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Why the Next Umbra Frame Should Be Ash


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I'd like to start off by saying I've just recently returned to playing this game about a month ago after a 5 year break (Atlas had JUST come out when I stopped playing). I've very much enjoyed all the changes DE has made to this game and after playing for a Month I still have so much to do and I'm having more fun than I've ever had playing this game. Now, being an old player; I obviously have old weapons and warframes; Ash, Excal, Rhino, Loki, are pretty much the Warframe I use exclusively. I've tried some of the new frames and they just don't do it for me, ya know? When I got the "The Sacrifice", and one of my favorite frames go an "Umbra" version, I was extremely happy. Easily my most used Warframe since I got him. 

I really like the whole Umbra idea and from what I've managed to read, so does a lot of the player base. I've read all about how DE said Umbra was going to be a new series but not like Prime, blah blah blah, you guys know it. My only disappointment was when most of the player base seems to think that Rhino should be the next Umbra. Here's why I think it shouldn't be Rhino and should be Ash. 

Here are some pictures from the most recent Dev Stream, I think you guys know what it is:

Most Subsumed Warframes
2020.09.18-14.44.png

 

Most Applied Helminth Abilities

2020.09.18-14.45.png

 

Most Replaced Abilities

2020.09.18-14.47.png

 

Everyone here knows all about how Rhino is the most Subsumed and "Roar" is the most used Warframe ability, that's not what I find interesting. Look at Ash. He's the 4th most Subsumed Warframe, yet his Subsumed Ability, "Seeking Shuriken", is literally not even on the graph. The funniest thing too, is that his "Seeking Shuriken", is the 10th most replaced ability; along with his ult being the 22nd most replaced. So based of these Graphs we can come to the conclusion that the community doesn't like 2/4 of Ash's abilities. Let's not beat around the bush. "Seeking Shuriken" sucks. It's so bad unless you have the augment for it; and that takes away an entire mod slot just to make his ability viable.

It makes me sad to see that "Blade Storm" is being replaced as much as it is, considering when I used to play it wiped entire rooms. Now, it's so bad players are replacing an ultimate for a basic ability from another frame. Just to cover my bases, if your response to my statement is, "Well there are other frames that have their 4's being replaced. Loki, Rhino, etc.". To that I say, good observation, but Ash is, or used to be like Mesa/Saryn. Big damage dealer. I don't see anyone replacing Mesa's 4 here, or Saryn's. You'd be insane to do so considering how busted those abilities are on their respective frames. Which is what Ash's is supposed to be! 

On top of his abilities being outdated to the point of being bad, Ash is just a buggy Warframe. "Blade Storm" is notorious for bugging out. If I join my "Blade Storm" there's a 50% chance something goes wrong. Either my camera stops following my warframe, or I can no longer press my 4 and I can't fall anymore, or I'm stuck in the air! "Teleport" sometimes doesn't proc the finisher it's supposed to give you, which is why running the "Fatal Teleport" augment is so good, less chances of it bugging out and extra damage. "Seeking Shuriken" literally does it's own thing, which might be one of the reasons why no one likes it. I'll aim one way, and my shurikens will U-Turn on me and attack someone else. Feel like the game is spinning a wheel to figure out what to attack some times, the ability is completely wild. The only ability that has no problems is "Smoke Screen" other than just being a little too short.

Making Ash the next Umbra will give DE a reason to go back and fix his issues and maybe even give him a complete rework. Ash was the OG Edgelord, he deserves to be looked at and given the Umbra treatment. 

Thanks for coming to my TED Talk. 

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Ash 1 at least has a good augment. Ash 4 is actually good for niche missions.
Chroma 1 and 4 are worse than Ash 1.
Frost 1 and 2 are worse than Ash 1.
Atlas 2 lol...
Volt 1 and 2.
Inaros 3.
So many frames have poor abilities that in my opinion DE should focus on improving existing skills instead of making new frames and weapons.
Everybody knows theres no end game and making new stuff for leveling MR is just bad.

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If there ever going to be another Umbra frame (or whatever it will be called), it will probably be:

1. Shield heavy frame.

2. Female, since the previous was male.

3. One of the first few frames.

It will have nothing to do with performance.

If there ever going to be one, it probably will be Mag. 

