Weapon Set Bonuses for suffix weapon series (Wraith, Vandal, Mutalist, ect)

[Scarlet-Rebel]

Good day, everyone. I've been playing Warframe for about 3+ years, and there's a lot of weapons in this game I really like. But I've noticed that there was varying weapons part of a series, with a suffix typically (An exception would be the Lesion. Even though that's technically a Mutalist weapon in my opinion, it lacks the suffix). So I was thinking of set bonuses for these weapons that affect your Warframe and if all three weapons of the same suffix are equipped. However there is a concern from me that a lot of these suffix weapons that you can buy with Platinum, in particular Primed Weapons, despite having a suffix, may be close to Pay For Advantage if they are given a set bonus for equipping them, only if we are looking at Primed Access Prime Weapons mainly. I understand we can buy Primed Weapons without buying Primed Access or buying Platinum, but it is still something I am concerned about. If we do not focus on Primed Weapons from Prime Access then it wouldn't really be a problem for Primed Weapons to give a set bonus. I also would like to point out that it would be a little bizarre to give a set bonus to the Skiajati (which lacks any partner weapons), the Dex Weapons (which there's only 3 of), or the Arca Weapons (same issue as the Dex Weapons). I guess we can suggest to DE to make more weapons that are based off those suffixes to supplement the suggestion of a set bonus for suffixed weapons. But now, let's begin. Each weapon series will give certain bonuses to your equipped Warframe and the suffixed weapons if all three of your weapon slots (Primary, Secondary, Melee) are using weapons with the same suffix (I.e., Ignis Wraith + Twin Viper Wraith + Machete Wraith). Here are my suggestions for each set bonus as well as suggestions for more weapons in the categories of the suffixes.

Wraith Weapons Suggestions:
We need a few more Wraith weapons to really give a large incentive to take advantage of the suggested Set Bonus. The same can be said for other weapon suffixes besides Primed Weapons, as they already have enough weapons to cover/allow a Set Bonus. I suggest the following few, and I am open to others:
-Harpak Wraith (Suggestion note: Base damage in my opinion should be improved by 30% and improved Critical Chance to a baseline of 22%.)
-Sobek Wraith

-Javlok Wraith
-Kulstar Wraith
-Khomak Wraith
-Twin Khomak Wraith
-Ripkas Wraith
-Halikar Wraith

Wraith Set Bonus Suggestion:
When equipped with a full set of Wraith weapons: All weapons are hushed (Noise Level Silent), all weapons gain +45% innate Heat damage in addition, and all weapons gain +25% Status Chance. Any Warframe that is equipped with a full set of Wraith weapons will gain +30% Power Effeciency for Stealth based Abilities and +25% Power Duration for all Abilities.
This set bonus was given consideration from the thought process that it would have to be lore friendly...or trying to be anyway. Grineer have a stealth advantage when you consider bosses like Tyl Rygor with his invisibility or his experimental Manics. Grineer powers also have some duration of their own and several of their weapons are partially heat based or use propellents and explosives. "Crude and dangerous", as our Operators say.

Prsima Weapon Suggestions:
-Prisma Daikyu (Suggestion note: Improved Critical Chance at the cost of slightly reduced Status Chance but higher Base Damage.)
-Prisma Simulor (Suggestion note: Fires different animated vortexes that actually look like black holes with higher Status Chance and same Critical Chance as the standard Simulor, but will deal primarily Slash damage instead of Impact, but only has one shot in the Magazine. To compensate the Ammo Maximum is increased by double, and the Reload Speed is faster.)

-Prisma Stug (Yes, it's a meme...but this weapon needs a rework)
-Prisma Zakti (Suggestion note: Improved Critical Chance, Magazine Capacity, and Base Damage, offers a unique gimmick that allows needles to bypass enemy shields. Will not bypass proto-shields.)

-Prisma Sarpa (Suggestion note: Increased Armor Strip effect by 15%, and increased base Critical Chance to 30%. Prisma Sarpa will fire void bullets and remains silent when shooting.)
-Prisma Jat Kittag (Suggestion note: Heavy Slam attacks will not consume Heavy Attack Combo. Innate Blast damage in addition to IPS, and base Critical Chance improved to 30%.)

Prisma Set Bonus Suggestion:
When equipped with a full set of Prisma weapons: All weapons gain +50% innate Void damage and gain 30% faster Fire Rate. Any Warframe that is equipped with a full set of Prisma weapons will gain 30% more Power Strength and gain a 40% DR effect. This set bonus I feel makes sense considering Prisma weapons are bathed in the Void's energy, and should offer any Tenno who use them the same energy these weapons bathed in, or at least one quarter of it.

