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A Critical Summary of Warframe's Monetization Methods


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5 minutes ago, Rebore said:

Yes and your point is?

What you said has no point on what I had just said.

Prices in the market that DE controls ( Market in the ship not the market of the trade chat ) are stupid high & not balanced more unbalanced to screw players over who decide to rush/not farm.
 

Honestly my point was just to point out that to compound those issues, earning plat for free is pretty much confirmed to be intentionally difficult. Those rush buttons feel like DE salting a wound to me. 

Was just trying to jump off from your point i support. Meh hindsight it didnt need a quote.

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9 minutes ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

Honestly my point was just to point out that to compound those issues, earning plat for free is pretty much confirmed to be intentionally difficult. Those rush buttons feel like DE salting a wound to me. 

Was just trying to jump off from your point i support. Meh hindsight it didnt need a quote.

I see, but it is not really that hard to earn plat if you put in the time and effort all you gotta do is open those relics you got from playing an then sell sets which is better than wasting trades and selling only parts, but like I said the frames an weapons that are out of the vault are like 60-20p could even be less. I just don't get why prices to buy things with plat & rushing have to be so high, like actually convert the time an plat to a better ratio and maybe lower prices for things in the market and not stick things behind bundles would be nice imo but like I said it is a F2P game where you can farm the prime currency in which anything you can spend it on that DE can control the price for an not the TC it will be a high one.

Edited by Rebore
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4 hours ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Even I knew not to buy the stuff on the market place when I was new. Yea, it's important to tell new people not to buy anything on the market, but many games have this stuff now. You have to be a smart consumer (hence the mature rating) and feel things out before you go spending plat like crazy.

Videogames are not charities, and they never will be. 

If you plan to play the game for a few years, buying a small amount of plat is plenty to get you started until you can reach a point where you can sell your own stuff. Spending even 40 dollars on plat over 2 years is a massive ROI for the entertainment provided.

 

Yeah, I have to say I think Warframe's monetization practices are for the most part a non-issue, despite most of what the OP writes being technically factually true. Short of a pre-teen playing Warframe and being so inexperienced with F2P games and good financial practice in general - and bearing in mind that pre-teens are not allowed to sign up for Warframe at all, and that those under 18 are required by ToS to have a guardian's input before signing up - it's hard for me to imagine that anyone wildly spending on every Darvo deal and every Foundry rush are anything but either rich enough to do so with impunity, or unable to blame anyone but themselves. Being that blind to managing both IRL and in-game money would be difficult to achieve.

 

I'm no financial analyst, but I've spent just under $100 on the game in the nine or so months (750ish hours) I've been seriously playing and currently have 4,500+ platinum, a maxed Arcane Energize, several high-demand rivens, easily half a dozen Tennogen Syandanas and armor pieces, two Tennogen skins and a Tennogen helmet, five deluxes, countless for-platinum armor sets and Syandanas, the Rhino Rubedo skin, 1000+ platinum worth of Orbiter decorations, a slew of at-the-time vaulted Prime Warframes and weapons I'd bought for platinum, and a number of other things that are platinum drains (or were at the time; RIP Weeping Wounds prices). I've rushed things and bought plenty of potatoes in my time, so I'm not that stingy, and I'm also not just pouring 100% of my time into the game to manage this - I've been steadily keeping at a part-time job and college as well. It's not too difficult to manage IRL and in-game money if you just use common sense and don't buy the Furis from Darvo every time he posts it for 60 57 platinum.

 

5 minutes ago, Rebore said:

I see, but it is not really that hard to earn plat if you put in the time and effort all you gotta do is open those relics you got from playing an then sell sets which is better than wasting trades and selling only parts, but like I said the frames an weapons that are out of the vault are like 60-20p could even be less. I just don't get why prices to buy things with plat & rushing have to be so high, like actually convert the time an plat to a better ratio and maybe lower prices for things in the market and not stick things behind bundles would be nice imo but like I said it is a F2P game where you can farm the prime currency in which anything you can spend it on that DE can control the price for an not the TC it will be a high one.

