For anyone interested in the results of changes to Marked for death instead of just going gaga [updated with videos].

[Electropuncher]

I mean, it went from being a niche ability that requires me to jump through a few hoops to use to a niche ability with a few hoops for me to jump through with very little use. I wasn't really using this ability in the first place, now I'm using it less. *shrug*

[(PSN)robotwars7]

well, let's be honest, we all saw this coming from space. the very first time I laid eyes on it I was half tempted to get a Stopwatch out and time how long it took before the inevitable nerfhammer beating. adn it looks like while it took a while, DE didn't disappoint... or rather, they did I guess XD. I was right to not cave in and go for a Fatal Teleport build like so many have done.

that said, the community actually seemed to handle this really well, when i heard of the nerf I expected the forums to be ablaze, but.. nothing. I wonder if I missed the flames, or if perhaps, just this once, the community are starting to learn that when something appears that's blatantly OP, whether intentional or not - though DE blurs this line constantly by saying it "wasn't working as intended" ages after something was added - it will eventually get nerfed, and nerfed hard.

sad that MfD is added to the pile of trash abilities now, but it was so obviously gonna happen it might as well have been plastered all over this website.

 

 

[0_The_F00l]

2 hours ago, Ikyr0 said:

You are overthinking it. Take a Fatal Teleport Ash into Steel Path Mot, spend 5 minutes there. The ability is less than garbage. It literally does nothing. It was totally gutted.

I know DE does this kind of nonsense relatively frequently, but it never happened to something that I really enjoyed like MfD. Feelsbadman.

Done , the ability is very unreliable you need to target the right enemy but it is still very poor due to LOS limitations - but it can occasionally do what it is supposed to if you are lucky enough to spot an eximus/heavy surrounded by non eximus/non heavy units.

Very close to impractical though.

[0_The_F00l]

1 hour ago, HolySeraphin said:

It seems from some testing that finisher bonus from augments (at least for Banshee and Excal) still apply to the ability, allowing you to kill every enemy as usual. It is likely that they are multiplying the 75% and turning it into 225%+.

Excalibur:

 

Banshee: 

 

Thats not a M4D effect , its the radial finish and savage banshee effect. Same results can be observed by giving all enemies a few viral procs.

While Ash only affects one target to have bonus finisher damage , savage silence and radial finish affect all enemies.

M4D is doing single finisher damage , it is then getting multiplied cause of the OTHER ability effects.

 

But i wouldn't be surprised if they "Fixed" that too.

[Galuf]

Considering all the drawbacks and limitations it initially had, it was kind of meme tier already.

[killerJoke66]

12 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

But i wouldn't be surprised if they "Fixed" that too.

why they call stuff like this 'fixing' , from the terminology standpoints it makes no sense , just call them what they are -> changes , goes for any balance 'changes' .

[0_The_F00l]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Community: this ability is terrible because it doesn't do a full one-shot, only a partial one-shot. So dumb, now I actually have to finish them off with my gun or melee with a few wacks. 

And are you guys capable of testing anything outside the simulacrum? You know there are actual missions in the game, right? 

Stop being defensive of poorly planned implementation and their subsequent changes,

the point is that there is little reason to use this ability outside of very niche scenarios that needs a prior setup and can still be useless.

Testing has been done in multiple scenarios with identical results , i simply dont record every single run ,

simulacrum is very effective in setting the conditions of tests just to understand the mechanical capability of the abilities.

[Crabopoulos-Michael]

M4D -> Marked for disappointment

[schilds]

You can still pop a pack of enemies on the Steel Path (stealth multipliers, status effects, etc. aside). You just need to pick your target a bit more carefully. That doesn't necessarily mean a heavy. For example, in the void, pick a corrupted crewman instead of a corrupted lancer. The crewman has combined health + shields of 210, lancers have 100 health. All the other crewmen and lancers around (within LoS) will pop. That said, it's still considerably less convenient :-P. The change has also introduced an additional weakness, and that is you're competing with your squad to get to an enemy before it takes damage, because that will also reduce the potential damage of the explosion.

[BahamutKaiser]

This is an unfortunate change, but it wasn't going to allow single target executions to have AoE executions, and anything less seems to be unacceptable. I think the real problem is that nobody has an ability slot for an almost good enough nuke. They'd have been better off increasing the energy cost and framing it as a replacement ult.

They could also make it a blessing rather than a curse, so you don't have to double select a target, but maybe it's better if it just disappears.

