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apperantly the most used rifle with 1 riv dispo but pitiful damage


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I agree. Primary weapons do struggle on TSP. That said, you can make them work, it just takes extra effort.

Since Fulmin was mentioned, I will use it as an example.

My build is Amalgam Serration, Point Strike, Vital Sense, Split Chamber, Primed Cryo Rounds, Heavy Caliber, Hunter Munitions and Riven (CC, CD, Toxin). It one or two shots most enemies on TSP, the rest needs HM to trigger, but die as well.

[I'm actually thinking about modding it for Corrosive instead for TSP.]

To further boost the damage, you can use Vigorous Swap, which works well with Fulmins automatic reload. I pair it with Gaze with Pax Charge, or switch to melee for a few hits so I never have to wait for Fulmin to reload. This enables me to get the mods 165% buff up at all times.

Another boost is in form of Arcane Rage that gives you 180% for headshots, which are easy with Fulmin thanks to the projectiles size.

Now, with Helminth, you can slap Roar, Smite or Shock (with Augments), and other similar abilities to further buff the damage.

All of the above combined will make Fulmin one shot nearly anything.

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10 minutes ago, (PS4)Sentiel said:

Primary weapons do struggle on TSP.

Right, primaries are terrible on the Steel Path. If only they had a mod that gave you a 30% chance to kill any enemy in one hit.

Please disregard the screams, and the flying Grineer:uhIWDee.png

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3 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

If DE start balancing the game around Steel Path, then Steel Path becomes normal mode while current normal mode becomes easy mode by Proxy of Steel Path becoming the new normal. 

The normal game is easy mode. So might as well make normal mode (steel path) more balanced

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Pretty well all guns are crap in SP unless you can get around defences. Radiation + toxin set up still smashes Corpus and corrosive is great for Grineer and Infested. Never bothered with viral and hunter munitions on my Fulmin and after a year of supposedly more powerful guns like the kuva series she's still my goto for high end stuff, no ammo worries and 2 excellent fire modes with very little drawbacks is a hard thing to give up 😂

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I mean... It's basically a Lanka with short range and no combo or scope bonus (which you wouldn't normally use because it's annoyingly high zoom!).

I use Fulmin for Necramech vaults with great success! Though I relied on Hunter Munitions on Kuva Ckakhurr for Grineer/Corrupted missions in Steel Path.

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4 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said:

fulmin really has nothing in common with lanka other than superficial similarities of electricity damage and having a projectile

fulmin can't headshot

You're mistaken. Here are the similarities:

  • Fulmin and Lanka have very high base damage (500 vs 525)
  • Fulmin and Lanka have good critical chance (30% vs 25%) and good critical damage (2x vs 2x).

They are practically the same in damage when ignoring the scope bonus and combo counter.  This is not superficial, these are the numbers and they are very similar.

 

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44 minutes ago, BDMblue said:

The normal game is easy mode. So might as well make normal mode (steel path) more balanced

No. If anything, they need to make TSP harder.

Edited by Jarriaga
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^^

these are really superficial similarities

apart from lanka being a sniper and fulmin having shotgun mechanics...

the builds for lanka and fulmin are different

lanka can be built for viral+elec, and fulmin can't

lanka is a good weapon for mag, fulmin isn't

lanka can be built for radiation for hunts, fulmin can't

lanka can be built for corrosive for raw damage against mid/high lvl enemies (including steel path), fulmin with corro hits a wall well before steel path (again, fulmin can't headshot, and lanka, not only can, but can slot [target acquired])

both lanka and fulmin can be built for viral-HM, but fulmin is only usable at with viral-HM

the better fire mode of fulmin is actually it's secondary, auto, mode which as even fewer similarities with lanka

Edited by Traubenzuckr
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2 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said:

^^

these are really superficial similarities

apart from lanka being a sniper and fulmin having shotgun mechanics...

the builds for lanka and fulmin are different

lanka can be built for viral+elec, and fulmin can't

lanka is a good weapon for mag, fulmin isn't

lanka can be built for radiation for hunts, fulmin can't

lanka can be built for corrosive for raw damage against mid/high lvl enemies (including steel path), fulmin with corro hits a wall well before steel path (again, fulmin can't headshot, and lanka, not only can, but can slot [target acquired])

both lanka and fulmin can be built for viral-HM, but fulmin is only usable at with viral-HM

the better fire mode of fulmin is actually it's secondary, auto, mode which as even fewer similarities with lanka

No they are not superficial similarities, they are quantitative similarities. The numbers are almost identical... this is indisputable. The damage is consequently very similar barring special sniper mechanics. What is disputable is trying to support your argument with specific builds/warframes/game modes in mind. Like, I don't really care about Mag? I just use the thing to shoot Necramechs to death (and it works very well for that).

The point is, nobody thinks Lanka is weak. Fulmin is not a weak weapon because it's similar to Lanka's damage output. In fact, it's easier to use than Lanka and produces similar damage output... and while like Lanka can equip Target Acquired (which nobody really uses because it doesn't really fit in practical builds), Fulmin can equip Heavy Caliber with no practical consequence to accuracy (which isn't so for Lanka's multishot... but if you're using it for something like Eidolons, it's still workable).

I mean... some of these points don't make any sense. I don't understand why you actually think Fulmin can't be built for Viral+Electric when it's innately doing electric damage and can easily fit Cold+Toxin mods. Is it that you actually think the Fulmin needs 100% status chance for a capped status effect? Honestly...

