Marked for Nerf is a thing that happened but saryn exists.

[BRZZAFK]

2小时前 , (PS4)robotwars7 说:

nerfing Saryn doesn't solve anything.

The same logic can apply on M4D as well. Nerf this ability along cant solve anything. But nerf evey single aoe damage warframe and weapon can.Balance need to come with consistency. Community and Devs need to decide what they want. Engaging and meaningful gameplay or press for nuke combat.

[BDMblue]

13 hours ago, Hardwood said:

I'm glad that everyone hates Saryn, as long as they are distracted I will continue to nuke everything easier and harder with Mirage.

Even if they do nerf Saryn the fun police will likely come for Volt and Equinox next.

Saryn needs a nerf though. I have no problem with a frame being able to blow away every thing they see, sure great. Everything on the map 3 times over in a single cast of its 1 ability let alone her 4.... just too much.

 

I think it does not matter how broken something is it’s how fun it is for other players playing with it.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

12 minutes ago, BDMblue said:

Saryn needs a nerf though. I have no problem with a frame being able to blow away every thing they see, sure great. Everything on the map 3 times over in a single cast of its 1 ability let alone her 4.... just too much.

 

I think it does not matter how broken something is it’s how fun it is for other players playing with it.

You know she's only that way on very specific maps that let her spores spread easily, right? 

As opposed ohhhh I don't know, a weapon that works everywhere, or an ability that works anywhere there are a group of enemies. 

But sure, go ahead and keep pretending that they're all the same. 

[Traumtulpe]

27 minutes ago, BDMblue said:

Saryn needs a nerf though. I have no problem with a frame being able to blow away every thing they see, sure great. Everything on the map 3 times over in a single cast of its 1 ability let alone her 4.... just too much.

I know, right? Miasma? Totally overpowered. Nuking the whole Steel Path with one button. 75 energy for a single Viral proc, what an amazing deal. Thanks to the Helminth I now have Miasma on all of my Warframes:^{That's odd, I can't seem to find Miasma in the picture.}

[Marvelous_A]

Saryn actually is not that powerful as a nuke in normal maps though. She works wonderfully in ESO and SO, I tried to make her work the same in SP starchart but she's noticeable not as potent. 

The real nuke now is Khora which I think is tremendously underrated or rather overshadowed by Saryn and Mesa. Khora is the only true nuke in the current update IMO.

Back to the topic MfD nerf is not justified IMO. A quick internal test would have shown what it can do anyway if they were to nerf it they should have done it before the HoD update.

[0_The_F00l]

I dont particularly have a problem with Saryn,

She is Queen of a small rock , anywhere else she is still capable but with no major power than her peers.

Also not sure if "nuke" is the right term , maybe high DPS spread capability is the more accurate term.

 

But M4D was also equally niche , it needed enemies in a specific area ,

it needed a synergistic ability or strong single shot weapon and you needed to hope the enemy targeted didn't die to friendly fire before that cast.

To top it , it only killed enemies in LOS and was not self propagating.

 

So i believe the point the OP is making is not to nerf Saryn , but if Saryns existence is not a problem , M4D should also not be a problem.

The double dipping fix and crit removal was fine, but the health limit was not necessary as it changed it from niche but useable to niche and impractical.

[Hardwood]

2 hours ago, BDMblue said:

Saryn needs a nerf though. I have no problem with a frame being able to blow away every thing they see, sure great. Everything on the map 3 times over in a single cast of its 1 ability let alone her 4.... just too much.

 

I think it does not matter how broken something is it’s how fun it is for other players playing with it.

 

My point is that Mirage does more damage for longer with less upkeep. Saryn isn't actually AFK killing, you have to maintain your meter and keep the spores rolling while Mirage presses one button every minute or so.

[schilds]

Saryn falls off in aoe dps on Steel Path due to the corrosive nerf. With armour and hp both scaling enemies have (not exactly) quadratic scaling. 100% armour reduction means they are only scaling on hp, so it's linear (ok, so it's actually some kind of s-curve). Without that 100% reduction, they're still on the (not exactly) quadratic scaling, albeit at a lower rate.

