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Nullifiers and CC immune enemies are the reason why "Tank frame with DPS" is almost always the answer to everything in this game.


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I went into a Corpus Ship Mobile Defense on the Steel Path, and had a bit of fun figuring out what it was I needed to do to actually get this mission done solo.  My generalist frames like Umbra and Ember failed, despite working well in missions without defense objectives.  So I went with CC frames. 

Frames like Vauban get annihilated immediately because enemies can sit outside the range of your controlled areas and blast you with fully automatic AOE fire (that also completely deletes your sentinel as fast as Primed Regen's invulnerability period will allow.) and even if you go all range and duration, a nullifier will just come along and completely remove your crowd control and thus your survivability just by brushing up against it.  They're coming from all sides, there is no way to be able to spot them and kill them before one of them gets through and touches your Bastille.  Using Vortex instead creates another problem where anything outside its range is hammering you and you have even less defense than you normally would since Bastille isn't buffing you. 

Limbo suffers from the same problem.  Big bubble means it will get popped as soon as a nullie shows up and breathes on it.  Small bubble means you can keep the console safer, longer, but a nullifier will still get to it and pop it eventually if you don't stop them.  Stepping out of the rift to deal with a nullifier with Juno enemies around is suicide.  Every enemy on the ship basically has a fully automatic grenade launcher.  You'll be dead before you can blink if you pop out of the rift to take down a nullifier shield.

Frost is a joke and suffers the same issue with nullifiers, where they can just flat out delete your CC and survivability by existing near you.

Khora almost works, but there is too much enemy fire that she honestly isn't built to tank and none of her abilities defend against that or protect the console.  Your only hope is to try and CC the whole friggin map with her 2 and 4 and do everything you can to take out the sea of nullifier bubbles before they shut your CC off by looking at it funny.  I know some builds are fairly tanky, but most of them don't help with defending a console that dies in just a few seconds of being exposed to enemy fire.  You're trying to shut down a whole map while also trying to prioritize nullifiers, and literally any mistake will cost you the whole mission because of how high enemy damage is.

So how to deal with the issue of 40ish enemies on screen all firing explosive rounds at you simultaneously while nullifiers pop out of their ranks to remove any defenses you have set up?  Tanking and DPS.  The same answer to almost every single problem in the game.  I pulled Baruuk out of my arsenal and went to work and the consoles never even got touched.  There was still a very minor challenge of keeping an eye on what direction the enemy was coming from, making sure to keep the console clear.  But that was it.  Problem solved yet again with hamfisted force.

When you have an objective to defend and can't decide your own tempo and positioning for the fight, CC is completely useless when nullifier type enemies exist.  There is no gameplay mechanic for how they turn off your abilities.  There's just an enormous bubble around them and if it touches any of your abilities the ability automatically turns off instantly.  In a straight fight they're easy enough to avoid for most frames, though area CC frames still have no counter to them since one touch to your static CC zone removes it. 

You can make the tired argument that "you can just shoot the drone" but the fact of the matter is the drone is usually on the far side of the bubble, clipped through the ceiling, or moving erratically with a very tiny hitbox.  You have to manage to hit this tiny moving hitbox while you're under a tremendous amount of fire, or ignore all the other enemies shooting you while you take down a bubble with heavy damage caps and then take down a fairly tanky Corpus unit (on the SP anyway.) before it can spam the bubble back up.  And if you're using limbo, you obviously can't do anything about that bubble from in the rift.  "DPS the bubble and enemy down before it can strip you of nearly every tool you have" is not a good gameplay mechanic.

You can try to fight around these lazy, broken mechanics...  Or you can just bring a DPS tank frame and not worry about anything.  

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Just now, -S-O-Vetula_Mortem said:

Vaubans Vacuume basicly is all i used in SP Defence and Interception wiht 280% Range and 40% Strength

For Mob Def i can suggest a small range limbo with high duration

Which absolutely didn't work solo because of nullifiers.  Popping out of the rift to deal with them and having a small bubble meant that the rest of the map was free to target me as soon as I wasn't riftbound anymore.  Stepping out of the rift to banish those enemies also meant getting hammered with fire from every direction.  All of these frames work fine for me unless nullifiers are around and then suddenly they do nothing because I get all my abilities turned off.

