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apperantly the most used rifle with 1 riv dispo but pitiful damage


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Guns do feel weak when compared to melee but most of it boils down to the ST vs AoE aspect.  It's hard to quantify alot of things.  For example when we talk about SP enemies most the time what we are really saying is "Grineer with extra armor".

Which raises alot of issues for guns vs melee.  Most all my melee weapons have force procs built into their combo's which allows a high crit build to demolish grineer because of pure crit builds that still get proc gains.  On the other hand when it's fighting corpus/infested my guns feel just as powerful or moreso than melee albeit they don't hit as many targets.

The real issue at play here is the disparity between armor'd targets and shielded targets.  Shields no matter how large are laughably weak.  The issue isn't the health or even the effective health, it's the interaction of damage reduction and most abilities in game that is at play.  Breach Surge can be amazing against anything without damage mitigation because it can keep ramping up.  As soon as you hit targets with damage mitigation though the damage falls and falls instead of growing and growing.

i.e. you can balance enemies to have the same EHP but die in drastically different times:

  • Grineer with 100EHP (50 hp with 50% DR)
    • Hit them for 20 (reduced to 10 by DR) damage with a 2x Breach surge proc
      • Breach surge procs 20 damage reduced to 10 by DR
      • total of 20 damage/hit (lets just say breach surge always procs for fun)
        • 5 hits to kill 1x target on average
  • Corpus with 100EHP (100hp with 0% DR)
    • Hit them for 20 damage with a 2x Breach surge proc
      • Breach surge procs 40 damage
      • Total of 60 damage/hit (assuming 100% proc rate again for fun)
        • ~~1.67 hits to kill 1x target on average

Which if you look at, is a clear example of why balancing is so hard.  It's because how the things interact with each other that makes HP vs EHP a VERY BAD metric for balancing.  Until armor/DR  is actually addressed across enemies/warframes instead of 'grineer git DR, everyone else git's HP' then there will always be huge balancing hurdles for DE.

Edited by zehne
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On 2020-09-14 at 6:00 PM, Jarriaga said:

If DE start balancing the game around Steel Path, then Steel Path becomes normal mode while current normal mode becomes easy mode by Proxy of Steel Path becoming the new normal. 

Exactly!
Steel path should´t be the standard for balancing, because the normal mode represents 99% of the content. Then we would be even more superpowered, even more Power creep.
In Steel path few guns work well, but almost all melee works. I would love to see more Steel path content, its my most played content at the moment, but like i said, SP ist just a Mode...We can´t increase all the wepons damage based on one mode, speccialy, beucase all the rest would became more easy (and the game is easy as it is for the vets).
We dont need more Powercreep, we need more difficulty,not the opposite

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On 2020-09-14 at 10:11 AM, (XB1)Pmoney010 said:

agian, this game was made for every weapon and warframe have the ability to compete, provided built correctly

This statement is just blatantly incorrect, although the term "compete" is vague and subject to interpretation.  Regardless, from the very beginning of the game there has been a hierarchy of weapon power in which not all guns or melee are created equal.  This difference in power is easiest seen in the mastery rank requirement for the weapons.  Expecting the fulmin (MR8) to compare to the brama (MR15) is just nonsense.  The brama should be roughly 2x the power.

 

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On 2020-09-14 at 12:05 PM, Jarriaga said:

DE remade melee mods around October and decided to keep the disparity. This means that Melee is intended to be on a different league above primaries.

nah melee was always on another tire the just tuned it so that melee was better balanced against its self rifles need a buff and half of the kuva weapons are over tuned

 

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48 minutes ago, spirit_of_76 said:

nah melee was always on another tire the just tuned it so that melee was better balanced against its self rifles need a buff and half of the kuva weapons are over tuned

 

I meant that they had the option to decrease or remove said difference in performance when they re-made the melee mods back in October. They decided to keep the disparity, which means this is intentional and primaries are not meant to compete with melee.

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