That's why even warframe abilities with scaling damage don't keep up on armoured enemies. Warframe abilities have only one set of scaling which over time will lose out to enemies that have two sets of scaling.

Spores, which used to match both sets of enemy scaling with 100% armour strip *and* scaling damage, now only scale in one way, and so can't keep up. Luckily DE got in the nerf before SP, otherwise it would have been incredibly noticeable and created a huge outcry.

[Colyeses]

15 hours ago, Krankbert said:

just like they need it spelled out to that DE doesn't nerf things merely because they're popular or fun.

Except they did say they pre-nerfed a couple of subsumed abilities because they were overwhelmingly getting picked, and IIRC, they said something similar about MFD.

Don't blame the crowd, blame the messenger.

EDIT:  Doublechecked, they didn't say it about MFD, they did say it about roar, eclipse, dispensary, etc.

[Galuf]

People whinning for Saryn nerfs should really learn to play this game. Something does well in ESO and boom it's broken, it is not how things work in this game at all... There are tons of frames thay destroy your common grind places.

Saryn got rebalanced then since status 2.0 her ult has been absolutely rekt because DE nerfed viral without thinking on the implication with frame spells. It is not because saryn mediocre damage over time spread is enough to kill low level content that she is op. It is a kind of balanced frame overall.

Saryn's weaknesses:

- Low side for upfront damage

- AoE clearing fades off quite fast or needs a long and carefull ramp up wich doesn't work at all in most game mods you'd want using it

- No full armor strip, strip she performs can be done with weapons

- Ultimate places a viral stack, at her release it was dividing hps by 2 (old viral)

- 0 survivability mechanic, her decent stats make her a very decent tank for regular starchart and it kind of work in non endless SP but it's not that good

Kind of a support frame to me. And even in ESO, explo mirage(btw a frame with real damage potential) is already better as a standalone even if they work well together tbh...

[taiiat]

7 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

I really don't think Mesa qualifies as AFK-Warframe. What you are looking for is Octavia. I use Mesa quite frequently now, because she is incredibly fast. I hardly ever touch the ground for more than a second.

i prefer using Peacemaker in a very active sense as well, the Ability is still built to be very passive though.

Mallet fits such a bill too, yes. only pulled the first analogue that came to mind, definitely not an exhaustive listing.

 

1 hour ago, Galuf said:

since status 2.0 her ult has been absolutely rekt because DE nerfed viral without thinking on the implication with frame spells.

i  think you should redo your math on the difference between halving Enemy Health or making the Enemy take double Damage to Health.

i saw an opportunity to use this Comic strip and i just have to use it, sorry. it's nothing personal and i'm just having fun here.

Spoiler

 

[stormy505]

18 hours ago, taiiat said:

AFKFarming Warframe

I remember in a dev stream somewhere they reworked saryn because they didn't like players using spores on molt and going completely afk. The complaints that said saryn sucked weren't the reason she was changed. If DE changed warframes because they suck Nyx wouldn't be in her current state.

Also newer saryn is fairly active, more so then the *apparently* dominant play style back then.

[Corvid]

11 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Please tell me you didn't believe that. The ability has a demo video - in it you will see a group of identical enemies, one gets marked and shot, resulting in everything in line of sight and range falling over dead.

Actually, they just get staggered. Most of the grineer survive the blast.

[schilds]

You couldn't go afk with spores on Molt. You had to keep spamming it. I believe the complaint was that she didn't have to interact with enemies (just with Molt), and the playstyle was static. That said it was never the best way to play her in a regular mission, it was something you did with a pre-formed group who could supply energy and buffs. Spores on Molt only did the (low) base spore damage.