Exactly - you can farm Prime parts and sets to sell to others, passively build up syndicate standing to buy syndicate offerings and trade them to others, farm rare mods and Ayatan statues via Arbitrations or Orokin vault runs... Plenty of pretty painless ways to make platinum for free really.

Edited by Anaktoria
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4 minutes ago, Anaktoria said:

Yeah, I have to say I think Warframe's monetization practices are for the most part a non-issue, despite most of what the OP writes being technically factually true. Short of a pre-teen playing Warframe and being so inexperienced with F2P games and good financial practice in general - and bearing in mind that pre-teens are not allowed to sign up for Warframe at all, and that those under 18 are required by ToS to have a guardian's input before signing up - it's hard for me to imagine that anyone wildly spending on every Darvo deal and every Foundry rush are anything but either rich enough to do so with impunity, or unable to blame anyone but themselves. Being that blind to managing both IRL and in-game money would be difficult to achieve.

 

I'm no financial analyst, but I've spent just under $100 on the game in the nine or so months (750ish hours) I've been seriously playing and currently have 4,500+ platinum, a maxed Arcane Energize, several high-demand rivens, easily half a dozen Tennogen Syandanas and armor pieces, two Tennogen skins and a Tennogen helmet, five deluxes, countless for-platinum armor sets and Syandanas, the Rhino Rubedo skin, 1000+ platinum worth of Orbiter decorations, a slew of at-the-time vaulted Prime Warframes and weapons I'd bought for platinum, and a number of other things that are platinum drains (or were at the time; RIP Weeping Wounds prices). I've rushed things and bought plenty of potatoes in my time, so I'm not that stingy, and I'm also not just pouring 100% of my time into the game to manage this - I've been steadily keeping at a part-time job and college as well. It's not too difficult to manage IRL and in-game money if you just use common sense and don't buy the Furis from Darvo every time he posts it for 60 57 platinum.

Very well said. 

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Speaking of cosmetics though, I am still really unhappy with the pistol/shotgun/whip skins designed by Liger Inuzuka that I was so hyped for from the reveal in the tennocon art stream..............only being on the for-money Deimos Supporter Packs. 

And the best one is on the costliest tier pack.

I was aware the infested drone was on it, and kind of didn't mind... but these beautiful skins ;-;

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44 minutes ago, DragoonStorm1 said:

Speaking of cosmetics though, I am still really unhappy with the pistol/shotgun/whip skins designed by Liger Inuzuka that I was so hyped for from the reveal in the tennocon art stream..............only being on the for-money Deimos Supporter Packs. 

And the best one is on the costliest tier pack.

I was aware the infested drone was on it, and kind of didn't mind... but these beautiful skins ;-;

It's okay that some people's main or only way to support Warframe is by selling stuff to others for plat. Years ago when I was in a different financial position that was me, and Steve has mentioned before it supports the game in its own way, by giving many who buy platinum from DE more reason to do so, and many who get plat from selling stuff take it out of circulation. And I get your disappointment. 

But unfortunately, since the beginning of the game, cosmetics have been one thing that you will sometimes see sold for real money, and only real money, with no other way to acquire. Prime accessories are an example of this, and are only available again through prime unvaultings which is also only paying money direct to DE. I don't expect this to change, as it has been mostly accepted by the playerbase over the years as being the one thing we mostly don't mind them selling direct for cash only. 

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7 hours ago, Atkana said:

A common strategy when selling premium currency bundles or items is to set the costs so that the items can't quite be purchased with the amount given from a bundle, leading the customer to have to pay for the next tier of bundle (spending more money) in order to get the necessary premium currency. Examples of this in Warframe include: the boosters, orbiter segments, weapon/warframe slots (over multiple purchases).

Can you explain this part further.... Or give examples... I genuinely don't understand. 😰.

7 hours ago, Atkana said:

The premium currency price of rushing the crafting of certain items is usually pretty high compared to the value of the item itself, ranging from bad value to legitimately negative value. For example, it costs more premium currency to rush building Excalibur and his parts (while also spending in-game resources in the process), than it does to buy Excalibur from the in-game market (with warframe slot and orokin catalyst included).

