Marked for Death is worthless now

[NineteenLettersLong]

DE once again mask disgustingly heavy handed nerfs as "bug fixes" . Fixing the mod damage applying twice and arcane trickery triggering more than intended makes sense. But the damage now capping at total enemy health AND only being 75% of the source damage means this ability cannot clear groups of normal enemies. You HAVE to mark a tanky enemy to clear fodder. Remember that this ability with range built barely breaks 20m, and needs line of sight, and wants specific loadouts to work effectively. It is now far to niche for its asking requirements.

RIP 140,000 Kuva invested into my finisher Balla dagger. 

[vegetosayajin]

Well tbf...considering the last year of "bug fixes" and straight up giant nerfs: It was 100% meant to be, no doubt about it.
I'm just glad I got to play with it a while. ^^

[(PSN)NeunDrachen]

Anyone with common sense knew something so powerful would be nerfed asap. Kinda your fault for over investing without thinking de wasnt going to notice the amount of ppl using it.

 

I mean really saying you invested 140k kuva into a specific roll and getting pissed off at de when it was your choice to waste your time on such a venture is with lack of better words, on you.

[NineteenLettersLong]

il y a 3 minutes, (PS4)NeunDrachen a dit :

Anyone with common sense knew something so powerful would be nerfed asap. Kinda your fault for over investing without thinking de wasnt going to notice the amount of ppl using it.

 

I mean really saying you invested 140k kuva into a specific roll and getting pissed off at de when it was your choice to waste your time on such a venture is with lack of better words, on you.

You... You thought this was more powerful than standard meta kits? Make a few builds first lmao.

[Gremlin]

Still seems like it'll be a nice fat mini nuke. 

[NineteenLettersLong]

il y a 1 minute, Ker-Blammo a dit :

Still seems like it'll be a nice fat mini nuke. 

Using it will now leave all enemies within range and line of sight with 25% health, in which case with the specific case of ash you'll have to use Marked for Death, Fatal Teleport, and the Finisher Animation again, or Equinox Sleep, Marked for Death, Finisher animation. or just individually kill the lower health enemies.

Either way this takes twice as much time or more, making it a lackluster option compared to damage dealers like Larval Protea, Larval Rubble Heap Atlas, Roar DPS Volt, Warcry Baruuk, ect, ect, ect.

Marked For Death was already pretty slow for damage, it was just safer because of Trickster invisibility and added utility and fun to otherwise janky lower viability frames like Ash.

It is now, however . Just hot garbage.

[Drachnyn]

At this point it seems like DE doesnt actually want to release good things anymore because if it does happen they will completely kneecap it. MfD was a cool ability but wasnt actually that practical. Hitting for damage cap is nice and all but with only 10m base range and LoS restriction I better fcking hope it hits for damage cap.

On top of that you had to make your whole build around it because it needed high range but also strength and you were more or less forced into finishers because otherwise the AoE hits were affected by armor twice.

Now the ability is completely useless because it cant kill reliably anymore with being locked to at most 75% of the target's max HP. Less if someone else were to hit and damage the target before you could do it. Overkill damage is not damage dealt? What a joke...

[Gremlin]

6 minutes ago, NineteenLettersLong said:

Using it will now leave all enemies within range and line of sight with 25% health, in which case with the specific case of ash you'll have to use Marked for Death, Fatal Teleport, and the Finisher Animation again, or Equinox Sleep, Marked for Death, Finisher animation. or just individually kill the lower health enemies.

Either way this takes twice as much time or more, making it a lackluster option compared to damage dealers like Larval Protea, Larval Rubble Heap Atlas, Roar DPS Volt, Warcry Baruuk, ect, ect, ect.

Marked For Death was already pretty slow for damage, it was just safer because of Trickster invisibility and added utility and fun to otherwise janky lower viability frames like Ash.

It is now, however . Just hot garbage.

Doesn't it work that even if you manage to do like 2 mil damage, that everything within the radius will take 1.5 mil? Just using that number as an example. 

 

I just mean that you can still do a butt ton of damage to nuke, you just need a bit more damage. Like leaving enemies at 25% health would be if you literally did 100% damage to a  target and didn't over damage them.

 

Edit; you right.

[NineteenLettersLong]

à l’instant, Ker-Blammo a dit :

Doesn't it work that even if you manage to do like 2 mil damage, that everything within the radius will take 1.5 mil? Just using that number as an example. 

No, it is now capped to the enemies total health, then does 75% of that. so if an enemy has 200 HP, the surrounding enemies can't take more than 150.

[Gremlin]

1 minute ago, NineteenLettersLong said:

No, it is now capped to the enemies total health, then does 75% of that. so if an enemy has 200 HP, the surrounding enemies can't take more than 150.