There were people who thought she sucked following the removal of spores on Molt because they never learned to play her any other way, but it was always the case that in regular play it was more effective to get toxin dots on enemies so when the spores popped they aoe copied/transferred them to other enemies. In fact, she had really good aoe dps prior to the current version, it's just that it took a bit of knowledge of how she worked, the right build and loadout, and more effort in missions to get there. People don't like that kind of thing, they want to be able to use any old thing (they call this "choice" and using your brain to configure a loadout with appropriate equiment being a "meta slave"). People like the current version because it's easy to get high damage output with minimal effort. Mod for max range, and done. You really don't need anything else.

The corrosive change and gradual introduction of higher level content (arbis, sp, etc.) has changed that because she's no longer in the sweet spot for survivability and though her abilities provide very nice support, you have to get out there and kill stuff yourself.

[(PSN)Yggranya]

21 hours ago, o0Despair0o said:

Why do people keep wanting to kill Saryn? Can't we even have one good, fun  frame these days?

You people are forgetting the fact that the spore+miasma nuke only really works in defense and survival. In any other mode, you don't spend more than a couple seconds in one area. You can't build up enough damage.

 

Look, the way I see it, the reason is that M4D is literally broken right from the start. Saryn is intended to be effective against hordes.

Fun? Really? I could tell you why it isn't fun for anyone and how it removes fun for EVERYONE insted, but that would be beating a dead horse that is actually an unrecognizable pile of meat at this point.

But i'm sure you are painfully aware of that, as the same peope come to defende it every time, just so they can continue AFKing in missions and get the rewards with as little effort as possible. Ugh.

You can claim that turning from a netflix video to look at the game and pressing a button is "not AFKing" but that would be pretty disingenuous.

[(PSN)drpunk-yo]

I do think there's a valid argument here regarding Saryn.

For the current Sortie, two exterminates in Void, I joined a squad with a Saryn and they just spammed Miasma through both missions wiping everything out and for the other 3 of us it was just a jog from start to finish. It made the missions incredibly dull, especially for 3 of us, and I do think that's what DE hates the most.

The thing is it's pretty dull for the Saryn player too so unless you're that way inclined then you're not gonna play that way which is probably why we don't see more of it than we do (at least I hardly ever see it). If everyone started doing it then I reckon it'd be addressed.

[Teridax68]

16 hours ago, (XB1)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Infested Mobility, Empower, and Energized Munitions are all decent if not good.

Compared to what? If you have a dead ability on your warframe, perhaps, but why equip those when you could have Roar instead?

[SneakyErvin]

The biggest problem with Saryn and the other outlier AoE frames is that DE doesnt have a unified rule when it comes to skill design. The good and balanced AoE frames abide to the LoS rules, Saryn, Frost, Volt and Enox doesnt, this is what takes those outliers into outlier territory. All DE really needs to do in order to start fixing the AoE frame problem is by simply enforing the LoS rules to these frames aswell.

Saryn and Volt may be wonky to get working with LoS since each mob would need to be checked aswell when it comes to spread or connection. It does however not mean that it is less important to do such changes.

[Tesseract7777]

3 hours ago, stormy505 said:

I remember in a dev stream somewhere they reworked saryn because they didn't like players using spores on molt and going completely afk. The complaints that said saryn sucked weren't the reason she was changed. If DE changed warframes because they suck Nyx wouldn't be in her current state.

Also newer saryn is fairly active, more so then the *apparently* dominant play style back then.

My memory is a bit fuzzy, but I know in the early, early days, Saryn scaled very poorly (like most frames back then) but Miasma was a really easy quick spam to delete trash mobs at least up through the main map and I always thought that was the reason for the first round of changes but I could be wrong. 

But yeah, considering many other frames also didn't scale back then and didn't get a rework anytime soon, I agree It wasn't so much because she sucked, it was because she had an "easy button" and I'm not sure of the timeline on the issue you are talking about, but yeah, that's the kind of thing that gets them to change stuff, not because it sucks. 

[schilds]

31 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

My memory is a bit fuzzy, but I know in the early, early days, Saryn scaled very poorly (like most frames back then) but Miasma was a really easy quick spam to delete trash mobs at least up through the main map and I always thought that was the reason for the first round of changes but I could be wrong. 