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13 minutes ago, kevoisvevo said:

Lol they ain't giving another umbra. The only reason they gave Excalibur an umbra is because normal players can't get Excalibur prime

Pretty much this, and I don't want to have to now own another version of a frame just because it has a specter gimmick attached to it or looks slightly different.....give me an item like the  Special Transference bolt on Excal Umbra to allow my already existing version of warframes to do the same thing

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2 hours ago, Imniscor said:

Inaros 3.

Yup. First ability replacement I did was replacing Inaros' Sandstorm with "literally anything else." Master's Call, I think it was at the time, simply because that's all I had available. That ability is worse than useless.

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Why the next umbra frame shouldn't exist:

• makes no sense

• we don't need another line of primes (that's basically what it would turn into), we already have too much bloat versions for everything in the game

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24 minutes ago, (XB1)TyeGoo said:

Why the next umbra frame shouldn't exist:

• makes no sense

• we don't need another line of primes (that's basically what it would turn into), we already have too much bloat versions for everything in the game

No reason why it makes no sense and plenty of people have shown interest for more Umbra frames.

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If there really, really HAD to be another umbra frame, Valkyr or Nyx would make sense to me. Valkyr already likes the umbral mods a lot, while having an exalted melee weapon as well, and it provides a chance to clean up the continuity butchery that is the zanuka-gersemi-prime-whatever timeline while also getting cheap mileage out of Alad V('s voice acting). Nyx on the other hand would be grounds to introduce other types of umbra mods which I'm not sure would be a good idea, but is of course the 'counterpart' to excalibur. Also they're both female obviously.

Ash just needs some very firm TLC

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4 hours ago, (XB1)TyeGoo said:

Why the next umbra frame shouldn't exist:

• makes no sense

• we don't need another line of primes (that's basically what it would turn into), we already have too much bloat versions for everything in the game

Yeah, I say let the whole umbra concept die. 

It was a way for DE to give a prime-ish version of Excal and it actually did get people to mostly shut up about it. I rarely see people asking for Excal Prime anymore, not nearly with the frequency of the old days anyways. It worked. They made a sidegrade to Excal Prime with his own unique theme, left the founders with their own, separate upgraded version, and now we can all move on. Umbra served it's purpose, we don't need anymore. 

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4 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

99% sure DE said the Umbras will be limited to the 3 starters.

I am certain that at some point we will get Mag with new set of Umbra shield related mods. I doubt that we will get one for Volt, but maybe.

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Il y a 5 heures, (PS4)reddragonhrcro a dit :

No reason why it makes no sense and plenty of people have shown interest for more Umbra frames.

 

Warframes are basically brainless, soulless husks that need the "operator's guidance" in order to function correctly.

Based on the quest, Excal Umbra is still "living" and has a (very damaged) mind of its own, hence why it can act as a specter in and of itself.

 

It wouldn't make sense from a lore perspective (currently) to have every frame also have an Umbra variant. 

 

Il y a 1 heure, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 a dit :

99% sure DE said the Umbras will be limited to the 3 starters.

 

I'm not completely doubting you, but can you imagine potentially have 9 Umbral mods to use, with how slow they dole out Umbral Formas? They would have to make U.Formas much more easily obtainable before they even thought about making 2 more Umbra frames, with potentially new Umbra mods.

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26 minutes ago, Els236 said:

Warframes are basically brainless, soulless husks that need the "operator's guidance" in order to function correctly.

Based on the quest, Excal Umbra is still "living" and has a (very damaged) mind of its own, hence why it can act as a specter in and of itself.

It wouldn't make sense from a lore perspective (currently) to have every frame also have an Umbra variant.

Lore-wise the first line of warframes made were Umbra, it wasn't until the Orokin learned enough about the Umbra that they were able to make other Warframes.

28 minutes ago, Els236 said:

I'm not completely doubting you, but can you imagine potentially have 9 Umbral mods to use, with how slow they dole out Umbral Formas? They would have to make U.Formas much more easily obtainable before they even thought about making 2 more Umbra frames, with potentially new Umbra mods.

Umbral Formas drop from Railjack missions in the void proxima, they are already easier to obtain.

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il y a 5 minutes, Justice_Ember a dit :

Umbral Formas drop from Railjack missions in the void proxima, they are already easier to obtain.

