. Conceptual presentation is not proof of concept. 

2. Well experienced developers shows material that they are able to produce. DE can't produce the material they showed in their simulation. This is the case when the ambition  of a game developer exceeds their talent and capabilities.

3. DE constructed the models but the assembly and the game play was premature for the case of Rail Jack. 

They told us that during the demonstration. Like with actual words. They said that there was a lot that didn't exist, that they couldn't make work even for that initial demonstration. It's not anyone else's fault that you don't pay attention to what's going on. 

 

6 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Excuses. 

 

There is a long road between promises and delivery. When people asks for quality they ask for delivery and polish on what is shown. If a product is not ready to be shown, common sense says that such product requires polish. Showing a miss representation causes confusing and skepticism. 

Let me make a formal proof on the aforementioned. 

First disclosure of Railjack: 

Empyrean game play demo:

Reality: At release. 

Current game play in 2020:

 

This is a proof by historical examples. The ambition exceeded the capabilities and delivery. Even current graphics cards will be struggling hard with what DE shown on the first two SIMULATIONS, to be more precise, RENDERINGS. If we compare what DE shown in their simulation versus what we have now, anyone can say that the difference is like comparing a cell phone game with a game running in a PC with an Nvida Video Card 3080 GeForce RTX that will be launched in September 17, 2020

https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/1/21409953/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-specs-price-release-date-features

 

You ever notice how certain cards excel at certain graphics tests, while performing badly elsewhere? Everyone knows that it's because it's easy to optimize stuff to run one specific thing in one specific way. This is why I play on a console, the hardware is a known constant, so the code can be optimised for the system. On PC using different cards, different drivers, different motherboards, different monitors, you're always going to have different results, because you can't optimize for every single possible combination. 

6 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

 

 

The lore suggests one thing but carriers, drop ships and gun ships perform worm whole transpositions for the spawning of Grineer soldiers. See how incongruous the lore content is with what the player sees in the battlefield?  

This is why DE needs time for the refinements of these details. Why they are important? Immersion. Gives authenticity and a genuine feeling to the game play. 

Nope because all of those are small, and troop numbers are limited. Why are you having difficulty grasping the difference? 

6 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

 

Refinement is never a recipe of disaster. What they have now IS a disaster. 

They have to organize themselves. Polish, delivery, presentation, consistency matters.

And that's why nobody is claiming that refining the game will be the problem, we're saying that not continuing to release new content will be fatal to the company. Again small matter of reading carefully and recognising what's there instead of making up your own narrative and arguing against that. 

 

6 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

The seriousness of this conversation ended here. Quoting steam numbers puts an end to your argument. 

Quote better ones then, and show that the trend isn't mirrored across the board. 

 

6 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

You miss understood that paragraph in the given context of this discussion. The new tools serves no purpose if there are no other places that we can test them. Why we should return to PoE and Fortuna with our new toys when such places are uninspiring. 

Why develop new content when the game is a mess of unfinished content islands. See the situation that DE got into? 

Because they updated PoE last year, the corpus ships this year, and they did jupiter during the Jovian Concord. All of which mean that your claims are nonsense. 

6 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Steam numbers ARE NOT a source for proof. 

You must speak for yourself. The existence of this thread defeats your claim stated here. 

 

This thread says hi, again. 

The dissenting voices on this thread also speak otherwise. And hi, again. 

6 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

 

I prefer to wait two years for good material than having the same rehearsal of bugs that we experience every 90 days. If there is a drought time, simply, play other games. 

Hint that is exactly what happens when they don't release new content. That's why that's a problem. You won't be playing because you don't want to play unpolished content, and everyone else won't be playing because they don't want to play the same old content. Congrats you just showed why the game would die. Think about it. 

6 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Are they? 

Railjack, Liches (New Blood), Scarlet Spear. Three fiascos in a row. 

 

 

Railjacks playable and has been massively fixed, liches got played a crapload as evidenced by the ubiquity of the Kuva weapons, and Scarlet Spear was great fun, especially for those of us who had well built Railjacks, so.... 

6 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

 

Are you sure? Let us review some history here. 

List of bugs in 2019 when the game released. This was classified and organized by a member here. 

This proves that the release was almost unplayable. Can you compare that with what DE promised? 

Let us recapitulate how many fixes where already given in Railljack. 

