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Helminth Marked for Death PostChanges


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I know that as a community, we are all grateful for DE's changes to Helminth over these past weeks. From the highly praised decisions they made of tweaking certain warframes abilities to not be as powerful when subsumed on other warframes, and now the addition of Marked for death no longer being powerful for players to overwhelmingly pick it so much anymore so people choose other abilities less picked instead.

But DE you haven't done enough, the helminth system is still too broken and people are exploiting it in ways that are not fair for the game against the Ai.

You should absolutely tweak down ALL Warframe abilities that can be subsumed, not just those few you've picked.

Do All of them. This way people will have more choice to choose all the other abilities, since they're all on the same par and the topography of each ability people use would absolutely equalise which is what we as a community, and you, want.

Thanks Again,

Just another Tenno

 

Edited by Croeseus
Mistakes
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For a moment there i was actually in danger of having fun, but then DE swooped down and saved me from it.

Srsly though, what bullet do they think they would be biting by not nerfing this fiddly af ability into complete uselessness?

Edited by wingedoom
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18 minutes ago, Croeseus said:

Marked for death no longer being powerful for players to overwhelmingly pick it so much anymore so people choose other abilities less picked instead.

No amount of nerfing everything else will make a player add a bad ability to a frame (unless they do it for memes, but if they do it for memes, no amount of good alternatives will change that, either).

In their current state, I will never add Mind Control to a frame. I will never add Ice Wave to a frame. I will never add Decoy to a frame. I will never add Terrify to a frame. I will never add Reave to a frame, not because it is a bad ability, but because it is too reliant on the rest of Revenant's kit.

Unless DE buffs these abilities, or in some cases reworks them, then I will never add them to a frame, no matter how much the other helminth abilities are nerfed. Bringing something closer to 0 does not make 0 bigger by comparison.

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The worst move DE has made, and they do dumb stuff like this, regularly. What's the point of the skill if it's not even remotely useful to pick? It was never game breaking to begin with. At higher levels, I personally had plenty of ways to completely wipe out the area WAY before any Ash had time to cast both M4D and Fatal Tele, and this is EASILY the most damage you could output with M4D by a country mile. THAT was it's issue right away: there are WWAAAYYY too many ways to clear the area faster than M4D can be casted and used. 

Cast time, energy efficiency, range and power, balancing all that out was what restricted it's use. Now, it doesn't kill at all. Only 75% of current health as the maximum damage, meaning it cannot kill unless the target is at 1 hp.

Completely and totally useless now. It didn't even need to be changed to begin with, I personally have about 10 different ways to even out damage my own M4D Ash who was doing billions of damage at a time. But you're coming back with 0 dps on the charts, if all the enemies you target, die before you hit it.

Did it need a damage cap? Of course. Did you need to remove the skill from the game (you might as well have, it has zero use)? Nope. Just another display of DE affirming they have no idea how to play their own game or what to do with it.

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Fun has been detected and successfully eliminated.

For real though, the paragraph on the nerf was a load of of dishonest crap: the ability says damage dealt, not damage received by the enemy. The claim that it was meant for use on heavies is directly contradicted by the tooltip video.

Sure fix the double stacking, that's completely fine and valid but calling the rest a fix is just dishonest.

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il y a 1 minute, Lyurvig a dit :

They didn't nerf it that much.
But just made it a not-press-one-button-to-kill.

It wasn't a one button to kill to begin with. Between it's small radius, line of sight requirement, energy cost, and time to go through all the animations, wiping everything in a small area was fine. 

 

There are already a plethora of ways to do this faster than old M4D. Now it's actually just a garbage ability, given how you're posting I can tell you never even used the old M4D though.

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42 minutes ago, NineteenLettersLong said:

It wasn't a one button to kill to begin with. Between it's small radius, line of sight requirement, energy cost, and time to go through all the animations, wiping everything in a small area was fine. 

 

There are already a plethora of ways to do this faster than old M4D. Now it's actually just a garbage ability, given how you're posting I can tell you never even used the old M4D though.

Actual facts. It didnt need a nerf other than a damage output cap so I couldnt hit billions of damage worth of DPS. He clearly never actually used the ability. No one who actually used the ability thought it was overpowered other than the final damage output. Cry babies. DE will end up getting rid of the good players, and the casuals who have no idea how to get the full potential out of the game will be left to continue ruining everything good about Warframe. DE you messed up huge here. You guys really need to pass on the responsibility of balancing the server, to anyone other than you all. 

 

Create a balancing council, select players with a minimum of 6 years experience playing the game, make them prove their knowledge of the game, and have the community vote on them. DE is seriously under-qualified to continue doing any sort of balance changes, and their integrity just went out the window at 100 mph for lying about the true nature of the skill, which was completely contrary to not only the tooltip, but the video demonstration. Just flat out lying.

 

This is the ONE time, the ONE game, in all of my gaming life, that I have to say the community (in general) knows better, because this is the one game, where the games staff actually arent experts or the best players of their own game. And we know this by watching them play.

Edited by AresTheLegendary
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2 минуты назад, NineteenLettersLong сказал:

It wasn't a one button to kill to begin with. Between it's small radius, line of sight requirement, energy cost, and time to go through all the animations, wiping everything in a small area was fine. 

 

There are already a plethora of ways to do this faster than old M4D. Now it's actually just a garbage ability, given how you're posting I can tell you never even used the old M4D though.