Vandal Weapon Suggestions:
-Penta Vandal (Suggestion note: Improved Status Chance and improved Magazine Capacity to 15. A new mechanic for the Vandal variant is suggested too, which involves allowing shot grenades to innately cause Stagger for enemies upon being hit by them before the grenades explode.)
-Convectrix Vandal (Suggestion note: Improved base Critical Chance to 25% and improve Punch Through to 1.0. A new mechanic for the Vandal variant is suggested too, which involves giving an Alternate Fire that consumes two ammunition units for a wider beam array attack that deals innate Radiation damage.)
-Cycron Vandal (Suggestion note: Improved beam length, sound effect, and Magazine Capacity improved to 60, and improved base Critical Chance to 20% and Critical Multiplier to x2.2, as well as adding full IPS and improved Base Damage. A new mechanic for the Vandal variant is suggested too, which involves using the Alternate Fire button to make a charge shot that consumes the entire magazine. Charge shot has 60% Status Chance but lower Critical Chance and has innate 2.0 Punch Through.)
-Angstrum Vandal (Suggestion note: Improved base Critical Chance to 25% and now has full IPS. The Magazine Capacity should be 5 instead of 3.)
-Sonicor Vandal (Suggestion note: Improved base Critical Chance to 25% and now deals both Impact and Slash. The Radial Attack is suggested to not be used on this weapon.)
-Lecta Vandal (Suggestion note: Improved base Critical Chance to 30%, and now can deal innate Radiation damage. A new mechanic for the Vandal variant is suggested too, which involves a chain damage effect when an enemy is hit and another enemy is near the target. Chain damage has a 100% Status Chance.)
-Kreska Vandal (Suggestion note: Improved Attack Speed and improved base Critical Chance to 30% and improved Base Damage. A new mechanic for the Vandal variant is suggested too, which involves inflicting Slash and Heat when you perform a Heavy Attack on enemies with a 100% Status Chance.)
 

Vandal Set Bonus Suggestion:

When equipped with a full set of Vandal weapons: All weapons gain +40% innate Electricity damage and improved Accuracy by 30%. Any Warframe that is equipped with a full set of Vandal weapons will gain +35% Power Range and +150% more base Shield capacity. I feel as though the Vandal weapons are Corpus based, so it would make sense to give them effects the Corpus would ultimately build around. Shields and Range are Corpus's best traits from what I have observed.

Kuva Weapon Suggestions:
-Kuva Zarr (Suggestion note: Improved Base Damage and Critical Chance, now carries 5 cannon balls in the Magazine. Alt Fire now will have Slash damage in addition.)
-Kuva Hek (Suggestion note: Improved Status Chance, now carries 18 shells in the Magazine. Weapon recoil is reduced at a tiny cost to Base Damage. A new mechanic for the Kuva variant is suggested too, which involves giving it an Alternate Fire that consumes 2 shells for an explosive shot that deals innate Fire damage with improved Critical Chance.)
-Twin Kuva Quatz (Suggestion note: This weapon will function differently for the Kuva variant compared to the regular, offering dual weilding and improved Critical Chance but doesn't have the same gimmick as the regular Quatz while aiming. The Twin Kuva Quatz will fire full automatic at all times and have a slightly faster Reload Speed, but they will produce Radiation instead of Electricity when you reload on an empty magazine.)
-Kuva Nukor weapon rework suggestion: The Kuva Nukor can detonate the microwave attacks at will with a new Alternate Fire function.
-Kuva Kesheg (Suggestion note: Improved base Attack Speed and base Critical Chance to 24% at a small cost to the Slam Attack damage and tiny cost to Status Chance. A new mechanic for the Kuva variant is suggested too, which involves giving Heavy Attacks a guaranteed Slash proc, and Heavy Attacks will have forward momentum while in use.)
-Kuva Jat Kusar (Suggestion note: Improved base Attack Speed and Status Chance at a tiny cost to Base Damage. A new mechanic for the Kuva variant is suggested too, which involves giving Spin Attacks extra Combo Chance and Heavy Attacks being significantly faster depending on Combo Count.)

Kuva Set Bonus Suggestion:

When equipped with a full set of Kuva weapons: All weapons gain +35% DR while blocking with a Melee weapon and -30% Recoil for Primary and Secondary weapons. Any Warframe that is equipped with a full set of Kuva weapons will gain +70% more Energy Max, +15% to Power Duration, Effeciency, Range, and Strength, and +130% more base Health capacity. The main concept behind Kuva weapons is that they offer unique capabilities and alternative stats from their original counterparts, and should reflect such with the suggested set bonus. The way the lore works is that they offer a bit of everything and can provide more energy for the Kuva Liches that use them as well as the Kuva Liches themselves. They have a lot more Health and overall stats versus regular Grineer, so it makes sense to have such for the Kuva weapon set bonus.

 

Prime Set Bonus Suggestion:

When equipped with a full set of Primed weapons: All weapons gain +30% extra Critical Chance, Primary and Secondary weapons gain +25% Magazine Capacity, and Melee weapons gain +0.5 extra Range. Any Warframe that is equipped with a full set of Primed weapons will gain innate +1.0 Energy regenerated per second and +25% extra Power Strength for Exalted Weapons.

