DE, come on! STOP nerfing accidental fun stuff.. What are you trying to prove?

[Arnul.]

Did they secretly nerf Rhinos roar? Not subsumed roar but Rhinos roar. I changed nothing from my build but I no longer get 225% roar. I'm barely getting 162% now. 

[(PSN)leonmjr]

The game is all about damage now so of course the most infused abilities would be... damage buff abilities.

They could work on improving enemy AI and previous content to keep their player base engaged but no keep releasing buggy new content islands and nerfing anything that becomes “popular”. 
 

The base has gotten bigger so the occurrence of player A discovering a better way to kill enemies and telling player B will definitely happen a lot faster now. It doesn’t mean that “oh everyone is going to put roar on Mesa and cast her 4 the whole time.” Some people like big damage numbers, it’s ok.

*edit I actually played with someone who put roar on Mesa in a mobile defense once. You know what, it made no difference they basically stood on the defense targets and killed just the same way as Mesa always has. They didn’t even get the most kills cause one guy blocked choke points with the ignis wraith. 

Every game has a group of players that will find the most effective setups, the meta, because maybe that’s how they enjoy playing the game. But you shouldn’t make such kneejerk reactions and punish the whole player base without any consolation. Helminth takes a crapton of time and resources to even get M4D or, really, to infuse just 1 ability for that matter. The result/reward should be representative of the investment.
 

Take Ivara for example. Why would I waste resources to put decoy on her when I can give her a damage reduction ability, speed buff or literally anything else?
 

Personally I didn’t care about MfD since Maim, Miasma, hell even Bladestorm worked better and required infinitely less investment. But for frames that needed an AOE damage option, it sounded cool. 
 

Warframe is pathetically easy. The fun, for me, comes from making and trying out different build setups and playing with others online. Every player is different in how they want to play this game.

I thought that was why we had different warframes to play?

 

[VanFanel1980mx]

On 2020-09-18 at 5:28 PM, Scar.brother.help.me said:

1. Xoris
2. Helminth (ROAR, etc)
3. Marked for Death

you give us too much salt in our sweet cups of tea lately

what's the point? 
If you want your game to be good and fun - then you do something opposite. Your update was much better before you started to nerf it pre-launch.

You could make a good present to your still kind of loyal fun base and actually start boosting the worst and least used abilities, gear, mechanics.
Try to make every update have a traditional revisit of some least used mod and just improve some numbers on it.  It would have been so cool, I'd wait every update to at least read about that. Your game needs revisits of old stuff much more often than you do. This is very important. There is too much meta stuff in this game and the only fun way to make it more diverse (sorry for the word diverse) is to give us more to choose from.
Your game is an endless grind and players are ok with that if they still play it. But the GRIND could be much more fun than it is now. We favor AOE damage abilities only because you stick to the horde-shooter and make them the most useful and least annoying. There is no fun in single target when you shoot a crowd. Make us some sniper missions, let us have fun with bow and throwing knives oriented content, Let us have some kind of miniboss waves endless mode, where we can fight stronger and stronger eximus+++/Arena Unit, one or a few at a time and test our gear like with steel path. Just try to make a few non-horde missions.
And more quality of life stuff, don't take it away from us (i.e. Xoris nerf or Greedy Pull) give us more instead (Let us Unbind Naramon Power Spike instead, and even Zenurik's Heavy attack efficiency instead)

Buff/Rework OLD stuff, don't nerf and limit good stuff.

I think it is called a power trip.

[olive44]

In the last stream I got disappointed so much because some devs that I'm not going to name seems that doesn't care at all about it.

[Krankbert]

Am 19.9.2020 um 02:56 schrieb Rinleric:

It's because the balancing team, for some ungodly reason, has this silly idea in their head that for some reason, Warframe is a PvP game. Wow, I can't believe this guy killed things more efficient than me! Guess I just won't play.........

No, the balancing team has this silly idea in their head that balancing matters in PvE games. A silly opinion that they share with the rest of the entire industry. But what do all game designers know, they just made every game. Let's just listen to forum warriors, I'm sure they know better.

[Krankbert]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb Colyeses:

Which is understandable for things that are genuinely busted. Catchmoon was OP. Itzal's blink was not.

Did you ever see anyone use anything except Itzal in an Open World? Getting rid of the blink wasn't the entire solution, but it was a necessary first step.

[Krankbert]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb ItsDaKoolaidDude:

christ, I havent even re-entered this game for 3 years and yet I'm still lingering out here in the fringes, just watching how quickly things are just going to crap recently.

You know any PC player can look at your profile, Old Mate?