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Railjack/Patch_History

Up to this update DE continues patching Railjack because is full of bugs. Sorry but that shows how much work Railjack still requires. 

Nonsense, I played multiple runs last night for the nightwave crowd. I ran as host because I get a kick out of letting people use my ship, and seeing their reaction to having a proper Railjack at their disposal. So practical experience proves that you don't know what you are talking about. 

 

6 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

This is why DE needs to stop producing new content. They should dedicate time fixing the current given assets of the game. 

 

Nonsense, especially when it comes from people who refuse to play something in the first place because there were bugs on release. 

 

6 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Excuses. 

 

Only 2%.

 

Which is a crapload more than at current. Also where you get that number from, if it's steam you're going to have to wipe some egg off your face based on what you said above. 

6 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Where is the source of these numbers? 

The Steam concurrent player numbers. Duh. 

6 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

The game should be enough explaining the lore explicitly. 

They did. Reading helps. Avoiding reading it and arguing about whatever you made up to fill in the gaps, doesn't. 

6 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Find a better discourse. That one ran its course. 

or anymore valid. 

 

True. 

Seriously read the lore and stop thinking that a minority of the minority that makes a bit of noise is automatically making valid requests. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

*Snip* (read again the post above, links are included in the description)

DE needs a serious restructuring of their priorities. Tencent or Leyou has nothing to do with it. DE sends a lot of incomplete material that end up being unattended corners in the game hindering the top quality of the game. We've seen this for seven years and up to this day is still happening. The information was given on the previous post. 

 

But....

 

You can't stop with the keyboard mercenary armchair "last word" discussion and it seems that you lost control over yourself throughout the process. I can't help you with such circumstances. I can't convince someone who doesn't want to be convinced. I tried a constructive and generous approach giving details and examples. Your presentation and attitude chose a continuation of an endless circle of quotes making the forum unreadable to other users. You may have a different opinion on what people think, for me that is perfectly fine. That's fine, but you need to know when is enough. I decided to halt this conversation, we are not getting anywhere. People are not going to think like you do. They are not going to praise DE like you do. Somehow people have a different mindset than yours and for your surprise they don't share your expectations. 

I don't want to correct you or lecture you. Those are business that must run on your behalf. The information of what you wanted to know is given there in the links. The one who needs to be convinced is you. If you don't want to see other perspectives, that's perfectly fine. Tampering a thread with endless responses is an exercise of stubbornness. No one wins, no one looses. It's a game after all. I can't expect people think like me. I don't want people thinking like me. I tried to converse with facts and evidence on what happened. I can't pretend that people will be convinced for what is written on the board but at least the information was there. 

For stubbornness we don't get new mods, weapons or a better game. None of us gets a salary for it. I decided to write my contributions where DE reads them, not here and on the forums that matters. Here we have this space to enjoy other points of views, not to fight each other for just few words. 

Have the last word. It's all yours. 

 

Edited by Felsagger
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

DE needs a serious restructuring of their priorities. Tencent or Leyou has nothing to do with it. DE sends a lot of incomplete material that end up being unattended corners in the game hindering the top quality of the game. We've seen this for seven years and up to this day is still happening. The information was given on the previous post. 

What does Tencent or Leyou have to do with what we're discussing? That's a complete non sequitur.

 

26 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

But....

 

You can't stop with the keyboard mercenary armchair "last word" discussion and it seems that you lost control over yourself throughout the process. I can't help you with such circumstances. I can't convince someone who doesn't want to be convinced. I tried a constructive and generous approach giving details and examples. Your presentation and attitude chose a continuation of an endless circle of quotes making the forum unreadable to other users. You may have a different opinion on what people think, for me that is perfectly fine. That's fine, but you need to know when is enough. I decided to halt this conversation, we are not getting anywhere. People are not going to think like you do. They are not going to praise DE like you do. Somehow people have a different mindset than yours and for your surprise they don't share your expectations. 

Dude, who is a dude, pointing out that you're making demonstrably false claims isn't keyboard warfare. It doesn't really matter if you want to agree with me, but you can see the patch notes, they've definitely reworked old content, and continue to do so. PoE got a major overhaul last year, graphics and content. Corpus Ship and Grineer Gas City have also had major updates, again visual and content. Railjack has had serious work done on it since launch, and has had content that incorporates it added. None of that is debatable.

You can try to compare it to other games and say "why isn't it like this" but again, the game engine is different.

