Discussion about Revenant survivability and base status.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

when you take take 20 hits in a row without taking any damage, you have a better health gating system than defense alone provides..

Back in my days in FF11, the first MMO final fantasy, we had Ninja tanks..

 

the Ninja class was envisioned as a damage dealer by the developers, intetionally fragile and easy to deal severe damage to..

however a single spell that Ninjas have caused the playerbase to realise its true potential.. they became first class tanks, second only to Paladin when i played.

simply put, Utsusemi: Ichi and Utsusemi: Ni worked like mesmer skin.. the base effect by description "create shadows that take damage in your place". the actual ingame effect was literally just casting the ability and dont take damage for a certain number of single target hits.. for the low level version of the spell this was only 2 hits before you had to recast, the second level provided 3 and cast faster... AOE attacks wiped out all shadows.

 

Mesmerskin is LEAGUES above Utsusemi provided... my vault build provides TWENTY shadows, and when a shadow is consumed, the offending target is stunned for well over 10s. this means that in a room of 20 enemies attacking at range, they can each only land one hit on you before they are stunned more than long enough to clear them and the rest of the room.. you can recast this ability as fast Ninjas in FF11 could recast Utsusemi: Ni.. more than fast enough to take no health damage at all thanks to shield gating. add in the fact that AOE doesn't even affect the skin count at all, letting no damage through and the fact that the skin provides full knockdown and Status immunity... well i doubt Square Enix would ever have willingly put something like that in such a finely tuned MMO...

 

so ya... the synergies between his first and fourth are stupid (why does the pillars of free damage get destroyed DE?) but no matter how low Revenants shields and health are, Mesmer Skin single handedly provides more survibility than any other ability in this game.

for referance, 20 is the number of skin charges my "normal" revenant build has.. he also has Rhino Roar which provides 100% damage for 75 seconds. i use this to wipe the floor with dead necromech faces.

[ThorienKELL]

6 hours ago, vegetosayajin said:

very very far from max tbh
he can get 1 shot above lv500 no prob
If you don't get another ability from helminth he is still bad

 

6 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

Sure. Give me an Inaros lesson.  
Immortal vs. what lvl enemies? Max lvl? If you can find proof of that then I'd love to see it. As far as I know any amount of hp regen, damage reduction, armor or anything else Inaros can use for survivability will eventually fail. 

Look, if you wanna impose some arbitrary rules on yourself then surely inaros isn't "quite there". There is no technical or logical reason why would anyone want to play lvl 500 or level 10 000. Unless if it makes you happy but that's has nothing to do with game content. Warframe isn't balanced or competitive game. There are sets of tools which utilize cc and /or OP melee combinations that will allow you to play whatever level, it has nothing to do with skill or gains, it's not achievement, all you have to do is invest tons of time - it's just arbitrary and irrelevant - but each to it's own. 

But if we talk about game content in general, inaros has no problem and it's pretty much unkillable, if you play it with minimal care. Inaros can sit among mid-lower lvl enemies doing nothing, like 30 on them and they won't be able to reduce his health. I use it as professional kuva farmer, which means daily kuva floods lvl up to 100. Sorties, of course, steel path, ESO and anything else really. He never ever dies, I cannot remember last time I need to be revived honestly. 

He maximizes his health using all health mods and with arcane grace can reach insane levels of health regen because grace was never planned to get used on such massive health pools. Ofc it did took a nerf recently when they allowed us using single arcane instead of double but now that single is more powerful. Otherwise you're using negation swarm augment that prevents status proccs with scarab armor (no knockdowns) and Adaptation. You manage your health with combination of pocket sand and executing finishers on most of trash mobs which nets you 1k health quickly  (finishers animation is affected by weapon class and speed). His [2] is here just as reserve if enemy type is unfavorable (has to be generally humanoid) but it will provide you with immortality on button push for certain time while you are feasting. 

My inaros has 7,13K health (his kavat has 12k lol) with 472 armor /+900 with guardian =almost 1.4k amor which is around 83% damage mitigation. Don't forget adaptation on top of this. Grace will give it 428 health regen per second for 9s (3,85K overall)

[bejuizb]

I dunno dude. My Revenant's sitting on 15 charges of Mesmer Skin and also has Rolling Guard for when those charges drop. Dude never dies. 