I'd like more suggestions for enhancing weapon mechanics to make them more unique. I am someone who dislikes weapons being very powerful but boring to use. Gimmicks and functions over simple looks and fancy stats is what I had in mind.

[Quimoth]

While the idea is funny, most suffix/prefix weapons are already stronger than their default variants. A set bonus might give a little more incentive to use these aside from the occasional fashion frame you do.

The set bonuses you suggest however, are way over the top and should not make it into the game EVER. Especially the one for primed weapons, these weapons are always in the top tiers upon release and most remain in the top tiers even years later. On top of that, some of your set bonuses would rule out certain weapons/mods to be used in said set, mostly looking at charged/primed chamber. They would also actually force some warframes to use a set to be at their very sweet spot of power, instead of widening your choices, because they are way over the top and ridiculous.

[Cobalt313]

I feel like set bonuses of this variety should be minor or cosmetic in nature, less a mods' worth of advantage and more a bragging rights reward for obtaining a full set of "special" weapons.

[Scarlet-Rebel]

On 2020-09-16 at 1:12 AM, Quimoth said:

While the idea is funny, most suffix/prefix weapons are already stronger than their default variants. A set bonus might give a little more incentive to use these aside from the occasional fashion frame you do.

The set bonuses you suggest however, are way over the top and should not make it into the game EVER. Especially the one for primed weapons, these weapons are always in the top tiers upon release and most remain in the top tiers even years later. On top of that, some of your set bonuses would rule out certain weapons/mods to be used in said set, mostly looking at charged/primed chamber. They would also actually force some warframes to use a set to be at their very sweet spot of power, instead of widening your choices, because they are way over the top and ridiculous.

While I can agree they are a bit over the top, the problem is if you apply very minor or basic effects, or just fashion effects, the weapons would still not get used very often. The highest used Suffix weapons are Primed weapons. Others get used less often, even Kuva weapons. I do notice Kitguns and Zaws on occasion but not enough to typically be more used than Primed weapons. And I also think it's a bit strange to worry a lot about challenge and balance when Warframe seems to be in a power fantasy state. Someone else said this but you can't have both large levels of challenge & balance and power fantasy at the same time. I can tweak the suggestions for the set bonuses, just as much I can offer varying qualities of set bonuses if you mix and match weapons instead of only exclusively fully matching them. However I disagree that they are not needed. The build diversity we have right now is fairly mediecore.

As for the strength of the Suffix/Prefix weapons compared to their original counterparts: I do not think they are that much stronger personally. A small improvement in stats for most while a few have a moderate shift or varied shift in stats. And even fewer bring some kind of new gimmick or mechanic to the weapon. That's my other problem with these suffix/prefix weapons: They are boring to use most of the time, and in Warframe I think that's a crying shame. Unique gimmick weapons are not that strong typically because the worry about balance...but again, a power fantasy needs to worry about balance when we have Warframes like Saryn, Nova, Mag, Ember, or Limbo with their multi-target nuking capability?

[GrofZelen]

I like the suggestions, not gonna lie. Let Warframe be the power fantasy it wants to be. Doing something with the Vandal/Prisma named weapons would be beneficial and lead to more build diversity.

[Quimoth]

On 2020-09-16 at 7:44 PM, Scarlet-Rebel said:

While I can agree they are a bit over the top, the problem is if you apply very minor or basic effects, or just fashion effects, the weapons would still not get used very often. The highest used suffix weapons are Primed Weapons. Others get used less often, even Kuva weapons. I do notice Kitguns and Zaws on occasion but not enough to typically be more used than Primed weapons. And I also think it's a bit strange to worry a lot about challenge and balance when Warframe seems to be in a power fantasy state. Someone else said this but you can't have both large levels of challenge & balance and power fantasy at the same time. I can tweak the suggestions for the set bonuses, just as much I can offer varying qualities of set bonuses if you mix and match weapons instead of only exclusively fully matching them. However I disagree that they are not needed. The build diversity we have right now is fairly mediecore.

As for the strength of the suffix/prefix weapons compared to their original counterparts: I do not think they are that much stronger personally. A small improvement in stats for most while a few have a moderate shift or varied shift in stats. And even fewer bring some kind of new gimmick or mechanic to the weapon. That's my other problem with these suffix/prefix weapons: They are boring to use most of the time, and in Warframe I think that's a crying shame. Unique gimmick weapons are not that strong typically because the worry about balance...but again, a power fantasy needs to worry about balance when we have Warframes like Saryn, Nova, Mag, Ember, or Limbo with their multi-target nuking capability?