 

As far as I was aware, they removed being able to find U. Formas in the caches aboard the Sentient Anomaly, leading to only being able to obtain them from the Nightwave Reward table.

 

Citation
  • Prior to version 27.3.6, Umbra Formas could be found in Rare Crate spawning inside of Murex ships in Veil Proxima. They were removed due to a "security issue", making Nightwave the only way of getting them.

- From the WIKI.

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3 minutes ago, Els236 said:

 

As far as I was aware, they removed being able to find U. Formas in the caches aboard the Sentient Anomaly, leading to only being able to obtain them from the Nightwave Reward table.

 

- From the WIKI.

Missed that one, point taken they need to make the U formas easier to obtain

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@ZaanoxThe topic about umbra Ash, this is something that I would like to see at the time however I don`t really about care about it now seen as DE hasn’t really said anything about new umbras for a while and umbra Ash will take a while to be released.

 

As for the topic of Ash himself, he does not need a rework, the concept of his abilities is solid he just needs a revisit to improve his abilities. After his revisit, Ash has become one of the most controversial warframe to talk about because of mixed opinions, I have been talking about Ash issues for years and some ppl I talk to give me stupid invalid reason to why he doesn’t need a revisit.

Some comments;

“His damage”

“He`s perfect”

“seeking shuriken”

“fatal teleport”

 

These reason don`t make ash better even if the bugs he has were fixed, the only reason Ash is still played is coz of the meta and if the meta moves away from damage then Ash will be even less popular.

If someone said “I am aware of the issues he has but I still like to play him” I respect that person coz at least they are acknowledging that his has issue but like to play him still (like me) however if you`re saying he`s perfect or that he is fine then you`re an idiot, stats after stats and ppl`s actions proves the state Ash is in and that he needs a revisit. I literally feel like commander Shepard telling ppl the reapers are coming and no matter the amount of proof on top of proof I present, ppl don`t believe me (Mass Effect reference) or that I have taken the red pill while everyone else has taken the blue pill.

 

Thank you for giving you opinion on Ash, what I like about you opinion the most is the fact that you when away for 5 years and came back which within that time Ash has had a revisit (nerf) showing that you remember the way old bs use to work and you are playing the current Ash fresh.

 

I highly recommend you to checkout my post on him, it`s presents his issues and the ways to fix them and a revisit for him, it`s called Ash: his current problems and the solutions to fix them.

I would like to hear your opinion on my revisit to Ash since it sounds like you like to play him, it`s very informative and it`s not just a post you read once and click off, if you read on after you will see more information about Ash (the post will tell you how to view them)

 

Here is a snip from my post listing his bladestorm issues;

Spoiler

·       The two stages of the killing process make bs slow, because of this, other players can take his kills before you get a chance to kill them which makes him not helpful in the team, not fun to play and in a fast-pasted game this is bad.

 

·       Marking enemies for some players is sickening because of the motion of moving the cursor onto enemies, even though it`s easier (but still a problem) to do this using a mouse, doing this on a controller is not as easy, an ability should be able to be easy to use no matter what you use.

 

·       Because enemies are highlighted by your chosen energy colour, it will make enemies more visible to other players to go and kill them which in their minds is a top priority.

 

·       If you want the full damage of bs, you have to mark the enemies three times which will slow you down or  makes you stationary (if you want to do it quickly) to mark enemies with three marks. In low-level missions, your energy will be refunded back to you if you over mark and in high levels you obviously going to want the full damage of it so there is absolutely no point in having to choose the amount of damage you want to dish out. With the old bs, you had the full damage regardless.

 

·       Bodies disappearing makes it to where you can`t bring him in a desecrating team with a nekros. While bodies disappearing makes sense on paper for him being a ninja and I like the idea, unfortunately, this just makes him a problem in that team.

 

·       The indicator shows how many marks instead of how many enemies affected by bs. Because of this, you have no idea how many enemies are going to be killed. If it showed how many enemies affected by bs, it will let the play know when to use bs again.

 

·       Using your 2nd ability to use less energy is not synergy. Synergy is meant to be a choice that makes a difference in missions however, this so-called synergy is a must to use it consistently which makes it a bad gimmick.

 

·       Because of the synergy between his 2nd & 4th ability, you are forced to mod for duration to benefit from using less energy for bs since most people are not going to use bs while it`s taking more energy.