[Electropuncher]

(Mesmer Skin on mine has 9 charges) ...You're taking damage?

[vegetosayajin]

48 minutes ago, (NSW)Electropuncher said:

(Mesmer Skin on mine has 9 charges) ...You're taking damage?

they scale/number increase with power, watch the video
mine has 19 but if you mod him insanely it could go over 22

[Berzerkules]

3 hours ago, ThorienKELL said:

 

Look, if you wanna impose some arbitrary rules on yourself then surely inaros isn't "quite there". There is no technical or logical reason why would anyone want to play lvl 500 or level 10 000. Unless if it makes you happy but that's has nothing to do with game content. Warframe isn't balanced or competitive game. There are sets of tools which utilize cc and /or OP melee combinations that will allow you to play whatever level, it has nothing to do with skill or gains, it's not achievement, all you have to do is invest tons of time - it's just arbitrary and irrelevant - but each to it's own. 

But if we talk about game content in general, inaros has no problem and it's pretty much unkillable, if you play it with minimal care. Inaros can sit among mid-lower lvl enemies doing nothing, like 30 on them and they won't be able to reduce his health. I use it as professional kuva farmer, which means daily kuva floods lvl up to 100. Sorties, of course, steel path, ESO and anything else really. He never ever dies, I cannot remember last time I need to be revived honestly. 

He maximizes his health using all health mods and with arcane grace can reach insane levels of health regen because grace was never planned to get used on such massive health pools. Ofc it did took a nerf recently when they allowed us using single arcane instead of double but now that single is more powerful. Otherwise you're using negation swarm augment that prevents status proccs with scarab armor (no knockdowns) and Adaptation. You manage your health with combination of pocket sand and executing finishers on most of trash mobs which nets you 1k health quickly  (finishers animation is affected by weapon class and speed). His [2] is here just as reserve if enemy type is unfavorable (has to be generally humanoid) but it will provide you with immortality on button push for certain time while you are feasting. 

My inaros has 7,13K health (his kavat has 12k lol) with 472 armor /+900 with guardian =almost 1.4k amor which is around 83% damage mitigation. Don't forget adaptation on top of this. Grace will give it 428 health regen per second for 9s (3,85K overall)

You claimed that you had an immortal Inaros build, then add the qualifier that for normal content he's "pretty much unkillable". I can run a 300 hp Mag through "normal content" and only die if I make a mistake. That does not make mag immortal. She can just easily reset her shield gate and tank an infinite amount of damage to her shields and never take damage to her health. 

My normal content isn't the same as yours. I enjoy long endurance runs. A couple days ago I ran 5h+ Steel Path kuva survival on a 300 hp Mag against lvl 6k+ enemies. I only died when I was typing in chat. An Inaros would not stand a chance half way through that mission. Adaptation, Healing Return, Arcane Grace and Arcane Guardian would do nothing for him if he takes fatal damage in one hit. His survivability comes from hp regen, damage reduction and armor that he gets when he takes damage, that is totally worthless when he gets one shot. Every other frame in the game can tank an infinite amount of damage once, survive to reset their shield gate and do it again. Inaros might actually be the worst tank in the game since he is the only frame capable of being one shot. 

If you want a real tank just use Revenant. His mesmer skin negates 100% damage and you can easily recast it. 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

The frame needs a complete rework.

3/4 of his abilities need to be gutted out and replaced with abilities that actually represent Eidolons, and not just a vampire with Eidolon face paint.

Also, you get a like for simply daring to say Revenant has something bad about him here. Don’t let these smooth brains deter you.

[Galuf]

Read you freaking abilities descriptions

It is another revenant is S#&$ty thread.

I think that the frame is too easy to get compared to other more skill intensive frames. I'm pretty sure the players *@##$ing about it are very low mr and have played only NPE frames before like Protea or Gauss that have more streamlined QoL.

Revenant is probably the best extermination speedrun frame as you kill everything in a huge radius while spamming a pretty decent movement skill and it has the most relaxed way of tanking of the whole roster, most frames don't scale well at all survivability wise(get perma os at a point) or rely on some very active shieldgating playstyles. Revenant doesn't care at all, worst case scenario you get the whole map aggro and mesmerskin gets depleted, you still have 1.3 sec to recast it while the vast majority of enemies around you are stunned.