[niblo]

Listen to me wery closely .... if u get offended beacue 1 thing gets nerfed whileu play looter game with 1000 things to combine and choose from you should take a brake .... legit you act like nerfs are not allowed in this game... ever game is nerfing and biffing stuff ... and the fact that you are butthurt that u got some nerfs u realy should take a brake and go outisde.... chill out

 

[Colyeses]

11 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

Did you ever see anyone use anything except Itzal in an Open World? Getting rid of the blink wasn't the entire solution, but it was a necessary first step.

It was absolutely not. Nothing changed until Railjack launched and we had a reason to use an archwing again. Even now, the distinction is simple: if you play Railjack, you use Amesha. If you don't, you still use Itzal.

As long as none of the combat abilities can be used in open world due to incessant oneshotting, people will continue to use Itzal, since it's faster.

The ground-to-air stuff should've limited height, not knocked you out of Archwing instantly.

[Krankbert]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Colyeses:

It was absolutely not. Nothing changed until Railjack launched and we had a reason to use an archwing again. Even now, the distinction is simple: if you play Railjack, you use Amesha. If you don't, you still use Itzal.

As long as none of the combat abilities can be used in open world due to incessant oneshotting, people will continue to use Itzal, since it's faster.

The ground-to-air stuff should've limited height, not knocked you out of Archwing instantly.

Is there some part of "it wasn't the entire solution" that you didn't understand?

[JackHargreav]

Geeee I wonder why those were nerfed.

Like it or not even a pve game needs balance. And the examples you brought up were all things that needed to be nerfed because everyone started to use those tools only. Which is not good.

The xoris didn't need anything to give you that infinite combo duration, unlike some people want you to beleive. Roar, Dispensary, Warcry would be far far more powerfull than a lot of other abilities. And they would be used way too much if they weren't nerfed. (Btw De could have choose other abilities. I ain't gonna argue about that but they didn't. That's a mistake on their part)

And marked for death was an other low effort one shot ability. Which needed a nerf because again a lot of players started to use it which is kinda problematic since it out shined other Helminth abilities and in a public setting it would have been an other annoyance. You could say that "Oh but Saryn and Mesa exists" but that's not an excuse to not balance anything. And those two frames aren't even used as much as people think. I actually rearly meet those two frames. I only ever met them in Eso and Hydron and even there they are not so common. 

[Jarriaga]

10 hours ago, ArnulfoTorres said:

Did they secretly nerf Rhinos roar? Not subsumed roar but Rhinos roar. I changed nothing from my build but I no longer get 225% roar. I'm barely getting 162% now. 

True Roar (Rhino) is 50% power strength.  A 225% buff would require 450% power strength. 

[Kaotyke]

15 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Check the Riven disposition update threads. You see the exact same people complaining release after release all the way back to revisions from early 2019. They post about their indignation as if it was the first time and you don't see some of them posting at any other time. 

Dummy accounts?

Have we checked?

I WANT NAMES!

[Aldain]

Gotta love how we've devolved the definition of fun to "playing the game as little as possible by eliminating anything that could cause gameplay to be needed".

That said, they likely overdid it a smidge.

[vanaukas]

11 hours ago, ItsDaKoolaidDude said:

"What would you do if every Helminth ability was good?"

idk, DE. maybe have FUN for once? maybe have a reason to stick around rather than treat you and this game like a one-night-lay?

Why do you play a game with "no fun"?

[Colyeses]

5 hours ago, Krankbert said:

Is there some part of "it wasn't the entire solution" that you didn't understand?

That's still a far cry from 'it wasn't the solution at all'. Itzal's Blink removal did nothing. Giving the other Archwings purpose did. If not for Railjack, Itzal would still have 100% pickrate!

[Krankbert]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Colyeses:

That's still a far cry from 'it wasn't the solution at all'. Itzal's Blink removal did nothing. Giving the other Archwings purpose did. If not for Railjack, Itzal would still have 100% pickrate!

So all of it?

[ReddyDisco]

i really wish DE would take the buff route instead of nerf

if the stats show a increased number of usage of a specific ability then buff the unused ones so they get looked at more, ppl get tired of the same thing. gives us more options for fun not take away fun all together

[(PSN)Glitschig]

5 hours ago, JackHargreav said:. Roar, Dispensary, Warcry would be far far more powerfull than a lot of other abilities. And they would be used way too much if they weren't nerfed. (Btw De could have choose other abilities. I ain't gonna argue about that but they didn't. That's a mistake on their part)

 

I agree, in the current state.  I will take it a step further and say that the fact that it is ONLY these type of powers that people gravitate towards says something about the true issue- there are just a LOT of worthless space junk weapons and Warframe abilities floating out there that leave very few options when given the opportunity to beef things up.  In other words, if my Nyx or Nova were already a solid frame with no obvious dog abilities and weakspits in their kit, then I wouldn't need to go looking for something better.  Some frames like Saryn, harrow, etc,etc, kind of have very complimentary kits which make you say "I'm of. This is good." Where others, even good frames that lots of people play (like, say, Inaros), have big holes that people immediately look to upgrade.  
 