Well.... To be Fair Excalibur, Mag and Volt are easy Targets because DE knows they are starter Warframes and so they have lower Market Prices than Nyx and Rhino... Who are just as Easy to Acquire.

8 hours ago, Atkana said:

Most in-game resources (including credits) can be bought from the market for premium currency, however the rates that are charged are incredibly high compared to their actual value.

It gets even more Ridiculous when you compare them to the Prices of Resources that actually Are Tradeable (the Rocks from The Plains/Vallis).

8 hours ago, Atkana said:

The market price for purchasing standard Warframes is often higher than purchasing their (objectively superior) Prime versions through trade from other players.

This one is actually interesting because it makes you think about the actual value discrepancy between Blue Prints vs Pre Built Warframes.

So on Average I would say a non Vaulted Prime Set costs 50 Platinum.... And it's Vanilla version version in the market costs like 300 Platinum. So let's subtract 40P for the Slot and Potato and 125P for the Rush Job.... That leaves about 90 Platinum left to account for the Crafting Resources....

All together it seems like the Price of Convenience is.... Well... 250 Platinum...

Before you tell me how wrong and stupid I am I just want to say I'm bad at Math... That is all. 🙂...

But you get the idea.... How do we as players value BypaSsing The RNG versus how DE Values Bypassing the RNG. I Reckon it's not easy to put a number on such a thing but that hasn't stopped DE from trying.

8 hours ago, Atkana said:

Darvo deals - Every day, a market item is given a random discount and presented to every player to buy. They are given a limited stock value which is displayed to the player, pressuring them to make a purchase before other players buy out the stock.

Supposedly the Stock will Dwindle regardless of whether anyone buys the item or not to "Create a Sense of Urgency".

8 hours ago, Atkana said:

Lootboxes / Gambling
Charging of money to give customers a random chance of gaining rewards.

There's no way to Describe this other than Daylight Robbery. Call me crazy but if you spend a set amount of cash...  You should be entitled to get an item or service with Absolute Certainty in return.

Spending money in exchange for the potential to get #*!%ed Over is just Pure Evil.... And you know what's the sad part.... It works 😰.

8 hours ago, Atkana said:

Void Relic packs are available in the market for premium currency. The relic pack gives the player a random set of 3 Void Relics, which themselves are then opened for random rewards. It's buying a lootbox of lootboxes.

RNG inside of RNG.... That's Warframe's Speciality. 

8 hours ago, Atkana said:

Boosters (often paid for with premium currency) come with a timer attached, encouraging the player to play as often as possible for its duration, in order to get the most value out of their purchase.

The Boosters are probably the one that bother me the most....

I don't even think they are the most effective at Habituation.... They just happen to be one of the more blatantly obvious examples of it.

I don't know if that's a good or bad thing.

8 hours ago, Atkana said:

Previously, time-limited alerts were special missions with exclusive random rewards. Players were encouraged to often come back to check current alerts to avoid missing out on desired rewards.

Thank God these are gone.....

I mean I complain alot about Nightwave but I definitely don't want Alerts back.... Nope !!!

8 hours ago, Atkana said:

For certain purposes, players are forced to travel to social hubs, where they encounter other players, and their decorated Warframes (reinforcing / normalizing the idea of purchasing cosmetics, even just by their presence).

I'd like to add that there's no way to Turn any of this Off when visiting any Relay.

It's especially bad in Maroo's Bazaar because this Social Aspect can cause the Trading Functionality to Lag or even Malfunction all together.

8 hours ago, Atkana said:

Pay to Skip / Pay to not be inconvenienced
Giving players the ability to pay real money to skip parts of the game. Oftentimes, the game's design is intentionally pushed to make not doing so unsatisfying, in order to encourage spending.

This sort of critism became more prevalent in some of the more Recent Game Modes and Events that boil down to just Waiting for a Timer.

8 hours ago, Atkana said:

Previously, mod drop chance boosters were also available, though instead of being part of the in-game market and using premium currency, they could only be bought with money as part of a prime accessories bundle (costing $49.99 USD) for a 7 day booster.