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Just now, -S-O-Vetula_Mortem said:

May i suggest the usage of Operators with Magus Lockdown, helps me pop a quick one on the nullies

 

Again, doesn't work.  I always have lockdown on.  The spawn rate is set so high on SP that the minimap is just solid red when I'm in Limbo because you can't attack things that aren't on the same plane as you and banish only seems to work when you're on the same plane as the enemy.  Stepping out of the rift or going operator means immediately catching dozens of explosive rounds to the face.  I'd love to see a video of someone soloing Corpus Ship Mobile Defense so I can see what it is I'm apparently doing wrong.  Because I'm just getting blasted down unless I'm in the rift and nullifiers remove any survivability the rift provides to me or the console.

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14 minutes ago, Savire510 said:

if you want to corner yourself into thinking that only tank warframes are viable then sure, go ahead

When you're defending something and nullifiers are present, yes.  They are the only things that I can find that are viable solo.  When I'm not defending things OR there are no nullifiers I have no issue making these frames work.  When a nullifier is present and I can't decide positioning because I'm defending something, they just get to show up and turn my abilities off.

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Frames that rely on CC for survivability that could run into issues, but not always. I solo cleared all mobile defense and defense (less the one with Amubulus, I cleared it with 1 ally) missions with Mag. So it surely is doable. However, if you plan on solo endless missions, it is not a good idea. If in a group though, no issues. Not every frame is meant for level 100+ assignations and SP survivability missions. You need a melee/tank frame for these. 

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I solo'd a few of the corpus ship mobile defences on the SP the other day. I was concerned about the nullifiers before doing them, but it didn't turn out anywhere near as bad as I thought it would.

Limbo with long duration & bubble just big enough to still cover the target at the end of the timer. Use 4 and 2 on the console. Roll into rift and stand about 20 metres from the bubble watching for nullies. As soon as one appears, bullet jump up and towards nullifier, roll out of rift, melee slam directly onto nullifier and rapidly delete with toxin venka prime. Bullet jump up again, quickly roll into rift, ground slam or air glide back to original position.

Really thought it would have been a bit harder, given the constant stream of fire from the mob, but sailed through easily.

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2 hours ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

Frames like Vauban get annihilated immediately because enemies can sit outside the range of your controlled areas and blast you with fully automatic AOE fire

That sounds about Right.... 

However Lucky for me I had my 6 Forma Smeeta modded with Hunter Recover and Mischief.  That helped alil bit with Keeping me Alive... 

2 hours ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

and even if you go all range and duration, a nullifier will just come along and completely remove your crowd control and thus your survivability just by brushing up against it.  They're coming from all sides, there is no way to be able to spot them and kill them before one of them gets through and touches your Bastille. 

Is that right ?

I thought the Nullifier Field had to touch the the Bastille's Grenade to remove it ?

2 hours ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

Using Vortex instead creates another problem where anything outside its range is hammering you and you have even less defense than you normally would since Bastille isn't buffing you. 

My biggest issue with Vortex is it doesn't Synergize with Tether Coil like Bastille Does...

That and Tether Coil has a very weak Pull Strength.

2 hours ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

Limbo suffers from the same problem.  Big bubble means it will get popped as soon as a nullie shows up and breathes on it.  Small bubble means you can keep the console safer, longer, but a nullifier will still get to it and pop it eventually if you don't stop them.  Stepping out of the rift to deal with a nullifier with Juno enemies around is suicide.  Every enemy on the ship basically has a fully automatic grenade launcher.  You'll be dead before you can blink if you pop out of the rift to take down a nullifier shield.

You can try Rolling Guard....

So long as you can kill the Nullifier in 4 Seconds you should be fine.

2 hours ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

Frost is a joke and suffers the same issue with nullifiers, where they can just flat out delete your CC and survivability by existing near you.