[0_The_F00l]

10 minutes ago, schilds said:

You can still pop a pack of enemies on the Steel Path (stealth multipliers, status effects, etc. aside). You just need to pick your target a bit more carefully. That doesn't necessarily mean a heavy. For example, in the void, pick a corrupted crewman instead of a corrupted lancer. The crewman has combined health + shields of 210, lancers have 100 health. All the other crewmen and lancers around (within LoS) will pop. That said, it's still considerably less convenient :-P. The change has also introduced an additional weakness, and that is you're competing with your squad to get to an enemy before it takes damage, because that will also reduce the potential damage of the explosion.

You basically just need to target an enemy that has 35% more health (+Shields) than the surrounding enemies.

[vegetosayajin]

3 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

is still salvageable and effective.

No it's not. 

3 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Without it you are better off using regular melee weapons to save time in most scenarios.

That's the point.
If I could kill much faster, effective and chill with my regular melee...why even bother to use it?

[0_The_F00l]

1 minute ago, vegetosayajin said:

No it's not.

Please do not quote out of context. I was very clear that there is a condition involved.

3 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

if the damage capping based on max health is removed the ability is still salvageable and effective.

 

[vegetosayajin]

Didn't read carefully. I tested it yesterday and I'm still disappointed and laughing at the same time.
Still the point and "view" stands.
It's dead currently and there is no "if", they are not going to make it different. It will still be fun and somewhat effective if they did, so that's a "No, no".
 

[0_The_F00l]

1 minute ago, vegetosayajin said:

Didn't read carefully. I tested it yesterday and I'm still disappointed and laughing at the same time.
Still the point and "view" stands.
It's dead currently and there is no "if", they are not going to make it different. It will still be fun and somewhat effective if they did, so that's a "No, no".
 

Not dead but greatly crippled in my opinion. And i agree it is currently not worth the effort of setting up.

Considering The prime time mentioned there is scope for changes i want to make my opinions be known , same will be added to the feedback once the GD has been up for some time.

[KlaussKlauss]

As I said in other posts, Helminth System was not needed and is just a lazy baind-aid for some underpowered/useless frames. 

It was overhyped, unnecessary, and came with pre-nerfs. M4D wasn't a good room clearing ability, but made Ash viable as a frame, while it had unintended interactions on other frames.

For people discussing the mechanics of new M4D plays: no one cares, even in Steel Path / long endurance we already had better options then the old M4D. 

I am no longer bothering with the Helminth System, it's just another hype-train scam.  

Helminth = Marked for Meh

[Voltage]

The ability should have never launched in the state it was in, and the Helminth system will always be a mess considering the power difference between some Warframes.

Also, this playerbase is very spoiled when it comes to these sorts of things, that's why everyone is upset with the changes. DE did overkill the nerf, but it wasn't out of no where. Spreading finisher damage in an AoE is something that was removed from Exodia Contagion. Why should Marked for Death have it then? Come on, this is like Xoris 2. Everyone uses something inherently unbalanced that is quite obvious to notice it was broken, and then complains when DE nerfs it. Would you rather it have been in the game for years before being nerfed like some items?

[TsukiMiyaRinna]

3 hours ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

Hey pass whatever that S#&$ you're using to hallucinate is, I want some.

yeah saying dumb things like this is totally gonna help with establishing your argument

[killerJoke66]

13 minutes ago, Voltage said:

The ability should have never launched in the state it was in, and the Helminth system will always be a mess considering the power difference between some Warframes.

Also, this playerbase is very spoiled when it comes to these sorts of things, that's why everyone is upset with the changes. DE did overkill the nerf, but it wasn't out of no where. Spreading finisher damage in an AoE is something that was removed from Exodia Contagion. Why should Marked for Death have it then? Come on, this is like Xoris 2. Everyone uses something inherently unbalanced that is quite obvious to notice it was broken, and then complains when DE nerfs it. Would you rather it have been in the game for years before being nerfed like some items?

1- how is M4D even comparable to xoris , one is a weapon that used to be a convenient stat stick and the other one is a literal warframe ability , in the terms of usage (outside of them being totally different things) how do you even compare ? xoris' niche was being able to not needing hit enemies for the weapon that you were stat sticking to and M4D is just a nuke 
2- M4D was already inconvienant with the loss of sight , most of the times tilesets have either multiple obstacles in the big or small room that prevents the juicy 8+ kills , we can already kill 5 and more enemies at a time , so you needed to choose and stay camping on a place where theres no obstacles around in a survival to get the most out f it , it was alrady pretty gimped when it comes to practicallity .
note; i really dont care for the nerfs as i already was not using it as much but just wanted to share my opinion.