I'd like to remind everyone that these were added some time after they Nerfed Loot Stacking and then passed it off as a Fix.... 

The combination of this nerf (they even used The Silver Grove as a Reference) combined with the Addition of Mod Drop Chance Boosters showing up in the Market first was definitely suspicious.

8 hours ago, Atkana said:

Newly released warframes have been locked behind increasingly more time consuming in-game grinds to acquire them (including real-life time gates). As such, players who want to play with them on release are incentivized to purchase them for premium currency in the market.

I know they are some pretty bad Grinds in Warframe... Harrow gets mentioned alot for example....

However one of the Sneakier ones I think is Hildryn. Her components drop from a Boss.... This boss can only be accessed using A "key"... This Key can only be gotten from a Time Limited even that only comes like Twice a Month.

In other words.... Hildryn (even though she isn't that hard to get) is an Event Gated Warframe.... That's pretty #*!%ed up when you think about it because I think she's the only Warframe that requires an event Resource in order to Farm. 

 

So the Process of Acquiring Hildryn from Start to finish consists of Sealing a Minimum of 6 Fractures (it's 24 if you decide not Stack Coolant Cannisters) to acquire the 6 Diluted Thermia you need to defeat the 2 Phase Boss who drops the 6 Lazulite Toroids you need to craft her Component Parts.

This process just Screams "Just buy her from from the Market".

However my main issue with The Pay To Skip mentality is the community always assumes it's because that content being Skipped over is not to ones Preference rather than the content is simply just bad. It's nice that you can skip over content that is good but you would rather not do but instances where this is the case are fewer than people are willing to Admit. One only needs to look at the various Game Modes that have become Ghost Towns due to the fact that the mode is terrible and the only reason anyone would ever do it is just to get Harrow or Nidus... Once they do.... They never touch it again. 

The fact that The Thermia Fractures Event has only ever been under control when it was Release (as far as I know on PC) Just goes to show that this Mentality of Paying to Skip has clearly been abused.

I bet there are some players who don't know they are additional Bonuses other than Double Credits if you seal enough Fractures.... Simply because it hasn't happened since the first Thermia Fractures Event.

This is the consequence of the"Just buy it with Platinum.... It's easy to do a couple fissures" Mentality the community has with Every Critism regarding how tedious it is to engage with various game modes.

5 hours ago, Emolition said:

lol for real ? Should we remove platinum and have them spend money making the game for us the next 5 years with no income just so we can buy everything for credits in game?

Honestly....

Yes I would like that...

 

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8 hours ago, (PS4)Unstar said:

snip

Sorry if I'm not great at articulating things. The intention of the post is to outline the practices, as well as list every way they appear in Warframe, and might be applied (even including points that I personally give affordances to), so people can make their own informed judgements (as I mentioned in the second bolded point). While it did definitely have my own value judgements mixed in (^.^;), it isn't meant to be about me arguing points.

Because of how I'm addressing everything through the lens of these practices, it will definitely contain a (un?)healthy amount of cynicism. I guess if it helps, you can consider the list a mixture of informing and devil's advocacy (uh, if that term applies this way around).

3 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Can you explain this part further.... Or give examples... I genuinely don't understand. 😰.

Okay, so let's say you want to skip the grind and all the resources required to make the Kavat Incubator Upgrade Segment, and just buy it from the market. It costs 175 platinum to buy, and you have none, so you go to purchase some platinum. The amount of platinum you can buy is set at fixed amounts - you can't just type out a number you want to buy (like 175 in this case). You'll notice that the 2nd lowest cost option you can buy is 170 platinum, but the price for the incubator segment has been intentionally set to be 5 platinum more than that! This means that you'll have to buy the next more costly option of 370 platinum, spending twice as much money as you needed/wanted to, all because the market cost of the segment is set to be 5 platinum above the denominations that you can buy.

3 hours ago, Lutesque said:

I know they are some pretty bad Grinds in Warframe... Harrow gets mentioned alot for example....

However one of the Sneakier ones I think is Hildryn. Her components drop from a Boss.... This boss can only be accessed using A "key"... This Key can only be gotten from a Time Limited even that only comes like Twice a Month.