Oh I see, read it wrong in the patch notes. Totally missed the huge paragraph over the 75% thing. Still seems like it could be alright, but like you said you'll have to target the strongest enemy in the room. 

[Raikh]

vor 1 Minute schrieb NineteenLettersLong:

No, it is now capped to the enemies total health, then does 75% of that. so if an enemy has 200 HP, the surrounding enemies can't take more than 150.

Yeah and that part right here is what completely breaks the ability.

Especially in a world where some enemies like to produce most of their eHP through armor, so the limit of damage you can spread is absolutely pitiful.

Not to mention that you can't clear a room regardless of level.

Its just a really stupid change on top fo the interaction "fixes".

You can't tell me this change was play tested, even if only internally. There a tons of ways to clap your hands and make a room disappear, but this particular new toy that did it slightly differently and with more restrictions is somehow a really huge problem. This nerf is so misguided beyond belief.

[Syln]

The fact that it was about to be nerfed was no suprise but damn did they go out of their way to killed it, buried it, pissed on the grave and built a car park over it.

[Rosaria]

Effectively can't even kill level 130s in simulacrum with it. Much less anything else of substance. % of hp damage was by far a mistake that has now made the ability all but unusable. But hey, in the off chance a level 100 somehow glitches into a level 30 mission, it might be useful, for like, 5 seconds.

[hawttdawgg]

They even said that the nerfs are bringing marked for death in line with their original intention, which is fine and all, but you can absolutely tell that they playtested none of this. Pre-nerf marked for death was obviously OP, especially on stuff like Ash. If they had actually sat down and used the ability for longer than 5 minutes, it was obvious that it was completely different than their intention. Post-nerf mark is now probably under-powered or at least niche, especially considering armor and shield gating. It honestly seems like they haven't played their own game, which is a bit too common of a trend. Avichaea are another perfect example, if you had sat down and actually tried to capture a few, you would swiftly realize it bugs out more often than it works. Bile for helminth is painful, and every railjack resource cost is insane, which they would probably realize if they just played their own game. Its frustrating to think that they just push updates through with a literal surface level understanding of the mechanics.

[Talinthis]

i am more upset about missing out on 87 grandma tokens because i didnt pick the fish trophy

[kgabor]

Oh cool, at least i don't have to farm for it.

This ability was the main reason i was looking forward to the update and the Helminth system as they announced it, but now i can skip one layer of grind again as it's pointless now.

[Rosaria]

11 minutes ago, hawttdawgg said:

They even said that the nerfs are bringing marked for death in line with their original intention, which is fine and all, but you can absolutely tell that they playtested none of this. Pre-nerf marked for death was obviously OP, especially on stuff like Ash. If they had actually sat down and used the ability for longer than 5 minutes, it was obvious that it was completely different than their intention. Post-nerf mark is now probably under-powered or at least niche, especially considering armor and shield gating. It honestly seems like they haven't played their own game, which is a bit too common of a trend. Avichaea are another perfect example, if you had sat down and actually tried to capture a few, you would swiftly realize it bugs out more often than it works. Bile for helminth is painful, and every railjack resource cost is insane, which they would probably realize if they just played their own game. Its frustrating to think that they just push updates through with a literal surface level understanding of the mechanics.

Sadly, though a lot of them seem to play the game casually, they aren't.. that good, if a lot of their changes are anything to go on. Either that, or they only play test it AFTER it releases. Which brings us back to the original point. Not to mention they probably, at absolute most, test for base functionality (though it really doesn't seem like even that, sometimes), and likely use console inputs to test things like helminth's costs, without realizing 'oh hey maybe 15k copernics is a little much..'

But they're extremely bad about learning from past mistakes in this way, and honestly it seems to get worse by the update. I won't even open up the can of worms that is xaku, necramechs and other stuff, but you get the idea.

[Quick edit] Mind you, I've enjoyed a lot of my time with this update despite all the issues, but I'm very aware they exist. And overpower the few nice things, despite.

[Blade_Wolf_16]

Seeing how many abilities (including some ults like Reckoning, Crush, Stomp, Effigy, etc.) can't deal anything near 75% of enemy hp at high level, especialy not on multiple targets at a time, I still think this ability can be quite effective if used properly. 

Sure, some abilities CAN do more, but most damage-dealing ones can't, so I don't think we should yell at DE for nerfing yet another nuke.

[Raikh]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb Rinleric:

Sadly, though a lot of them seem to play the game casually, they aren't.. that good, if a lot of their changes are anything to go on. Either that, or they only play test it AFTER it releases. Which brings us back to the original point. Not to mention they probably, at absolute most, test for base functionality (though it really doesn't seem like even that, sometimes), and likely use console inputs to test things like helminth's costs, without realizing 'oh hey maybe 15k copernics is a little much..'

