DE, come on! STOP nerfing accidental fun stuff.. What are you trying to prove?

[modalmojo]

I agree accidental fun stuff should be further developed into the gameplay after being fine tuned, some players being clever should be encouraged, this makes the game more fun.

[(PSN)XxDrakenguardxX]

35 minutes ago, modalmojo said:

I agree accidental fun stuff should be further developed into the gameplay after being fine tuned, some players being clever should be encouraged, this makes the game more fun.

You mean like that orbiting glaive thing that would have been hella cool as an actual feature?

Sadly DE is DE and they hate any form of fun that isn't braindead slaughter... Actually I think they'd be better off leaving combat challenges to the star chart and create more mechanically interesting missions for more difficult content.

Maybe if less modes were about having a MT Everest sized body count then fun might actually be a thing again, because if the objective isn't to kill then damage won't be the ONLY factor. Because it's painfully obvious that nothing with a health bar they put in front of us can't be melted in two seconds with enough setup.

 

sry about the rant that bit wasn't really directed at anyone.

[TheGodofWiFi]

11 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

How do you buff Decoy, an aggro sponge, to be a desirable pick over a 30-50% buff that gives you multiplicative damage similar to that of a faction mod?

You can't.

You rework it into something useful. 

11 hours ago, Krankbert said:

It's strange how it's always Decoy, isn't it? Almost as if you guys were all just repeating something.

Because we are in order to get the point across just how pointless DE's choice was. The Helminth system was the perfect excuse for DE to tweak/rework some of the old frames abilities, but they didn't do that and so the bad abilities remain bad, while the good abilities take a hit in stats. It was a pointless nerf that achieved nothing.

10 hours ago, trst said:

Please explain how Decoy could be buffed to be on par with Roar. No really please do as people like you keep repeating this without ever giving a single example.

Give it a rework so that it's actually damn useful, like say along the lines of Mirage or Wukong's clones. Like perhaps they could have rework it so that the clone is invincible and absorbs all of the damage the enemies throw at for the length of its duration and then at the end of the duration the decoy explodes in an AOE inflicting all the built up damage as slash. That's one way to make it much more useful than what it is at the moment.

10 hours ago, trst said:

While that should be addressed it still remains a fact that fixing stat sticks is an immense task relative to knocking out a single outlier who's interaction was seemingly unintended.

Why does it need to be addressed? Stat sticks are basically the only things that make Exalted melee even worth it these days as normal weapons still far out-perform them. You take that away and then what is the point of using any exalted melee at all. None.

Also, the Xoris interaction wasn't unintended. DE like to say that a lot but the fact is they left it in the game long enough for people to get used to it as usual.

11 hours ago, trst said:

Again please describe how other abilities could be on par with something that could instantly kill a room of enemies by hitting the games integer cap with two button presses.

Seeing as how most of the other Helminth abilities do not focus on damage, then there is not a realistic way to make them on par with M4D. How do you fix this? You buff the other abilities.

[Pizzarugi]

  

1 hour ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Because we are in order to get the point across just how pointless DE's choice was. The Helminth system was the perfect excuse for DE to tweak/rework some of the old frames abilities, but they didn't do that and so the bad abilities remain bad, while the good abilities take a hit in stats. It was a pointless nerf that achieved nothing.

DE could've simply avoided not including OP skills to warrant argumentation on what needs to be buffed and tweaked or not. For example, if Rhino Charge was included instead of Roar or Protea's 1 instead of Dispensary, you'd most likely see people choose different options and spread their choices more evenly across the board. People would look at Helminth as fun gimmicks which could have fun combos on certain frames (ex. Banish on Loki's Decoy) instead of as a tier list of what is worth taking over everything else.

1 hour ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Give it a rework so that it's actually damn useful, like say along the lines of Mirage or Wukong's clones. Like perhaps they could have rework it so that the clone is invincible and absorbs all of the damage the enemies throw at for the length of its duration and then at the end of the duration the decoy explodes in an AOE inflicting all the built up damage as slash. That's one way to make it much more useful than what it is at the moment.