We already have sufficient strength if you look for the proper builds. Kuva Nukor, Catchmoon, Opticor (vandal is a great side option i've got 5 forma on both), Kuva Chakkhurr, Kuva Kohm, Kuva Tonkor, etc. etc. are all really strong and would be beyond ridiculous if buffed (most have been nerfed a lot already).

 

Also, if you read the latest patch notes you should know that while warframe is a power fantasy, DE does want to keep it somewhat in check. All the frames you named have had (some say major) nerfs in the past. The latest fun build i used was marked for death on random frames with my Fragor Prime heavy attack builds... heck i can remove that ability from all frames because of that one infamous ash build people used. The bonuses you suggested are a million times stronger than most mods sets currently offer and those make you PAY mod slots/capacity for it. How on earth do you see such buffs fitting in the game without instantly becoming new meta and destroying DE's primary cash flow, the prime access bundles?

Enough about my cons. I do think the non-primed suffix/prefix sets could use a tiny set bonus since they are themed and aren't the complete top of the bill.

It would make sense to:

• give prisma weapons some void/energy related bonus.
• give vandal weapons a boost to electricty or puncture damage on corpus weapons (or maybe an increased status chance or duration)
• give wraith weapons a boost to blast or slash damage or maybe even give an innate explosion stagger reduction or range increase.

On any other sets I would probably just frown... kuva and prime weapons are all really strong and modular weapons are to be made to fit your play-style, not fit a certain set bonus that is good.

 

[Scarlet-Rebel]

10 hours ago, Quimoth said:

We already have sufficient strength if you look for the proper builds. Kuva Nukor, Catchmoon, Opticor (vandal is a great side option i've got 5 forma on both), Kuva Chakkhurr, Kuva Kohm, Kuva Tonkor, etc. etc. are all really strong and would be beyond ridiculous if buffed (most have been nerfed a lot already).

 

Also, if you read the latest patch notes you should know that while warframe is a power fantasy, DE does want to keep it somewhat in check. All the frames you named have had (some say major) nerfs in the past. The latest fun build i used was marked for death on random frames with my Fragor Prime heavy attack builds... heck i can remove that ability from all frames because of that one infamous ash build people used. The bonuses you suggested are a million times stronger than most mods sets currently offer and those make you PAY mod slots/capacity for it. How on earth do you see such buffs fitting in the game without instantly becoming new meta and destroying DE's primary cash flow, the prime access bundles?

Enough about my cons. I do think the non-primed suffix/prefix sets could use a tiny set bonus since they are themed and aren't the complete top of the bill.

It would make sense to:

• give prisma weapons some void/energy related bonus.
• give vandal weapons a boost to electricty or puncture damage on corpus weapons (or maybe an increased status chance or duration)
• give wraith weapons a boost to blast or slash damage or maybe even give an innate explosion stagger reduction or range increase.

On any other sets I would probably just frown... kuva and prime weapons are all really strong and modular weapons are to be made to fit your play-style, not fit a certain set bonus that is good.

 

Tell me, what kind of game do you like to play when you are playing Warframe? I know this question is odd, but bear with me. Do you want a challenging game or a power fantasy? And despite those nerfs, that doesn't mean those Warframes still don't nuke the battlefield. And also: Octavia still exists. And so does any other Warframe that deals insane/massive damage. I understand where you're coming from on the Primed Weapons already being overpowered, but I'm one of those weirdos who thinks Rivens were a mistake (possibly) and I more side with people like The Reaper Hunter or Cephalon Jizo who want more unique things in the game instead of "just more power creep". Thanks for your feedback/criticism by the way, but I think you may be missing the point. The set bonuses I am suggesting are nowhere near as powerful as you are suggesting with words like "a million times stronger". Silencing weapons or percentages lower than 70% are somehow "a million times more powerful" than Rivens? I can drop the Primed Weapon set bonuses but...I still stand by my original statement of adding unique powers to weapons and not just making another boring weapon with no gimmick or special function. Maybe it's the wrong kind of game to add that but I don't see why not since it would shake off the reputation of most gimmick weapons being trashy or mediecore at best. And despite your comments I still think we do not have enough build diversity and the top most used Suffix weapons are still Primed. Vastly improved enemy behavior and A.I. would help but it wouldn't completely fix the problem of boring weapons. The Arca Titron is my favorite heavy melee next to the Wolf Sledge...because of the unique gimmicks involving it. It also happens to be the strongest heavy melee I've ever used in Warframe. And that should be the standard in this game. Not the exception to the rule (the rule right now is boring OP weapons are king, for the most part).

