helminth suggestion: let us subsume warframe augment mods.

[spiralmenace]

title. how fantastic would it be to be able to inject a warframe aug so as to not waste capacity or a slot on it?

balance it out with resource costs and consuming the mod upon injection, so you'd need more than one copy to infuse on multiple configs. maybe also limit to one injected augment per config, as well.

[Quimoth]

I am going to keep this a short no.

[Hobie-wan]

That'll never happen.

[TenTonneSkeleton]

On 2020-09-17 at 3:24 PM, Quimoth said:

I am going to keep this a short no.

 

On 2020-09-17 at 3:26 PM, Hobie-wan said:

That'll never happen.

To the above two commentors: "Why not?" Let stimulate some discussion. We have an obvious problem of most augments not being useable. This could be a potential solution. It just takes careful balance and implementation. This may not be the end all solution but I think it helps to think outside the box a bit and discuss.

[(NSW)Gamma83]

It would be too much based on the helminth system and also only a few abilities are on the helminth system , what about every other abilities that have augment but aren't helminth abilities ?  what about the proper owner (warframe) of said abilities ? (since you can't infuse roar on a rhino for example, in your way of doing thing you wouldn't be able to put the augment of the ability to the original owner of the ability.)

instead of that , which will probably never happen , a better and more realistic way to make augment useable (in my opinion) would be to :

make every augment mod as "exilus mod" or even add yet another mod slot in every warframe made specifically for augment mod
Either of those 2 while maybe increasing a little bit each warframe's mod capacity based on the amount of forma used (for a maximum of 5 to 10 extra mod capacity caping at 5 forma)  on the warframe itself , a bit like kuva weapons and paracesis to make it possible.
maybe as a perk for a warframe being a "prime version".

But i bet it has been asked a lot in many thread already. 

[TenTonneSkeleton]

35 minutes ago, (NSW)Gamma83 said:

It would be too much based on the helminth system and also only a few abilities are on the helminth system , what about every other abilities that have augment but aren't helminth abilities ?  what about the proper owner (warframe) of said abilities ? (since you can't infuse roar on a rhino for example, in your way of doing thing you wouldn't be able to put the augment of the ability to the original owner of the ability.)
 

This system would be separate from the subsuming abilities side of things. Helminth is just the enabler for a new system. All augments and all abilities would be valid regardless of whether that ability has been or is possible to subsume. You might think of it as all augments are subsumable and can be applied to any warframe with the corresponding ability. For example Phoenix Renewal would be infusable on oberon's Renewal ability as long as he had that ability active. (Renewal isn't subsumable.) Conversely, Eternal War would infusable on any waframe using Warcry (regardless of whether that ability was on Valkyr, or not).

 

Quote

make every augment mod as "exilus mod" or even add yet another mod slot in every warframe made specifically for augment mod
Either of those 2 while maybe increasing a little bit each warframe's mod capacity based on the amount of forma used on the warframe itself , a bit like kuva weapons and paracesis to make it possible.
maybe as a perk for a warframe being a "prime version".

But i bet it has been asked a lot in many thread already. 

 

This would no doubt be an improvement but it will still leave A LOT of augments out of the running. Most waframes have at least 3 augments to choose from if not one for each ability. As time goes on there will be more and more augments available. Most augments really fit into the category of "cosmetic or niche benefit" which will never be worth a mod slot, even if we get an extra one for augments.

However, I do like the idea of giving Prime frame adtional capacity in some way for augments.  That could be good.

[Quimoth]

We've seen what happened with the more useful/stronger abilities. I don't need the same to happen to the more useful augments.

[matt11mz]

I kinda like the idea. Augments are effectively ability upgrades, and Helminth seems fitting for infusing upgrades to an ability. And in the case of nerfing augments, you'd also have to acknowledge that DE could also buff less used ones, therefore making them more viable, and thus giving us more incentive to look at the whole variety instead of having a must pick augment.

[TenTonneSkeleton]

7 hours ago, Quimoth said:

We've seen what happened with the more useful/stronger abilities. I don't need the same to happen to the more useful augments.

I think it's important to point out that not all augments would be infusable on any waframe. That warframe has to have the corresponding ability to begin with. That was obvious to me, but it's not explicity stated anywhere in this particular thread.

The last thing I want is for everyone to be using the same frame with the same build. Even though this is a PVE game, I think variety makes the game interesting.

But I would propose that this particular balance issue is more a result of which abilities DE picked to be subsumable in the first place. I mean, in what world is Airburst as useful as Roar for example?

I think giving all warframes access to something like Roar wasn't a great decision. Roar is useful on virtually every single frame. It's the definition of power creep.

Now, when it comes to augments, which ones do you think would present problems? Most of them are only "cosmetically useful" or provide very niche benefits which is why they aren't worth a mod slot.

Someone else had the idea of each augment having a specific "drain" on your frame. Similar to how mods work. Frames start with say 7 capacity. Something like Chromatic Blade might take 5 or 6 capacity, while something like Energy Transfer would only take 1 or 2.

[Quimoth]

We also have complete cosmetic mods that aren't frame specific. And some incredibly niche mods that are mostly used for memes.

Adding a separate system with its own slots/drains would add greatly to the complexity of the game, but it might be better than the current system.

And while most augments provide cosmetic/niche benefits the same can be said for most abilities, which again brings me to the point, do we really want them to nerf all the good augments? It will happen, just look at what happened to MfD and Fatal teleport.

[TenTonneSkeleton]

3 hours ago, Quimoth said:

We also have complete cosmetic mods that aren't frame specific. And some incredibly niche mods that are mostly used for memes.

Adding a separate system with its own slots/drains would add greatly to the complexity of the game, but it might be better than the current system.

And while most augments provide cosmetic/niche benefits the same can be said for most abilities, which again brings me to the point, do we really want them to nerf all the good augments? It will happen, just look at what happened to MfD and Fatal teleport.

You bring up a good point. After thinking this over, I would definitely not want good augments nerfed for the new system. Ideally, all the good augments would remain the same and be exempt from infusion, while all the cosmetic/niche benefit ones would be incorporated.

Failing that, good augments would just have a higher drain. The problem here is that there are such a vast difference in power level between augments.