26 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

I don't want to correct you or lecture you. Those are business that must run on your behalf. The information of what you wanted to know is given there in the links. The one who needs to be convinced is you. If you don't want to see other perspectives, that's perfectly fine. Tampering a thread with endless responses is an exercise of stubbornness. No one wins, no one looses. It's a game after all. I can't expect people think like me. I don't want people thinking like me. I tried to converse with facts and evidence on what happened. I can't pretend that people will be convinced for what is written on the board but at least the information was there. 

Again, you were told that the numbers show a spike when new content is added and a measurable decline in the periods between. You tried to reject that out of hand but can't show anything to back your claims of "we'll all stick around and wait for them to fix it" while simultaneously saying stuff that reads as "I'd rather go do something else for a year while they fix the broken stuff". But that's exactly what would destroyt the game, not having a significant portion of it's players for a year.

26 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

For stubbornness we don't get new mods, weapons or a better game. None of us gets a salary for it. I decided to write my contributions where DE reads them, not here and on the forums that matters. Here we have this space to enjoy other points of views, not to fight each other for just few words. 

Have the last word. It's all yours. 

 

For stubborness we don't get new stuff? What the heck are you talking about. We just got a bunch of new weapons, new mods, new gear, new lore and a better game, and it's come not at the price of fixing old content, but in tandem with it. Have you somehow totally missed the events of the last couple of months?

That's as ridiculous as your complaint that the lore doesn't explain stuff, that the lore definitely explains to anyone who wants to read it, or the claim that its some sort of conspiracy that railjack wasn't in a complete state when shown in the Fortuna reveal, when they blatantly told us that there was a lot of stuff that wasn't ready in it and that a lot of stuff they wanted to have in it, couldn't yet be used because what we were seeing was in no way complete.

I tell you what, since you wan't to take a break while they fix stuff, maybe take the time to read some of the lore, and patch notes while you're not playing?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

On 2020-09-14 at 10:48 AM, DeccanTraps said:

 

What DE needs is an editor someone who actually makes them do the craft and finish things and fight for the commas. Someone who will help them kill their darlings and their sacred calves.

 

I've been thinking that game testing takes too much time for them. They have to play more their game so that many of these issues get resolved beforehand. Since the game is free and the EULA states that we are testers, of course they have green light those releases. 

Smart players wait about three month after once a big update happens. Right now Railjack is playable but I'm not sure if DE is interested concluding Railjack. The corpus faction is missing but due to the Pandemic their schedule changed. We don't know when Railjack will get a heavy revision. The same is happening for Duviri Paradox. 

I'll get into other games like Cyberpunk 77 and the PS5 games when the console launches. I'll put to rest Warframe for few years. A good hiatus always helps. 

 

Edited by Felsagger
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Considering I just completed an hour long survival and then the rewards screen only gave me my xp and none of my hour long grinded materials... I'd say we need an "Operation Health" there's lots of core bugs that have somehow survived for several years that have never been fixed. Most veteran players I used to play with have given up and been burned out, their biggest reason was constantly fighting bugs with the game. 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-09-12 at 1:56 PM, (PS4)ozgurozacik said:

When I say DE stops with the new updates I don't mean the game shouldn't be updated anymore, of course it should but what I mean is something like Rainbow6 operation health but on a much more bigger scale. What this means is that DE should stop adding new contents in to the game for like a year and in that time they should just focus on existing contents and making them the best that they can be.

There is so much content in the game that can be improved like railjack, liches, open worlds, archwings, ESO / SO, and many more. As we all know these contents are only subpar right now.

I know what I'm proposing isn't in the best interest of DE beacause they make more money when a new content is added to the game but I think taking a year off from new contents and just improving the old ones would be much better for this games longevity.

And improving the old contents doesn't necessarily mean not adding any new staff like when they are improving Fortuna they should also add the third orb, this counts as a new content and an improvement at the same time.

So what do you guys think? Can you guys live without new content for a year for the betterment of the game? 

It won't happen and you know it so quit being idealist for a second and return to the material realm .