It's not as good as before but it still works for my playstyle.
20 meters is enough to kill everything in the room, it's not small. Plus it doesn't need duration, so 50 energy is not a big deal. Just slap 13% dur. with max efficiency on your build and it's fine.

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4 hours ago, Croeseus said:

From the highly praised decisions they made of tweaking certain warframes abilities to not be as powerful when subsumed on other warframes

 

I hope to god this is sarcasm.

At no point did anybody ask for or want DE to nerf any of the subsumed abilities. And DEs decision to do so effectively killed the system for countless people that were initially intrigued by it.

There was no praise for what DE did. Only disappointment and anger.

Edited by (XB1)GearsMatrix301
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1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I hope to god this is sarcasm.

At no point did anybody ask for or want DE to nerf any of the subsumed abilities. And DEs decision to do so effectively killed the system for countless people that were initially intrigued by it.

There was no praise for what DE did. Only disappointment and anger.

Some people who believe in balance have asked for it. To them were added people who cried that Rhino would be useless, since Roar is available to everyone. 

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5 hours ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

No amount of nerfing everything else will make a player add a bad ability to a frame (unless they do it for memes, but if they do it for memes, no amount of good alternatives will change that, either).

In their current state, I will never add Mind Control to a frame. I will never add Ice Wave to a frame. I will never add Decoy to a frame. I will never add Terrify to a frame. I will never add Reave to a frame, not because it is a bad ability, but because it is too reliant on the rest of Revenant's kit.

Unless DE buffs these abilities, or in some cases reworks them, then I will never add them to a frame, no matter how much the other helminth abilities are nerfed. Bringing something closer to 0 does not make 0 bigger by comparison.

Theres already decoy builds out there, after everyone parroting the same stuff you're spewing.

 

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6 hours ago, Croeseus said:

I know that as a community, we are all grateful for DE's changes to Helminth over these past weeks. From the highly praised decisions they made of tweaking certain warframes abilities to not be as powerful when subsumed on other warframes, and now the addition of Marked for death no longer being powerful for players to overwhelmingly pick it so much anymore so people choose other abilities less picked instead.

But DE you haven't done enough, the helminth system is still too broken and people are exploiting it in ways that are not fair for the game against the Ai.

You should absolutely tweak down ALL Warframe abilities that can be subsumed, not just those few you've picked.

Do All of them. This way people will have more choice to choose all the other abilities, since they're all on the same par and the topography of each ability people use would absolutely equalise which is what we as a community, and you, want.

Thanks Again,

Just another Tenno

 

I'd give you a picture of the flame repellent mod, but I don't think that will be enough, you are going to need arcanes. 

I'm bad with pictures so a link will have to do, hopefully this will protect you: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Arcane_Ice

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30 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I'd give you a picture of the flame repellent mod, but I don't think that will be enough, you are going to need arcanes. 

I'm bad with pictures so a link will have to do, hopefully this will protect you: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Arcane_Ice

Are you so softly hinting at how many choices we have with mod and arcane systems? xD

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I can understand them removing the mods double dipping and the glitch with the arcanes procing but they didn't need to put a damage cap on it. All it did was gave finisher builds and dozens of old outdated warframes a new way to play. Its only a room clear if the terrain was clear because of its line of sight thing. Its not even the strongest Helminth nuke. That title goes to Thermal Sunder. Wtf was DE thinking?

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I totally agree with OP.

All abilities of Helminth hype-train baind-aid system need to be nerfed.

Also: nukers like Saryn and Mesa should get severe nerfs. Melee is OP and viral should be nerfed as well.

Please DE, nerf these, these are exploits that help players grind really fast (~ 2000 hours) all those juicy MR fodders you give us.

 

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8 hours ago, Lyurvig said:

They didn't nerf it that much.
But just made it a not-press-one-button-to-kill.

You mean like Saryn's press-one-button-to-kill-literally-everything-forever or Mesa's press-one-button-to-become-a-gattling-turret?

There are so many frames we have that can just nuke everything already. At least granting new interesting synergies allows players to keep on nuking without being as limited by the meta roster. If you can even call MFD a nuke.

The other abilities should be buffed to be more useful.
 

3 hours ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Theres already decoy builds out there, after everyone parroting the same stuff you're spewing.

 

Dunno if I'd call it a build per se, but I have a Saryn set up with Decoy instead of Miasma for doing solo vault runs on Lua. The Collaboration Hall that drops Coaction Drift requires 4 people to stand on pads at once (and specters can do it, but are finicky and horrible). So, you get Saryn, Decoy, Molt and your Starchild to do it quickly and by yourself

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2 часа назад, Xarteros сказал:

You mean like Saryn's press-one-button-to-kill-literally-everything-forever or Mesa's press-one-button-to-become-a-gattling-turret?

There are so many frames we have that can just nuke everything already. At least granting new interesting synergies allows players to keep on nuking without being as limited by the meta roster. If you can even call MFD a nuke.

The other abilities should be buffed to be more useful.

I'm not saying that it was the only easy nuke ability out there. And yes, players have more efficient ways to get rid of every living soul that gets in our way. But "easy" doesn't always mean it's fun. At least for me it's getting boring pretty quickly, however, some of the abilities are quite enjoyable in long runs, like Mirage's Sleight Of Hand with Explosive Legerdemain augment, it adds 3-4 statuses upon explosion and it makes Condition Overload be worth putting on low-status melee.
Not all of the abilities on some warframes are useless, few of them just need an adjustment. 

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