But they're extremely bad about learning from past mistakes in this way, and honestly it seems to get worse by the update. I won't even open up the can of worms that is xaku, necramechs and other stuff, but you get the idea.

To add to that. I still get the impression that some devs over at DE treat the game like a tactical shooter, where each indvidual enemy has value and all abilities manipulating even single enemies are really powerful.

Meanwhile in reality the game is closer to Dynasty Warriors or Diablo as its just mass slaughter once you have a build going for your frame past the initial Starchart slog.

Because in some cases we get planet nuking abilities/weapons that can kill anything in unlimited quantities with minimal effort, while other stuff is designed as if it had to work for a way more restrained tactical shooter with some glitter.

[NineteenLettersLong]

il y a 9 minutes, Blade_Wolf_16 a dit :

Seeing how many abilities (including some ults like Reckoning, Crush, Stomp, Effigy, etc.) can't deal anything near 75% of enemy hp at high level, especialy not on multiple targets at a time, I still think this ability can be quite effective if used properly. 

Sure, some abilities CAN do more, but most damage-dealing ones can't, so I don't think we should yell at DE for nerfing yet another nuke.

"These Crowd Control and Support ultimates can't do 75% damage"
Wow who would have guessed. Also Effigy competing for one of the worst ultimates in the games is hardly anything to go off of.

Also given it had 10m base and was restricted by Line of Sight and required you to use multiple skills or finisher animations making it take much longer than a normal high damage skills, it was hardly a nuke. So no I absolutely think DE deserves criticism for knee jerk nerfing yet another skill.

[Tesseract7777]

1 hour ago, NineteenLettersLong said:

DE once again mask disgustingly heavy handed nerfs as "bug fixes" . Fixing the mod damage applying twice and arcane trickery triggering more than intended makes sense. But the damage now capping at total enemy health AND only being 75% of the source damage means this ability cannot clear groups of normal enemies. You HAVE to mark a tanky enemy to clear fodder. Remember that this ability with range built barely breaks 20m, and needs line of sight, and wants specific loadouts to work effectively. It is now far to niche for its asking requirements.

RIP 140,000 Kuva invested into my finisher Balla dagger. 

Why would you invest that much on anything this early? 

I haven't tested it yet to see if they went too far in the downward balance direction, but even you admit that something was up with the double dipping, that was obvious to anyone with eyes. 

I think if nothing else the base range needs buff. 

[NineteenLettersLong]

à l’instant, Tesseract7777 a dit :

Why would you invest that much on anything this early? 

I haven't tested it yet to see if they went too far in the downward balance direction, but even you admit that something was up with the double dipping, that was obvious to anyone with eyes. 

I think if nothing else the base range needs buff. 

The double dipping is obvious yes, that's not the point of the thread. The point of the thread is the max enemy HP Cap on damage, ran through a 75% source damage cap, being ran through surrounding enemy armor.

This skill does essentially no damage to grineer now at any level.

[Tesseract7777]

7 minutes ago, NineteenLettersLong said:

The double dipping is obvious yes, that's not the point of the thread. The point of the thread is the max enemy HP Cap on damage, ran through a 75% source damage cap, being ran through surrounding enemy armor.

This skill does essentially no damage to grineer now at any level.

I definitely think it was too heavy handed just from reading it, but I don't want to theorycraft too much until I'm back in game and try different things out. 

Either way, I think the nerf should have come with a range buff at the very least. The only reason the range wasn't an issue before was the damage was so high people could use overextended. The range is atrocious bad and the useage will be near zero soon enough. 

[Zi-Sui]

1 hour ago, NineteenLettersLong said:

Using it will now leave all enemies within range and line of sight with 25% health, in which case with the specific case of ash you'll have to use Marked for Death, Fatal Teleport, and the Finisher Animation again, or Equinox Sleep, Marked for Death, Finisher animation. or just individually kill the lower health enemies.

It is now, however . Just hot garbage.

Aren't those all old abilities you list fixed damage numbers, not dependent on enemy total health, unlike Marked for Death?

[Blade_Wolf_16]

il y a 23 minutes, NineteenLettersLong a dit :

"These Crowd Control and Support ultimates can't do 75% damage"
Wow who would have guessed. Also Effigy competing for one of the worst ultimates in the games is hardly anything to go off of.

True, those abilities have decent CC properties, but I was not exclusively talking about those. I was also considering others like Radial Javelin, Tempest Barrage, Miasma, Rumblers, Prism, etc. 

 

Edit: Also, the fact you can replace a bad ability with it (such as Shock or Spectrorage) is already a big plus in itself.