[Scarlet-Rebel]

I also must mention that strength does not dictate the weapon's quality. No matter how strong any current existing non Primed and non Kuva weapon, they will still not get used as much as Primed weapons, with Kuva weapons being a close second. Not without a proper incentive to go full in. I'm unwilling to simply accept "but these weapons are already powerful enough" as an arguement when the usage of them doesn't take into account their power. A set bonus for certain weapon Suffixes will encourage more build diversity for other Warframes, like Ash or Ivara for more stealth orientation for example if you consider my suggestion for Wraith Weapons. A weapon's quality, in my opinion, is dictated on how fun it is. If Warframe's intended to be more unique, it's time to drop boring weapons, or at least add more functions/gimmicks to them. I love my Kuva Karak but even I get bored of it. The fact that "boring weapons" exist and that the defense for them is "just use another weapon" also exists is silly and not helpful for a subjectively good Warframe experience.

[Quimoth]

Warframe already is a power fantasy.

On my most used weapon list is only 1 prime weapon. It is your right to THINK that primed weapons are the only viable options but that is your OPINION and I am pretty sure many people will back me when I say that there are MANY non primed weapons that are better/equally strong and more fun to use.

Primaries that I use the most these past months are:

Kuva Chakkhurr

Kuva Tonkor

Kuva Ogris

Ignis wraith

Opticor Vandal

Lanka

Prisma Grakata (really fun with the wild frenzy mod and the right riven, come to think of it i want to test the ammunition helminth ability with it.)

Trumna

Tigris Prime

Rubico Prime

 

Notice anything? I can assure you my top 3 most used primary and secondary are all without the prime suffix.

If there is any category where I do feel prime variants are still my favorites/most used its the melee category... but even there I could easily go furax wraith, secura lecta or any good zaw I've built.

 

Especially with most kuva weapons you REALLY do not need any set bonus. Most have innate high crit chance or status chance allowing to synergize with mods like hunter muntions or a good melee with condition overload.

Like i said, a set bonus simply wouldn't make sense to me on anything aside from the prisma/vandal/wraith sets. Those are the sets with arguably weak and sometimes even useless weapons. However most of the weapons in these sets have a unique mechanic that sets them aside already, which is why I feel perfectly fine using some wraith/vandal/prisma weapons even without set bonuses.

[Scarlet-Rebel]

7 hours ago, Quimoth said:

Warframe already is a power fantasy.

On my most used weapon list is only 1 prime weapon. It is your right to THINK that primed weapons are the only viable options but that is your OPINION and I am pretty sure many people will back me when I say that there are MANY non primed weapons that are better/equally strong and more fun to use.

Primaries that I use the most these past months are:

Kuva Chakkhurr

Kuva Tonkor

Kuva Ogris

Ignis wraith

Opticor Vandal

Lanka

Prisma Grakata (really fun with the wild frenzy mod and the right riven, come to think of it i want to test the ammunition helminth ability with it.)

Trumna

Tigris Prime

Rubico Prime

 

Notice anything? I can assure you my top 3 most used primary and secondary are all without the prime suffix.

If there is any category where I do feel prime variants are still my favorites/most used its the melee category... but even there I could easily go furax wraith, secura lecta or any good zaw I've built.

 

Especially with most kuva weapons you REALLY do not need any set bonus. Most have innate high crit chance or status chance allowing to synergize with mods like hunter muntions or a good melee with condition overload.

Like i said, a set bonus simply wouldn't make sense to me on anything aside from the prisma/vandal/wraith sets. Those are the sets with arguably weak and sometimes even useless weapons. However most of the weapons in these sets have a unique mechanic that sets them aside already, which is why I feel perfectly fine using some wraith/vandal/prisma weapons even without set bonuses.

If Warframe is a power fantasy already there would be no need to constantly nerf things then. I guess people would complain if no nerf was done...but whatever. And yes I noticed your set up doesn't include that many Primed weapons but that does not somehow disprove what I suggested. If many people would back you up on what you said I'd like for them to speak up instead of someone else speaking for them. And your phrasing seems very hyperbolic. Also: Rivens? Really? Those somehow compensate for lack of fun mechanics or gimmicks? I'm sorry but even with a Riven, Prisma Grakata's kinda boring. It just seems like a bog standard Grineer Submachine Gun. Yes I know we could say the same thing for the Twin Grakata, but those are just a meme as well as just kinda being boring. Again, power doesn't equate to weapon quality. The fact that you have to install a mod to make the Grakata/Prisma Grakata less boring and "more powerful" seems like a band aid, similar to how half of the Frame Augments are for Warframes. I also didn't get an answer to my question about what kind of game do you want to play when you boot up Warframe.

The fact that you included the Tigris Prime is a bit ironic to me as that Shotgun eclipses almost every other weapon in your arsenal that you displayed. I like the Ignis Wraith as well, and it is a unique take on flamethrowers...but that's just one weapon, again. That has to be the standard. The Tigris Prime however yeets everything in general. Kitguns cannot compare to that weapon...seriously. It may not have the Critical Hit Chance that a Gaze Primary or Secondary has, but it doesn't matter. Status based weapons are quite powerful now.

