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Heart of Deimos: Update 29.1.0


[DE]Megan
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6 hours ago, Isokaze_BestKaze said:

Yet Ash could utterly trivialize Disruption with MFD. Mark a mook, fatal teleport, everything die including the disruption target.

And Saryn/Mesa were lightyears behind that build. Lightyears. It was completely and utterly broken. Even Khora requires you to build your whipclaws and combo for her 1.

 

Seriously, the simple fact that Tesla Bank was the same ability, but weaker and requiring an augment should have rang alarm bells in your heads. MFD was too strong.

No, Mesa setup is way easier: 

  • Set mouse DPI to 10K or something ridiculous
  • Press 4 
  • Randomly moves mouse

No enemy can even come close the defense objective. In addition, once this is setup, you can AFK for the entire defense duration (as long as u move a bit with mesa waltz such that you don't get kicked for inactivity). 

With Ash, you actually HAVE TO PLAY THE GAME. 

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1 minute ago, XaoGarrent said:

You've said nothing to contradict what I've said.

I feel like you're new to Warframe. I don't know if you are, but there's things you clearly don't know that any long time vet does. Namely how DE nerfs anything with high statistical usage, regardless of how much it gets talked about. The hype just determines the speed, it happens either way.

[insert Thanos quote here]

it's painful how accurate that is.

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3 minutes ago, KVenom said:

3. Word gets to DE, among with the vids. And, basing on how many views those vids get, the DE makes a decision on prioritising the forementioned issue.

ok but why nerf into oblivion tho? i mean, the overhype should be good for them, i just came back to the game cause i wanted to try it out (sadly the nerf came before a could cause i was far behind in the game when i stopped playing)...
Warframe is a game that you play to kill loots of things to pass time and have fun with it no? so when something that promotes it is created, and make the game popular, why would DE change it so you can not have fun with it anymore? 

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14 hours ago, XaoGarrent said:

You've said nothing to contradict what I've said.

I feel like you're new to Warframe. I don't know if you are, but there's things you clearly don't know that any long time vet does. Namely how DE nerfs anything with high statistical usage, regardless of how much it gets talked about. The hype just determines the speed, it happens either way.

1. I am here since 2015.
2. DE nerfs things EXACTLY how I said. It's all based on popularity. No one makes much vids about being able to AFK the ESO with Saryn's 1. Or about Khora's whip doing a damage that can only be described as "a line of numbers from one side of screen, to another". So yah, don't feed me that "DE nerfs anything with high strategical usage", alright?!

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1 минуту назад, Gargarvore сказал:

ok but why nerf into oblivion tho? i mean, the overhype should be good for them, i just came back to the game cause i wanted to try it out (sadly the nerf came before a could cause i was far behind in the game when i stopped playing)...
Warframe is a game that you play to kill loots of things to pass time and have fun with it no? so when something that promotes it is created, and make the game popular, why would DE change it so you can not have fun with it anymore? 

Exactly. DE was scared by the whole hype, so they put this poor thing into number 1 priority. Thus we got this nerfed VERY HARD. As I said, no one hypes about Khora Claw or Saryn's 1, thus those are not nerfed.

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Grandmother's Oddities still really need a price reduction. Not including the items that are cycled out daily, you currently need 380 Grandmother Tokens to get all of her wares. Also, after using Xaku, I think the changes are wonderful but here is what I would suggest for further changes:

1. Make Xata's Whisper apply to Xaku's other powers, not just weapons.

2. Increase the base firing range of the turrets for Grasp of Lohk from 8 meters to 10 or 11 meters.

3. Increase Gaze base radius from 8 meters to 10 or 11 meters.

4. Make Deny an AOE explosion rather than a straight line with roughly the same radius as Gaze.

5. Give Xaku 15-25 more points of base energy or reduce casting cost of The Lost as a whole (not necessary but would be a nice QOL change).

6. Make Accuse recastable up until maximum number of targets are affected.

Xaku is definitely in a better place now and is quite fun. I'm looking forward to further changes in the future.