Yeah but Frost can actually deal with Nullifiers from within the Globe...

His main problem is that Enemies just walk into his Snow Globe and shoot the Defense Target from the Inside.

2 hours ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

Khora almost works, but there is too much enemy fire that she honestly isn't built to tank and none of her abilities defend against that or protect the console.

Khora's problem is that her Dangle Dome is Situational as to whether it's good for defending Objectives or not. 

Enemies caught in the Dome have a high Threat Level and will draw enemy fire away from you and the target to them. The problem with this is it doesn't work if Enemies are too Far and at a Distance both Tenno and Defense Objectives have the highest Threat Level.... Enemies just path to them by default so if the room is too large you just wind up getting Sniped.... 

But she is good...

2 hours ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

I pulled Baruuk out of my arsenal and went to work and the consoles never even got touched.  There was still a very minor challenge of keeping an eye on what direction the enemy was coming from, making sure to keep the console clear.  But that was it.  Problem solved yet again with hamfisted force.

I did this too.... Reactive Storm Baruuk is just so convenient.

2 hours ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

 

You can make the tired argument that "you can just shoot the drone" but the fact of the matter is the drone is usually on the far side of the bubble, clipped through the ceiling, or moving erratically with a very tiny hitbox. 

I don't know what's up with that thing.... There have been times where I hit it dead on and nothing happens....

It also seems like it's immune to AoE Damage..... Just in case you get any Clever Ideas about trying to get rid of it more Practically.

2 hours ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

Again, doesn't work.  I always have lockdown on.  The spawn rate is set so high on SP that the minimap is just solid red when I'm in Limbo because you can't attack things that aren't on the same plane as you and banish only seems to work when you're on the same plane as the enemy.  Stepping out of the rift or going operator means immediately catching dozens of explosive rounds to the face.  I'd love to see a video of someone soloing Corpus Ship Mobile Defense so I can see what it is I'm apparently doing wrong.  Because I'm just getting blasted down unless I'm in the rift and nullifiers remove any survivability the rift provides to me or the console.

You can try using Banish + Rift Surge to isolate the enemies around the Nullifiers....

It actually works but the difficult part is getting the Ball Rolling to begin with....

Like you said... You need to be on the same plane as the enemies to banish them in the first place.... Shield Gating is nice but it doesn't help Limbo here....

 

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Literally all Frames a viable For ALL content.  This is the best thing you can possibly ask For.  Even the worst Frames are "good enough" to solo steel path iF built and played correctly.

At no point are you FORCED to play optimally, that is a choice.  One I understand, but it is a CHOICE.

Many people specifically don't like playing optimally (like a massive chunk oF the player base will claim this, even though it's usually an excuse For not being able to achieve optimal/peak perFormance) or even those that do play optimally will sometimes choose to For the possibility oF challenge because when playing optimally the concept oF Challenge in WF is a joke.

With that, iF you have a problem with always playing optimally YOU can always CHOOSE not to.

That is 200% relevant and I consider your argument entirely debunked.

And notice I didn't even mention you can just shoot the drone, or that Frames that don't have practical immunity to nulliFiers (including non tank Frames) can just jump into the bubble and slap them with a melee.

You are wrong on so many levels it's hard to take your argument remotely seriously.

 

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vor 11 Stunden schrieb (XB1)TehChubbyDugan:

I'd love to see a video of someone soloing Corpus Ship Mobile Defense so I can see what it is I'm apparently doing wrong. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19OQqO65ou3jrJsjXpvLedH2bJWKnCpOc/view?usp=sharing 

Since youtube has problems with the video for some reason, its still at 0% heres the link to the Video File on Google Drive

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DE said Steel Path is not considered for balance of the game. If you want to use the frame to it’s maximum limits play it on Normal mode.