[Electropuncher]

8 hours ago, vegetosayajin said:

they scale/number increase with power, watch the video
mine has 19 but if you mod him insanely it could go over 22

You... you're proving my point.

[vegetosayajin]

26 minutes ago, (NSW)Electropuncher said:

You... you're proving my point.

What point? You talked about damage, I said it is for defense and damage.

 

[gouki123]

2 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

The frame needs a complete rework.

3/4 of his abilities need to be gutted out and replaced with abilities that actually represent Eidolons, and not just a vampire with Eidolon face paint.

Also, you get a like for simply daring to say Revenant has something bad about him here. Don’t let these smooth brains deter you.

I agree, the only ability in Revenant that is Eidolon-Related is Reave, because is a big Vommalyst dash, Dance Macabre is acceptable because it copies the battalyst long-range attack, making it sentinent-related.

But the rest...came probably from the Man in the Wall or something else, because they have NOTHING similar to eidolons, vommalysts or sentinents.

[gouki123]

46 minutes ago, Galuf said:

Read you freaking abilities descriptions

It is another revenant is S#&$ty thread.

I think that the frame is too easy to get compared to other more skill intensive frames. I'm pretty sure the players *@##$ing about it are very low mr and have played only NPE frames before like Protea or Gauss that have more streamlined QoL.

Revenant is probably the best extermination speedrun frame as you kill everything in a huge radius while spamming a pretty decent movement skill and it has the most relaxed way of tanking of the whole roster, most frames don't scale well at all survivability wise(get perma os at a point) or rely on some very active shieldgating playstyles. Revenant doesn't care at all, worst case scenario you get the whole map aggro and mesmerskin gets depleted, you still have 1.3 sec to recast it while the vast majority of enemies around you are stunned.

I agree, Revenant is a very good Warframe, even in endgame missions where the enemies have lv120 or more.

But there is one thing that Revenant lacks:

Lore-related abilities.

[Electropuncher]

24 minutes ago, vegetosayajin said:

What point? You talked about damage, I said it is for defense and damage.

I never mentioned dealing damage. I said "you guys are taking damage?" Meaning Mesmer Skin being up means no damage comes in.

Revenant is actually a well designed frame with an overtuned 4. I just find it funny that people get caught up on him being barely "Sentient" themed, when the lore pretty much outright states he's another frame that was corrupted by Sentients. When (if) we get Rev Prime, I'm sure Rebb will get her wish and we'll have our proper vampire theme. That is unless Scott, Steve, and Geoff want to spite her.

[vegetosayajin]

23 minutes ago, (NSW)Electropuncher said:

I never mentioned dealing damage. I said "you guys are taking damage?" Meaning Mesmer Skin being up means no damage comes in.

Oh I read it wrong then.
No I'm not taking damage in 99% of cases.
There are nullies of course but that's why you have to be somewhat careful.
 

 

25 minutes ago, (NSW)Electropuncher said:

Revenant is actually a well designed frame with an overtuned 4. I just find it funny that people get caught up on him being barely "Sentient" themed, when the lore pretty much outright states he's another frame that was corrupted by Sentients. When (if) we get Rev Prime, I'm sure Rebb will get her wish and we'll have our proper vampire theme. That is unless Scott, Steve, and Geoff want to spite her.

idd

I always thought the vampire themed wf was garuda.

[Electropuncher]

Just now, vegetosayajin said:

I always thought the vampire themed wf was garuda.

I mean, kinda, but not really? If you follow the devstreams, you know Rebb really has a thing for vampires. Revenant was originally meant to be a vampire, but was changed to a Sentient theme after key art was done, IIRC. Garuda is really more the "gore" themed frame, despite having a helmet named "Bathory." Given her Tennogen, she's kind of more of a dragon (Tiamat). A garuda in reality is a bird-like divine being in South Asian religions that resembles a kite. Most famously, India uses the garuda as their air force's emblem, as Vishnu's mount is a garuda. How that translates to "bloodsucker," I have no idea, and you'd probably have to ask Geoff.