Edited by DawnoftheWhiteFury
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6 hours ago, Isokaze_BestKaze said:

Yet Ash could utterly trivialize Disruption with MFD. Mark a mook, fatal teleport, everything die including the disruption target.

Naramon Dash also trivialized Disruption. Revenant still trivializes disruption, more easily and scaling to infinity. Octavia, Wisp, Khora, Wukong, Banshee, Ivara, Gauss, even my Excalibur -- hell even a well built BANSHEE -- completely trivialize Disruption. Even before they nerfed health and armor scaling, yet after they changed melee to be less powerful at the higher end did these frames S#&$ on Disruption. There is only ONE target that matters, Ash wasn't doing better than any of those frames nor does he have the plethora of utility these frames contain for the higher levels when finishers stop doing the job after two or three hits. Ash, at most, had a second build other than the still better Seeking Shuriken Blood Rush melee spam. 

And that still doesn't address that in that single case scenario you have no reason at all to use Marked For Death being that if a Mesa or Saryn existed in that lobby, everything that wasn't the Demolyst is already dead, so you waste 50 energy doing nothing that a single set mod doesn't do faster. 

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13 hours ago, KVenom said:

1. I am here since 2015.
2. DE nerfs things EXACTLY how I said. It's all based on popularity. No one makes much vids about being able to AFK the ESO with Saryn's 1. Or about Khora's whip doing a damage that can only be described as "a line of numbers from one side of screen, to another". So yah, don't feed me that "DE nerfs anything with high strategical usage" BS, alright?!

https://lmgtfy.app/?q=ESO+saryn+warframe

Spoiler

 

What are you even talking about? These videos happen literally all the time. 

Here, I'll even give you a bonus. 

https://lmgtfy.app/?q=eso+volt+warframe

 

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Copying this post from the Xaku thread in case it should be here instead. 

 

Intro - So the changes came out now and though I was hopeful this would be like Protea's buffs (far better in practice than they seem on paper) they are actually worse than I was expecting. That's not to say that this round of buffs was bad in totality, overall it's a huge improvement, but despite having my expectations low it was actually still worse than I thought. Let's go through this. 

Passive - It's good, people don't like evasion but I'm fine with it, it suits them.
Expectations: It protecc against AOE now at least somewhat?
Result: It do

Xata's Whisper - So like I said before when the buffs were announced, this still sucks. The damage is better now, that much is true, but because of the proc effect it makes it impossible to get head shots, still consistently nerfing your own damage and making you weaker than you were before. People now are at least mentioning the proc effect more which is good so hopefully next round they'll remove that effect entirely. As it stands now, this ability still makes you do less damage. Expectations: Was hopeful that damage increase could make them outdo the damage decrease you get from head shots.
Results: I was wrong, still a net loss.

Grasp of Lohk - This I am a little conflicted on to be honest. The more I think about it the more I realize how dangerous this ability could be, if you make it strong enough to kill high level enemies without armor strip then Xaku would be OP. I think the best thing you could do is buff the damage, but make the guns target only one enemy at a time, or at least have the option to switch them from random targets to the same target, that way you could have them firing away at anything or focus them on stronger enemies. Hopes for this would be that when focused on one enemy, they could shred it, when unfocused they are more for clearing trash mobs around you. This would make the ability actually useful.
Expectations: More user friendly.
Results: The ability didn't change other than being faster to use, that's good and all and I appreciate that, but the ability is still next to useless.

The Lost - 
                Gaze - Still good but I'd prefer it to not require a target and instead just place an AOE at a position. It has another "problem" but I'll cover that at the end of                  this.
                Expectations: No changes promised, no real expectations other than, again, something I will mention at the end.
                Results: N/A

                Accuse - Had no changes, no real comment. Not amazing but also not terrible no real opinion on this one other than what I always say; Scaling. Enemies                        firing at each other do basically nothing, make them scale more so they can actually kill enemies.
                Expectations: Same as above, no changes, no expectations.
                Results: See above.