Mods cannot be used as a fix for weapons that are boring. The weapon itself has to function without modding it. The mods are a bonus or are meant to augment the weapon.

Kuva variants of Grineer weapons trump their existing variants in the Wraith or Prisma department but offer nothing new to the table apart from varying stats. And what unique gimmick or mechanic are we talking about for the weapons that have them?

Is what you're saying just an opinion? Then I think it's hyperbolic. And I disagree, almost all Kuva weapons and a large portion of Primed weapons bring nothing new to the table from their original counterparts. The Kuva Brama perhaps is unique, yes, but that's just one weapon. And the unique mechanics or gimmicks of most other weapons of that kind are typically not great, or the weapons themselves are over-reliant on the gimmick or mechanic to compensate for a lackluster base weapon. Again, I think you're missing the point. If you want a non melee example of what I'm talking about, look at the Athodai. A strong pistol with an even stronger mechanic. And in terms of Kuva Weapons being "stronger than Primed". I'm sorry but no way. The Kuva Karak does not compare to the Panthera Prime, and that's both in function and stats. The Rubico Prime smokes the Vulkar Wraith. And the Prisma Grakata is nowhere near the same level as a Baza Prime. And those Primed weapons do not need a single mod to use their unique mechanics. The Panthera Prime launches sharp disc based bullets of sorts that slash up enemies really good with its primary fire, while its alt fire tears through enemies using a strong and ammo effecient laser. The Baza Prime is natively silent and in my opinion better than the Soma Prime due to being more compact, faster to reload, and supremely more accurate. It's perfect for stealth missions and is a lot more fun to play with compared to other SMGs I've played with. Yes, that's subjective, I know. And again: How are my set bonus suggestions remotely powerful enough to force people when Rivens exist and we have mods that give 100%+ Base Damage or Multishot or whatever other stat? How are my set bonus suggestions remotely even on par with something like Rhino's Roar (proper Rhino, not Hemelinth), or Mirage's Eclipse?

[Quimoth]

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The fact that you have to install a mod to make the Grakata/Prisma Grakata less boring and "more powerful" seems like a band aid, similar to how half of the Frame Augments are for Warframes. I also didn't get an answer to my question about what kind of game do you want to play when you boot up Warframe.

Welcome to warframe, NOTHING IS GOOD WITHOUT MODS. Special augments are meant to allow for new ways to use your weapons. Wild frenzy is really funny and my prisma grakata can empty its mag on steel path enemies and get the ammo refund. Heck, I can even use it for boss fights because of the energized munitions allowing for mini-gun like behavior (although its alt-fire is currently broken with the energized munitions on)

Go and try ANY weapon without mods, they are all complete garbage if you do not mod properly. Try modding a weapon with 4% crit chance for crits... it won't work. Try modding that same weapon for status, WOW IT WORKS.... jeez what a surprise. Combining mods, frames, weapons, arcanes is all that min-maxing is about and is actually something you suggested yourself, only you suggest a way that limits you even more than the current systems do.

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Kuva variants of Grineer weapons trump their existing variants in the Wraith or Prisma department but offer nothing new to the table apart from varying stats. And what unique gimmick or mechanic are we talking about for the weapons that have them?

The Kuva Ogris is unique compared to the original variant, as it employs physical damage instead of just Blast damage, even on the explosion. While the weapon still has Blast damage included within the explosion, it also deals Slash and Puncture damage, being one of the only explosive weapons that can deal radial slash procs innately without  Hunter Munitions.

Kuva Seer: It also uniquely fires Corrosive projectiles that burst on contact.

Kuva Nukor: Its beam has also gained the ability to chain between multiple enemies.

Kuva Kraken: The Alternate Fire allows it to eject all magazine in a single concentrated burst.

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The fact that you included the Tigris Prime is a bit ironic to me as that Shotgun eclipses almost every other weapon in your arsenal that you displayed. I like the Ignis Wraith as well, and it is a unique take on flamethrowers...but that's just one weapon, again. That has to be the standard. The Tigris Prime however yeets everything in general.

I can give a plethora of situations in which the tigris prime is actually complete garbage because of its low fire-rate and the enemies being (partly) status immune. Different situations call for different solutions. Go and try some steel path without the typical cheese builds and use your tigris prime there. Also are you ignoring the fact that you called all kuva weapons less than their prime variants? Kuva weapons beat the S#&$ out of enemies, even in steel path.

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And I disagree, almost all Kuva weapons and a large portion of Primed weapons bring nothing new to the table from their original counterparts

This has always been the case and would require way to much work and would only further increase the strength of my argument to NOT give primed weapons any further enhancements. The fact that almost all kuva weapons can suddenly be used for hybrid builds with an extra innate element is something you keep underestimating, go ask some people who actually do endurance runs how they feel about kuva weapons. I do not do endurance runs that much so I can totally see how you do not feel the need to use kuva weapons... but that doesn't mean they are suddenly not S tier. Kuva weapons are S tier with a few exceptions being B+ or A tier.

