Hive Event - With a final Boss

[Meilanion]

Hi all,

my best moment in the last years was Operation: Hostile Mergers during the Disruption event. All in the Clan gave their best to get the best Clan of our Tier. It was a really great experience for me. I would like to have it again. Maybe as a Bossmode this time? Maybe permanent and not as a event?

 

The Basic concept:

- There is a small questline to unlock this gamemode (2 Missions before)

- Once unlocked, you can play a map with a boss spawn at the end

- After you have beaten the boss, you earn (for example) standing

- The earned standing can be traded by a trader

- You can play the map as often as you want. If you beat the boss harder than bevore, you will get the additional standing. (For example: You have beaten him with 3 Life bars, so you got 125 Standing; now you beat with with 4 Life bars = 175 Standing. So you will get 175 - 125 = 50 Standing for defeating him with 4 Life bars now)

- You can only get standing once per day. After the day you can earn again standing. (For example: You have beaten the boss last day and earned 125 standing. This day you were not that good and beat him only for 75 standing, then you will have 125 + 75 standing after two days.

- Additionally to the daily reset, the standing is added in a ranking list of your clan. This list shows the highest ever earned standing of all members.

- After a very long time, the top clans of each tier size are rewarded with something of the market. (For example: all members of the clan get a weapon slot)

 

Map concept:

- At the beginning of the mission you need to get to the center room (where boss spawns later). Many branches go away from it. In it´s middle is a cocoon with the "sleeping" boss.

- When you reached it, the hives beginn to spawn at a random location in the rest of the map and you get the information to eliminate/close them by defeating. You get only 1 minute to reach the hives. There are mobs spawning on the map.

- If you are near a hive spawn location, more mobs will spawn. Contemporaneous a 30 sec timer will start.

- If you can defeat the hives in time, you get the message, that a new Hives seems to spawn at another position. --> And again and again and again....

 

- If you cant defeat the hive in time --> you get the information, somthing is happening in the center room (bossroom)

- When you reach the room and all party members are there, the boss will plop out of the cocoon

 

Hives:

- Effective health scaling: 1/10 of the Boss life (example: 1. hive had 2.500 life , 2. hive has 5.000 life and you cant beat it in time --> boss has 10 x 2.500 life = 25.000 effective health)

---> Explenation: The boss will have 10x the health of the last beaton hive --> so it will take round about 5 min to beat him (depends hard on his boss mechanics)

- Hives are only hitable with meele or ranged weapons. Not abilitys.

- There should always spawn 2 Hives at one location. At least one at the ceiling (so you need to shoot).

- When a Hive is destroyed, it will explode in a 30 meter range radius. This will give randomly any negative status effect for 30 sec:  Poisoned, Radiation, Burning, Slowed, Explosion (Knockdown)......  

 

Bossfight concept:

- You can choose the difficulty lvl of the boss by defeating the Hives. The more Hives you can defeat, the harder it gets. Every hive is raising the lvl of the boss.

- With every difficulty lvl, the boss gets stronger, more life bars and more abilitys --> more standing earned

 

Boss suggestion:

 

Funny other Boss ideas:

- Boss is 3-5 times bigger than you

- He's drooling and you can slip on his drool

- Make him ridable for some seconds and you can kill normal spawning infesteds with him 

- He can eat you and spits you out (its like the lich animation, when he throughs you away)

- One player gets marked. After some seconds, the boss jumps on him and deals 100% damage. The damage can be divided among players within range (2 people = 50% / 50%)

- One of his attacks turns your warframe colors temporarily pink

 

Boss aktive/passive ability suggestions:

- Something changes color and indicates the current weakness element, so you deal 50% more Dmg. with this element

- Boss spaws big adds (every 5 sec) and you need to do something to stop it. (hold a point for some time, hack a terminal or shoot something. What you need to do could be random. This boss ability will trigger every 60 sec)(This mob could have an aura "All near players loose 100hp/s " thingy)

- Bossroom gets poisoned. All players loose health/s over time. (permanently)