Unless Decoy's slash explosion always procs, which would make it OP compared to Roar, nobody's still going to pick it over a multiplicative damage buff. Seriously, +30% faction damage isn't to be scoffed at, especially when you can mod it up to 75% or more.

1 hour ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Why does it need to be addressed? Stat sticks are basically the only things that make Exalted melee even worth it these days as normal weapons still far out-perform them. You take that away and then what is the point of using any exalted melee at all. None.

Also, the Xoris interaction wasn't unintended. DE like to say that a lot but the fact is they left it in the game long enough for people to get used to it as usual.

You only need to go so far as to look at how Brozime abuses it with Khora to see what new meta is going to crop up because of it. Just one more "press one button to win the game" frame we shouldn't be adding to the list.

The solution to fixing exalted weapons isn't to keep a stat stick that made the strong ones broken. The solution is actually buff the exalteds that need it (or nerf melee down to its level, ideally).

1 hour ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Seeing as how most of the other Helminth abilities do not focus on damage, then there is not a realistic way to make them on par with M4D. How do you fix this? You buff the other abilities.

How do you buff Infested Mobility or Perspicacity to be worthwhile picks over a 10m base range nuke primer? My Revenant could run faster and jump higher, I guess, or I can just 1shot entire rooms with 1+3 at 250% strength with M4D. Nobody's going to pick the Helminth companion ability over a high-range Fatal Teleport Ash or Trinity who only need to push 1 button to make the room go poof.

The game already has a problem with nuke frames pervading most teams, we really shouldn't be adding more to the list.

[TheGodofWiFi]

23 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

DE could've simply avoided not including OP skills to warrant argumentation on what needs to be buffed and tweaked or not.

Yes but they didn't do that, so we're stuck with what we have which is a clear meta, despite DE's "effort" to avoid that.

Like I said; DE's planning and common sense departments don't actually talk to each other.

25 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

Unless Decoy's slash explosion always procs, which would make it OP compared to Roar

Which is why I said it could be one of the ways they could make Decoy better. The slash procs could be capped at a certain damage so as to make both Roar and a newly improved Decoy good choices, but offer just enough differences for people to actually need to think about which one to choose.

28 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

The solution is actually buff the exalteds that need it (or nerf melee down to its level, ideally).

Seriously this is what has always baffled me about this community. How in the name of the Gods is a nerf more ideal for a buff? How is making the game worse, a better option? It's like people have become so used to things being nerfed that they believe nerfing is the ideal way to go as opposed to improving the things around the subject.

Brozime using Khora is a completely isolated example and no you cannot see a meta arising. Khora is not to everyone's taste.

31 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

Nobody's going to pick the Helminth companion ability over a high-range Fatal Teleport Ash or Trinity who only need to push 1 button to make the room go poof.

No, you're right, which is why that the other abilities needed to be buffed with extra benefits that actually made players think about choosing. DE make such awful decisions when designing abilities and its their fault a meta emerges, because as you said, who the helheim will be choosing a companion healing power over a direct damage one. DE needed to add more benefits to the other abilities.

This is one of the reasons why I think DE continuing to endlessly release new frames and weapons is just killing the game, because it creates clear problems like this and doesn't allow DE to actually fix old abilities, since they release a frame that makes an old one obsolete.

[S3EK3R]

32 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

 

No, you're right, which is why that the other abilities needed to be buffed with extra benefits that actually made players think about choosing. DE make such awful decisions when designing abilities and its their fault a meta emerges, because as you said, who the helheim will be choosing a companion healing power over a direct damage one. DE needed to add more benefits to the other abilities.

If players have the option to remove rooms with two button presses because the damage reaches the integer cap then they will choose that regardless of anything else.

[ZzVinniezZ]

because "No fun allowed" is what DE motto in the past years

[Hypernaut1]

When someone says "nobody will use X because of roar" what they actually mean to say is "my favorite YouTuber wont use X because using roar brings them views" 

Not all of us use the meta. Roar is powerful but boring to put on every frame.  