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And in terms of Kuva Weapons being "stronger than Primed". I'm sorry but no way. The Kuva Karak does not compare to the Panthera Prime, and that's both in function and stats.

Yes lets compare a glaive to a gunblade... thats about how much sense your comparison just made. Go and compare soma prime to the kuva karak. Or baza prime to kuva karak. those comparisons make some actual sense and im pretty sure we can get builds on the kuva karak that cause it to out-class both prime weapons. The kuva karak can get its status and crit chance to near and/or over 100% even in hybrid builds. Try that on your baza prime.

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And again: How are my set bonus suggestions remotely powerful enough to force people when Rivens exist and we have mods that give 100%+ Base Damage or Multishot or whatever other stat? How are my set bonus suggestions remotely even on par with something like Rhino's Roar (proper Rhino, not Hemelinth), or Mirage's Eclipse?

Each and every set bonus you suggest is 100x stronger than what we would normally get by slapping at least 2 mods that COST MOD CAPACITY on our weapons. Just take a look at mod sets. Which mod set comes even remotely close to any of your suggested set bonuses? Yet it is still quite common to use some of these mods to further amp a certain stat. Heck i often slap them on sentinel/moa weapons for the slight bonus they give. On top of that, these sets don't force you to equip all mods. However they still have COSTS involved. The only cost of your set is having just primed/kuva/prisma/vandal/wraith gear??? It would only further reinforce the monotone loadouts of primed and kuva gear. Because those weapons simply outclass all other weapons. The latter being for a reason, there goes more effort into farming those weapons!

 

Again, a set bonus for prisma/wraith/vandal weapons makes sense to me, those weapons are somewhat hard to obtain yet rarely ever shine (like wow, supra and tetra vandal are actually not even capable of doing steel path with a riven). Primed and kuva weapons are already the best of the best, they do not need any further buffs like a set bonus.

[Scarlet-Rebel]

On 2020-09-21 at 3:49 AM, Quimoth said:

Welcome to warframe, NOTHING IS GOOD WITHOUT MODS. Special augments are meant to allow for new ways to use your weapons. Wild frenzy is really funny and my prisma grakata can empty its mag on steel path enemies and get the ammo refund. Heck, I can even use it for boss fights because of the energized munitions allowing for mini-gun like behavior (although its alt-fire is currently broken with the energized munitions on)

Go and try ANY weapon without mods, they are all complete garbage if you do not mod properly. Try modding a weapon with 4% crit chance for crits... it won't work. Try modding that same weapon for status, WOW IT WORKS.... jeez what a surprise. Combining mods, frames, weapons, arcanes is all that min-maxing is about and is actually something you suggested yourself, only you suggest a way that limits you even more than the current systems do.

The Kuva Ogris is unique compared to the original variant, as it employs physical damage instead of just Blast damage, even on the explosion. While the weapon still has Blast damage included within the explosion, it also deals Slash and Puncture damage, being one of the only explosive weapons that can deal radial slash procs innately without  Hunter Munitions.

Kuva Seer: It also uniquely fires Corrosive projectiles that burst on contact.

Kuva Nukor: Its beam has also gained the ability to chain between multiple enemies.

Kuva Kraken: The Alternate Fire allows it to eject all magazine in a single concentrated burst.

I can give a plethora of situations in which the tigris prime is actually complete garbage because of its low fire-rate and the enemies being (partly) status immune. Different situations call for different solutions. Go and try some steel path without the typical cheese builds and use your tigris prime there. Also are you ignoring the fact that you called all kuva weapons less than their prime variants? Kuva weapons beat the S#&$ out of enemies, even in steel path.

This has always been the case and would require way to much work and would only further increase the strength of my argument to NOT give primed weapons any further enhancements. The fact that almost all kuva weapons can suddenly be used for hybrid builds with an extra innate element is something you keep underestimating, go ask some people who actually do endurance runs how they feel about kuva weapons. I do not do endurance runs that much so I can totally see how you do not feel the need to use kuva weapons... but that doesn't mean they are suddenly not S tier. Kuva weapons are S tier with a few exceptions being B+ or A tier.

Yes lets compare a glaive to a gunblade... thats about how much sense your comparison just made. Go and compare soma prime to the kuva karak. Or baza prime to kuva karak. those comparisons make some actual sense and im pretty sure we can get builds on the kuva karak that cause it to out-class both prime weapons. The kuva karak can get its status and crit chance to near and/or over 100% even in hybrid builds. Try that on your baza prime.