I do agree on Nullifier bubbles instantly dispels your abilities seems to be a cheap tactic. They should just rapidly weakened the abiliy’s effects when touched, for example :

1. Limbo’s cataclysm rapidly shrink when touched by a nullifier bubble. Active duration is cut by half.

2. Grendel while having an enemy inside the gut suffers a heavier energy drain when inside a nullifier bubble.

3. Nyx‘s chaos effect on target is cut by half when touched by or inside a nullifier bubble.

4. Buff abilities (Vex Armor, Speed, Roar, etc) duration is cut by half when touched by a nullifier bubble.

 

Edited by DrivaMain
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> "Nullifiers and CC immune enemies are the reason why "Tank frame with DPS" is almost always the answer to everything in this game."

True.
Well, that or Octavia. As shown with Deimos enemies.

And yes, this is a problem.
(There are consequences to making an ongoing power fantasy without a coherent idea of "what the hell you're doing" at any point in development.)


> "and even if you go all range and duration, a nullifier will just come along and completely remove your crowd control and thus your survivability just by brushing up against it."

True story: I did upwards of 90% of Steel Path solo, with a 280% range, medium duration, negative strength Vauban and a Primed Fever Strike Heavy Attack Stropha.
Nullifiers and Vortex ignore each other. Throw your balls above the floor (which you want to do anyway, as enemies are less likely to get stuck on the geometry), and Corpus Ship Nullifiers are melee - So won't be hanging back sheltering the other ranged units bombarding you.
Take out the charging Nulli, problem solved.

For MD, particularly, Narrow Minded Limbo with a burst damage pure-Toxin/Bane weapon (esp if you have Rolling Guard) will make short work of a Nullifier.
Roll in, splatter them (and only them. No reason to give the game more slots to spawn Nullifiers), Rift out, recast Stasis.

Alternatively, your Operator with a Klamora can take out Nullifiers while not dispelling Stasis, but then you're likely to have collateral damage kills.

Would give you video, but my PC can barely run Warframe nowadays, let alone grab video while doing it.

For extra safety, as long as you've got half an eye on the game, play bait: Place yourself, Rifted, in the path of the spawns, away from the terminal.
It's possible to complete MDs without Stasis active at all, depending on pathing and agro.

 

If you really can't manage with Nullifiers, a band-aid exists because of course it does in the form of Neutralizing Justice.

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Meh, I solo'd all of SP, and no, CC works perfectly fine. Arguably better in SP than on the regular starmap even as, you know, it's not a complete waste of time?

Lemme see, for mobile defense (and defense) Wisp was my usual go-to, but also did some with Nova, Titania and Hildryn if I felt like it. And it was very much the CC part I brought them for.

Anyway, yes, you need to kill nullifiers, but you don't need a tank with high dps for that? Reapply CC after doing that if needed. 

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You're completely right that DE tends to design content that favors pure dps and tanks. Part of that is possibly related to how powerful CC was back in the day.

The reason it's an issue is because of horrible scaling balance...they keep trying to create difficulty simply by increasing enemy stats forever and giving them immunity to our abilities. This doesn't harm the frames that are built around buffing their weapon damage or personal survival stats but it harms everyone else.

They need to drop all stats back down and rework damage and survival stats, but they probably won't do that. Alternately, if all damage had some scaling capability (both enemy and player damage) then things would be on more level playing field and DE could find more interesting mechanics to keep things in line instead of simply turning off our warframes (watch that be the next mechanic they add - forcing you in to operator form (ooh...much cooler magnetic proc idea than stealing our energy!)). Having damage deal a tiny amount of max hp plus a flat amount of damage would allow them to be generally the same at low levels, and have more consistent usefulness as enemy levels increase though that usefulness will still decline until the flat numbers are nearly useless (which already happens in game as it is).

Back to main topic though, my favorite Steel Path Corpus Mobile Defense frame is an augmented Mag. She can do crazy localized and aoe damage, and also crowd control enemies over a large area while minimizing the damage to the consoles. All the while you are free to jump into a Nullifier bubble and wreck them without any risk of disabling abilities. 

Here's the build I use, but use whatever works for you:

Growing Power, Intensify, Stretch, Primed Continuity, Augur Secrets, Redirection, Vitality, Magnetized Discharge, Counter Pulse, and Power Drift. 

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