Fun doesnt just mean "nuking for views". We aren't all trying to impress people with damage numbers. 

 

[SourSonder]

I'd like to thank DE for nerfing Exodia Contagion. You know that Exodia from plague star that nobody really used? then everyone used for the scarlet spear event? As it went through the rift, but then they removed that feature so it stopped getting used? Yeah that one. I can honestly count on one hand the amount of players I've come across in regular missions using it. It was my main playstyle and fun too, but now since the nerf it does 100 times less damage, and I'm not exaggerating, legit 100 times less damage. So once again Thanks DE.

 

[CodeUltimate]

23 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

oh my, I even forgot about this Arcane since the end of that event where it was cool
it wasn't even OP to begin with and I've switched to Hunt in my slam zaws right after the event, and it was already nerfed from Limbo's rift - why even touch it more? was it nerfed badly beyond any reason to ever use it again?

yup not even with  blood rush and riven. They completely killed it since it no longer scales from your zaw stats and has a fixed amount of cc and status.

[SourSonder]

2 minutes ago, CodeUltimate said:

yup not even with  blood rush and riven. They completely killed it since it no longer scales from your zaw stats and has a fixed amount of cc and status.

I didn't even have it as a crit build, my build was status. And somehow the nerf to crit screwed that over too. I've rolled my riven for my kripath over 100 times to get the perfect roll for my status build thinking, everyone uses a crit build, so I'll be fine if they nerf crit. How wrong I was.

[johnno23]

They want balance so give players choice. 300 weapons where 275 of them are junk and the 25 good ones get nerfed is not player choice. 

Yes an exaggerated comment but close enough to the truth. You would not need to say Oops way to popular so nerf it to make people pick up an alternative. If the alternatives are left alone ask yourself why.

As for Helminth and the complaints...... well that is your own fault again for tryin to please people with teasers in a stream and then thinking Hmmm maybe we should nerf before release. The nerfs that came later well I ain't gonna get into that argument but i will say there is a chart that clearly shows what people junk and replace. But that same chart instead of nerfing the top as 90% of players go there buff the lower end that might make people stop flocking to the handful of only good choices. There are many more reasons people ignore other items not just because of damage numbers.

[CodeUltimate]

2 minutes ago, SourSonder said:

I didn't even have it as a crit build, my build was status. And somehow the nerf to crit screwed that over too. I've rolled my riven for my kripath over 100 times to get the perfect roll for my status build thinking, everyone uses a crit build, so I'll be fine if they nerf crit. How wrong I was.

The thing is that even the damage is kinda bugged it kinda feels like fake crits or something but crit damage is not boosting the exodia contagian dmg output. I just hope DE gives us a direct notice about the nerf but so far 3 months have passed and we still haven't got any mention about it.

[SourSonder]

Just now, CodeUltimate said:

The thing is that even the damage is kinda bugged it kinda feels like fake crits or something but crit damage is not boosting the exodia contagian dmg output. I just hope DE gives us a direct notice about the nerf but so far 3 months have passed and we still haven't got any mention about it.

Yeah, I noticed that too, only a few days ago, I was messing around in the simulacrum with Exodia contagion and getting great damage numbers, then this morning I go to fortuna and I cant even consistently kill standard enemies with it.

[ItsDaKoolaidDude]

On 2020-09-20 at 2:34 AM, Krankbert said:

You know any PC player can look at your profile, Old Mate?

Not the point, mate.

[ItsDaKoolaidDude]

On 2020-09-20 at 8:08 AM, vanaukas said:

Why do you play a game with "no fun"?

Because maybe was led to believe the game was fun and only watched it become no fun along the way?

[ItsDaKoolaidDude]

On 2020-09-19 at 11:26 PM, VanFanel1980mx said:

I think it is called a power trip.