In other words.... Hildryn (even though she isn't that hard to get) is an Event Gated Warframe.... That's pretty #*!%ed up when you think about it because I think she's the only Warframe that requires an event Resource in order to Farm. 

Ouch, I didn't know that boss fight was locked behind the event. Mainly because I've not bothered maxing out Solaris yet (and definitely not because I'm one of the people who paid to skip to get Hildryn, no sirree *shifty eyes*)

9 hours ago, Kaiga said:

Have you lost your goddamn minds? This is one of THE BEST games in terms of monetization, as not only is nothing mandatory to gameplay MTX-only, but you can earn the premium currency through trading items earned in-game.

Stepping into my personal opinion for a bit: yes, Warframe is a lot better compared to a lot of the of the really bad stuff. I definitely wouldn't play it so much if it was anything like those other games (like seriously, having microtransactions, lootboxes, and subscriptions ontop of having to buy a game upfront? ew). It is also super cool for players that you are allowed to get premium currency by trading in-game (some games wouldn't even let you do that), but it is worth remembering that that premium currency has to come from someone buying it. It's kinda basically a way for free players to profit from other players paying to skip (by buying what you've grinded for off of you).

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5 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Yes I would like that...

You do realise that doing that would kill the game, right? As in literally make it financially nonviable to continue development, leading to a closure of the game's service.

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11 hours ago, Aldain said:

Here comes the Riven mafia to tell you how "wrong" you are.

But seriously, I can't wholly blame DE for the Riven market, it is mainly the greed and insanity of the playerbase that caused it to spiral out of control.

DE is the one in direct control of the value of items in the game. The artificial scarcity and multi-layered rng, and the decision to have rivens be on a per weapon basis rather than at least per weapon class basis, so you pay for the stats rather than stat+weapon combination, are all on DE.

I'm certain they knew fully how it would end up, because DE is in the business of monetizing RNG. I don't understand the point in praising DE for not selling traditional loot boxes, when the game is designed in a way to be one grand loot box, with the option to bypass all the loot boxes. It's to the point where when ever people complain about the garbage RNG the common response is "just buy it off market".

Warframe is also not the only, nor first game to allow earning "premium" currency through game play. In fact, out of all the games that do allow this, other than through mobile style, it's objectively the worst. Excluding getting lucky with a specific Riven, or trading instead of playing, the game has the worst $/hour of game play I've ever played.

Warframe just receives all it's praises from people that quite honestly haven't played that many games. It really seems that many of these people had Warframe as their only non-AAA game.

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15 hours ago, (XB1)CaptainSeth5423 said:

Lol who buys void relic packs

a lot of people do when a new prime is added, it can save time spent relic farming. sure, you don't always get what you want, but Syndicate rep is easy to get so I just keep buying packs from them and use the ones I need. 

not gonna lie, there are a few newbie traps; I know they dropped Mod Packs, but aren't those Credit bundles for plat still a thing, or did they take those out too? I honestly can't remember, but The Index invalidates any other method of getting Credits anyhow. I wouldn't be surprised if a substantial portion of spent platinum came from new players who don't know any better yet.

the important thing to remember though, is that it can always get worse. we've all seen what the likes of EA and Ubisoft have done to their games, and I'm grateful DE haven't gone down these routes.... not yet at least..

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We have to keep in mind that monetization is always a necessary evil, it never makes the gameplay better directly. The habit building is very strong in warframe because player rentention seems to be almost as important as people actually spending money and it worked on me. I havent missed a single daily login since I started, I did daily sorties for a long time, I'm crafting a forma almost every day.

The premium currency being tradeable makes the system work imo. With that you can play almost completely for free (exception being prime accessories, tennogen and those new supporter packs). Of course someone is still paying for that plat and that makes it so easy for DE to put plat costs everywhere. DE is selling you back your time but very often it's unclear who paid for it.

It feels liks some people in this thread get overly defensive because otherwise they would have to admit (to themselves) that they completely fell for that hook, habit, hobby but there is nothing wrong with admitting that.

