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Ensnare Is Ridiculously Good.


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So Ensnare... Khora's second ability that targets one enemy, and puts it in a cocoon. 

Nothing too crazy, in fact, hardly noticed it before Helminth System. 

However, once you start to consider it, things get a little insane.

First of all, Range. This ability can target up to 1 unit initially at a maximum of 84.something meters at 280% range. Neato. Not the biggest, still pretty solid. Next, targets other units within 28 meters of that first target. This is pretty much the same as a Vauban's Vortex, so there's precedent. Neato. However, also, Like Vaubans Vortex. Ensnare does not require Line of Sight. That seems... Fine...

But when you consider Nidus' Larvae, which has the same range and cast cost. You start seeing weird differences... Larvae requires Line of Sight. Ok, it is a tentacle reaching out after all... But did you know if there's an Ancient Healer in the area you can go screw yourself? Because only that healer will get pulled? Hmmmm. Surely Ensnare Acts the same? Nope. Everything. No matter how big, or how resistant to CC, gets pulled to the ensnare target... Seems weird, but gets worse. 

Another, little known feature of Ensnare is that it does not Alert enemies. In fact, it puts them to sleep, Much like Ivara's sleep arrow. And Equinox' 2nd ability. However, it has two Marked Differences that make it far. FAR better than Either Ivara(Who is like, THE stealth warframe...) and Equinox, who is about night and sleepy times. 

 - For one, Ivara's Arrow has a Health Wake Up Threshold. Basically. Once you do a certain amount of damage to an enemy, they wake up. This is designed so you can't just permanently CC an enemy and shoot em til they die, you stop them, line up your shot, and have to kill them in one hit to get the stealth kill. If you use a shotgun? Screw you, first pellet to put that enemy past the threshold wakes em up. Need a little oomf with multishot? Also Nope. But Ensnare? Ensnare Has No Such Health Threshold. Equinox is limited in the same way. But Not Ensnare.

- Second, it pulls all those enemies towards a center, providing a ridiculous and unfair advantage to explosive weapons. You can CC a whole for the entirety of the duration, every enemy within thirty meters, and then pull them all together. And open fire with whatever weapon you want, or slash them to death with a melee. And they. Will. Never. Wake. Up. So free instant leveling. Not too terrible... I guess?

What I'm saying is, you can replace almost any ability on any warframe with Ensnare and it becomes pretty ridiculous... With Nidus Especially, just replace Larvae with this because it is flat out better in every way. Not like you're going to do anything with the 3 friggin seconds you wait for Ensnare's propagation anyway. And if you had Larvae, you could just not happen to attract any enemies and end up wasting your energy for almost nothing if there's an ancient healer in the room. There isn't a single Warframe that doesn't benefit massively from Ensnare, and currently it is just basically the best ability on the helminth list. Yes. Even counting Roar and Eclipse and whatever other silly meta people are thinking is a good idea...

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11 minutes ago, NanoVega said:

There isn't a single Warframe that doesn't benefit massively from Ensnare, and currently it is just basically the best ability on the helminth list. Yes. Even counting Roar and Eclipse and whatever other silly meta people are thinking is a good idea...

I guess we'll just have to disagree.

I don't like ensare, don't like the 3 second wait, and generally don't need this kind of cc on my builds.  I am have great fun with Dispensary, Rest/Rage, Roar, eclipse, Ivara arrows, and breach surge on all kinds of different frames like Inaros, Mag, Volt, Mesa, etc

I have no intention of using ensare on anything and have even taken it off of my Khora builds 🤣.

But to each his own and everyone's playstyles are different.

 

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Ah, but you see the initial target is the only one with the full stun duration. The first branched targets get 75% of modded duration, and the second branch targets get 75% of that reduced duration. When you can't one-shot groups anymore, you want to hit the ones on the edge first, rather than the center.

Larva has the advantage of positioning, just need a surface that you can launch that bugger onto. Ensnare drags all enemies toward an enemy you cast on, which often times you can't control where the target is standing at.

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hace 1 hora, NanoVega dijo:

So Ensnare... Khora's second ability that targets one enemy, and puts it in a cocoon. 

Nothing too crazy, in fact, hardly noticed it before Helminth System. 

However, once you start to consider it, things get a little insane.

First of all, Range. This ability can target up to 1 unit initially at a maximum of 84.something meters at 280% range. Neato. Not the biggest, still pretty solid. Next, targets other units within 28 meters of that first target. This is pretty much the same as a Vauban's Vortex, so there's precedent. Neato. However, also, Like Vaubans Vortex. Ensnare does not require Line of Sight. That seems... Fine...