The whole game is a power trip tbh. How else do you explain how the enemies have ludicrous HP&Defense to make things "difficult"?

[Krankbert]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb ItsDaKoolaidDude:

Not the point, mate.

Okay. What was the point? Please explain it to me, because I don't get it. When you lied about not having played the game in three years, apparently not knowing that anyone can look at your profile and see that you definitely spent quite a bit of time in content that was released a lot later, what exactly was the point?

[vanaukas]

2 hours ago, ItsDaKoolaidDude said:

Because maybe was led to believe the game was fun and only watched it become no fun along the way?

so you can't form your own opinions and "are being lead" by other to judge things? Wooh...

[-Krux-]

On 2020-09-18 at 8:56 PM, Rinleric said:

It's because the balancing team, for some ungodly reason, has this silly idea in their head that for some reason, Warframe is a PvP game. Wow, I can't believe this guy killed things more efficient than me! Guess I just won't play.........

Now, that said, I understand not having /one single option/ for high end stuff, and thus balancing in required. Balancing things hard as if they're being designed for a PvP setting or at the very least a competitive one, is frankly moronic. No one asked for nerfs to M4D. Actually, correction. The people abusing the heck out of saryn, mesa, equinox, ember etc. are the ones who likely complained, if anyone. Wow, this guy did 98% of the damage. But he only got like 6 kills, when the other people have 100+. Whew, guess we just can't let that slide.

Apparently we're actually playing a hardcore, competitive PvP game, guys and gals.

I stop reading the thread here. This is the thought that echoes in my mind, "the balancing team, for some ungodly reason, has this silly idea in their head that for some reason, Warframe is a PvP game". Say no more, we should be able to nuke rooms.

In fact, we should be able to get ungodly spawn rates if we want. We don't necessarily need super high level meat bags that soak up tons of damage. Reasonable enemies, crazy high spawn rates, and us nuking them.. a little thing called "fun".

[ChaoticEdge]

can I be sarcastic about this? fug it I am going do it anyway, good job DE you nerf things like you did like last time like the Bramma, here is applause for you.

[ItsDaKoolaidDude]

6 hours ago, Krankbert said:

Okay. What was the point? Please explain it to me, because I don't get it. When you lied about not having played the game in three years, apparently not knowing that anyone can look at your profile and see that you definitely spent quite a bit of time in content that was released a lot later, what exactly was the point?

OK to explain why you looking over at my profile and seeing that I "played" recently: 
Yes I may have been back at some point recently, but what you don't know and what the profile doesn't tell you is that I had reinstalled and stayed for about 5 min before uninstalling and leaving again after three years. So firstly, buzz off as my activity is not your business nor does it add to your point or mine.

The point is exactly as I said in the post. There's barely anything worth to stick around or keep around and the recent updates don't add any incentive to try.

6 hours ago, vanaukas said:

so you can't form your own opinions and "are being lead" by other to judge things? Wooh...

so we have to magically pull opinions out of the void itself and have to arrogantly assume everyone else can't form opinions? woah...

[VanFanel1980mx]

8 hours ago, ItsDaKoolaidDude said:

The whole game is a power trip tbh. How else do you explain how the enemies have ludicrous HP&Defense to make things "difficult"?

That's not what I meant, I was talking about spiteful DEvelopers.

[ItsDaKoolaidDude]

Just now, VanFanel1980mx said:

That's not what I meant, I was talking about spiteful DEvelopers.

Fair enough. Far as I can tell Scott's the most obvious.

[vanaukas]

18 minutes ago, ItsDaKoolaidDude said:

so we have to magically pull opinions out of the void itself and have to arrogantly assume everyone else can't form opinions? woah...

No, opinions should be made based on experience or at least some knowledge/research, if you let someone else "lead you to believe something" (in this case, you said "they lead you to believe the game was fun") it's because you are choosing to believe that, because no one can force you to believe in this kind of things, unless you are too weak to the word. And no, because you aren't enjoying the game anymore doesn't mean anyone lied to you or something, so...