I remember seeing someone post "when Helminth comes outm what powers are you going to give up...and why Inaros sandstorm?". I thought was extremely dead on accurate and telling in a truthful way.  Lots of people like Inaros but very few people ever touch his 3.  Wukong's "ultimate 4" is the first scrapped power.  Etc.  It shows the foundation and need to be stronger I stead of offering replacement parts across the board and then expecting us not to choose the best 4-5 from the list of 50. 

[Colyeses]

49 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

So all of it?

It's hyperbole, but it did have a far higher pickrate than the others.

[SenorClipClop]

On 2020-09-19 at 10:02 AM, Rinleric said:

And a lot of times, their efforts to nerf things aren't because it's making the game braindead, or easier.

I'm pretty sure that's exactly the basis for a lot of nerfs.

• Bladestorm and Peacemaker changed because they used to be "one button everything dies" ability and now you have to aim them
• Arca Plasmor used to count headshots whenever any of its truck-sized projectile caught an enemy's head
• Catchmoon range nerfed because it was too easy to just spam its hallway-sized wave down a hallway.
• Kuva Bramma nerfed with fewer splash bomblets and lowered ammo, forcing players to shoot tactically instead of just spamming everywhere
• Simulor, active fire now better damage than passive damage, used to be opposite, now no longer encourages just spamming it all over the map
• Greedy Pull nerfed to mitigate endless ult spam
• Shield Disruption nerfed vs Eidolons so players could completely skip the first phase of a two-phase boss fight
• Mass Vitrify originally had no health, only duration. Throw out a wall, win any defense with zero effort. Nerfed so players had to play the game
• Melee weapons nerfed to no longer clip through walls, removing the "strat" of spamming slide with a whip against a doorframe for 2 hours of Survival
• others, I'm sure...

[Toppien]

On 2020-09-18 at 6:25 PM, _Anise_ said:

not specifically buffing it, they only said they would take another look at it, because the people that usually balance were on rotating vacation or something like that.

they could easily take another look and decide they are happy with it

wait....THERES PEOPLE THAT DO BALANCE?!

huh...

[Krankbert]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb ABlindGuyPlays:

And the part thwt throws salt on top of salt here is how they quickly hold up stats going 'its just fax gies' for nerfs and when those stats show a thing needs a buff 'it is what it is'

You mean the popularity stats they showed? On what abilities get replaced most often? In and of themselves, those are worthless. Popularity isn't what decides whether something does or doesn't need a nerf. That's just something people on this forum accuse DE of thinking because they don't understand the concept of game balancing on any level.

[kgabor]

16 minutes ago, Toppien said:

wait....THERES PEOPLE THAT DO BALANCE?!

huh...

They are always on vacation.

[WingsOfGryphin]

You need to think carefully what is considered 'fun' in Warframe. 
Progression leap is fun, but it's short lasting dopemine dose and only introduces problems in long term. 
They introduced Marked for Death ability which nukes thousand level grineers. An AoE nuke. Thousand level grineer. You don't see anything wrong with that? 
Sure it's a leap in power and something people are hungry for. But how long it's going to last? Few weeks? Few months? A short while before people want to have new toys to play with. And you know what's the problem? These "new" toys will have to be better than old ones. Still don't see a problem with overall picture? 
Look back in past. My memory might not be good, but i still recall that we have called many things "fun" that DE supposedly took away from us, that would also no longer be fun in today's standards. How does that work? Fun shouldn't change like that. Because it's not the fun that you're describing - it's the dopemine rush from having super OP combination. OP combinations only last for a little while before everyone accepts it as a current meta and get bored of it after while. What's worse is that people will eventually start generating desires for something MOAR. A new meta that takes things up a noch. 

You have to keep the progression rush in a reasonable level and not give a huge burst of power creep that people will get used to otherwise it will end in these kind of whine posts "Oh, nice new warframe, BUT GUESS WHAT? IT'S S#&$! Why do we need this x warframe, when slash proc can already do the same thing? Heck i can even kill level 8000 grinners by sneezing at them. So what's the point of this new Warframe? What does it bring to the meta? NOTHING! It's Trash, good job DE" 
 

Sometimes it just makes me really angry knowing that there are many people who are not capable of understanding this.