                Deny - Ooph, this one hurt. So I was thinking "Ok with the damage multiplier even though the blast radius will still be tiny, it will at least one shot things."                      Sadly not even close. With 328% strength and 6 guns making it a 7x multiplier after 8 shots I'd done maybe a 5th or a 4th of a high level enemies health.                        That's just pathetic, with that much strength and a 7x multiplier I should be one shotting these corrupted, especially when it has such a narrow AOE. This is                    just bad, really bad.
               Expectations: As stated above I thought for sure this was going to do monster damage but in a very small line.
               Results: Instead it still does horrible damage in a very small line. I think Ember's fireball does more damage than this. This is bad.

The Vast Untime - Ok now this was a big improvement! This I like, removing the drain and making it pause your abilities? This is really really nice and this alone makes Xaku far more viable, with the specific build and play style that everyone already must use for Xaku this would bump them from a D tier to a C tier all on it's own. 
Expectations: Not a massive energy drain and a way cool new synergy we've yet to really see
Results: I was right :D

That Thing I said I'd Mention At The End - So I'm not the first nor will I be the last to say this, but DE has even publicly acknowledged that their armor strip is really strong and combined with some of their other abilities make them a monster. (Keep in mind, only when combined with their strip do these abilities become powerful, which they should not need in order to swing the big numbers, baby.) That being said you MUST build them for 200% strength, no less. This severely limits builds for them and makes it so there's really only one way to play Xaku. That's bad, really bad. They need the Garuda treatment. She used to need 200% for guaranteed bleed chance, now she needs far less. Give them that too. As it stands now you have to put on 3 strength mods (two if one is a fully leveled Blind Rage, but then you nuke your efficiency into the ground), probably some kind of survival mod like Vitality or Steel Fiber or Adaptation, if not more than one which most people use. You are required to build Xaku a specific way or they're not doing well. Fix this please.

Final Thoughts - Xaku is still cool, still interesting, and much better off now, that doesn't make them good. They need plenty more love.

TLDR - Remove void damage proc effect, buff damage on Grasp, Buff the hell out of Deny because it seems to be the weakest damage dealing ability in the game atm, and lower the threshold for 100% armor strip. These are the essentials. I gave other ideas but these ones are the most important. 

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Только что, XaoGarrent сказал:

I was going to let you slide on mentioning Saryn, but she has been nerfed repeatedly over the time of her existence, has been reworked completely twice, and in particular has gotten more individual nerfs, than any other frame since her last rework, and most of those nerfs were either to her Spores, or otherwise involved them. It's not just that, but about the only thing stopping even more nerfs is the forum outcry every time they touch her (and rightly so, she's actually pretty average in SP which is the new measuring stick for what's top tier).

Your fairy tale: "Saryn got nerfed too much already, boo-hoo!", "insert %other_casual_saryn_player_cry% here"
Reality: go to any ESO. And look at who is scoring Top Damage and kills. It 99% will be Saryn.
 

How? Because you don't even need Strength on Saryn. Unlike Equinox though, she doesn't need to recast her damaging skill. Thus no bans from Simmaris. And did I mention that the old, almost ancient Spore+Ignis combo still applies?

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1 minute ago, ShichiseitenYasha said:

https://lmgtfy.app/?q=ESO+saryn+warframe

  Reveal hidden contents

 

What are you even talking about? These videos happen literally all the time. 

Here, I'll even give you a bonus. 

https://lmgtfy.app/?q=eso+volt+warframe

 

I was going to mention the whole khora whipclaw thing, but I 100% expect the moment I did they'd just blame Brozime for that. They seem to have a thing for shooting the messenger.

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6 минут назад, ShichiseitenYasha сказал:

https://lmgtfy.app/?q=ESO+saryn+warframe

  Скрыть контент

 

What are you even talking about? These videos happen literally all the time. 