But when you consider Nidus' Larvae, which has the same range and cast cost. You start seeing weird differences... Larvae requires Line of Sight. Ok, it is a tentacle reaching out after all... But did you know if there's an Ancient Healer in the area you can go screw yourself? Because only that healer will get pulled? Hmmmm. Surely Ensnare Acts the same? Nope. Everything. No matter how big, or how resistant to CC, gets pulled to the ensnare target... Seems weird, but gets worse. 

Another, little known feature of Ensnare is that it does not Alert enemies. In fact, it puts them to sleep, Much like Ivara's sleep arrow. And Equinox' 2nd ability. However, it has two Marked Differences that make it far. FAR better than Either Ivara(Who is like, THE stealth warframe...) and Equinox, who is about night and sleepy times. 

 - For one, Ivara's Arrow has a Health Wake Up Threshold. Basically. Once you do a certain amount of damage to an enemy, they wake up. This is designed so you can't just permanently CC an enemy and shoot em til they die, you stop them, line up your shot, and have to kill them in one hit to get the stealth kill. If you use a shotgun? Screw you, first pellet to put that enemy past the threshold wakes em up. Need a little oomf with multishot? Also Nope. But Ensnare? Ensnare Has No Such Health Threshold. Equinox is limited in the same way. But Not Ensnare.

- Second, it pulls all those enemies towards a center, providing a ridiculous and unfair advantage to explosive weapons. You can CC a whole for the entirety of the duration, every enemy within thirty meters, and then pull them all together. And open fire with whatever weapon you want, or slash them to death with a melee. And they. Will. Never. Wake. Up. So free instant leveling. Not too terrible... I guess?

What I'm saying is, you can replace almost any ability on any warframe with Ensnare and it becomes pretty ridiculous... With Nidus Especially, just replace Larvae with this because it is flat out better in every way. Not like you're going to do anything with the 3 friggin seconds you wait for Ensnare's propagation anyway. And if you had Larvae, you could just not happen to attract any enemies and end up wasting your energy for almost nothing if there's an ancient healer in the room. There isn't a single Warframe that doesn't benefit massively from Ensnare, and currently it is just basically the best ability on the helminth list. Yes. Even counting Roar and Eclipse and whatever other silly meta people are thinking is a good idea...

Its simple ... larva is faster ... and if you are using ensnare for the CC its just a waste ... just put resonator and CC the entire map without the need to cast it so many times -.- .

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7 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Rule 1 of the Warframe forums:

You don't talk about good things. Because DE has no clue what might be good, but an infinite desire to destroy everything good.

rule 2 of the warframes forums:

 Dont create warnings about this.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2020-09-17 at 2:58 PM, Traumtulpe said:

Rule 1 of the Warframe forums:

You don't talk about good things. Because DE has no clue what might be good, but an infinite desire to destroy everything good.

ngl I kinda want it to be nerfed

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On 2020-09-18 at 12:28 AM, Traumtulpe said:

Rule 1 of the Warframe forums:

You don't talk about good things. Because DE has no clue what might be good, but an infinite desire to destroy everything good.

^^^
this, stop saying anything!

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It really depends on how you play and what you want out of it, and how it fits with the rest of a frame's kit. Some frames I prefer Ensnare, other frames I prefer Larva, other frames neither.

Same with choosing between Dispensary and Spectrosiphon. On Gara, I replace Spectrorage+augment with Dispensary. That is, I believe that on Gara herself, Dispensary is better than her own ability. Does that mean I think Dispensary is better in general? No. On other frames I choose Spectrorage+augment over Dispensary. It's not so simple as one always being better than the other.

Edited by schilds
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Le 17/09/2020 à 19:17, (XB1)CaligulaTwily a dit :

Had it on Necros for a bit. Was too slow, removed it. Still planning on putting Larva on to see what that's like 

I did the same, ensnare ain't bad, but it's too "slow" to be really efficient. Nekros Larva is good, but I've heard team mate talking about Nekros + pull + pull augment, in a team with a DPS it would be even better

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5 hours ago, schilds said:

It really depends on how you play and what you want out of it, and how it fits with the rest of a frame's kit. Some frames I prefer Ensnare, other frames I prefer Larva, other frames neither.

Same with choosing between Dispensary and Spectrosiphon. On Gara, I replace Spectrorage+augment with Dispensary. That is, I believe that on Gara herself, Dispensary is better than her own ability. Does that mean I think Dispensary is better in general? No. On other frames I choose Spectrorage+augment over Dispensary. It's not so simple as one always being better than the other.

Your idea is correct, but your example is terrible. The only situation in which spectrosiphon is better than dispensary is if you magically have too much mod space and want to waste a slot and cripple your build. 