[Mephane]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Community: this ability is terrible because it doesn't do a full one-shot, only a partial one-shot. So dumb, now I actually have to finish them off with my gun or melee with a few wacks. 

And are you guys capable of testing anything outside the simulacrum? You know there are actual missions in the game, right? 

An ability that does an effect on only the next attack and scales of the damage of that attack, basically is made for use with high damage singular attacks - finishers, sniper rifles, launchers etc. In other words, stuff that is meant to oneshot an enemy. If an enemy remains with half health after M4D and you have to finish them off with e.g. your sniper rifle anyway, you might as well just shoot them individual in the first place, because those shots would kill them with or without doing the M4D AoE prior.

So yes, this ability should oneshot groups of enemies when used with a weapon that is oneshots enemies individually anyway.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

Personally I liked the idea of this ability because it opened up the discussion for finishers.  It wasn't a particularly elegant way to make them a normal part of gameplay but it was a way.  It also had the bonus effect of making arcane trickery usable again.

I just don't understand DE's "intent" for the ability.  Standard gameplay doesn't differentiate with enemy types.  We have the capability to overkill enemies 3 times over from multiple sources.  We clear rooms faster with melee than most AoE effects.  Why would I bother getting into a specific setup to wipe only trash enemies while hoping not only a heavy unit is in the area but is also within range of trash mobs and said trash mobs are still in LoS after setup?

Garuda has a similar length of time setup for her nuke.  But her damage isn't capped and it goes through walls.  IMO that's always made up for the setup time.  Not a popular view by any means but it is mine. 

If DE wants to limit the damage on the ability than some of the restrictions need to be lifted.  At this point i've just accepted that WF is not "play your way" but rather "you're free to experiment in are very rigid and inflexible lines."  Maybe i've grown pessimistic in my age but I genuinely can't think of one time DE didn't squash player discovery for the sake of some invisible balance bar that we as players are never privy to.

I don't mind testing their game for them.  But if that's what they're going to use their playerbase for they either need to refund everyone everytime they make drastic changes to something in game that requires resources to commit to.  Or they need to open an actual test server and have this stuff done in a proper environment.  It pains me to see the helminth system turning out exactly like all the pessimists had predicted.

[Crabopoulos-Michael]

hace 14 minutos, killerJoke66 dijo:

2- M4D was already inconvienant with the loss of sight , most of the times tilesets have either multiple obstacles in the big or small room that prevents the juicy 8+ kills , we can already kill 5 and more enemies at a time , so you needed to choose and stay camping on a place where theres no obstacles around in a survival to get the most out f it , it was alrady pretty gimped when it comes to practicallity .
note; i really dont care for the nerfs as i already was not using it as much but just wanted to share my opinion.

Agree, it was powerful but limiting at the same time. I didn't see much use outside survival, It helped me pull some defense missions and cheese-kill the Stalker in SP with Ash but it wasn't the most reliable and consistent thing, not to mention how boring it gets after a while.

[Voltage]

37 minutes ago, killerJoke66 said:

1- how is M4D even comparable to xoris , one is a weapon that used to be a convenient stat stick and the other one is a literal warframe ability , in the terms of usage (outside of them being totally different things) how do you even compare ? xoris' niche was being able to not needing hit enemies for the weapon that you were stat sticking to and M4D is just a nuke 

I'm comparing the community reaction. Players use obviously broken mechanics and then "pikachu surprised face" when DE addresses it. Xoris is just the latest example that isn't Marked for Death. Players are so spoiled with powercreep I actually read justification for why the ability was fine even though it's an AoE of finisher damage.

[killerJoke66]

Broken you say ? dont know bout that chief 

[vegetosayajin]

5 minutes ago, Voltage said:

I'm comparing the community reaction. Players use obviously broken mechanics and then "pikachu surprised face" when DE addresses it. Xoris is just the latest example that isn't Marked for Death. Players are so spoiled with powercreep I actually read justification for why the ability was fine even though it's an AoE of finisher damage.

The reaction is not because of the nerf, but the severity of the nerf each time, like you said.
Your example with the xoris - they could have made it loose combo conter on exalted weapons like other weapons do, not kill it completely for them.
This one is another example for overnerf - they could have made it less powerful without killing it completely but they didn't.
You even said that in one of your posts.
The nerfs are expected, but this is not a nerf, this is a complete deletion.

The last viable nerf they have in terms of balance was with catchmoon. They did this and it's still powerful and usable, just not the only viable choice like before.
With the latest "balance" changs they just kill things completely. mfd is now as viable as loki's 1.