[ThorienKELL]

6 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

You claimed that you had an immortal Inaros build, then add the qualifier that for normal content he's "pretty much unkillable".

A couple days ago I ran 5h+ Steel Path kuva survival 

If you want a real tank just use Revenant. His mesmer skin negates 100% damage and you can easily recast it. 

And it's true, properly built inaros is one of most tanky frames in the game, if we speak about regular content. If I wanna do something difficult, like arbitrations and not pay too much attention he is my top candidate. Besides, who the f--k does 5 hours kuva survivals? That is no criteria to judge any frame. It's not that my frames cannot withstand 5hrs of mission, but my back can't. 

I am using rev, mostly on index he's invaluable there. I would probably use it more if I had need to do so, I value inaros more cause he can get mass heal for the team if they get sloppy spreading contagious scarabs thru his 4, plus has quick and easy cc. 

[Berzerkules]

Just now, ThorienKELL said:

And it's true, properly built inaros is one of most tanky frames in the game, if we speak about regular content. If I wanna do something difficult, like arbitrations and not pay too much attention he is my top candidate. Besides, who the f--k does 5 hours kuva survivals? That is no criteria to judge any frame. It's not that my frames cannot withstand 5hrs of mission, but my back can't. 

I am using rev, mostly on index he's invaluable there. I would probably use it more if I had need to do so, I value inaros more cause he can get mass heal for the team if they get sloppy spreading contagious scarabs thru his 4, plus has quick and easy cc. 

Would a Steel Path Frost specter a good metric to judge a tank frame? Is that considered normal content for an immortal tank? It's only one of the junctions to get off earth. Shouldn't be a problem, but it is. 

 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

4 hours ago, gouki123 said:

I agree, the only ability in Revenant that is Eidolon-Related is Reave, because is a big Vommalyst dash, Dance Macabre is acceptable because it copies the battalyst long-range attack, making it sentinent-related.

But the rest...came probably from the Man in the Wall or something else, because they have NOTHING similar to eidolons, vommalysts or sentinents.

Actually Danse is the only Eidolon themed ability. Reave was originally a wall of mist, and Eidolons do not have the ability to drain health. So it’s just a vampire ability.

[ThorienKELL]

52 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

Would a Steel Path Frost specter a good metric to judge a tank frame? Is that considered normal content for an immortal tank? It's only one of the junctions to get off earth. Shouldn't be a problem, but it is. 

Ok that was funny vid. Well probably, haven't seen that specter yet. I just came back from few months pause and just started steel path - I'm using it to level my frames, yesterday I was on earth with xaku leveling 1-30, all you need it some nasty melee weapon otherwise it's barely a challenge. 

But that specter took away 6k health in one hit, dayum, those are some tenno levels of damage O.O

[Berzerkules]

30 minutes ago, ThorienKELL said:

Ok that was funny vid. Well probably, haven't seen that specter yet. I just came back from few months pause and just started steel path - I'm using it to level my frames, yesterday I was on earth with xaku leveling 1-30, all you need it some nasty melee weapon otherwise it's barely a challenge. 

But that specter took away 6k health in one hit, dayum, those are some tenno levels of damage O.O

I'm sorry sir/ma'am, I totally baited you into an Inaros debate so I could link that video. I also really dislike Inaros, his kit needs some work and should have gotten it before his prime release. 

It does prove a point though, at some point any frame/build that relies on traditional methods of tanking in WF will get one shot before you can build up damage reduction from adaptation or get your arcanes to proc. That breaking point comes even sooner in Steel Path. It's actually an unfortunate situation, the best way to tank now is to abuse shield gating with a decaying dragon key, brief respite and augur set mods. It allows more frames to "tank" if they use a different set of mandatory mods, but leaves some frames in a bad place if they don't fit the new meta.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

This is hilarious, it's basically impossible to die with revenant if you know what you're doing but hey, let's make his base stats stronger...

LOL

[AriaSTG]

This 2 legged vampiric covered in gas shield tree man spewing lazer while spining is not tanky enough? So buff the base stats as they are bad and not because of the kit?

what quik maf iz dis?

[(PSN)NoTrollGaming]

Getting revenant as the boosted Warframe in arbitrations is the best feeling in the world