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Warframe- Helminth substituted ability


(PSN)thegarada

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This was a question Rebecca asked Steve on the dev stream, and Steve dodged, “buffing the abilities that are getting replaced.” 
 

Why would anyone replace an ability? It would be in this order:

1. The ability is bad.

2. The ability does not synergize With the frame’s play style or remaining abilities.

3. Diversify the frame’s play style.

So, here is the question, which we all know the answer for, why was Mesa skill 1 dropped, instead of her other 3 skills? How about Wukong skill 4? Valkyr skill 1? These skills are bad. This is why they are dropped.

I would combine the above with a question players do not have the answer for. From players who have a high enough MR, lets say 15, and access to the Helminth, what percentage of these players use the frame as is instead of substituting an ability?

You combine this with the above and you have a clear indication of what skills work and what skills do not. Example, we already know that Mesa 1 is the most substituted Ability for Mesa. Hypothetically, 90% of Mesa players who have the access to Helminth and the resources dropped this skill. This is a clear cut indication that the skill is bad. And so forth.

Is not time to fix dysfunctional skills for old frames? DE, you have all the data here. All you need is someone to put it in excel and calculate the ratios. I know that changing the skills is the real work, but it has been... years now. And I get it, fixing old stuff is not as big of money generator than a new Necrmech. However, you guys continuously improve graphics, sound and UI. Are not frames an integral part of gameplay? Can they get a balance run at least once a year?

 

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5 hours ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

Is not time to fix dysfunctional skills for old frames?

No it's not time to buff any frames, DE will Nerf Mesa/Wukong/Valkyrs' kits instead of make those power worth a #*!% to keep, Like honestly I'm afraid they'd rather Nerf warframe instead of buff their bad Abilities.

I Do agree those powers need a buff so that they aren't the clear choice for being subsumed.

DE has been pretty bad at listening to us within the last 2 years.

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3 hours ago, Zarcxon said:

No it's not time to buff any frames, DE will Nerf Mesa/Wukong/Valkyrs' kits instead of make those power worth a #*!% to keep, Like honestly I'm afraid they'd rather Nerf warframe instead of buff their bad Abilities.

I Do agree those powers need a buff so that they aren't the clear choice for being subsumed.

DE has been pretty bad at listening to us within the last 2 years.

Well... there is no indication that they are doing either. That is the issue. 

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7 hours ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

Why would anyone replace an ability? It would be in this order:

1. The ability is bad.

2. The ability does not synergize With the frame’s play style or remaining abilities.

3. Diversify the frame’s play style.

Does any of those fit this Graph?

974b40x.jpg

I do wonder who has been replacing her 4 though.

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1 hour ago, GPrime96 said:

Does any of those fit this Graph?

974b40x.jpg

I do wonder who has been replacing her 4 though.

Not all frames are the same. Garuda skills are all in similar effectiveness range. Most of the frames made in the last 2 years tend to be like that. And no surprise, skill 2 is the one that gets mostly dropped. Garuda is my second played frame and this skills is not needed. So, yes the criteria work. Skill 2 is not synergistic. It is, but there are many other sources of healing that do not require a utility skill. 

However, an opposite example would be Mesa. I main Valkyr and the first thing I got after I unlocked the Helminth, to no surprise, dropped ripline. Was it a surprise that both ripline and paralysis were among the most dropped skills? There are tons of other frames with useless skills like that. 

Going one by one is a waste of time since DE did that already through Ash-Inaros. Add to that, we do not have the other side, the percentage of players who have the resources necessary, but did not change any of the skills on the frame. You combine both and you have a strong idea of skills that are in a bad place.

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3 minutes ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

I main Valkyr and the first thing I got after I unlocked the Helminth, to no surprise, dropped ripline. Was it a surprisingly that both ripline and paralysis among the most dropped skills? 

Honestly, it’s either Ripline or Hysteria. After the Melee Rework, Hysteria turned into a decent - good Ability unless you used Arcane Energize to a dumpster Fire after the Combo Multiplier’s damage got removed from Exalted Weapons (except it didn’t matter as much for ranged Melee Exalteds). 

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2 minutes ago, GPrime96 said:

Honestly, it’s either Ripline or Hysteria. After the Melee Rework, Hysteria turned into a decent - good Ability unless you used Arcane Energize to a dumpster Fire after the Combo Multiplier’s damage got removed from Exalted Weapons (except it didn’t matter as much for ranged Melee Exalteds). 

This is completely beside the point of this thread. However, Hysteria is only used for 2 reasons:

Invulnerability.

Against, targets that are status immune. Hysteria still out dps melee weapons with x12 if the enemy is immune to status.

 

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