As a company in the capitalist world the most important thing is your income . 
In order to make more income as a video game company you got to find a way to keep your actual customers attached to your product while at the same time continuing to drag new ones in ; this means constantly releasing new content .
If you stopped releasing updates as in expansions , gear , classes ( frames ) and such then the veterans would stop playing your game ( and thus investing into it by buying cosmetics or QoL items such as formas / potatos , ecc ) and your profit would decrease....and in case they find another game they like more than yours while you are keeping them without content then you are actually risking not to make them come back ( thus an even greater loss of profit ) .
At the same time new players cause your profit to keep on growing so the more you manage to keep pulling in the better...if you do not pull in any cause you are not releasing new content then your profit will grow stale and successively start dropping cause so will the playerbase by getting bored . 

You could argue that as a consequence the best case scenario is one in which you keep on releasing new content while at the same time releasing fixes for the content you actually have in the game but that means that while your game's quality will increase you'll also be releasing new stuff at a slower pace and thus make less profit than you would by just constantly pushing out new updates . 

The question doesn't become "could you live for an year without new content ?" but "Could DE live for an year without it ?" .

Talking about the game's longevity...there's a lot of things to take in consideration and if you look at the asian mmo scene in particular you'll see some games with amazing potential which got ruined by awfully greedy companies and which still somewhat keep on being alive even after 10+ years and making their companies profit despite the fact those companies clearly do not care about fixing them...so it already gets hard to say whether Warframe would or not keep on living and being a good source of income for its devs . Then again...you also have to take into consideration the fact that technology keeps on progressing and new engines , better models , graphics , possibilities of implementing new complex and cool mechanics ( ecc ) keep on being developed so it's still gonna be inevitable for the game to start showing signs of its age at some point ( though DE does take great care of Warframe in this regard ) . 

Sure , I would love to get more fixes even if that meant less content....I would love for the game to keep on working on its quality rather than become like those asian games...but I can't expect DE to stop releasing content for a whole year . It won't happen . I am sure they will still try to fix things as they go but they must keep on producing stuff as a company or it will only end up in economic losses .

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, SuperPancakes said:

Considering I just completed an hour long survival and then the rewards screen only gave me my xp and none of my hour long grinded materials... I'd say we need an "Operation Health" there's lots of core bugs that have somehow survived for several years that have never been fixed. Most veteran players I used to play with have given up and been burned out, their biggest reason was constantly fighting bugs with the game. 

perfect!!!
and that was just one example of a problem...
there are several others that bother you a lot and that wastes our time for nothing!
and I also don't see any problem,
spending a time (it doesn't have to be a year) to solving these old problems.  

Edited by S0NGA
I really like this game and I would love to see it better!! ;)
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

While I agree with the op's post, I also know that they can't spend time doing one big patch to fix everything.

However, they can release updates like the jovian concord for the rest of the planets which can be considered new content. 

These updates could also be used to add more depth to the main gameplay loop and make the path for new players less overwhelming. What I mean by this is that warframe tends to be very hard to recommend to new players when it can sometimes be too much to process and with no guidance on how to do stuff (the wiki should not be the only way for players to get instructions on how to do certain activities)

Additionally, an update on each planet overtime allows for more lore to be added/fleshed out, mechanics refined and expanded on, new enemy types, reworked boss fights with more interesting phases, parkour elements, secret cosmetic items or weapons and more reworks for warframes. The last part is mentioned since a warframe after a GOOD rework can feel like playing a completely new warframe (old vs new Wukong anyone?).

The updates could also allow for additions that can tie the open worlds to the main gameplay (deadlock protocol and freeing Fortuna residents for standing is a good start)

Finally, correct me if I'm wrong, but reception to the more recent updates before deimos where more negative when it was new content and more positive when it was remastered content. 

For the record, I would be all for remaster updates over new updates.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-09-12 at 7:56 AM, (PS4)ozgurozacik said:

So what do you guys think? Can you guys live without new content for a year for the betterment of the game? 

I would love that .... Really !!  The last update was very buggy, and it still is ...   :sadcry:

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-09-14 at 3:04 PM, Felsagger said:

This proves that the release was almost unplayable. Can you compare that with what DE promised? 

Let us recapitulate how many fixes where already given in Railljack. 

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Railjack/Patch_History

Up to this update DE continues patching Railjack because is full of bugs. Sorry but that shows how much work Railjack still requires. 

I can't help but think back to raids when I see this. They too were buggy as #*!% on release and kept getting patches. Eventually they got dropped from the game entirely because of both low playercount (see also: 2% of players have the railjack achievement) and because they were apparently too buggy to fix (only half true - while JV was ridiculous, LoR was fine).

I'd find it hilarious if Railjack got kicked out for the same reason.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...