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Larva is just faster and less restrictive to use. Ensnare requires an initial target, Larva is its own target location where it lands. So Larva allows you to pull enemies around corners and onto walls etc. I've even replaced Ensnare on my Khora in order to slot larva since it is so much quicker and easier to use, and I absolutely do not regret it.

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I really don't understand why some people are always trying to make the game less fun for others, why nerf good skill? Why don't buff the bad skills? stop with this nerf fetish, this game is becoming less fun every single patch.

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On 2020-09-17 at 6:56 PM, NanoVega said:

So Ensnare... Khora's second ability that targets one enemy, and puts it in a cocoon. 

Nothing too crazy, in fact, hardly noticed it before Helminth System. 

However, once you start to consider it, things get a little insane.

First of all, Range. This ability can target up to 1 unit initially at a maximum of 84.something meters at 280% range. Neato. Not the biggest, still pretty solid. Next, targets other units within 28 meters of that first target. This is pretty much the same as a Vauban's Vortex, so there's precedent. Neato. However, also, Like Vaubans Vortex. Ensnare does not require Line of Sight. That seems... Fine...

But when you consider Nidus' Larvae, which has the same range and cast cost. You start seeing weird differences... Larvae requires Line of Sight. Ok, it is a tentacle reaching out after all... But did you know if there's an Ancient Healer in the area you can go screw yourself? Because only that healer will get pulled? Hmmmm. Surely Ensnare Acts the same? Nope. Everything. No matter how big, or how resistant to CC, gets pulled to the ensnare target... Seems weird, but gets worse. 

Another, little known feature of Ensnare is that it does not Alert enemies. In fact, it puts them to sleep, Much like Ivara's sleep arrow. And Equinox' 2nd ability. However, it has two Marked Differences that make it far. FAR better than Either Ivara(Who is like, THE stealth warframe...) and Equinox, who is about night and sleepy times. 

 - For one, Ivara's Arrow has a Health Wake Up Threshold. Basically. Once you do a certain amount of damage to an enemy, they wake up. This is designed so you can't just permanently CC an enemy and shoot em til they die, you stop them, line up your shot, and have to kill them in one hit to get the stealth kill. If you use a shotgun? Screw you, first pellet to put that enemy past the threshold wakes em up. Need a little oomf with multishot? Also Nope. But Ensnare? Ensnare Has No Such Health Threshold. Equinox is limited in the same way. But Not Ensnare.

- Second, it pulls all those enemies towards a center, providing a ridiculous and unfair advantage to explosive weapons. You can CC a whole for the entirety of the duration, every enemy within thirty meters, and then pull them all together. And open fire with whatever weapon you want, or slash them to death with a melee. And they. Will. Never. Wake. Up. So free instant leveling. Not too terrible... I guess?

What I'm saying is, you can replace almost any ability on any warframe with Ensnare and it becomes pretty ridiculous... With Nidus Especially, just replace Larvae with this because it is flat out better in every way. Not like you're going to do anything with the 3 friggin seconds you wait for Ensnare's propagation anyway. And if you had Larvae, you could just not happen to attract any enemies and end up wasting your energy for almost nothing if there's an ancient healer in the room. There isn't a single Warframe that doesn't benefit massively from Ensnare, and currently it is just basically the best ability on the helminth list. Yes. Even counting Roar and Eclipse and whatever other silly meta people are thinking is a good idea...

No reason to ruin it for the rest of us...
by stating it is insane ( or any good ) DE will surely nerf it...

What i learned in this game is this:
Good Build? never share it...
Good weapon? rename and reskin it so people don't know what you're using...

Really... if you wonder WHY.. google for VYRA NYX DEVASTATION Build ....
I was literally the only person using that kind of Nyx Build, and then after people noticed it can work and it was in fact very good.. DE nerfed NYx...
Now we have "armor strip" that is "okayish" .. but when you youu at the old psychic bolts it is a joke...the old bolts could actually kill enemies... any type...
Now you need to use armor strip and additionally shooting...

Anyway... keep your secrets or else DE will take them form you...

And if you think i am paranoid or just salty...
I didn't use Marked for Death.. but yeah.. it was good so DE nerfed it.. XD

 

Edited by Vyra
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9 hours ago, (NSW)Reason said:

Your idea is correct, but your example is terrible. The only situation in which spectrosiphon is better than dispensary is if you magically have too much mod space and want to waste a slot and cripple your build. 

I've tested both on multiple frames and with multiple builds. Typically I use a mod like Equilibrium with Dispensary. Spectrosiphon may take an augment, but generates significantly more energy orbs than Dispensary, sufficient to consider going without power efficiency mods, *if* you can get sufficient enemies affected by it. It works well with frames that have pulling abilities, e.g. Vauban.