- Boss makes damaging knockdown areas on the ground (You need to jump)

- Boss gets sometimes a damage reflection. (You can see 3 sec, bevore it´s getting active)

- Boss drains energy with his hits

- Boss nulifies Warframe abilitys of random player/s (maybe all)
(Then you need to recast your abilitys)

 

Difficulty scaling: (approximately)

Hives:	Uncle effective health:	Boss effective health:	Number of health bars:	New Abilitys:	Standing for Kill
1	2.500,00	25.000,00	1	Big add(s) spawn	25
2	5.000,00	50.000,00			50
3	7.500,00	75.000,00	2	Knockdown/Knockback	75
4	10.000,00	100.000,00			100
5	25.000,00	250.000,00	3	tbd	125
6	50.000,00	500.000,00			150
7	75.000,00	750.000,00	4	Damage reflection	175
8	100.000,00	1.000.000,00			200
9	250.000,00	2.500.000,00	5	Energy drain	225
10	500.000,00	5.000.000,00			250
11	750.000,00	7.500.000,00	6	Nulify Abilitys	275
12	1.000.000,00	10.000.000,00			300
13	2.500.000,00	25.000.000,00	7	tbd	325
14	5.000.000,00	50.000.000,00			350

.....

There will be players who reach Hive 25 or more. The Boss should not get more health bars than 5-7. But the hives and the boss life should have an endless scaling.

Please give me constructive criticism to my concept. The concept includes things from past events.

 

[DeccanTraps]

and unfortunately 3 things will happen simultaneously

a: Its too hard why bother to add content so few people access?!

b: Its too easy, I finished it in 10 mins on top difficulty while I was on a ventilator dying of covid

c: Its not exactly what I only barely imagined and certainly did not articulate, so it doesn't count as 'end game'.

At this stage I'd rather they focused on simply 'more game' than 'end game' because the latter simply by existing says 'all that other stuff is crap, this is where it is, race though the rest so you can grow up and get here' which to me is an unhealthy approach.

[kgabor]

Eh, but this doesn't sound challenging.

It sounds like it would have several arbitrary requirements just like most other 'endgame' content and knowing DE it would still likely have some meta cheese methods to beat, unfixed for years.

I would like a well designed bossfight, with a boss specifically made to counter the frame used against it though, that's been suggested before and i find that to be a good idea.

[Meilanion]

You are right, it has to be a challanging bossfight.

Maybe he gets new mechanics during the raising difdiculty, like the bosses heart gets open for some seconds. If you dont focus and kill it fast, you get oneshot and have to try again. Or he spwans million of adds... or he gets counter abilitys... jeah why not.

Nothing is fix. Just ideas. But I would like to have a Bossfight, that gets stronger and stronger and I can decide in wich difficulty I can try him.

[Meilanion]

vor 18 Stunden schrieb DeccanTraps:

and unfortunately 3 things will happen simultaneously

a: Its too hard why bother to add content so few people access?!

b: Its too easy, I finished it in 10 mins on top difficulty while I was on a ventilator dying of covid

c: Its not exactly what I only barely imagined and certainly did not articulate, so it doesn't count as 'end game'.

At this stage I'd rather they focused on simply 'more game' than 'end game' because the latter simply by existing says 'all that other stuff is crap, this is where it is, race though the rest so you can grow up and get here' which to me is an unhealthy approach.

Hi DeccanTraps,

mabe i did not explain my concept in detail. I try to do it next weekend, when i'm back.

a) My concept is, that you can decide your difficulty by your own. If you are Mr. 29 and cant beat the difficulty, you would have access to. Then just go back on difficulty Mr. 20 for example. If you beat it, then hey, next time you can try it harder or adjust yout setup ;)

b) If you have a perfect setup and group, I would say 10 minutes of concentrating in the hardest difficulty you can join with Mr.29 for example, should be good. But if you do mistakes, be to slow, misclick or something else... maybe you get hit and die and the bossfight goes longer cause you need to get rezzed.

c) For me, I think this raw concept would fit in the game. There will be always people that cry. Tell me your changes with agues or post your own idea about changes you would like.