I'm pretty sure that the change he's talking about is a later one to what you're thinking. We've had

• Press 4 to win Saryn <-- what you're recalling.
• Viral spores, castable on Molt <-- Draco meta (I think it followed or was around the same time as the radial javelin draco meta)
• Viral spores, not castable on Molt <-- SO/ESO was added just after this. This was the version most people seemed to (incorrectly) believe "sucked".
• Corrosive spores, current version.

I think there were a couple more versions of them mucking around with how spores could be spread, and they were struggling to get it right, which led to the current version which has simplified things. The viral spores also transferred toxin procs, which allowed you to set up an aoe toxin nuke if you knew what you were doing, but doing it in a real mission wasn't that practical. Probably another reason why they simplified things, because most people didn't understand how it worked and couldn't make use of it.

[Tesseract7777]

11 minutes ago, schilds said:

I'm pretty sure that the change he's talking about is a later one to what you're thinking. We've had

• Press 4 to win Saryn <-- what you're recalling.
• Viral spores, castable on Molt <-- Draco meta (I think it followed or was around the same time as the radial javelin meta draco meta)
• Viral spores, not castable on Molt <-- SO/ESO was added just after this
• Corrosive spores, current version.

I think there were a couple more versions of them mucking around with how spores could be spread, and they were struggling to get it right, which led to the current version which has simplified things. The viral spores also transferred toxin procs, which allowed you to set up an aoe toxin nuke if you knew what you were doing, but doing it in a real mission wasn't that practical. Probably another reason why they simplified things, because most people didn't understand how it worked and couldn't make use of it.

Ah, yes. This sounds right. Thank you for refreshing my memory. 

Radial Javelin on Draco though... wow haven't thought about that in a while. I have a silly kind of nostalgia for those days. They were a simpler time, but there also wasn't nearly as much to do lol. 

[Galuf]

Il y a 5 heures, taiiat a dit :

i  think you should redo your math on the difference between halving Enemy Health or making the Enemy take double Damage to Health.

Yeah you're right I though it was 25% on the first stack too ^^' The frame was really different at a point with all the spreads. Also Miasma was one taping T4 exterminates early on, so I'm pretty sure something has been nerfed there too there, I wasn't paying much attention to her back then. However I used Saryn a bit in the early SP rush to speed up greener missions (people had issues killing stuff)

[Xerenova]

Actually in one of Pablo old livestream on Twitch he personally said he want to nerf Saryn. No news on it yet but in DE fashion they feed the cows full before slaughtering them.

[Traumtulpe]

5 hours ago, Corvid said:

Actually, they just get staggered. Most of the grineer survive the blast.

I guess it isn't as clear as I thought. You can clearly see some of them die (they drop loot), you can also clearly see the Grineer that is not in line of sight being unaffected, but some do indeed stand back up. There is a cut in the video that unfortunately makes it not quite obvious what happens.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, Xerenova said:

Actually in one of Pablo old livestream on Twitch he personally said he want to nerf Saryn. No news on it yet but in DE fashion they feed the cows full before slaughtering them.

 

Quote

Due to the changes with regard to how Viral Status stack, Saryn's Miasma will now only apply a single Viral Status on its initial hit rather than each time Miasma applies damage.

This change may sound scary, but you will still get that same 6 seconds of initial doubled damage, just stacking now. If you play Saryn, you know it’s rare that enemies even survive Saryn’s damage output!

That was just the last nerf that she got. Always helps when people actually look at facts instead of just spouting hyperbole. 

Again, Saryn literally only has an advantage in one very specific type of mission, one with a very high spawn density and a small map. That's why you typically only see her rocking on a few nodes across the entire game. Comparing her kit to a weapon or an ability that you can use anywhere that there's a cluster of enemies is pretty ridiculous. 

 

Seriously you guys need to lay off the youtu.be videos. They rot the brain.