Here, I'll even give you a bonus. 

https://lmgtfy.app/?q=eso+volt+warframe

 

I am sorry, may remind you what Volt is still not nerfed?
Or the fact that you ignored the "not much of the vids" part?
They don't make enough vids about it, that reach that level of trend, to be noticed.
On the other hand, the Xoris "OP SETUP" vids went VIRAL. Thus it got nerfed. Thus it proves my point.

Edited by KVenom
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4 minutes ago, KVenom said:

I am sorry, may remind you what Volt is still not nerfed?

You really have no idea how things pan out past level 30 enemies do you? You're one of those people who think pressing 4 on hydron is meta. Let me inform you: It is not. Volt isn't even close to being meta right now.

Edited by XaoGarrent
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2 minutes ago, KVenom said:

I am sorry, may remind you what Volt is still not nerfed?
Or the fact that you ignored the "not much of the vids" part?
They don't make enough vids about it, that reach that level of trend, to be noticed.
On the other hand, the Xoris "OP SETUP" vids went VIRAL. Thus it got nerfed. Thus it proves my point.

That's probably due to the way Volt's ability works in the first place, and how it actually needed a buff in the first place to be usable at all. When it had a damage cap, no one could even make use of it. 

You say "not much vids" which I'm going to assume you mean there weren't many, yet... There are clearly many, from many types of content creators, on reddit, on THESE forums, and people ask about it constantly on region chat and nine people respond with builds that all look pretty much the same. 

And, Xoris went viral? As I see it, Brozime's video about Xoris has 44k views... Yet Grind Hard Squad's video about Saryn nuking ESO has 300k. Tactical Potato's video on Saryn has 114k. These were all relatively the same number of views the day of these rework buffs too, all at around 50k views on the day of release. 

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Gee DE, thanks for adding something fun without any testing or oversight and then nerfing it into the ground to compensate for that fact. You yourself acknowledged that mods applying twice was the issue; gutting the ability shows no awareness. Even the Arquebex, that had the EXACT SAME ISSUE, wasn't gutted just because DE knows they've made mechs fundamentally useless outside of three nodes. I'm hoping the same careless "fixing" doesn't happen to the other Helmith abilities.

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3 hours ago, NeoRetro10K said:

Because some Warframes are damage dealing Warframes. That is their purpose. If every Warframe was just a debuffer, they would all be different flavors of the same thing. At least now we have different flavors of debuffers and different flavors of damage dealers. Some people prefer caster type Warframes over using weapons, and that should be viable.

Have you heard of Helminth system? Every warframe can become a better damage dealer with universally available skills like Rhino's Roar. Every warframe can become a tank with abilities like Nova's Null Star. Every warframe can become a support with abilities like Trinity's Well of Life. Every warframe can become stealthy thanks to abilities like Ivara's Quiver or Equinox's Rest & Rage.

Yet there are no universally available nuking abilities. The only universally available ability that comes close to it (Marked for Death) was nerfed into a useless state. Can you explain why ONLY nuking is so special?

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3 минуты назад, XaoGarrent сказал:

You really have no idea how things pan out past level 30 enemies do you? You're one of those people who think pressing 4 on hydron is meta. Let me inform you: It is not. Volt isn't even close to being meta right now.

I know about that. The guy mentioned Volt I told him about Volt. Also, Eso starts from level 60, not 30. You must be one of those people who forgot there are stronger places, than Hydron. Also, Volt is OP not for his mass damage, but through his shields. But of course, you are getting Narrow-minded, because you gotta defend Brozime.

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10 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Marked for Death Changes:

Before we jump into the nitty gritty, let’s revisit what the ‘Marked for Death’ Helminth Infusion is: Stun an enemy; a portion of the next damage you deal to it will be dealt to all enemies around it.

It’s important to note that the description mentions ‘a portion of the next damage’, which was always our intent, meaning we have some bugs to fix and explanations to make on the next steps here.

20c8b3300a4f294d658cf4c336a50286.png

With Marked for Death now in the wild and being experimented with, it was apparent to not be working as intended by overwhelmingly nuking enemies left, right, and center when combined with certain loadouts and due to certain bugs. We recognize the players who brought this forward with understanding that it needs to be addressed. Let’s get into the meat of it:  

  • Fixed Mods applying twice to the Marked for Death Damage portion dealt in the AOE.