The point isnt to shut down the game by removing all monetization but to show people the tactics of free to play games so they can make a more informed decision. That decision can still be to spend plat or even real money. For warframe specifically I adopted the mindset of only spending real money when I think the recent updates were very good in their entirety and if I know that I will use and enjoy what I spend money on. (Yes, I havent spent money on the game in a long time)

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I dislike Prime access, its just to expensive for me.
I also dislike "rush for platin". no matter if i buy or farm plat. i don't like that idea in general.
I dislike Twitch/Amazon Prime stuff, since i don't want an amazon account... why not let us buy the stuff with $$$ instead of account creation of not so trustful websites...
RIVEN Slots have to be removed... why adds limit to those, this is just stopping me from playing riven content.

But if people ant to buy X-AMount or Credits for platin... why not...i see no predatory scheme here...
Its like Stuff you buy in reallife, like those things for smartphones, those knobs, they sell for 20$ here ,doesn't mean i NEED or NEED to buy them if i can just make my own for less than a dollar...


About relics being lockboxes.. you can farm relics...you can farm standing, of course its annoying... but you don't need to buy them with platin...
Go and look for REAL lockboxes in Star Trek Online, you need WEEKS to get just 1 key and most of the time the content is worthless.


 

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Il y a 11 heures, DissentWomble a dit :

Saw point about lootboxes.. sees relics and modpacks being mentioned..

I'll just assume the rest is rubbish.

Took effort to take it seriously after that but you should there is some interesting points (and a few fallacies here and there) but overall a constructive post.

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11 hours ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

Ever notice how the game makes little no to attempt, and even lock you out of trading when your new?

Ever notice how all the trading options are purely player driven, with DE staying as hands off as possible?

Ever consider that those are intentional, to reduce the usage of trade chat to earn plat ingame?

Take off that tinfoil hat. You can trade as soon as you reached MR 2, which is 2 days of playing.

That's the free market for you.

The market is alive as ever. If this is DE's way to reduce plat in circulation then DE is doing a terrible job planning it.

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1 hour ago, Vyra said:

About relics being lockboxes.. you can farm relics...you can farm standing, of course its annoying... but you don't need to buy them with platin...

Gambling method is still gambling method even if you avoid it. Avoiding won't make it disappear you know.

DE should remove relic packs from the market. Immediately. Buying them from the market means you have gambled your hard earned money for it.

Edited by DrivaMain
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2 hours ago, Syln said:

 

Took effort to take it seriously after that but you should there is some interesting points (and a few fallacies here and there) but overall a constructive post.

I actually did but it didn't changed my mind. The post doesn't take any stance so theres nothing to argue. It lists common methods that game devs use to bait players to spend. Its neat and sure DE uses most of the tricks mentioned there. Now does it automatically mean DE is as scummy as other free to play games in this aspect? Not even close. 

The post uses catchphrases that automatically makes the reader think of the act in a negative way. Calling relics packs lootboxes is like calling a lion a cat. Yes its the same family in terms of mechanism but is it actually as bad?

Relics are free to farm, you get one in most maps you run. It'd be different  if exclusive frames like for example Octavia Prime are only available through relics that you can get from said relic packs and you can't farm them any other way. You can call foul play or gating if thats the case but its not. Trying to tie words with fancy negative connotations like lootboxes, time pressure deals, and premium currency to what DE has done is misleading. 

Free MMOS has a premium currency is a common practice and its something that can be a bad thing to a game that forces players to depend on it. Its really not the case with warframe now is it when players can farm the plats you need in the game. And you can make the point about "someone spend their real life money into the game so its not free plats" all you want but its not premium when its available to everyone. Resources aren't tradeable is a bad thing? Maybe its the case in other games... you know what.. I'm bored already.. too many things that feels like its trying too hard to sound clever.

tl:dr The post regurgitates points from a youtuber on common MMO practices and tries to paint warframe like its guilty of said thing which isn't really constructing at all imo.  