Each and every set bonus you suggest is 100x stronger than what we would normally get by slapping at least 2 mods that COST MOD CAPACITY on our weapons. Just take a look at mod sets. Which mod set comes even remotely close to any of your suggested set bonuses? Yet it is still quite common to use some of these mods to further amp a certain stat. Heck i often slap them on sentinel/moa weapons for the slight bonus they give. On top of that, these sets don't force you to equip all mods. However they still have COSTS involved. The only cost of your set is having just primed/kuva/prisma/vandal/wraith gear??? It would only further reinforce the monotone loadouts of primed and kuva gear. Because those weapons simply outclass all other weapons. The latter being for a reason, there goes more effort into farming those weapons!

 

Again, a set bonus for prisma/wraith/vandal weapons makes sense to me, those weapons are somewhat hard to obtain yet rarely ever shine (like wow, supra and tetra vandal are actually not even capable of doing steel path with a riven). Primed and kuva weapons are already the best of the best, they do not need any further buffs like a set bonus.

Hyperbolic, again. And the weapons you brought up. Those are not the rule. Those are again exceptions. If every single Kuva Weapon was like that then I'd stand corrected. And you also are mistaken: The Panthera Prime and the Kuva Karak are Primary Rifles that have Automatic Fire. I compared an Automatic Priamry to an Automatic Primary, I don't see how it's a bad comparison? And also: 100x stronger? Please prove it. All you're doing is saying hyperbolic statements and not proving anything apart from exceptions to the rule. Also: Excuse me but I wasn't comparing the Baza Prime to a Kuva weapon, I was comparing that weapon to a Prisma Grakata. Why are you so aggressive? So much hostility...are you a Founder? And also: Nobody said "go modless" on weapons, I said relying on specific augment mods to make weapons acceptable. So the Prisma Grakata is boring without applying this mod that I could potentially replace with something else instead of that Augment Mod being default? This mod clearly is not a "side grade" but a direct upgrade for the weapon. And also: "Rivens". Hey you can apply a Riven to any weapon, now what? Seriously, calm down. My set bonuses come nowhere near your hyperbolic statements suggest. You seem to think I'm one of those "Solo Endurance Run" players but I'm not, and I'm not judging weapons based on my personal usage. You are though. Since this is a public forum, why not let others speak up about this? I don't mind others opinions or critique but you seem very much like an elitist. "SPEAK IN ALL CAPS, ACT LIKE I KNOW THE GAME, MY OPINIONS ARE FACTS!" There is a cost to using set bonuses like I am suggesting: Consideration of bonuses. If you only give Wraith Prisma and Vandal set bonuses then people wouldn't use Kuva and Primed as much because they miss out on some nice effects and this frees up a mod slot for some other mods that are optional or normally not used too often.

[Quimoth]

my prisma grakata riven would like a word with your uneducated statement. I put wild frenzy on for fun, not because it is actually that epic, against steel path enemies i rather not try to empty a full mag when its a nox or heavy gunner. However the 3.4 multishot and 124% crit chance still do fine on him.

I don't know if you realize, but while I have been providing some criticism, all you say is "you're being hyperbolic "😭. You're the one starting to make personal attacks.

I simply do not see any reason to buff ALL prime and kuva weapons with a set bonus. This wouldn't "solve" anything, it is merely a great way to stomp every single non-prime weapon into the already immense pit of mastery fodder. That is my issue with your suggestion. Those kuva weapons without special effects... well guess what, their base stats are so ridiculous that once you've gotten them to lvl 40 you won't need any effects.

 

PS. since you're to f*@#% sure you're an absolute genius I'll stop trying to explain how stupid buffing prime and kuva weapons is. I kept saying I liked the idea if it were to be applied to the other suffix weapons. This is called CRITICISM. It seems you're so entitled to be 100% right about everything that you need to make personal attacks instead of reading trough my entire post and coming with actual arguments. If you think I am being "elitist" and not making arguments, the best way of showing would be NOT to make any personal attacks and fight the arguments like I've done so far. If you think me telling you you do not know how strong weapons are is a personal attack, that is totally your issue. In another post about the helminth I made the mistake to say breach surge is a bad subsumed ability, I was wrong and I admit that, because I simply haven't been playing around enough with different mods/setups for wisp.

[Quimoth]

Oh and on a side note, don't edit your posts this much. It doesn't make the discussion any more readable/understandable.

Also, for an elitist I seem to be the only one actually taking the effort on commenting on this. I guess Prisma grakata is the #1 weapon in the game right now.

[SpicyDinosaur]

So this is too long to sift through for this one thing but does the OP mean prefix or am I losing my mind? Some of the weapons have suffixes, but prisma, for example, is a prefix.

[Quimoth]

On 2020-09-28 at 12:53 PM, SpicyDinosaur said:

So this is too long to sift through for this one thing but does the OP mean prefix or am I losing my mind? Some of the weapons have suffixes, but prisma, for example, is a prefix.

He means both. All possible prefixes and suffixes there are.

[SpicyDinosaur]

1 hour ago, Quimoth said:

He means both. All possible prefixes and suffixes there are.

ahh, got it!