Read this again

52 minutes ago, nslay said:

I mean... It's basically a Lanka with short range and no combo or scope bonus (which you wouldn't normally use because it's annoyingly high zoom!).

I use Fulmin for Necramech vaults with great success! Though I relied on Hunter Munitions on Kuva Ckakhurr for Grineer/Corrupted missions in Steel Path.

Look at the numbers

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Lanka

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Fulmin

And actually tell us with a straight face that Fulmin is weak. It is anything but weak if you consider the damage numbers of Lanka strong.

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23 minutes ago, nslay said:

No they are not superficial similarities, they are quantitative similarities. The numbers are almost identical... this is indisputable. The damage is consequently very similar barring special sniper mechanics. What is disputable is trying to support your argument with specific builds/warframes/game modes in mind. Like, I don't really care about Mag? I just use the thing to shoot Necramechs to death (and it works very well for that).

Yes they are superficial similarities, because they are mere quantitative similarities. The functionalities are completely dissimilar... this is indisputable. The damage is consequently very different, having special sniper mechanics in mind and other mechanical differences. What is disputable is trying to support your argument without specific builds/warframes/game modes in mind. Like i don't really care about an abstract use case based on base stats, when every good gun fills a certain niche. 

etc.

your comparison of lanka and fulmin is the clowniest thing i've seen in my life

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2 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said:

Yes they are superficial similarities, because they are mere quantitative similarities. The functionalities are completely dissimilar... this is indisputable. The damage is consequently very different, having special sniper mechanics in mind and other mechanical differences. What is disputable is trying to support your argument without specific builds/warframes/game modes in mind. Like i don't really care about an abstract use case based on base stats, when every good gun fills a certain niche. 

etc.

your comparison of lanka and fulmin is the clowniest thing i've seen in my life

Look at this topic: "apperantly the most used rifle with 1 riv dispo but pitiful damage"

We were never talking about builds, game modes, warframe+weapon pairs, weapon usage (only you). We are talking about damage and Fulmin and Lanka have similar damage numbers where Lanka is widely considered "strong."

"Superficial" is talking about weapon usage, game modes, builds and warframe+weapon pairs in a thread about damage.

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If I did it with the Basmu, you can do it with the Fulmin, not everything has to oneshot things, if you enjoy the weapon mechanic then use the best combo against each faction to output the best dps for the weapon. Viral and Slash doesn't perform well against corpus to put an example, but a magnetic with toxic works like a charm. Warframe is all about using everything when enemies are tankier and hit harder, the "I use one weapon to clear everything" is the low level mindset and you are being punsihed because that mindset, not because the weapon itself.

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5 hours ago, (PS4)poloslash18 said:

You can literally shove Naramon and equip any melee weapon and do fine on SP. Why Primaries can’t have that? 

For the same reason Blunderbuss is only 90% Crit chance... no idea but sure it has to do with ranged weapons not allowed to do that much damage, just wait until they nerf all melee weapons across the board instead.

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2 hours ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

For the same reason Blunderbuss is only 90% Crit chance... no idea but sure it has to do with ranged weapons not allowed to do that much damage, just wait until they nerf all melee weapons across the board instead.

Shotguns are fine since they usually have high damage output to begin with. When I say single target primaries I'm referring to AR. Even the newest one (Trumna) struggles in high level content unless you are using the alt fire (which needs primary fire kills to fill as you may already know).

Assault Rifles need a combo counter for scaling purposes IMO. Capped at x4 or x6 would be fine (melee combo counter cap is x12 and I don't remember snipers).

Edited by (PS4)poloslash18
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13 minutes ago, Fascistsonfire said:

Well, we are Space Ninjas after all...

Agreed. I just think too many people are fixated in the "looter shooter" classification of the game, thus they bring up melee's ballpark as a reason to buff guns as if multiple ballparks are not able to coexist.

If only DE re-classified WF as an "action looter" it would put to rest most complaints about melee being better than primaries as DE would be signalling that the game has moved on from shooting being the core of the game. It would also fit in better with the current status quo of abilities being the current core of the game over shooting. 

Edited by Jarriaga
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In SP considering the density, single target rifles don't cut it. My kuva quartakk destroys Mot heavy gunners but it accomplishes nothing basically because there are dozens to go around you ^^.

Melee is easier to scale for SP it's certain. But the new weapons are kind of SP viable, Mausolon is good without ar riven, and Trumna is "OK"(sadly lots of forma for trumna and exilus slot is heavily recommended as well, thing is expensive, it is on top of that a riven hungry weapon because it gets close to big crit breakpoints with standard mods so we need to see what will be its first balanced dispo as well).

Edited by Galuf
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SP demonstrates how ineffective their difficulty scaling is. IDK why they put in sorties defenses on top of 100 levels, right after they reduced armor scaling. It's like they don't learn their lessons. These things have more EHP than anything encountered before SP, but we don't have 100% CP anymore.

Some basic playtesting would have shown that floods of over armored sponges don't work with the general ammo economy of the game, and hey, ammo restore rationing too...

If they wanted super durable enemies, they should have divided spawn by 4 and multiplied drops by 5. I'd rather pay close attention to significant enemies rather than pull out the melee and wade through fodder like D2.

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