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5 hours ago, Atkana said:

Okay, so let's say you want to skip the grind and all the resources required to make the Kavat Incubator Upgrade Segment, and just buy it from the market. It costs 175 platinum to buy, and you have none, so you go to purchase some platinum. The amount of platinum you can buy is set at fixed amounts - you can't just type out a number you want to buy (like 175 in this case). You'll notice that the 2nd lowest cost option you can buy is 170 platinum, but the price for the incubator segment has been intentionally set to be 5 platinum more than that! This means that you'll have to buy the next more costly option of 370 platinum, spending twice as much money as you needed/wanted to, all because the market cost of the segment is set to be 5 platinum above the denominations that you can buy.

Oh yeah... That.... Yeah that's one of the reasons why many Xbox Players wanted Microsoft to drop the whole MS Points Currency Vouchers and allow them to use Credits Cards...

5 hours ago, Atkana said:

Ouch, I didn't know that boss fight was locked behind the event. Mainly because I've not bothered maxing out Solaris yet (and definitely not because I'm one of the people who paid to skip to get Hildryn, no sirree *shifty eyes*)

Well if you go in a Group it's easy to miss this because it only requires a single diluted Thermia from a single Team Mate to initiate the fight.... And from my Experience players aren't reluctant to Be the ones to offer up their Thermia to Initiate the Fight.... Some players are eager to offer up the Key.

Unfortunately for me I didn't have that luxury of Co-Op.... I do all the Content in Fortuna Alone so in my case No Fractures means No Hildryn....

4 hours ago, Corvid said:

You do realise that doing that would kill the game, right? As in literally make it financially nonviable to continue development, leading to a closure of the game's service.

How would it kill the game ? Before we had Free To Play he had to Play.... And many developers today are still doing just fine using that method. 😱.

4 hours ago, Yamazuki said:

Warframe just receives all it's praises from people that quite honestly haven't played that many games. It really seems that many of these people had Warframe as their only non-AAA game.

I'm one of these People... I don't come from a Background of F2P and Looter Shooter Games....

But even i can see there's so many things in Warframe that shouldn't be the way they are now.

4 hours ago, Psianide73 said:

Don't waste your time sir.

Actually if you play Warframe.... You clearly have time to waste.... This game eats up alot of it.

3 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

The premium currency being tradeable makes the system work imo. With that you can play almost completely for free (exception being prime accessories, tennogen and those new supporter packs). Of course someone is still paying for that plat and that makes it so easy for DE to put plat costs everywhere. DE is selling you back your time but very often it's unclear who paid for it.

Here's an interesting thing about the whole "Platinum is Still Real Money, even if it's not necessarily your Real Money" thing that I myself I'm also guilty of throwing around....

Let's say the number of people who actually are legitimately supporting Warframe with Real money... Were to dwindle....

Wouldn't that have an affect on everyone when DE adjusts the Drop Rates of New Content to be worse to compensate ?

 

Part of the reason why I stopped spending real money on Warframe is because it legit just didn't feel like it was Worth it. Particularly when it comes to Boosters. Is it nice you can double the rate of your Progression ? 

Yes....

However the problem is the booster continues to tick away even while you are offline.... 

The last thing I want from buying Prime Access is something nagging at me for not being on Warframe all the time.

3 hours ago, Vyra said:

I dislike Prime access, its just to expensive for me.
I also dislike "rush for platin". no matter if i buy or farm plat. i don't like that idea in general

The only thing I have against Rushing Crafting for Platinum is when it Blocks all forms of Progression. 

Think about it.... Craft Times wouldn't be so bad if you had something else you could  be doing while you waited.... But that's rarely the case in my Experience.

Although I guess it's fine... If there's nothing to do then I il just log off.... Except since I left in a foul mode... You can't be certain if I'm going to return.

3 hours ago, Vyra said:

About relics being lockboxes.. you can farm relics...you can farm standing, of course its annoying... but you don't need to buy them with platin...
Go and look for REAL lockboxes in Star Trek Online, you need WEEKS to get just 1 key and most of the time the content is worthless.

This sounds like a" Warframe is Good because Other Games do it worse"... Type of Logic here.

14 minutes ago, DissentWomble said:

The post uses catchphrases that automatically makes the reader think of the act in a negative way. Calling relics packs lootboxes is like calling a lion a cat. Yes its the same family in terms of mechanism but is it actually as bad?