 

·       Using the 3rd ability to join the animation costs no energy but you need energy to be able to use it which makes no sense plus, in low-level missions, sometimes you`re not even going to get a chance use your 3rd ability because the apparitions have killed the enemies already. (depending on how many enemies you mark)

 

·       Apparitions (clones) appearance is not consistent. The visuals go from looking like you custom coloured Ash to a hologram version, to the original ash look with default colours. Also, this is a bug that the old bs had which means it has not been fixed.

 

·       When marking, you can`t mark enemies that are behind walls or objects which make you have to run around searching for enemies to kill and if you in a team, your marked enemies will be killed off by your teammates.

 

·       Even if Ash`s damage has increased to 2,000, (his damage now is still great) the damage is not as good compared to the old bs. The apparitions of the old bs was like Saryn`s 1st ability damage but slightly better, (and the terminator) the apparitions would not stop killing until the enemies were dead and even though attack speed mods can increase their killing speed, with the current bs, the apparitions only attack three times however the bleeding damage speed cannot.

 

·       Because of the way it works, it makes shuriken not favoured in use due to the amount of energy bs costs when modding and how much damage it does and how quick enemies will be killed when activated. This make some people use bs over shuriken.

 

·       The marking mechanic makes the ability ineffective in close-quarter, tight spaces which is what  the majority of the tilesets are, this makes the ability less effective and mostly useless even more so it a team.

 

·       You can`t pick and choose what enemies you want to kill; (which people claim you can do) on paper it makes sense however in practise the idea is not useful. For example, if you wanted to mark an energy eximus in-between two other enemies and you only have enough energy to mark one enemy, you are not able to.

 

Reasons;

· Enemies are running around to where you will either run out of energy or you simply can`t mark the eximus.

· You will have to stand there trying to mark that one enemy.

· You have a chance to get hit by a stray bullet or by an explosion whether you use your 2nd ability or not.

· If you’re playing in a team, someone WILL take the kill from you.

· Teleport can do it better and is faster at it. (this alone destroys the purpose of using it that way)

 

And just to present proof of its issues that ppl can try out right now, take Ash to Earth defence with a team and use bs and you will see what will happen to you. And just to point out (I can`t say all vids since I haven`t seen all of them) if you look up vids on Ash, from what I`ve seen you won`t find vids of Ash in a team except one and it shows his issues completely (which you can see on the post if you read on), also for entertainment`s sake you will see an example of a fool named sweatshawp on my post where no matter the proof and points I make, this person is illogical and this person is following my post refusing to leave so in the end, I had to block him (you will see me addressing it on page 11).

Edited by (PS4)Vexx757
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That all just shows far too many players don't even know how to use Ash, or how powerful he is. His Bladestorm design could be better, though... maybe work it more like Ember's new 4.

That being said, I like how one of the "most used abilities" from Helminth on that graph... is the one for recalling Companions.

Very clearly demonstrates how broken the Companion system is right now.

Edited by DrakeWurrum
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1 hour ago, DrakeWurrum said:

That all just shows far too many players don't even know how to use Ash, or how powerful he is. His Bladestorm design could be better, though... maybe work it more like Ember's new 4.

That being said, I like how one of the "most used abilities" from Helminth on that graph... is the one for recalling Companions.

Very clearly demonstrates how broken the Companion system is right now.

I'm Robosexual, so Sentinels all the way.

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20 hours ago, Els236 said:

 

It wouldn't make sense from a lore perspective (currently) to have every frame also have an Umbra variant. 

 

Nobody said anything about every warframe getting a Umbra variant, even the devs said it back then that the Umbra line would be limited.

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On 2020-09-19 at 10:58 PM, (PS4)thegarada said:

If there ever going to be another Umbra frame (or whatever it will be called), it will probably be:

1. Shield heavy frame.

2. Female, since the previous was male.

3. One of the first few frames.

It will have nothing to do with performance.

If there ever going to be one, it probably will be Mag. 

Mag main here 

I just came thinking that xD

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On 2020-09-19 at 5:11 PM, (PS4)reddragonhrcro said:

No reason why it makes no sense and plenty of people have shown interest for more Umbra frames.

do you have any idea how many years that would take DE to make all the umbra frames to catch up to all the prime frames already ? 

thats a very long time so no its a bad idea more umbra frames.

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