Edited by schilds
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8 hours ago, Vyra said:

No reason to ruin it for the rest of us...
by stating it is insane ( or any good ) DE will surely nerf it...

What i learned in this game is this:
Good Build? never share it...
Good weapon? rename and reskin it so people don't know what you're using...

Really... if you wonder WHY.. google for VYRA NYX DEVASTATION Build ....
I was literally the only person using that kind of Nyx Build, and then after people noticed it can work and it was in fact very good.. DE nerfed NYx...
Now we have "armor strip" that is "okayish" .. but when you youu at the old psychic bolts it is a joke...the old bolts could actually kill enemies... any type...
Now you need to use armor strip and additionally shooting...

Anyway... keep your secrets or else DE will take them form you...

And if you think i am paranoid or just salty...
I didn't use Marked for Death.. but yeah.. it was good so DE nerfed it.. XD

 

this, unless its a legit bug then report it. otherwise keep it for yourself if you find some fun combination with helminth system.

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16 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Larva is just faster and less restrictive to use. Ensnare requires an initial target, Larva is its own target location where it lands. So Larva allows you to pull enemies around corners and onto walls etc. I've even replaced Ensnare on my Khora in order to slot larva since it is so much quicker and easier to use, and I absolutely do not regret it.

Agreed, while Ensnare is good, Larva is more efficient to use for me as well, almost like Alex Mercer in Prototype.

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As somebody who is reckless, dangerous, and all-round enjoys spreading behaviour in Warframe that is likely un-intended and likely to get nerfed...

Ensnare turns Zephyr into a nuke.

So, in the Simulacrum there was/is a pathing bug with Zephyr's Funnel Clouds augment. This causes the funnels to never wander aimlessly and always target enemies relentlessly. In a crowd of spawned enemies, this turned the eight little funnels into piranhas that would not stop biting until the enemy was dead. You coupled this with even just a single shot into the group from an AoE weapon that could put a useful damage type on them, like old Corrosive, or Radiation, and these little funnels would tear apart level 150 enemies in seconds.

However, in real play, the funnels path on random lines and don't swarm the enemies like that, so it's not possible. Unless...

Now just to be clear about how this is unintended: we have a Status type that has a great interaction with this. Electric damage will cause the Tesla Chain effect. And in crowds, with Funnel Clouds in them? It's the nuke.

For this experiment you will need a weapon that deals base Electric damage, preferably the Amprex or Fulmin. I prefer the Fulmin due to the more AoE nature of the punch-through ball. Mod it for that pure Electric damage and as much Crit and Status as you can get on there, you don't have to be rolling in a Riven, a basic build for the purpose will do. A Bane of Faction mod will be useful because of how this affects Status procs.

Chain up the enemies with Ensnare. Cast Tornado. The sheer concentration of enemies will cause at least three or four of those funnels to appear within the crowd, damaging them without waking them. Fire into the Tornado Funnels, not directly at the enemies (because the clumps of enemies might negate the punch through) and watch the enemies explode.

The Status will proc on every enemy within range of the funnels, the status will deal damage to all the enemies around it and back to the Funnels. This cycle of the funnels deal out the damage they're dealt, the enemies deal out the damage they're dealt (which is modded by your mods to often be higher than the initial damage dealt), causing a chain reaction of damage that will kill almost immediately.

Took this on some quick 20-30 minute tester runs on Steel Path Mot and, as long as you keep Zephyr alive with good placement, Turbulence and the CC from Ensnare, this is one of the most fun builds I've tried for Zephyr in years.

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On 2020-10-03 at 9:56 PM, schilds said:

I've tested both on multiple frames and with multiple builds. Typically I use a mod like Equilibrium with Dispensary. Spectrosiphon may take an augment, but generates significantly more energy orbs than Dispensary, sufficient to consider going without power efficiency mods, *if* you can get sufficient enemies affected by it. It works well with frames that have pulling abilities, e.g. Vauban.

The problem is that having too much energy is not a good thing. Having excess energy is a waste of a mod slot/stat you could use elsewhere, i.e. strength or duration. It's a balancing act where you want to always have just enough energy to do what you need to do and move on. Excess energy with energy orbs sitting around means you could have been stronger in another stat.  Dispensary is perfect since you can adjust how many energy orbs you get with strength or duration.

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Yeah just no.

Ensnare is pretty good, but my nidus won't ever trade his larva for this.

I already need to be super quick if I want a chance to get some stacks before teamates kill everything (hey I do it too, when I see a larva full of ennemies, the trigger is already pressed before my brain can go "maybe let the poor nidus stack up"), so imagine doing the same but having to wait for the thing to slowly grab one ennemy after the other, I'd be at 5 stacks max by the 10th minute.

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