Yeah but here's the thing...  Does something being not as bad mean it should not be addressed ? 

18 minutes ago, DissentWomble said:

tl:dr The post regurgitates points from a youtuber on common MMO practices and tries to paint warframe like its guilty of said thing which isn't really constructing at all imo.  

I think this is more or less Correct.... But the fact is that even Warframe's Variation of these Practices aren't actually good....

The best we are able to come up with is that they are not as bad.... 

Do you think that's a good thing ?

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2 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Yeah but here's the thing...  Does something being not as bad mean it should not be addressed ? 

I think this is more or less Correct.... But the fact is that even Warframe's Variation of these Practices aren't actually good....

The best we are able to come up with is that they are not as bad.... 

Do you think that's a good thing ?

It is. Because the alternative from said practices probably means no income for them. Paying taxes are common practice in this world. Do you think its practical that a government provide services and support the country without implementing taxes? Now a country that impose taxes on ridiculous rates like the states for example is scummy. A country that has fair rates and gives back to the citizens through healthcare and actually functional facilities is commendable.   

Imo DE is in the later category but the post just wide brushes DE into the bad example just because it implements tax. But sure.. just use fancy catchphrases to make a point.

tl:dr: they've been fair in most cases and i personally think its a disservice to just blindly call it a bad practice when its basically needed to function. 

ps : done with the topic. I've made my point. 

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1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

How would it kill the game ? Before we had Free To Play he had to Play.... And many developers today are still doing just fine using that method. 😱.

  To clarify, I think what the other poster is saying is that - if you remove the monetization of in-game cosmetics, etc. - the game either has to cost a significant sum of money to buy from the get-go (and/or a subscription fee each month), or it will be uncompensated labor on the part of the dev team to keep making it, especially to the level it's being made currently. The devs need to eat somehow. I suppose the other alternative is to plaster ads everywhere in-game, which would be quite a disaster really.

1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

Actually if you play Warframe.... You clearly have time to waste.... This game eats up alot of it.

That seems unfairly personal and irrelevant. Firstly, it's possible to play Warframe very sparingly. Secondly, doesn't this imply that everyone here - yourself included - has a similar amount of time to waste too?

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1 hour ago, DissentWomble said:

It is. Because the alternative from said practices probably means no income for them. Paying taxes are common practice in this world. Do you think its practical that a government provide services and support the country without implementing taxes? Now a country that impose taxes on ridiculous rates like the states for example is scummy. A country that has fair rates and gives back to the citizens through healthcare and actually functional facilities is commendable.   

That's not a fair Comparison because Government aren't "Free To Serve" in the same way Warframe is "Free To Play".

1 hour ago, DissentWomble said:

 

Imo DE is in the later category but the post just wide brushes DE into the bad example just because it implements tax. But sure.. just use fancy catchphrases to make a point.

I think DE is in the former Category simply because they aren't Honest about it.

46 minutes ago, Anaktoria said:

To clarify, I think what the other poster is saying is that - if you remove the monetization of in-game cosmetics, etc. - the game either has to cost a significant sum of money to buy from the get-go (and/or a subscription fee each month)

Really ?

How much do you think we should pay to experience things like Defection or Thermia Fractures ?

Oh sure these things seem good when they are free but if you were to put a Price on I doubt it would actually cost that much given that it's Quality is terrible compared to content you would have to pay for in a game you would have to pay for.

The biggest problem I think with The Free To Play model is the excuse that a game is allowed to be worse if you don't have to pay for it....

But Since Warframe can't actually afford to be Free To Play... Doesn't that mean we should hold it to the standard we would any other game we would have to pay for ?

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54 minutes ago, Anaktoria said:

That seems unfairly personal and irrelevant. Firstly, it's possible to play Warframe very sparingly. Secondly, doesn't this imply that everyone here - yourself included - has a similar amount of time to waste too?

It does ... Even with a Bottomless Wallet Warframe will still eat up alot of your time....

You can play Warframe less per day or per week or month or per year but unless you just Stop playing all together it's still going to eat up all your time....

Nobody Escapes the Grind....

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