[DeccanTraps]

I did explain my issue but to expand on the 2 lines you didnt read:

I have issues with the concept of end game because as a goal it becomes totemised. In creating something specifically to be 'end game' you are also creating 'not endgame' you are saying 'this content here? Its crap, it's a tutorial, it's not here to be enjoyed it's the chore to suffer though the test that decide who is worthy of the real fun that we keep in this bit over here' in creating an end goal things become less about the journey and having created 'end game' developers can either spend more and more resources pleasing a smaller and smaller sliver of players be providing ever more novel and specialized difficult content lest they be deemed guilty of 'not respecting their end game players' who are encoraged by this extra effort catering to them to delve deeper into the parasociality of being a fan and consumer and have to be flattered into thinking that somehow making the lights on their Babbage box's screen different makes them better than those people who haven't rolled the rock far enough up the hill to share the same views they do.

Rather than End game, for all those reasons, I'd rather we just see more game. By not emphasizing the rewards or the superiority of this bit over that bit we are encouraged to enjoy it all, to take pleasure in the journey not the destination. Unlike 'end game' content which is by its innate nature exclusionary 'more game' content is inclusive there for all. Now obviously you want to have things that appeal to long term players, but it's a very different mindset involved.

This has several advantages, not only does your development effort go where it has the biggest audience, but no two people have the same idea of what 'real' end game is, and the only thing worse than not having any 'end game' is providing something that does not conform exactly to that person's idea of precisely what end game is.

[Meilanion]

You are right. Forget this word: Endgame. It has a different meaning for me than for you. Lets say, its an additional bossmode, like all the other bosses on the planets. If I can, I will change the topic name at the end of the week.

Please give me some negative examples, why this additional bossmode would never work in its basic concept. My only differences to other bosses aleady existing, is the self choosing difficulty system combined with the clan system. The rest is in its really raw status same as other bosses. Why is this bad?

[DeccanTraps]

Honestly, as another toping on the great pizza that is warframe my only issues are that
Regardless of how punishing and unfun it has, if it has exclusive rewards it will become mandatory
and
Almost all the difficulty in bosses and things in Warframe comes about reductavely. Power immunity and status immunity take away basic things from us limiting our options. Hit point bloat takes away the benefits of cit mods and weapon damage boosts. Invulnerability frames must be endured not played against. Knockdown spam takes it all away in one go by stoping us doing anything. All the ways Warframe creates higher difficulty do so my making it harder forcing us into an ever more narrow 'correct' way made up of the things they havent taken from us.

A proper challenge would be a celebration of all we can do, would demand us using Warframe powers and gear to the fullest. But the Devs don't seem to know how to give us that.

Now if you find a way to solve that? I'll print up a 'Team [this idea] T-shirt I'll attend all its sports ball games and make polite small talk when visiting its parents. But some immune to everything bullet sponge that flattens Warframe down to being a not very good shooter because nothing else works? Pass.

And it's your idea you kind of seem to be expecting me to wade in and fix it, so here's the question:

How do you make a fun engaging boss that actually tests more than our ability to attack things to death, and scales infinitely?

[Meilanion]

You are right. I did not thought about some of these problems.

But there are solutions for it:

The only specal earning for the best clans should be nothing, that you cant get in normal way. Maybe they give the clans members just a new designed skin of somthing, that others can buy in the market.

The scaling problem really needs to be explained by me with excel. I hope i can do this on sunday. Its not very hard to understand, but its much easier for me then to explain.

The status problem is not that hard. There should be something with a color, that gives you a indication of what status deals 30% more damage to the boss at the moment. This status will shuffle every 10 seconds. All other statuses should do normal damage.

And there should be at least one add phase in the easiest difficulty, where you can use statuses.

There is no reason for me to disable immunities like harrow for the boss or no knockback mods. But beeing 100% in operater and heal 20%/s all time is crazy. I think operater is too OP right now.