  • Fixed base Damage using the Health/Shield Damage dealt and not capped at the Health+Shield the target had prior (e.g. enemy with 5 Health gets hit by 100 damage, and 100 damage is shared in AOE. It should just be the 5).

    • Radial damage was never meant to exceed the target’s Health and this was our bad. The desired strategy we wanted was players prioritizing tank units like Heavy Gunners to do AOE clears since heavy units have more Health than normal, thus the radial AOE would likely be lethal, not just normal units. This issue combined with numerous bugs of Mods stacking meant this was way over powered. A key part of reviewing these changes will be ensuring that players understand the best case scenario we envision for the power is targeting high-Health enemies to do radial damage to weaker enemies. 

  • Removed Critical Chance from Marked for Death radial AOE. 

  • Capped Damage multiplier stat to 75% and normalized Damage type mults.

    • Here’s an example of normalized Damage type: if the Damage you deal is 0.5 Impact, 0.4 Slash, 0.3 Heat that sums to 1.2x but after normalizing they become 0.42 Impact, 0.33 Slash, 0.25 Heat.

  • Fixed Marked for Death with Arcane Trickery equipped triggering invisibility almost every time, because each enemy hit by the AoE has its own 15% chance to activate Arcane Trickery.

Capping the damage at the target units health. and then only distributing 75% of that damage renders the ability flatly useless. It's now more button presses that it will ever be worth. The design vision of targeting the heavy in a group, and killing it down the rest flatly doesn't work outside of infested. Grineer and Corpus heavy units simply do not spawn with the required ratio to normal troops to make it work out, and the base range means they'll rarely be in range of enough units to render the ability functional.

From a player perspective, this ability seemed designed to allow melee finishers, or weapons such as sniper rifles to compete on a better level with area nuking skills, and explosive weapons. If the ability doesn't do this, it's simply useless, wasted design space. The desired strategy for it's use as outlined here simply never actually occurs in the game often enough to be worth the time and effort to replace an ability with this skill.

You need to pick one or the other between capping it at the target's health, or capping it at 75% radial damage. It can't be both, if you want the ability to ever actually see real use.

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2 minutes ago, ShichiseitenYasha said:

That's probably due to the way Volt's ability works in the first place, and how it actually needed a buff in the first place to be usable at all. When it had a damage cap, no one could even make use of it. 

Let me add to that the fact it's electric damage and Volt has no quick and dirty way to strip armor within its range.

Meaning that versus the new yardstick, the Steel Path, Volt's 4 is absolute garbage.

You do more damage playing Vauban and using Bastille to strip and group up enemies, and then tossing Teslas on top of them. WAY more damage if you're a tesla bank sort of person... ...I'm not, but I'm also not going to pretend like that setup doesn't do some serious damage.

(Hilariously topical too: It was sorta kinda Marked for Death before Marked for Death existed, a bunch of Youtubers did videos on it too and it never got nerfed)

Saryn fares better in the Steel Path, but she stops being a nuker and starts having more of a debuff role. If anything, Vauban's a better nuker! Some crazy shifts happen and it really becomes obvious who scales the hardest. Turns out, Saryn ain't it.

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8 minutes ago, KVenom said:

I know about that. The guy mentioned Volt I told him about Volt. Also, Eso starts from level 60, not 30. You must be one of those people who forgot there are stronger places, than Hydron. Also, Volt is OP not for his mass damage, but through his shields. But of course, you are getting Narrow-minded, because you gotta defend Brozime.

I don't acknowledge ESO as a valid example of anything. Nobody should. It's a mode that should be reworked or retired. It's horribly designed and has been flawed from the beginning, and many of the changes, the "fixes," they made to it briefly after its launch made it even worse, and less credible as an example of anything.

I'm fully aware of it. More than you are, at least as you've so far demonstrated.

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